I-66 HO/T Lanes

[Roadsguy]

Always nice to discover that one of these large projects just happened to sneak in during the brief prohibition of Clearview, like the I-95/PA Turnpike connection or the PA 576 Southern Beltway, both  in Pennsylvania.

Was Clearview really prohibited everywhere? I mean, for one all these signs have been implemented after the ban was repealed, and I'm pretty sure all the regular VA street signs had carried on with using Clearview.

The interim approval for it was rescinded in 2016 before Congress made the FHWA reinstate it in 2018. It was during this period that construction began on these HO/T lanes, so while the signs are only being put up now (and probably were only recently fabricated), the plans were designed at a time when they couldn't use Clearview.

[Alps]

Always nice to discover that one of these large projects just happened to sneak in during the brief prohibition of Clearview, like the I-95/PA Turnpike connection or the PA 576 Southern Beltway, both  in Pennsylvania.

Was Clearview really prohibited everywhere? I mean, for one all these signs have been implemented after the ban was repealed, and I'm pretty sure all the regular VA street signs had carried on with using Clearview.

The interim approval for it was rescinded in 2016 before Congress made the FHWA reinstate it in 2018. It was during this period that construction began on these HO/T lanes, so while the signs are only being put up now (and probably were only recently fabricated), the plans were designed at a time when they couldn't use Clearview.

before *Texas made Congress make the FHWA...

[MillTheRoadgeek]

Always nice to discover that one of these large projects just happened to sneak in during the brief prohibition of Clearview, like the I-95/PA Turnpike connection or the PA 576 Southern Beltway, both  in Pennsylvania.

Was Clearview really prohibited everywhere? I mean, for one all these signs have been implemented after the ban was repealed, and I'm pretty sure all the regular VA street signs had carried on with using Clearview.

The interim approval for it was rescinded in 2016 before Congress made the FHWA reinstate it in 2018. It was during this period that construction began on these HO/T lanes, so while the signs are only being put up now (and probably were only recently fabricated), the plans were designed at a time when they couldn't use Clearview.

Now it is strange to see that they would set and keep to any signage plans made in advance. Do you expect other recent road projects in Clearview states to have Highway Gothic for a time? I do know that around 2016 is when mast arm signs (mostly counties) dabbled back in to HG but I would swear Clearview was still concurrent.

[bluecountry]

Ok so I drove 66 from Gainesville to Fairfax this weekend:

-The HOT lanes ARE open already in this stretch, and I gotta say, as an early proponent, they SUCK.
People in PWC/NOVA who aren't aware of the nuances of planning will be even more upset.
There are only 3 free lanes, with 2 extra HOT lanes, and just the plastic flex poles separating the two.
To me, there is less space than before; it is one thing to see the project on a board but another in person, and people will be pissed.

I only hope the FFX portion is better, but my worst fears I think are true that as well, it will seem narrower than before.
This is not like the beltway HOT lanes, they made the free lanes WORSE.
Thumbs down.

[74/171FAN]

I think that giving this project a thumbs down based on weekend traffic and not rush hour traffic is a bit misguided.

However, I think it was already clear that it would be 3 free and 2 HOT from conception. 

[Mapmikey]

Ok so I drove 66 from Gainesville to Fairfax this weekend:

-The HOT lanes ARE open already in this stretch, and I gotta say, as an early proponent, they SUCK.
People in PWC/NOVA who aren't aware of the nuances of planning will be even more upset.
There are only 3 free lanes, with 2 extra HOT lanes, and just the plastic flex poles separating the two.
To me, there is less space than before; it is one thing to see the project on a board but another in person, and people will be pissed.

I only hope the FFX portion is better, but my worst fears I think are true that as well, it will seem narrower than before.
This is not like the beltway HOT lanes, they made the free lanes WORSE.
Thumbs down.

The configuration out there before the project was 3 lanes plus an HOV lane.

Not sure how the beltway setup is much different...plastic pole separators are there for most of it.

[MillTheRoadgeek]

The configuration out there before the project was 3 lanes plus an HOV lane.

Not sure how the beltway setup is much different...plastic pole separators are there for most of it.

First I would like to note, via bluecountry that this is just a free separation of the HOV lanes... it's likely to close for all the HOT stuff to open next weekend.

Also about Fairfax, you do know that 66 had only two standard lanes outside of rush hour when the shoulder would open for traffic. So it is a plus to have three permanent lanes from 495 to 50, and a consistent shoulder to boot.

[1995hoo]

Right. HO/T operations have not yet begun. There are a bunch of closures scheduled for this week (today excepted due to the holiday) to allow for final paving and other work. They're still saying next weekend for HO/T operations.

I wonder what the speed limit will be on this first segment. There had been some reports that there is to be a 70-mph speed limit for these HO/T lanes when they're done, but I haven't heard whether they might post a lower limit as an interim measure pending completion of the Centreville-to-Beltway portion. 


Edited to add: The thing I think WILL surprise some people is that trucks, including tractor-trailers, are to be allowed in the I-66 HO/T lanes according to transform66.org. That's unlike any of the other HO/T lanes in Northern Virginia.

