AARoads Forum

http://news.yahoo.com/del-closes-495-bridge-because-column-tilt-233626531.html


Unknown why the columns are tilting, but I-495 is closed over the Christina River until they figure out why. I think it's overkill to close it at the state line SB - the northern half of I-495 is still a decent route to downtown and the best access to the northern industrial area. I-95 is going to be reaaaally ugly until this gets resolved.

I think the idea is through traffic stays off 495 and doesn't get dumped somewhere.  The News Journal does clarify:

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/02/closure-start-pm/9880265/

QuoteNorthbound traffic must exit I-495 at Terminal Avenue. Southbound traffic is being diverted at the Pennsylvania line, although a lane is open to local traffic through 12th Street.

Bridge problems aren't new to this area.

http://www.wdel.com/blog/post.php?postid=545

Note that the Christina River I-495 bridge is on the "fracture critical" list!

How old is this bridge?

Quote from: Brian556 on June 02, 2014, 11:25:32 PM
How old is this bridge?

1974 according to the article. So, 40 years.

Logic would seemingly dictate this must be a foundation issue, but the question is what, exactly?

This seems rather rare. Usually the piers are deep enough to prevent this from happening. Sounds like they are not anchored in bedrock.

I seem to remember the 495 bridge was closed for about a week around 1988 due to a tanker truck rolling off the bridge and bursting into flames under it.

ixnay

From the first rush hour, here's your 7:45 traffic report: 95 SB is backed up from downtown Wilmington to Exit 2 in PA. 95 NB is backed up from the 495 split through Exit 3/DE 273 and down DE 1 toward DE 273 as well. In terms of alternates, 141 SB is ugly approaching 95, and 141 NB is backed up from DE 48 through Exit 6/DE 2. It appears that 495 SB _is_ now open north of the bridge, with E. 12th St. stopped dead from there west to US 13.

495 opened in 1974.  Less than 20 years later, the concrete roadway had to be removed and replaced due to very premature failing, which involved a massive reconstuction effort on a relatively new highway.  20 years after that and support piers are tilting.

Depending on their destination, some drivers will head over to Jersey and take 295 or the NJ Turnpike.  This particular morning, a truck fire had the Turnpike shut down between 1 & 3, so 295 had to handle a lot of diverted traffic this morning.

Now I'm wondering how this will affect me and two others when we head to Wilmington in two weeks for the Carolina League All-Star Game at Frawley Stadium? I know I-95 Exit 6 (northbound) is fairly close to the park.

Depends on what they find.  If they reopen the road within 2 weeks, then it won't affect you at all.  If it remains closed, then the worst of it would be heavier than normal traffic on 95.

DE 141 south was a bear this morning, but there wasn't the usual lane-shifting where the cattle chute comes in.  I hope that at least some of those who take 141 south to 95 north will get a clue and go into Wilmington a different way.

Port traffic from the north is being diverted to I-95 south through Wilmington, then I-295 "north" to DE 9 north.

Quote from: Alps on June 03, 2014, 07:51:28 AMIt appears that 495 SB _is_ now open north of the bridge, with E. 12th St. stopped dead from there west to US 13.

And US 13 takes local streets through Wilmington between 4th and 11th streets.  That isn't stopping some people from going that way - see http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/02/closure-start-pm/9880265/

Looks like PennDOT/DelDOT's refusal to remove may need to finally remove this City/Port of patch (over Port of) and the LOCAL & THRU TRAFFIC patches (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/pa/i-95/s.html) following the conclusion of a construction project several years ago now seems justified.

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 03, 2014, 11:15:21 AM
Looks like PennDOT/DelDOT's refusal to remove this City/Port of patch (over Port of) (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/pa/i-95/s.html) following the conclusion of a construction project several years ago now seems justified.

Except that sign's on I-495.  I hope PennDOT has it covered up by now.

Quote from: elsmere241 on June 03, 2014, 11:20:27 AMExcept that sign's on I-495.  I hope PennDOT has it covered up by now.

Oops.  Earlier post has since been corrected.

Quote from: elsmere241 on June 03, 2014, 11:20:27 AM

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 03, 2014, 11:15:21 AM
Looks like PennDOT/DelDOT's refusal to remove this City/Port of patch (over Port of) (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/pa/i-95/s.html) following the conclusion of a construction project several years ago now seems justified.

