A lot of people here tend to agree that DOTs tend to put stupid or pointless messages on variable message signs such as "Wear Your Seat Belt" and "Thanksgiving - Expect Delays" which leads drivers to ignore them when they have something useful or important displayed. What are some of the dumbest things you've seen displayed on a VMS?
I've seen the NJ Turnpike Authority show off their new color VMSes showing something along the lines of "EZ-PASS available at next service area" even though there is a permanent sign displaying the exact same thing closer to the plaza.
A portable VMS (with dayglo flippy dots rather than LEDs) shows up at random times on Route 18 congratulating some team at their middle school for beating another team or for leaf pickup even though probably most of the people in the area where that sign shows up either are commuters passing through or Rutgers students who don't deal with leaves. However, when Chris Christie held one of his town hall events in Piscataway, that sign showed up outside the event displaying some political protest (http://www.politickernj.com/files/article/energy.jpg) against him. At first, I thought the town owned the sign but I don't think the town would be allowed to make such a statement like that (either for or against). If it is indeed privately owned, are they allowed to masquerade an official-looking device to help motorists as a form of protest? I know there's free speech but that doesn't mean I can go out and display my opinion on something looking like e.g., a regulatory sign.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 03, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
A lot of people here tend to agree that DOTs tend to put stupid or pointless messages on variable message signs such as "Wear Your Seat Belt" and "Thanksgiving - Expect Delays" which leads drivers to ignore them when they have something useful or important displayed. What are some of the dumbest things you've seen displayed on a VMS?
I-44 in Missouri has permanent signs every few miles with some sort of message like
WATCH FOR MOTORCYCLES
MODOT CARES
Or
FOR TRAVEL INFORMATION
CALL 1-800-MODOT
Some of the US and State Routes have what appear to be temporary signs that have
* usually alternating between the left and right side of the sign.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 03, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
At first, I thought the town owned the sign but I don't think the town would be allowed to make such a statement like that (either for or against). If it is indeed privately owned, are they allowed to masquerade an official-looking device to help motorists as a form of protest? I know there's free speech but that doesn't mean I can go out and display my opinion on something looking like e.g., a regulatory sign.
What about it made it look official? I'd say its existence on the planet doesn't count. If someone put it in a location where it's legal to put a sign, then there you go.
any horseshit by the department of Homeland Security. Maryland is notorious for this.
Adopt the Louisiana style for VMS signs - ALWAYS post travel times from point A to the exit. It comes in handy, especially when traffic is always delayed somewhere in the city. My commute in always has the travel time to my exit, and the signs are never turned off. But at least they display useful information. This morning had "10E to Essen - 6 MI, 42 MIN. USE 110N TO AIRLINE." Guess who found an alternate route!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 03, 2012, 09:16:00 PM
Maryland is notorious for this.
REPORT SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY. CALL 301-SQUEALER
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 03, 2012, 09:16:00 PM
any horseshit by the department of Homeland Security. Maryland is notorious for this.
Report terrorists. MDOT cares.
WisDOT usually turns them off or leaves traffic times up 24/7:
FREEWAY TIME TO
WIS 30 9 MIN
US 12/18 13 MIN
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 03, 2012, 10:26:10 PM
Adopt the Louisiana style for VMS signs - ALWAYS post travel times from point A to the exit. It comes in handy, especially when traffic is always delayed somewhere in the city. My commute in always has the travel time to my exit, and the signs are never turned off. But at least they display useful information. This morning had "10E to Essen - 6 MI, 42 MIN. USE 110N TO AIRLINE." Guess who found an alternate route!
That's what ISTHA does as well. They post the travel times, even in rural areas along I-88 and I-90 alternating with a message (typically related to the Tollway i.e. "UPDATE I-PASS INFO ONLINE").
IDOT on the other hand, posts travel times on some VMSs, but never does on others. Their VMSs on Nbd I-55 between US-6 and I-80, and between US-52 and US-30 would be better off as the messages are the inane "WATCH FOR MOTORCYCLES" or "CLICK IT OR TICKET" crap-type messages.
Then there are ones that IDOT has that I never see on, such as near Bloomington. InDOT never seems to use its either in the Calumet Region.
NDOT in the Reno area was getting bad about this, putting up the public safety messages such as "Click It or Ticket", "Buckle Up, It's The Law", or similar. Now that they're getting ITS infrastructure in place to have more active monitoring of travel conditions on the freeways, they're testing travel time information.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 03, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
A portable VMS (with dayglo flippy dots rather than LEDs) shows up at random times on Route 18 congratulating some team at their middle school for beating another team or for leaf pickup even though probably most of the people in the area where that sign shows up either are commuters passing through or Rutgers students who don't deal with leaves. However, when Chris Christie held one of his town hall events in Piscataway, that sign showed up outside the event displaying some political protest (http://www.politickernj.com/files/article/energy.jpg) against him. At first, I thought the town owned the sign but I don't think the town would be allowed to make such a statement like that (either for or against). If it is indeed privately owned, are they allowed to masquerade an official-looking device to help motorists as a form of protest? I know there's free speech but that doesn't mean I can go out and display my opinion on something looking like e.g., a regulatory sign.