[davewiecking]

The thing I think WILL surprise some people is that trucks, including tractor-trailers, are to be allowed in the I-66 HO/T lanes according to transform66.org. That's unlike any of the other HO/T lanes in Northern Virginia.

That is surprising. I hope the signs at the Beltway make it clear that trucks must exit into the GP lanes, period.

[MillTheRoadgeek]

Right. HO/T operations have not yet begun. There are a bunch of closures scheduled for this week (today excepted due to the holiday) to allow for final paving and other work. They're still saying next weekend for HO/T operations.

I wonder what the speed limit will be on this first segment. There had been some reports that there is to be a 70-mph speed limit for these HO/T lanes when they're done, but I haven't heard whether they might post a lower limit as an interim measure pending completion of the Centreville-to-Beltway portion. 


Edited to add: The thing I think WILL surprise some people is that trucks, including tractor-trailers, are to be allowed in the I-66 HO/T lanes according to transform66.org. That's unlike any of the other HO/T lanes in Northern Virginia.

I do hope so, 55 seems quite slow for a rather straightaway highway. I'm sure there will be a trial period for the speed limit as the 95/395 HOV, 495 HOT and ICC have all had their speed limits increased at some point.

I hope the 18-wheelers don't tear it up. I mean, I have seen some rather sharp ramps according to the plans.

[bluecountry]

I think that giving this project a thumbs down based on weekend traffic and not rush hour traffic is a bit misguided.

However, I think it was already clear that it would be 3 free and 2 HOT from conception.

Oh I knew this, I was a TP at PWC when this began!
It's just until you see it in person, you don't realize how terrible it really is going to be for traffic.

Ok so I drove 66 from Gainesville to Fairfax this weekend:

-The HOT lanes ARE open already in this stretch, and I gotta say, as an early proponent, they SUCK.
People in PWC/NOVA who aren't aware of the nuances of planning will be even more upset.
There are only 3 free lanes, with 2 extra HOT lanes, and just the plastic flex poles separating the two.
To me, there is less space than before; it is one thing to see the project on a board but another in person, and people will be pissed.

I only hope the FFX portion is better, but my worst fears I think are true that as well, it will seem narrower than before.
This is not like the beltway HOT lanes, they made the free lanes WORSE.
Thumbs down.

The configuration out there before the project was 3 lanes plus an HOV lane.

Not sure how the beltway setup is much different...plastic pole separators are there for most of it.

The beltway kept the 4 free lanes and although parts have the plastic pole separators, even then the ROW, shoulder, and spacing integrity was not worsened vs. pre construction.

I feel that I-66, it feels smaller, more cramped, less of a shoulder space, with a lower design speed.

[bluecountry]

The configuration out there before the project was 3 lanes plus an HOV lane.

Not sure how the beltway setup is much different...plastic pole separators are there for most of it.

First I would like to note, via bluecountry that this is just a free separation of the HOV lanes... it's likely to close for all the HOT stuff to open next weekend.

Also about Fairfax, you do know that 66 had only two standard lanes outside of rush hour when the shoulder would open for traffic. So it is a plus to have three permanent lanes from 495 to 50, and a consistent shoulder to boot.

That's not quite accurate.
Yes, at rush hour, 66 inside 50 had 3 free lanes w/shoulder.  However, there were times outside peak where you had 4 free lanes with shoulder.  In any case, this part of 66 will be improved.

However, the western part of the project is worse.  For 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week, you had 3 free and 1 HOV lane.  The other 148 hours a week, you had 4 free lanes.
Now, 24/7, you have 3 free lanes, and IMO, the design speed seems lower.
Thumbs down.

Right. HO/T operations have not yet begun. There are a bunch of closures scheduled for this week (today excepted due to the holiday) to allow for final paving and other work. They're still saying next weekend for HO/T operations.

I wonder what the speed limit will be on this first segment. There had been some reports that there is to be a 70-mph speed limit for these HO/T lanes when they're done, but I haven't heard whether they might post a lower limit as an interim measure pending completion of the Centreville-to-Beltway portion. 


Edited to add: The thing I think WILL surprise some people is that trucks, including tractor-trailers, are to be allowed in the I-66 HO/T lanes according to transform66.org. That's unlike any of the other HO/T lanes in Northern Virginia.

You can thank the private contractor for that provision.
I also think the inland port in Strasburg was influential.
That said I don't see too many trucks using this, since DC doesn't have a major port.
For that, trucks will use 81 to 70 to Baltimore.

[davewiecking]

But cars with trailers are prohibited. https://twitter.com/johnaaronwtop/status/1568168465717989377

[1995hoo]

Today's Post reports that the speed limit in the newly-opened segment on I-66 is 70 mph and that there will be no tolls for the first couple of weeks. Also, interestingly, even outside the Beltway drivers will be eligible for the free ride with only one passenger until the rest of the project opens.

[1995hoo]

I see some pictures online of some of the newly-uncovered signage on I-66. "Higher Tolls for Larger Vehicles" doesn't exactly tell truck drivers what they will pay, although transform66.org's FAQ page says, quote, "Trucks will be tolled at a minimum of five times the regular toll rate for two-axle vehicles during peak periods, and will be tolled a minimum of three times the regular toll rate during all other times."