Except that sign's on I-495.  I hope PennDOT has it covered up by now.

The sign would be left as is for now.

In order to cover it up, PennDOT would need to get a piece of green sheeting and shut down 2 lanes of 95.  It's not exactly something that can be done at a moment's notice.  And what if they determined the road was safe?  Then PennDOT would have to go back, shut down 2 lanes again, and remove the greenout.

Why two lanes?  They shouldn't be doing sign work over active lanes of travel.

Hopefully they have the VMS on ahead of the split - that would suffice in a situation like this.

Emergency construction to do some road work is one thing.  To quickly change an overhead sign is more involved.  Once it's determined what needs to be done to 495, then DelDOT/PennDOT can proceed with any modifications to that sign, if necessary.

http://deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5156

Press conference at 2:00 EDT.

It'll be interesting to see how bad traffic gets coming home during rush hour tonight. As for current traffic, here's what Google is showing me:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFa21WOZ.png&hash=b98ef4801562dfc92f6b53e2eca3c4302f27459e)

Traffic is still being snarled on the Exit 2 offramp leading to DE 9 it seems.

On 95 North, there's only one permanent VMS sign in all of Delaware - between Interchanges 1 & 3.  There was one between 4 & 5 but it had been removed. 

I happened to be in Delaware yesterday, and only noticed 1 or 2 portable VMS signs with the closure.  They were on the right shoudler, so no less than one or two lanes away from the travel lanes one would need to access 495.

The message was:

495 NB                 USE
CLOSED                 I-95
EXIT 2                AS ALT

If this remains the case today, it would be extremely easy to miss those signs.  Not only would someone's eye not be focusing towards the right when they are heading pretty much to the left, but a truck or even a SUV could be in the line-of-sight, blocking the sign.

For as important of a road as I-95 is, I find the lack of those signs unfortunate.  Maybe they need to raise the tolls for the money to install new ones.  :-/

http://uglybridges.com/1077288

Time for some temporary signage?

http://delonline.us/1pDg1dD

QuoteI-495 bridge closure to last weeks, not days

Melissa Nann Burke, The News Journal 2:55 p.m. EDT June 3, 2014
Road will close in both directions between Terminal Avenue and 12th Street due to bridge problem.

The closure of Interstate 495 caused major delays for commuters Tuesday morning. DelDOT reported major delays on southbound I-95 from the Pennsylvania line to Harvey Road during the morning rush.  And it sounds like motorists should get used to that for a while. Interstate 495 is closed indefinitely while bridge inspectors investigate a problem with the concrete columns supporting the highway's span over the Christina River in Wilmington, state officials said Monday. A Delaware Department of Transportation engineer said at a Tuesday briefing that the bridge closure will be weeks, not days, as crews must work to shore up the structure.

That segment of I-495 carries an average 90,000 vehicles a day, and Tuesday's morning rush hour traffic felt the pinch.  "We had some tractor trailers going down Fourth Street," said Cpl. Mark Ivey, spokesman for Wilmington Police. "Those streets downtown are just not meant for heavy truck traffic."  Ivey said city officials are working with DelDOT to establish detours to divert particularly large vehicles around the city.  "We're expecting delays again during the evening rush," he said. "Anyone who does head into the city should expect that."

Northbound traffic must exit I-495 at Terminal Avenue. Southbound traffic is being diverted to I-95 at the Pennsylvania line, although a lane is open to local traffic through 12th Street.

Too bad the 12th Street Expressway was never constructed, at least Wilmington traffic would have had that as an option from the north.

Quote from: elsmere241 on June 03, 2014, 03:06:04 PM
Time for some temporary signage?

http://delonline.us/1pDg1dD

QuoteDuring the early 1990s, motorists endured years of disruptions along the same highway when premature cracking in roadbed concrete forced the replacement of the entire stretch of interstate.

It took two years to replace the pavement all along Interstate 495 (I have road video from then to fondly remember it...). The same process occurred with the Delaware 141 freeway roadbed, resulting in lengthy reconstruction.

The morning rush has turned I-95 north into a parking lot back to DE 273 (at least from when I drove through it this morning).
Glad my last day of school was today, I won't have to put up with this mess.

QuoteDelDOT is looking at setting up a temporary traffic signal where motorists exit I-495 northbound onto Terminal Avenue.