A Ferranti-Packard display as a VMS? Really? I thought they all used LEDs these days. What's it look like at night?
I've seen portable VMSes in private hands before, directing people to events, and I've seen them at least once displaying some sort of commercial message. Could be sort of annoying/misleading, considering they look exactly the same as standard issue DOT VMSes.
Oklahoma DOT tends to leave its VMSes off, although sometimes you will see "OZONE ALERT IN EFFECT - SHARE A RIDE" or something like that which strikes me as odd since you aren't going to suddenly decide to carpool after driving past a VMS on I-35 at 65 mph.
FDOT loves to use the "CLICK IT OR TICKET" or some other things like travel times to an interchange that is only a mile away I have seen.
Quote from: Brandon on July 03, 2012, 11:12:16 PM
InDOT never seems to use its either in the Calumet Region.
The ones in Indy seemed to be used to warn of accidents and construction only so they are not usually on. Travel times are on dedicated signs in Indy - when they're working.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FIntchg%2FI465--CTT-69-70.jpg&hash=e2be522f8cada267927934b6ca1737a7345804c2) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FIntchg%2FI465--CTT-65-70.jpg&hash=f53b4bace416253dde5570a8927bdf8d89894549)
Kokomo even got two VMSes on US 31 (the existing non-freeway one), and are these used mainly for Amber alerts or construction warnings. In that same project that brought VMS, US 31 got the blue .2 mile enhanced mile markers. From the INDOT plans, the new freeway will neither have the VMSes nor the enhanced mile markers.
Most irrelevant message I've ever seen on a VMS - the Mass. Turnpike Authority used to post "GO PATRIOTS" on their boards in the mid-2000s when the Pats were in the playoffs.
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 03, 2012, 10:26:10 PM
Adopt the Louisiana style for VMS signs - ALWAYS post travel times from point A to the exit. It comes in handy, especially when traffic is always delayed somewhere in the city. My commute in always has the travel time to my exit, and the signs are never turned off. But at least they display useful information. This morning had "10E to Essen - 6 MI, 42 MIN. USE 110N TO AIRLINE." Guess who found an alternate route!
Then when there's a serious crash or other issue that requires posting a message that needs the driver's immediate attention, I wonder how many who drive that road everyday will just ignore the "urgent" message because they've passed those VMS panels everyday and have gotten de-sensitized because there's always a message on the panels.
Most states don't display the "nanny" or other irrelevant messages on their VMS panels 24/7/365 like travel times are usually displayed, so this "hash" is a less of a problem in states where VMSes aren't used for travel times.
Travel times are the bread and butter of Louisiana. On ALL federal routes into Baton Rouge (I-12, I-10, US 61, US 190), overhead signs are being installed for traffic advisories only. No nanny-state stuff here, just the information the drivers need to know. Also, they're located on lanes going out of the city, advising alternate routes for wrecks on key bridges, like the Basin Bridge. Plus, we have about 5,000 smaller signs saying to buckle up or not to drink and drive.
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 04, 2012, 09:20:37 PMOn ALL federal routes...
:pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan: :pan:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
So, H.B., what adjective would you use to describe Interstate and U.S. Routes?
Quote from: NE2 on July 04, 2012, 10:02:59 PM
So, H.B., what adjective would you use to describe Interstate and U.S. Routes?
I'd call them "Interstate and U.S. Routes" myself. "Federal routes" reminds me of you-know-who (that viatologist or whatever the hell he calls himself).
Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em. I'll refer to them as Interstate and U.S. Highways, since I don't have any idea what a viatologist is.
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 04, 2012, 11:50:16 PM
Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em. I'll refer to them as Interstate and U.S. Highways, since I don't have any idea what a viatologist is.
Trust me, it's much better to not know what that so-called term is anyway. :P (A certain person on m.t.r spams it with his web site about the topic, a term he coined that only he uses...it's actually quite entertaining in a way.)
I'm a signatologist, making the LaDOTD mad with my emails about using the wrong FHWA font on the signs.
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 04, 2012, 11:50:16 PM
Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em.
That's a bad reason, since feddybux go towards all National Highway System roads (which doesn't include all U.S. Routes, and includes some state highways).
