VMSes better off left off

[Michael in Philly]

^^It seems to me that "national" would be a good adjective for this - it conveys the idea of a nationwide numbering system without implying the Federal government's behind it - except no one would know what we meant....

[bugo]

Most of the VMSs around here say "NO DELAY ON I-44" because of the construction. 

[bugo]

Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em. I'll refer to them as Interstate and U.S. Highways, since I don't have any idea what a viatologist is.

Trust me, it's much better to not know what that so-called term is anyway.    (A certain person on m.t.r spams it with his web site about the topic, a term he coined that only he uses...it's actually quite entertaining in a way.)

You're very easily amused if Carl Rogers entertains you.  There have been way better trolls in MTR.

[bugo]

The VMSs around here aren't set up to convey severe weather warnings.  I saw an article that said that ODOT was considering doing this.  I think it's a great idea.

[PurdueBill]

Hahaha my bad... I refer to them as federal routes because the federal government gives us money to help upkeep em. I'll refer to them as Interstate and U.S. Highways, since I don't have any idea what a viatologist is.

Trust me, it's much better to not know what that so-called term is anyway.    (A certain person on m.t.r spams it with his web site about the topic, a term he coined that only he uses...it's actually quite entertaining in a way.)

You're very easily amused if Carl Rogers entertains you.  There have been way better trolls in MTR.

Not entertaining in a truly entertaining way but entertaining in a somewhat sad, watching a train-wreck, so bad it's good way.  He completely doesn't get it.

[Mr_Northside]

Most irrelevant message I've ever seen on a VMS - the Mass. Turnpike Authority used to post "GO PATRIOTS" on their boards in the mid-2000s when the Pats were in the playoffs.

When the Steelers or Pens have been in big playoff games, the VMS's on the Parkways have shown "GO STEELERS" or "GO PENS" as well. 

I'm not gonna give anyone a hard time who thinks that shouldn't be happening.... BUT, as a Yinzer sports fan, I personally would never vote, or sign a petition, or something like that - to make them stop such practices.

Other than that, if the electric bill for these things is pretty negligible (relative to the general budget) when they're on, I have no problem with more generic messages ("Click it or Ticket", "Watch for Motocycles", etc...) being shown as opposed to it being off....  Even though there are more VMS's now than ever, they're spread out enough that people shouldn't De-facto ignore them just because their messages are sometimes mundane.
And personally, as someone posting to forums about roads/signs/etc, I'll read & notice them whether or not they're VMS, "static" BGS,  [insert acronym here], or whatever, signs along the road.

[realjd]

Looking on fl511.com, it looks like most of the ones in Florida right now are either saying:

• BUCKLE UP / NO EXCUSES
• Travel times
• Congestion or accidents
• A silver alert

My favorite that Florida regularly uses is "DUI / DECIDE BEFORE YOU DRIVE". It doesn't actually tell you not to, just to make the decision before you actually get behind the wheel.

[roadman]

When the Steelers or Pens have been in big playoff games, the VMS's on the Parkways have shown "GO STEELERS" or "GO PENS" as well. 

I'm not gonna give anyone a hard time who thinks that shouldn't be happening.... BUT, as a Yinzer sports fan, I personally would never vote, or sign a petition, or something like that - to make them stop such practices.

Other than that, if the electric bill for these things is pretty negligible (relative to the general budget) when they're on, I have no problem with more generic messages ("Click it or Ticket", "Watch for Motocycles", etc...) being shown as opposed to it being off....  Even though there are more VMS's now than ever, they're spread out enough that people shouldn't De-facto ignore them just because their messages are sometimes mundane.
And personally, as someone posting to forums about roads/signs/etc, I'll read & notice them whether or not they're VMS, "static" BGS,  [insert acronym here], or whatever, signs along the road.

Appreciate your comments, and certinally respect your opinions.  The problem I have with VMS messages like "GO PATS", apart from the fact providing totally irrelevant information for the driver on the highway is yet another potential distraction, is that it is using public assets to provide advertising for private sports franchises.

