No More Freeways PDX

[bigdave]

The rider is definitely not being very considerate, and should get off and walk their bike up the hill using the sidewalk. However, the driver's behind the cyclist are not being very smart. They should overtake the cyclist. Most states have laws that allow drivers to overtake on a double yellow to pass an obstruction; a slow moving cyclist would almost certainly qualify.

It was rush hour, so there were a lot of cars going in both directions. No opportunity for the cars stuck behind the cyclist to pass, and no bike lane. 

But I'm sure the bicyclist made up for it by going downhill really fast once he ran the all way stop at the top of the hill. 

[sparker]

i hate bike lanes that are painted with that green thermo.  fucks with your traction!

Why do you say that? I don't notice anything different when driving on them.

Try them wet!

Wet is not the worst thing, try them with some black ice...

.......which is a very common occurrence in PDX during late fall and winter months; when I lived up there, it on several occasions prevented me from heading home up the hill (near Taylors' Ferry and SW 35th) from downtown when Barbur, I-5, and Taylors' Ferry were all closed as impassible.  Even OR 43 on the west bank of the Willamette wasn't immune from this as well!  And watch out for the cross-river bridge decks!   

[Hurricane Rex]

The rider is definitely not being very considerate, and should get off and walk their bike up the hill using the sidewalk. However, the driver's behind the cyclist are not being very smart. They should overtake the cyclist. Most states have laws that allow drivers to overtake on a double yellow to pass an obstruction; a slow moving cyclist would almost certainly qualify.

Driving around here in Seattle, I come across cyclists in the road all the time. They are usually travelling below the limit, so I usually pass them. I'm happy because they aren't slowing me down, and they're happy because I'm not on their ass, threatening to kill them should they accidentally crash.

Is it a law in the PNW states to ban bike riding on sidewalks? If it isn't it should be for pedestrian safety. Plus we have spent a lot of money on bike lines so why don't we utilize them?

[Sub-Urbanite]

Is it a law in the PNW states to ban bike riding on sidewalks? If it isn't it should be for pedestrian safety. Plus we have spent a lot of money on bike lines so why don't we utilize them?

In Portland, bikes are only banned on sidewalks downtown. Given that there are still a ton of major streets with no bike lanes, this makes sense.

[kalvado]

Is it a law in the PNW states to ban bike riding on sidewalks? If it isn't it should be for pedestrian safety. Plus we have spent a lot of money on bike lines so why don't we utilize them?

In Portland, bikes are only banned on sidewalks downtown. Given that there are still a ton of major streets with no bike lanes, this makes sense.

The way I see the problem, bikes do not mix well with pedestrian traffic. In case sidewalk is mostly empty, riding there is probably OK (technically, not talking about legalities).

[jakeroot]

Is it a law in the PNW states to ban bike riding on sidewalks? If it isn't it should be for pedestrian safety. Plus we have spent a lot of money on bike lines so why don't we utilize them?

Washington State definitely doesn't have any laws on the books that dictate where cyclists should ride, but some cities do. The downtown core of the city I live in is a "wheels up" area, so cycling is only allowed on the street. But I see people ride on the sidewalks all the time in most cities that I drive in. Seattle doesn't have a law, but the cyclists there generally use the streets.

The rider is definitely not being very considerate, and should get off and walk their bike up the hill using the sidewalk. However, the driver's behind the cyclist are not being very smart. They should overtake the cyclist. Most states have laws that allow drivers to overtake on a double yellow to pass an obstruction; a slow moving cyclist would almost certainly qualify.

It was rush hour, so there were a lot of cars going in both directions. No opportunity for the cars stuck behind the cyclist to pass, and no bike lane. 

Damn.

[Bickendan]

I'd like to see bike lanes segregated from both vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Ideally, the cross-section would be sidewalk, post barriers, bike lane, curb, street parking, vehicle lanes of travel, median, then the reverse.

[jakeroot]

I'd like to see bike lanes segregated from both vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Ideally, the cross-section would be sidewalk, post barriers, bike lane, curb, street parking, vehicle lanes of travel, median, then the reverse.

Agreed. On-street bike lanes are a good middle-ground, but they don't really achieve anything spectacular. They allow drivers to get dangerously close to cyclists, and they often start and end at random, whenever there's an intersection, slip lane, roundabout, etc.

I think the Netherlands does it right (doubt I'm the first one to say that). All bike facilities are segregated, except for those on neighborhood streets, where low speeds don't present much of a danger to the mixed traffic.

[US 89]

I'd like to see bike lanes segregated from both vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Ideally, the cross-section would be sidewalk, post barriers, bike lane, curb, street parking, vehicle lanes of travel, median, then the reverse.

Something like this or this?

This has been done on most of 300 South and 200 West in Salt Lake City (and the second link above is the intersection of those two streets). The problem with having the curbs separating the bike lanes from the road was that they violated the fire code, since fire trucks could not pull up right next to the buildings.

[jakeroot]

The problem with having the curbs separating the bike lanes from the road was that they violated the fire code, since fire trucks could not pull up right next to the buildings.

Curbs used in this instance are usually mountable, so that fire trucks can reach the edge of the roadway. With setups such as this (with planters), fire trucks would stop/park in the right turn lane, as that's effectively the right edge of the roadway.