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2012, 05:47:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 03, 2012, 08:50:09 PM
A portable VMS (with dayglo flippy dots rather than LEDs) shows up at random times on Route 18 <...>
A Ferranti-Packard display as a VMS? Really? I thought they all used LEDs these days. What's it look like at night?
Older portable VMS units tended to be of the flip-dot variety, with the "on" dots in the message usually being yellow or fluorescent yellow-green in color--some also include a small orange-ish LED light behind each dot that comes on with the dot is to display.
These types of VMS can be easily distinguished by the display dots slowly changing left to right between sign messages, and by the fact that inevitably certain dots in the message get stuck in the on position.
An example found on Google Images (https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRV0O3QC2btZyOtEuJxXc1NrAgAIgk85HY__hoMYghvujaJz4fm)
Quote from: NE2 on July 05, 2012, 01:39:27 AM
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 04, 2012, 11:50:16 PM
Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em.
That's a bad reason, since feddybux go towards all National Highway System roads (which doesn't include all U.S. Routes, and includes some state highways).
Not only that, but the federal bridge replacement program helps pay for replacement of substandard bridges on state routes that aren't part of the NHS.
"interstate and US routes" is clunky. I use "federal routes" to refer as a blanket term to the two route systems with numbers that intentionally remain the same while crossing state lines.
^^It seems to me that "national" would be a good adjective for this - it conveys the idea of a nationwide numbering system without implying the Federal government's behind it - except no one would know what we meant....
Most of the VMSs around here say "NO DELAY ON I-44" because of the construction.
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 04, 2012, 11:52:33 PM
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 04, 2012, 11:50:16 PM
Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em. I'll refer to them as Interstate and U.S. Highways, since I don't have any idea what a viatologist is.
Trust me, it's much better to not know what that so-called term is anyway. :P (A certain person on m.t.r spams it with his web site about the topic, a term he coined that only he uses...it's actually quite entertaining in a way.)
You're very easily amused if Carl Rogers entertains you. There have been way better trolls in MTR.
The VMSs around here aren't set up to convey severe weather warnings. I saw an article that said that ODOT was considering doing this. I think it's a great idea.
Quote from: bugo on July 05, 2012, 01:20:53 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 04, 2012, 11:52:33 PM
Quote from: mcdonaat on July 04, 2012, 11:50:16 PM
Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em. I'll refer to them as Interstate and U.S. Highways, since I don't have any idea what a viatologist is.
Trust me, it's much better to not know what that so-called term is anyway. :P (A certain person on m.t.r spams it with his web site about the topic, a term he coined that only he uses...it's actually quite entertaining in a way.)
You're very easily amused if Carl Rogers entertains you. There have been way better trolls in MTR.
Not entertaining in a truly entertaining way but entertaining in a somewhat sad, watching a train-wreck, so bad it's good way. He completely doesn't get it.
Quote from: roadman on July 04, 2012, 10:58:31 AM
Most irrelevant message I've ever seen on a VMS - the Mass. Turnpike Authority used to post "GO PATRIOTS" on their boards in the mid-2000s when the Pats were in the playoffs.
When the Steelers or Pens have been in big playoff games, the VMS's on the Parkways have shown "GO STEELERS" or "GO PENS" as well.
I'm not gonna give anyone a hard time who thinks that
shouldn't be happening.... BUT, as a Yinzer sports fan, I personally would never vote, or sign a petition, or something like that - to make them stop such practices.
Other than that, if the electric bill for these things is pretty negligible (relative to the general budget) when they're on, I have no problem with more generic messages ("Click it or Ticket", "Watch for Motocycles", etc...) being shown as opposed to it being off.... Even though there are more VMS's now than ever, they're spread out enough that people shouldn't De-facto ignore them just because their messages are sometimes mundane.
And personally, as someone posting to forums about roads/signs/etc, I'll read & notice them whether or not they're VMS, "static" BGS, [insert acronym here], or whatever, signs along the road.
Looking on fl511.com, it looks like most of the ones in Florida right now are either saying:
- BUCKLE UP / NO EXCUSES
- Travel times
- Congestion or accidents
- A silver alert
My favorite that Florida regularly uses is "DUI / DECIDE BEFORE YOU DRIVE". It doesn't actually tell you not to, just to make the decision before you actually get behind the wheel.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on July 06, 2012, 12:46:22 AM
When the Steelers or Pens have been in big playoff games, the VMS's on the Parkways have shown "GO STEELERS" or "GO PENS" as well.
I'm not gonna give anyone a hard time who thinks that shouldn't be happening.... BUT, as a Yinzer sports fan, I personally would never vote, or sign a petition, or something like that - to make them stop such practices.