We as a society are increasingly bombarded by the marketing executives at every turn.  Personally, I havde to endure enough pointless and wasteful advertising in my life.  Frankly, I don't want to be forced to see such messages on DOT highway signs or public transit buses and trains.

And you are correct.  Current LED VMSes draw very little power, so the electric costs are minimal.  And the new generation of portable signs are designed so they can run off solar power instead of a generator (like the old Wink-O-Matic bulb matrix signs of yore).

[realjd]

Appreciate your comments, and certinally respect your opinions.  The problem I have with VMS messages like "GO PATS", apart from the fact providing totally irrelevant information for the driver on the highway is yet another potential distraction, is that it is using public assets to provide advertising for private sports franchises.

Like it or not, professional sports are a large part of most cities' cultural awareness and identity. I'd argue that the signs aren't advertising for the team necessarily but rather promoting a sense of community. If they were saying "BUY PATS SEASON TICKETS / xxx-xxx-xxxx" then it would clearly be advertising, but simply saying "GO PATS" doesn't cross that line IMO.

But yes, I do agree that it's more visual clutter and unnecessary.

[roadman]

Like it or not, professional sports are a large part of most cities' cultural awareness and identity. I'd argue that the signs aren't advertising for the team necessarily but rather promoting a sense of community. If they were saying "BUY PATS SEASON TICKETS / xxx-xxx-xxxx" then it would clearly be advertising, but simply saying "GO PATS" doesn't cross that line IMO.

But yes, I do agree that it's more visual clutter and unnecessary.

Your points are taken. However, if a DOT decides to promote a sports team on a public highway with assets the taxpayers funded, where does it stop?   If a DOT establishes a policy to allow non-transportation related messages on their VMSes, does the concert at the local cultural center qualify?  How about the new exhibit at the local museum or the new tigers at the zoo?

I completely understand what you're saying, but IMO you're creating a very slippery slope (and potential legal issues) for the DOT even if they have (what they think) is a very solid policy about which types of "non-tranportation" messages they allow.  Remember what happened in Arkansas (or was it Texas) when a local KKK chapter took the state to court because they were denied a sponsorship for an "Adopt A Highway" sign.  Went all the way to the state Supreme Court, who ultimately sided with the KKK and forced the DOT to give them a sign.

In closing, you have to be very very careful in dealing with private entities when it comes to publicity and advertising.  You may give them five inches, but they will always try to get 500 miles (i.e. as much as they can).  And, to use TV (both broadcast and cable) as an example, once you increase the amount of advertising, it's almost impossible to reduce it in the future.

[deathtopumpkins]

Like it or not, professional sports are a large part of most cities' cultural awareness and identity. I'd argue that the signs aren't advertising for the team necessarily but rather promoting a sense of community. If they were saying "BUY PATS SEASON TICKETS / xxx-xxx-xxxx" then it would clearly be advertising, but simply saying "GO PATS" doesn't cross that line IMO.

But yes, I do agree that it's more visual clutter and unnecessary.

Your points are taken. However, if a DOT decides to promote a sports team on a public highway with assets the taxpayers funded, where does it stop?   If a DOT establishes a policy to allow non-transportation related messages on their VMSes, does the concert at the local cultural center qualify?  How about the new exhibit at the local museum or the new tigers at the zoo?

If it draws a significant amount of traffic then yes. I, for one, see no issue with using taxpayer dollars to advertise events that may draw people to the town considering the potential revenue it may generate for the town, both in the form of economic activity and tax revenue. And unquestionably such an event would warrant mention on a VMS if it draws traffic that will need to be told where to go.

[roadman]

If it draws a significant amount of traffic then yes. I, for one, see no issue with using taxpayer dollars to advertise events that may draw people to the town considering the potential revenue it may generate for the town, both in the form of economic activity and tax revenue. And unquestionably such an event would warrant mention on a VMS if it draws traffic that will need to be told where to go.