It's common in the Netherlands for the emergency services to drive up the bike paths. I'm sure American fire trucks would do the same if necessary.

[Bickendan]

Taking this thread back in the vein of the original post, the Portland Tribune published seven options ODOT is considering for tolling I-5 and/or I-205:
https://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/380765-268232-odot-looks-at-seven-toll-scenarios

[sparker]

Taking this thread back in the vein of the original post, the Portland Tribune published seven options ODOT is considering for tolling I-5 and/or I-205:
https://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/380765-268232-odot-looks-at-seven-toll-scenarios

If presented to the public, options #1, #5, and #6 would likely not see the light of day; the outcry from virtually everyone outside PDX Metro would be overwhelming.  Option #2 would also be looked at with something of a jaundiced eye as well.  That leaves new construction of toll lanes as the salable method; the more drastic tolling options will be seen as gratuitous at best and punitive at worst, except in very particular urban circles (including those who have influence within PDX Metro, but not much pull elsewhere).

[jakeroot]

WSDOT gets grief from drivers after building entirely new toll lanes. I can't even imagine the backlash if they tried to convert a GP lane to a toll lane.

[Hurricane Rex]

WSDOT gets grief from drivers after building entirely new toll lanes. I can't even imagine the backlash if they tried to convert a GP lane to a toll lane.

Vancover's congressional representative proposed to the tools as it would not benefit Clark county drivers a bunch. Don't see it being too popular with Portland either with any option. its either a no or another no the way these citizens work

[sparker]

I'm just surprised they didn't propose toll lanes for 217 and the inner (tunnel) portion of US 26 as well -- just the interstates!  To some degree it looks like some circles within ODOT are looking to Make A Statement!

[sp_redelectric]

I'm just surprised they didn't propose toll lanes for 217 and the inner (tunnel) portion of US 26 as well

It'd make far more sense to toll those freeways which have a MAX line running alongside them - U.S. 26, I-84, and I-205.

Why I-84 is not being considered for tolling is beyond me, other than politics.  Same with U.S. 26, that ought to be a no-brainer.

As a Tigard resident I'm perfectly happy with 217 not being tolled, because doing so will just dump a lot more of the local Beaverton-Tigard-Tualatin traffic on local streets.  I can already imagine Oregon 99W will get a significant boost in traffic, especially from folks in Beaverton and S.W. Portland that will use local streets just to get to Wilsonville where they can jump onto I-5 toll free headed south (or, coming up from Salem, exit in Wilsonville and use "free" local streets north.)

[Hurricane Rex]

I'm just surprised they didn't propose toll lanes for 217 and the inner (tunnel) portion of US 26 as well

It'd make far more sense to toll those freeways which have a MAX line running alongside them - U.S. 26, I-84, and I-205.

Why I-84 is not being considered for tolling is beyond me, other than politics.  Same with U.S. 26, that ought to be a no-brainer.

As a Tigard resident I'm perfectly happy with 217 not being tolled, because doing so will just dump a lot more of the local Beaverton-Tigard-Tualatin traffic on local streets.  I can already imagine Oregon 99W will get a significant boost in traffic, especially from folks in Beaverton and S.W. Portland that will use local streets just to get to Wilsonville where they can jump onto I-5 toll free headed south (or, coming up from Salem, exit in Wilsonville and use "free" local streets north.)

If 217 is tolled, I'm worried a lot of that traffic will go to Roy Rodgers Road and to the congested TSR (Tualatin Sherwood Road) and 99W intersection to dodge surface street traffic to head to Wilsonville.

[sparker]

It's likely that the confinement of the toll proposals to N-S Interstates was a variant of the age-old maxim that tolls are best extracted from long-distance drivers passing through the region rather than local residents.  That's a concept that works until locals realize that they're using the target roads as much if not more than traffic originating or ending out of the area.  I'd be willing to bet that despite whining from some quarters, all-facility tolling will be one of the first items off the table when serious discussions commence.

[Hurricane Rex]

A new protest. http://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/local/rally-opposes-i-5-freeway-expansion-near-rose-quarter/283-508509459

Any thoughts?

[Plutonic Panda]

I hope they build it anyways. This needs to happen. It needs more lanes than what they are proposing, but this is better than nothing.

[AlexandriaVA]

If anything, PDX needs fewer freeway lane-miles than it presently has.

[jakeroot]

If anything, PDX needs fewer freeway lane-miles than it presently has.

I think it would be wise to add new lanes that aren't general purpose lanes. Portland's freeway network does not have enough HOV lanes.

[Plutonic Panda]

If anything, PDX needs fewer freeway lane-miles than it presently has.

Yeah that's just the thing! Forget about the horrid traffic there now! Let's just remove the roads and the problem will go away.

[AlexandriaVA]

If anything, PDX needs fewer freeway lane-miles than it presently has.

Yeah that's just the thing! Forget about the horrid traffic there now! Let's just remove the roads and the problem will go away.

How are all those freeways doing for LA?

[Plutonic Panda]

They need more lanes. But otherwise they move. Is that your argument? Cities twice the size of Portland have better traffic.