Other than that, if the electric bill for these things is pretty negligible (relative to the general budget) when they're on, I have no problem with more generic messages ("Click it or Ticket", "Watch for Motocycles", etc...) being shown as opposed to it being off.... Even though there are more VMS's now than ever, they're spread out enough that people shouldn't De-facto ignore them just because their messages are sometimes mundane.
And personally, as someone posting to forums about roads/signs/etc, I'll read & notice them whether or not they're VMS, "static" BGS, [insert acronym here], or whatever, signs along the road.
Appreciate your comments, and certinally respect your opinions. The problem I have with VMS messages like "GO PATS", apart from the fact providing totally irrelevant information for the driver on the highway is yet another potential distraction, is that it is using public assets to provide advertising for private sports franchises.
We as a society are increasingly bombarded by the marketing executives at every turn. Personally, I havde to endure enough pointless and wasteful advertising in my life. Frankly, I don't want to be forced to see such messages on DOT highway signs or public transit buses and trains.
And you are correct. Current LED VMSes draw very little power, so the electric costs are minimal. And the new generation of portable signs are designed so they can run off solar power instead of a generator (like the old Wink-O-Matic bulb matrix signs of yore).
Quote from: roadman on July 06, 2012, 08:39:23 AM
Appreciate your comments, and certinally respect your opinions. The problem I have with VMS messages like "GO PATS", apart from the fact providing totally irrelevant information for the driver on the highway is yet another potential distraction, is that it is using public assets to provide advertising for private sports franchises.
Like it or not, professional sports are a large part of most cities' cultural awareness and identity. I'd argue that the signs aren't advertising for the team necessarily but rather promoting a sense of community. If they were saying "BUY PATS SEASON TICKETS / xxx-xxx-xxxx" then it would clearly be advertising, but simply saying "GO PATS" doesn't cross that line IMO.
But yes, I do agree that it's more visual clutter and unnecessary.
Quote from: realjd on July 06, 2012, 08:47:48 AM
Like it or not, professional sports are a large part of most cities' cultural awareness and identity. I'd argue that the signs aren't advertising for the team necessarily but rather promoting a sense of community. If they were saying "BUY PATS SEASON TICKETS / xxx-xxx-xxxx" then it would clearly be advertising, but simply saying "GO PATS" doesn't cross that line IMO.
But yes, I do agree that it's more visual clutter and unnecessary.
Your points are taken. However, if a DOT decides to promote a sports team on a public highway with assets the taxpayers funded, where does it stop? If a DOT establishes a policy to allow non-transportation related messages on their VMSes, does the concert at the local cultural center qualify? How about the new exhibit at the local museum or the new tigers at the zoo?
I completely understand what you're saying, but IMO you're creating a very slippery slope (and potential legal issues) for the DOT even if they have (what they think) is a very solid policy about which types of "non-tranportation" messages they allow. Remember what happened in Arkansas (or was it Texas) when a local KKK chapter took the state to court because they were denied a sponsorship for an "Adopt A Highway" sign. Went all the way to the state Supreme Court, who ultimately sided with the KKK and forced the DOT to give them a sign.
In closing, you have to be very very careful in dealing with private entities when it comes to publicity and advertising. You may give them five inches, but they will always try to get 500 miles (i.e. as much as they can). And, to use TV (both broadcast and cable) as an example, once you increase the amount of advertising, it's almost impossible to reduce it in the future.
Quote from: roadman on July 06, 2012, 09:07:51 AM
Quote from: realjd on July 06, 2012, 08:47:48 AM
Like it or not, professional sports are a large part of most cities' cultural awareness and identity. I'd argue that the signs aren't advertising for the team necessarily but rather promoting a sense of community. If they were saying "BUY PATS SEASON TICKETS / xxx-xxx-xxxx" then it would clearly be advertising, but simply saying "GO PATS" doesn't cross that line IMO.
But yes, I do agree that it's more visual clutter and unnecessary.
Your points are taken. However, if a DOT decides to promote a sports team on a public highway with assets the taxpayers funded, where does it stop? If a DOT establishes a policy to allow non-transportation related messages on their VMSes, does the concert at the local cultural center qualify? How about the new exhibit at the local museum or the new tigers at the zoo?
If it draws a significant amount of traffic then yes. I, for one, see no issue with using taxpayer dollars to advertise events that may draw people to the town considering the potential revenue it may generate for the town, both in the form of economic activity and tax revenue. And unquestionably such an event would warrant mention on a VMS if it draws traffic that will need to be told where to go.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 06, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
If it draws a significant amount of traffic then yes. I, for one, see no issue with using taxpayer dollars to advertise events that may draw people to the town considering the potential revenue it may generate for the town, both in the form of economic activity and tax revenue. And unquestionably such an event would warrant mention on a VMS if it draws traffic that will need to be told where to go.