I agree with you, provided the messages are truly traffic-related.  If the VMSes are in the vicinty of the stadium (or other venue), I see no problem with messages like "FOOTBALL GAME SUNDAY/EXPECT DELAYS", "ZOO EVENT NEXT WEEK", etc..  In fact, in Massachusetts there are "hybrid" signs (static panel with a VMS beneath it) on I-95 and I-495 approaching Foxborough for Gillette Stadium.  Beginning six days before a home game or other event, they display "FOOTBALL", "SOCCER", or "CONCERT" with the date of the event.  Because the static sign has the Gillette Stadium LOGO (MassHighway got special permission from the local FHWA office to do this), drivers immediately associate the message with the Stadium.

However, athough "GO PATS" is a simple message and, thus, won't distract most drivers, the fact remains it is not traffic-related, but just more needless advertising.

[deathtopumpkins]

While you got 1 of my points, I think you missed the other. Its not just needless advertising that only benefits business but also can benefit the town in the form of increased economic activity and tax revenue. If the event draws people to the town, people end up spending money there, not to mention the tax revenue from tickets and other sales at the event.

[roadman]

While you got 1 of my points, I think you missed the other. Its not just needless advertising that only benefits business but also can benefit the town in the form of increased economic activity and tax revenue. If the event draws people to the town, people end up spending money there, not to mention the tax revenue from tickets and other sales at the event.

With respect, the sports teams are already informing the public of the event thorough a large number of means, including not only paid advertising but through media news coverage.  IMO, 99% of that is totally unnecessary and, frankly, a huge waste of money, time, and resources that can be put to far better uses.


Sorry, but sports teams that pay their players annual salaries that far exceed what I expect to make in my lifetime don't need to use publically-funded assets to get their message out to the public, most of whom probably have little if any interest in attending the event.

And, in closing, and to get slightly off-topic here, I appreciate that you are young enough so that the trend of "saturation advertising" through any and all means possible has always been a part of your life.

So, if you're willing, here's a little experiment.  Not sure what type of TV shows you like, but watch an episode of a late 1960s or early 1970s show on TV Land.  Then go to NetFlix or a local DVD rental store and watch that same episode on DVD.  After doing that, I'm fairly confient you will begin to understand my points about advertising and how society is being increasingly overtaken by the marketing executives.

(and I'll give you a hint - that "extra" content during the episode on the DVD was not added when they created the DVD)

[myosh_tino]

Want to see how often Caltrans uses its VMSes? Go to http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/ and make sure the "Message Signs" checkbox is checked.  Click on any sign icon on the map to see what the sign says.  As of the time I'm writing this, there are VMSes on southbound I-5 alerting motorists of road construction near the I-5/CA-58 interchange as far away as 120 miles.

[Scott5114]

Remember what happened in Arkansas (or was it Texas) when a local KKK chapter took the state to court because they were denied a sponsorship for an "Adopt A Highway" sign.  Went all the way to the state Supreme Court, who ultimately sided with the KKK and forced the DOT to give them a sign.

It was I-55 in Missouri, actually. MoDOT was finally able to revoke the KKK's Adopt A Highway membership when it found out that the KKK was not actually maintaining the roadside after they got the signs; the whole thing was a publicity stunt.

[deathtopumpkins]

While you got 1 of my points, I think you missed the other. Its not just needless advertising that only benefits business but also can benefit the town in the form of increased economic activity and tax revenue. If the event draws people to the town, people end up spending money there, not to mention the tax revenue from tickets and other sales at the event.

With respect, the sports teams are already informing the public of the event thorough a large number of means, including not only paid advertising but through media news coverage.  IMO, 99% of that is totally unnecessary and, frankly, a huge waste of money, time, and resources that can be put to far better uses.


Sorry, but sports teams that pay their players annual salaries that far exceed what I expect to make in my lifetime don't need to use publically-funded assets to get their message out to the public, most of whom probably have little if any interest in attending the event.

And, in closing, and to get slightly off-topic here, I appreciate that you are young enough so that the trend of "saturation advertising" through any and all means possible has always been a part of your life.