[davewiecking]

Just back from a drive on the newly-opened stretch of HOT lanes. Regret that my dashcam malfunctioned. Very nice ride; pylons between HOT and regular lanes the same as on other stretches in NoVa: each side is marked by 2 spaced white lines, which appear to be about 6" wide. All lanes (in the newly opened section) appeared to be standard 12' wide with decent shoulder widths (except near occasional overpasses). Indeed marked as 70mph, except near the current eastern end of the eastbound lanes which is reduced to 55 due to the impending merge into the regular lanes. Not well marked that they were free so were lightly used. Prominent "TOLL" signs were up, but on the variable signs that listed rates was the notation "No Toll". There was at least one portion where traffic slowed significantly in the regular lanes, but continued normally in the HOT lanes. Westbound, I had my cruise control set at 70, but was passed by some cars in the regular lanes. Noticed one semi-truck in the lanes westbound (also was improperly followed by a semi into the SB HOT lanes on the Beltway; it also exited onto WB 66).

Was pleased to note space left in the median (and under bridges) just after the end of Metro's Orange for a mile or 2 in case a plan develops to extend them, but that space disappeared between VA-123 and US-50. Lots of work still to do on the closer in interchanges.

[1995hoo]

Out of curiosity (since I won't get that way until next month at the earliest), were the speed limit signs regular ones or variable ones? I assume the former because there have been no mentions of variable speed limits on there that I can recall.

[MillTheRoadgeek]

Was pleased to note space left in the median (and under bridges) just after the end of Metro's Orange for a mile or 2 in case a plan develops to extend them, but that space disappeared between VA-123 and US-50. Lots of work still to do on the closer in interchanges.

Perhaps any Metro line is to move over to Fair Oaks Mall/Fairfax Corner territory? I thought there was also space under the 28 interchange.

[davewiecking]

Out of curiosity (since I won't get that way until next month at the earliest), were the speed limit signs regular ones or variable ones? I assume the former because there have been no mentions of variable speed limits on there that I can recall.

Static permanent ones. In at least one case, there was a regular sign on the right side of the regular lanes lined up with a 70 sign (with "Express Lanes"  plaque on top) on the left side of the Express lanes.

[Jmiles32]

Was pleased to note space left in the median (and under bridges) just after the end of Metro's Orange for a mile or 2 in case a plan develops to extend them, but that space disappeared between VA-123 and US-50. Lots of work still to do on the closer in interchanges.

Perhaps any Metro line is to move over to Fair Oaks Mall/Fairfax Corner territory? I thought there was also space under the 28 interchange.

As part of this project, the median of I-66 up until the US-29 interchange in Centreville will have space reserved for a future orange line extension. The exception being at Monument drive where I believe as part of deal, I-66 Express Mobility Partners would be on the hook for relocating that express lanes exit to just north of the westbound lanes (as long as the extension were to happen after 2030). Will the orange line be extended anytime soon given Metro's current problems? Doubtful and I think I-66 Express Mobility Partners bet on that. While I could potentially see the orange line going as far as Fair Oaks in the next 30 years (given the likely redevelopment of the Fair Oaks mall and ability to potentially attract commuters on US-50 before they get on I-66), the price tag for that endeavor would still likely cost around $1 billion per mile.

[bluecountry]

Let me ask is there any chance that 66 inside the beltway will get further expanded?
EB after Glebe Road it is 2 lanes, but that 'tunnel' by the NSF it goes under is clearly big enough for 3 lanes.
It really should be 3 lanes each way to Rt 110.

[froggie]

Doubtful...

A) This is Arlington.
B) ROW gets pretty tight between Sprout Run and the Rosslyn interchange.
C) Despite how wide it may seem, you'd have to narrow shoulders to a substandard level to fit it under both the Washington-Lee parking complex and through the Rosslyn tunnel.
D) This is Arlington.

[oscar]

Doubtful...

A) This is Arlington.
B) ROW gets pretty tight between Sprout Run and the Rosslyn interchange.

Not to mention the congested and space-constrained road network in D.C., east of the Rosslyn interchange, onto which a widened I-66 would dump more traffic.

VDOT went through a lot of trouble adding auxiliary lanes to I-66 through Arlington west of Glebe Rd., over the Arlington County government's fierce objections. I doubt there's interest in doing anything more.

[bluecountry]

Doubtful...

A) This is Arlington.
B) ROW gets pretty tight between Sprout Run and the Rosslyn interchange.

Not to mention the congested and space-constrained road network in D.C., east of the Rosslyn interchange, onto which a widened I-66 would dump more traffic.

VDOT went through a lot of trouble adding auxiliary lanes to I-66 through Arlington west of Glebe Rd., over the Arlington County government's fierce objections. I doubt there's interest in doing anything more.

But that viaduct/tunnel just east of Glebe Road IS wide enough...

[froggie]

Wide enough for 3 lanes.  NOT wide enough for 3 lanes and full shoulders.  VDOT already went through this when they looked at auxiliary lanes between Glebe Rd and Lee Hwy.