I agree with you, provided the messages are truly traffic-related. If the VMSes are in the vicinty of the stadium (or other venue), I see no problem with messages like "FOOTBALL GAME SUNDAY/EXPECT DELAYS", "ZOO EVENT NEXT WEEK", etc.. In fact, in Massachusetts there are "hybrid" signs (static panel with a VMS beneath it) on I-95 and I-495 approaching Foxborough for Gillette Stadium. Beginning six days before a home game or other event, they display "FOOTBALL", "SOCCER", or "CONCERT" with the date of the event. Because the static sign has the Gillette Stadium LOGO (MassHighway got special permission from the local FHWA office to do this), drivers immediately associate the message with the Stadium.
However, athough "GO PATS" is a simple message and, thus, won't distract most drivers, the fact remains it is not traffic-related, but just more needless advertising.
While you got 1 of my points, I think you missed the other. Its not just needless advertising that only benefits business but also can benefit the town in the form of increased economic activity and tax revenue. If the event draws people to the town, people end up spending money there, not to mention the tax revenue from tickets and other sales at the event.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 06, 2012, 09:55:37 AM
While you got 1 of my points, I think you missed the other. Its not just needless advertising that only benefits business but also can benefit the town in the form of increased economic activity and tax revenue. If the event draws people to the town, people end up spending money there, not to mention the tax revenue from tickets and other sales at the event.
With respect, the sports teams are already informing the public of the event thorough a large number of means, including not only paid advertising but through media news coverage. IMO, 99% of that is totally unnecessary and, frankly, a huge waste of money, time, and resources that can be put to far better uses.
Sorry, but sports teams that pay their players annual salaries that far exceed what I expect to make in my lifetime don't need to use publically-funded assets to get their message out to the public, most of whom probably have little if any interest in attending the event.
And, in closing, and to get slightly off-topic here, I appreciate that you are young enough so that the trend of "saturation advertising" through any and all means possible has always been a part of your life.
So, if you're willing, here's a little experiment. Not sure what type of TV shows you like, but watch an episode of a late 1960s or early 1970s show on TV Land. Then go to NetFlix or a local DVD rental store and watch that same episode on DVD. After doing that, I'm fairly confient you will begin to understand my points about advertising and how society is being increasingly overtaken by the marketing executives.
(and I'll give you a hint - that "extra" content during the episode on the DVD was not added when they created the DVD)
Want to see how often Caltrans uses its VMSes? Go to http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/ and make sure the "Message Signs" checkbox is checked. Click on any sign icon on the map to see what the sign says. As of the time I'm writing this, there are VMSes on southbound I-5 alerting motorists of road construction near the I-5/CA-58 interchange as far away as 120 miles.
Quote from: roadman on July 06, 2012, 09:07:51 AM
Remember what happened in Arkansas (or was it Texas) when a local KKK chapter took the state to court because they were denied a sponsorship for an "Adopt A Highway" sign. Went all the way to the state Supreme Court, who ultimately sided with the KKK and forced the DOT to give them a sign.
It was I-55 in Missouri, actually. MoDOT was finally able to revoke the KKK's Adopt A Highway membership when it found out that the KKK was not actually maintaining the roadside after they got the signs; the whole thing was a publicity stunt.
Quote from: roadman on July 06, 2012, 10:17:21 AM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 06, 2012, 09:55:37 AM
While you got 1 of my points, I think you missed the other. Its not just needless advertising that only benefits business but also can benefit the town in the form of increased economic activity and tax revenue. If the event draws people to the town, people end up spending money there, not to mention the tax revenue from tickets and other sales at the event.
With respect, the sports teams are already informing the public of the event thorough a large number of means, including not only paid advertising but through media news coverage. IMO, 99% of that is totally unnecessary and, frankly, a huge waste of money, time, and resources that can be put to far better uses.
Sorry, but sports teams that pay their players annual salaries that far exceed what I expect to make in my lifetime don't need to use publically-funded assets to get their message out to the public, most of whom probably have little if any interest in attending the event.
And, in closing, and to get slightly off-topic here, I appreciate that you are young enough so that the trend of "saturation advertising" through any and all means possible has always been a part of your life.
So, if you're willing, here's a little experiment. Not sure what type of TV shows you like, but watch an episode of a late 1960s or early 1970s show on TV Land. Then go to NetFlix or a local DVD rental store and watch that same episode on DVD. After doing that, I'm fairly confient you will begin to understand my points about advertising and how society is being increasingly overtaken by the marketing executives.
(and I'll give you a hint - that "extra" content during the episode on the DVD was not added when they created the DVD)
I was going more for cultural things like your own zoo and museum examples rather than sporting events, because, as already established, VMSes relating to sports are usually something along the lines of a simple "GO PATRIOTS!"...