So, if you're willing, here's a little experiment.  Not sure what type of TV shows you like, but watch an episode of a late 1960s or early 1970s show on TV Land.  Then go to NetFlix or a local DVD rental store and watch that same episode on DVD.  After doing that, I'm fairly confient you will begin to understand my points about advertising and how society is being increasingly overtaken by the marketing executives.

(and I'll give you a hint - that "extra" content during the episode on the DVD was not added when they created the DVD)

I was going more for cultural things like your own zoo and museum examples rather than sporting events, because, as already established, VMSes relating to sports are usually something along the lines of a simple "GO PATRIOTS!"...
Because while yes, to everyone who follows sports, they're pointless since they already know when and where the games are, for other things that's not so much. Cultural attractions are more subject to spontaneous visits, along the lines of "Oh, wow, the new wing of the museum's opening, we should go check it out this weekend!"

My main point here is that this isn't pure advertising like you see on billboards, TV, radio, etc., because it's not just some private company trying to sell you a product - it's a cultural institution informing you of a new reason to visit (yes, you usually have to spend money, but I'd reckon at least 90% of museums, etc. are operated either by government or a non-profit organization).
There is a difference between a VMS being used by Ford to announce a new car and a VMS being used by a museum to announce a new exhibit.
Even if we stick with sporting events, these VMSes that say things like "GO PATRIOTS" around major games are merely showing support for the team, as they are a part of the region's culture, they aren't reminding you to buy tickets or merchandise.

As for your TV experiment, I do not own a TV, and the primary reason is exactly what you're trying to illustrate to me - the excessive level of saturation of advertisements. I already recognize that there are more ads on TV now than there used to be and that as a result shows are getting cut shorter (even reruns of recent shows are frequently subjected to minor editing to squeeze in an extra minute or two of commercials - reruns of early episodes of The Simpsons are notorious for this.
I may be younger than you, but I'm not an imbecile.

[bugo]

I don't like the idea of putting "GO THUNDER" on signs because not everybody in a certain area is a fan of the local sports team.  And like somebody already said, it is using taxpayer money to advertise a private corporation.  They should have useful traffic or weather information and be turned off when not needed.  They do use electricity after all.

[Compulov]

I don't like the idea of putting "GO THUNDER" on signs because not everybody in a certain area is a fan of the local sports team.  And like somebody already said, it is using taxpayer money to advertise a private corporation.  They should have useful traffic or weather information and be turned off when not needed.  They do use electricity after all.

Well... GO THUNDER could be a weather report... 

[kphoger]

It also irked me when Chicago buses said "GO BEARS" on their LED route signs.  Especially when I was waiting for a bus at a stop that was served by more than one line, I really wanted to know what stinking route the bus was driving, not which football team it was rooting for.

[1995hoo]

I remember Sports Illustrated running a picture of a VMS near the Fort Pitt Tunnel in Pittsburgh during the NFL playoffs one year. It said something like,

ATTENTION BILLS FANS
TERRIBLE TOWEL ZONE
NO COMEBACKS ALLOWED

This was the week after the Bills had come back from a 32—3 deficit to beat the Houston Oilers 41—38 in overtime. The sign didn't work–the Bills beat the Steelers 24—3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.

[sp_redelectric]

Most of the VMSes around Portland, OR are turned off.  In fact ODOT just installed a bunch of new "miniature" VMS signs on secondary highways usually near freeway interchanges...and I've yet to actually see one of them display anything.

[Kacie Jane]

The sign didn't work–the Bills beat the Steelers 24—3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.

I guess they should have allowed comebacks then.  *rimshot*

[1995hoo]

The sign didn't work–the Bills beat the Steelers 24—3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.

I guess they should have allowed comebacks then.  *rimshot*

POTW!

[roadfro]

Seen on I-80 West outside of Fernley, NV earlier today:

DRIVE CAREFULLY
OUR GOAL IS
ZERO FATALITIES

Ugh...