Because while yes, to everyone who follows sports, they're pointless since they already know when and where the games are, for other things that's not so much. Cultural attractions are more subject to spontaneous visits, along the lines of "Oh, wow, the new wing of the museum's opening, we should go check it out this weekend!"
My main point here is that this isn't pure advertising like you see on billboards, TV, radio, etc., because it's not just some private company trying to sell you a product - it's a cultural institution informing you of a new reason to visit (yes, you usually have to spend money, but I'd reckon at least 90% of museums, etc. are operated either by government or a non-profit organization).
There is a difference between a VMS being used by Ford to announce a new car and a VMS being used by a museum to announce a new exhibit.
Even if we stick with sporting events, these VMSes that say things like "GO PATRIOTS" around major games are merely showing support for the team, as they are a part of the region's culture, they aren't reminding you to buy tickets or merchandise.
As for your TV experiment, I do not own a TV, and the primary reason is exactly what you're trying to illustrate to me - the excessive level of saturation of advertisements. I already recognize that there are more ads on TV now than there used to be and that as a result shows are getting cut shorter (even reruns of recent shows are frequently subjected to minor editing to squeeze in an extra minute or two of commercials - reruns of early episodes of
The Simpsons are notorious for this.
I may be younger than you, but I'm not an imbecile.
I don't like the idea of putting "GO THUNDER" on signs because not everybody in a certain area is a fan of the local sports team. And like somebody already said, it is using taxpayer money to advertise a private corporation. They should have useful traffic or weather information and be turned off when not needed. They do use electricity after all.
Quote from: bugo on July 06, 2012, 02:38:05 PM
I don't like the idea of putting "GO THUNDER" on signs because not everybody in a certain area is a fan of the local sports team. And like somebody already said, it is using taxpayer money to advertise a private corporation. They should have useful traffic or weather information and be turned off when not needed. They do use electricity after all.
Well... GO THUNDER could be a weather report... :sombrero:
It also irked me when Chicago buses said "GO BEARS" on their LED route signs. Especially when I was waiting for a bus at a stop that was served by more than one line, I really wanted to know what stinking route the bus was driving, not which football team it was rooting for.
I remember Sports Illustrated running a picture of a VMS near the Fort Pitt Tunnel in Pittsburgh during the NFL playoffs one year. It said something like,
ATTENTION BILLS FANS
TERRIBLE TOWEL ZONE
NO COMEBACKS ALLOWED
This was the week after the Bills had come back from a 32—3 deficit to beat the Houston Oilers 41—38 in overtime. The sign didn't work–the Bills beat the Steelers 24—3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.
Most of the VMSes around Portland, OR are turned off. In fact ODOT just installed a bunch of new "miniature" VMS signs on secondary highways usually near freeway interchanges...and I've yet to actually see one of them display anything.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2012, 03:42:23 PMThe sign didn't work–the Bills beat the Steelers 24—3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.
I guess they should have allowed comebacks then. *rimshot*
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 06, 2012, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2012, 03:42:23 PMThe sign didn't work–the Bills beat the Steelers 24—3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.
I guess they should have allowed comebacks then. *rimshot*
:-D POTW!
Seen on I-80 West outside of Fernley, NV earlier today:
DRIVE CAREFULLY
OUR GOAL IS
ZERO FATALITIES
Ugh...
Well, keep in mind that the public has nearly zero trust in the government.
If they see a VMS that's turned off, they assume (1) The gobernmint built this wasteful thing which they never use, or (2) It's broken and they're too incompetent to fix it. (And I suppose that flashing a message is actually useful for testing purposes. )
I appreciated what NDOT used to do with a VMS that didn't have an important message to display...a single small dot would remain lit in the bottom right corner. You could tell the sign was working, but had nothing to say.
I'll note that NDOT doesn't put up the feel-good messages all the time just to have a message up. The signs are dark more often than not if not displaying travel time info. There was a period about a year or two ago in Reno that they seemed to be cycling through a bunch of safety messages in a short time frame.
Noticed on my drive down to Fall River yesterday that all around 128 and 93 MassDOT's placed portable VMSes on the shoulder displaying travel times to various destinations (oddly enough including one on 93 for "Exit 18 - Boston" - Exit 18 is south of the tunnels, all the exits for downtown are in the low 20s).
Using portable VMSes struck me as odd since they were on highways that had permanent overhead ones, often at the same place. Most of the overhead ones were off, but a couple displayed the same stupid "Be safe / disabled vehicles / always use your / emergency / hazard lights" message they've been broadcasting for the past few months, which replaced "left lane travel / only allowed / when passing"
Quote from: roadfro on July 09, 2012, 04:03:07 AM
I appreciated what NDOT used to do with a VMS that didn't have an important message to display...a single small dot would remain lit in the bottom right corner. You could tell the sign was working, but had nothing to say.
That's the same thing PennDOT does with theirs (at least the newer ones they put around Bucks County). Generally they either have travel times or are blank (with the dot). I suggested a while ago (in a thread in a galaxy far far away) that these signs should have flashing yellow lights or something mounted to them which are *only* used when there's an actual alert on the display. Assuming this wasn't abused, it could be effective enough to snap drivers out of their haze long enough to see the message. I personally *always* look at the VMS because I want to know if there's trouble ahead (when you see TIME TO US 1 2 MI 8 MIN you know you're getting into trouble).
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 07:38:29 AM
Using portable VMSes struck me as odd since they were on highways that had permanent overhead ones, often at the same place. Most of the overhead ones were off, but a couple displayed the same stupid "Be safe / disabled vehicles / always use your / emergency / hazard lights" message they've been broadcasting for the past few months, which replaced "left lane travel / only allowed / when passing"
I've seen this elsewhere there are older VMSes. NJ also uses them in construction zones. I can only assume that in the case of non-construction zones, that it's a compatibility thing. Maybe the older signs aren't able to interface with whatever system is generating the travel times. As for construction, I think NJ uses portable EZPass readers and traffic counters in some sort of closed loop for the temporary signs.
The VMS signs in the Birmingham, AL metro area display travel times or warn about Ozone Alert days. There is also portable VMSs along I-65 at the Tennessee River bridge in both directions that says "Slippery When Wet, Reduce Speed." I'm surprised it doesn't warn of foggy conditions.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 07:38:29 AM
Noticed on my drive down to Fall River yesterday that all around 128 and 93 MassDOT's placed portable VMSes on the shoulder displaying travel times to various destinations (oddly enough including one on 93 for "Exit 18 - Boston" - Exit 18 is south of the tunnels, all the exits for downtown are in the low 20s).
Using portable VMSes struck me as odd since they were on highways that had permanent overhead ones, often at the same place. Most of the overhead ones were off, but a couple displayed the same stupid "Be safe / disabled vehicles / always use your / emergency / hazard lights" message they've been broadcasting for the past few months, which replaced "left lane travel / only allowed / when passing"
MassDOT's new I-93 travel time system is essentally the same one they used during the Medford Fast 14 bridge replacement project last summer. After that project was completed last September, the demand by drivers, communities, and local planning groups for a permanent travel time system was so great that MassDOT decided to go ahead and put in the boards full-time.
At the time of the Fast 14 project, there were no permanent VMS boards on I-93 - they are currently being installed as part of the I-93 Somerville to Wilmington and Wilmington to Methuen sign projects, so it's logical they would use portable boards in the short term. For one thing, they operate off of solar power, which the larger overhead boards can't.
Personally, I agree with deathtopumpkins that using the same type of boards found in construction zones is not necessarily a good idea. They could at least paint the VMSes for travel time a different color, or perhaps put a small sign tab indicating "TRAVEL TIMES" above the VMS display.
Quote from: flowmotion on July 09, 2012, 02:53:35 AM
Well, keep in mind that the public has nearly zero trust in the government.
If they see a VMS that's turned off, they assume (1) The gobernmint built this wasteful thing which they never use, or (2) It's broken and they're too incompetent to fix it. (And I suppose that flashing a message is actually useful for testing purposes. )
I'd be willing to bet that if you surveyed the public affairs people at various state DOTs, most of them would tell you that they get far more complaints about the "nanny" messages (for those states that display them) than they do about the VMSes being "off" most of the time.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 06, 2012, 02:34:52 PM
I was going more for cultural things like your own zoo and museum examples rather than sporting events, because, as already established, VMSes relating to sports are usually something along the lines of a simple "GO PATRIOTS!"...
Because while yes, to everyone who follows sports, they're pointless since they already know when and where the games are, for other things that's not so much. Cultural attractions are more subject to spontaneous visits, along the lines of "Oh, wow, the new wing of the museum's opening, we should go check it out this weekend!"
My main point here is that this isn't pure advertising like you see on billboards, TV, radio, etc., because it's not just some private company trying to sell you a product - it's a cultural institution informing you of a new reason to visit (yes, you usually have to spend money, but I'd reckon at least 90% of museums, etc. are operated either by government or a non-profit organization).
There is a difference between a VMS being used by Ford to announce a new car and a VMS being used by a museum to announce a new exhibit.
Even if we stick with sporting events, these VMSes that say things like "GO PATRIOTS" around major games are merely showing support for the team, as they are a part of the region's culture, they aren't reminding you to buy tickets or merchandise.
As for your TV experiment, I do not own a TV, and the primary reason is exactly what you're trying to illustrate to me - the excessive level of saturation of advertisements. I already recognize that there are more ads on TV now than there used to be and that as a result shows are getting cut shorter (even reruns of recent shows are frequently subjected to minor editing to squeeze in an extra minute or two of commercials - reruns of early episodes of The Simpsons are notorious for this.
I may be younger than you, but I'm not an imbecile.
With respect, advertising is still advertising - regardless if it's for a for-profit like Ford or a non-profit like the local museum. And I'm not sure about other states, but MassDOT has provided Attractions logo signs for local non-profit museums and venues at no cost to them.
And I apologize if you were offended by my suggestion to compare broadcast TV episodes with DVD episodes. I greatly respect the fact that you have decided not to own a TV - I have several friends who made the same decision.
For the record, I still own a TV, but rarely watch any current programming, I mostly use it to watch DVDs of older shows I grew up with or specality videos like railroading subjects (besides roadgeeking, railfanning and model railroading is my other principal hobby).
Quote from: roadfro on July 08, 2012, 03:54:14 AM
Seen on I-80 West outside of Fernley, NV earlier today:
DRIVE CAREFULLY
OUR GOAL IS
ZERO FATALITIES
Ugh...
You have to wonder if any people have had a fender-bender or ran off the shoulder because they were distracted by that message.
Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: roadfro on July 08, 2012, 03:54:14 AM
Seen on I-80 West outside of Fernley, NV earlier today:
DRIVE CAREFULLY
OUR GOAL IS
ZERO FATALITIES
Ugh...
You have to wonder if any people have had a fender-bender or ran off the shoulder because they were distracted by that message.
I would hope not. If so, they probably shouldn't have a license or ever be driving anywhere.
no. it's not their goal. highway officials know damn well that there will always be a nonzero fatality rate. one can minimize it, but the only way to achieve zero highway fatalities is to not have a highway at all.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2012, 03:42:23 PM
I remember Sports Illustrated running a picture of a VMS near the Fort Pitt Tunnel in Pittsburgh during the NFL playoffs one year. It said something like,
ATTENTION BILLS FANS
TERRIBLE TOWEL ZONE
NO COMEBACKS ALLOWED
This was the week after the Bills had come back from a 323 deficit to beat the Houston Oilers 4138 in overtime. The sign didn't workthe Bills beat the Steelers 243 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.
Actually, it looks like the sign worked pretty well. There certainly was no comeback that week.
Normally the VMSes in Colorado Springs are quiet unless there's an actual issue happening. The other day, though, one VMS got a special message for a funeral procession for a police officer killed in the line of duty:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fr-dub.us%2Fpics%2Fmatt.jpg&hash=4d5c4b7dee963efade23bbab68e667aae4300756)
That's some serious class by CDOT or Springs Traffic.
Click it or ticket or the new one I keep seeing "MOVE OVER OR SLOW DOWN FOR WORKERS, ITS THE LAW", oddly enough always on the freeways that don't have construction.
I never use to see them being used so often but within the last year I feel like they put up anything they can to make sure its being used. A lot more drive times are being put up; if not it's telling us to move over/slow down or click that shit or you'll get a ticket.
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:21:07 AM
Click it or ticket or the new one I keep seeing "MOVE OVER OR SLOW DOWN FOR WORKERS, ITS THE LAW", oddly enough always on the freeways that don't have construction.
I never use to see them being used so often but within the last year I feel like they put up anything they can to make sure its being used. A lot more drive times are being put up; if not it's telling us to move over/slow down or click that shit or you'll get a ticket.
I absolutely despise the "move over" law. I have been run off the road twice now by trucks who blindly move over without thinking that someone is passing them. Once I came within about 1/3 of a second of hitting a bridge abutment - I had managed to sufficiently accelerate to get in front of the truck and off the median in time.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2012, 12:12:25 PM
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:21:07 AM
Click it or ticket or the new one I keep seeing "MOVE OVER OR SLOW DOWN FOR WORKERS, ITS THE LAW", oddly enough always on the freeways that don't have construction.
I never use to see them being used so often but within the last year I feel like they put up anything they can to make sure its being used. A lot more drive times are being put up; if not it's telling us to move over/slow down or click that shit or you'll get a ticket.
I absolutely despise the "move over" law. I have been run off the road twice now by trucks who blindly move over without thinking that someone is passing them. Once I came within about 1/3 of a second of hitting a bridge abutment - I had managed to sufficiently accelerate to get in front of the truck and off the median in time.
Truckers seem to be the worst offenders, they just pop over with no warning. I got hung out to dry in the right lane once when they all moved over just before an emergency vehicle. The law is, move over IF SAFE, not MOVE OVER NOW HOLY FUCK