Someone should get a picture of this.  :-P

Should the bridge need to be rebuilt, would it still need the same navigational clearance it does now?  The Port of Wilmington is before the Interstate crossing, after all.   Anyone know how often the draw spans on US-13 and such are opened these days?  The nearby railroad swing bridge appears to stay open unless a train comes by.

QuoteToo bad the 12th Street Expressway was never constructed, at least Wilmington traffic would have had that as an option from the north.

Was this actually a proposal?  If so, when/where/how?

What did DelDOT do when I-495 was closed for reconstruction before and all traffic was diverted to I-95?  Seems like if this is going to be a multi-week closure during the summer, perhaps some temporary widening should be done.

I heard stories that I-95 was backed all the way onto I-476 in PA.  Given how bad weekend traffic can be during the summer, this will be an area to avoid.  Long distance traffic to Philly might want to consider picking up US 1 in Maryland.

Quote from: froggie on June 03, 2014, 10:01:06 PM

QuoteToo bad the 12th Street Expressway was never constructed, at least Wilmington traffic would have had that as an option from the north.

Was this actually a proposal?  If so, when/where/how?

I recalled it as the "12th Street Expressway" growing up in Wilmington. I snipped the 1982 article that outlines the 12th Street Connector from the Delaware Turnpike Scrapbook and have it here:

www.aaroads.com/forum_images/mid-atlantic/12th_st_connector.pdf

(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/mid-atlantic/12th_st_connector.jpg)

Quote from: MASTERNC on June 03, 2014, 10:26:43 PM
What did DelDOT do when I-495 was closed for reconstruction before and all traffic was diverted to I-95?  Seems like if this is going to be a multi-week closure during the summer, perhaps some temporary widening should be done.

In some areas, widening isn't possible due to limited shoulder widths. And since widening often means taking out lanes or reducing lane widths to widen a road, that would only further add to the problem, not help it. Plus, it would all need to be designed, which can take weeks at best, and I'm sure resources would be better spent on designing something for 495 at this point.

Quote
I heard stories that I-95 was backed all the way onto I-476 in PA.  Given how bad weekend traffic can be during the summer, this will be an area to avoid.  Long distance traffic to Philly might want to consider picking up US 1 in Maryland.

476 to the 95/495 split is 7 miles. I wish my commute's normal congestion was that short! Many days, 295 in NJ can be backed up for 14 miles! (Rt. 38 to 42).

There's no one answer for bypassing 495. The NJ Turnpike, 295, 95, 130, 13, 141, 202, 1, & 83 are all valid N-S routes that can be used, depending on start/end points, time of day, congestion, etc.

Google maps is showing 495 as ending at Terminal Av. and at 12th St.  Doesn't show the bridge at all.

ixnay

Sometimes, people make changes a little too quick to Google Maps.  While it doesn't show the road there (interesting find, btw), it will still give directions utilizing the closed portion of 495. 

Are the shoulders on I-95 wide enough for a 3rd lane without adding pavement width?  I ask because when the I-35W bridge collapsed, MnDOT was able to repave and shoehorn in an extra lane on I-94 (using the shoulders and narrower lanes) in less than 3 weeks.

The below grade portion of I-95 through downtown has a wide left shoulder capable of holding another lane.

After reading about this, I find it terrifying to think what might happen if it doesn't get rebuilt, like cars falling into the river below.

The biggest issue with 95 appears to be close to Exit 6 (ML King Drive), where the shoulder gets a bit narrow in an area of several accel/decel lanes and curves.  There's also constuction going on near 202 which, while getting close to completion, may have some areas that are unusable.  Shoehorning could be done - very tight in some areas - and it would eliminate nearly all accel/decel lanes and shoulder width.  Any breakdown or incident would have a huge effect on the entire highway.

Personally, if I was DelDOT, I would encourage alternate routes, including into NJ.  Because of the toll situation, DelDOT could offer some sort of toll reimbursement or toll discount thru EZ Pass to encourage the use of the detour.  (The downside is that could increase traffic on my commute...and those Delawarians seem to enjoy being LLDs, which would aggravate me even more!!!)

QuoteThe problem was discovered by crews working on an unrelated project.

That surprised me.  I was assuming this was found during a routine bridge inspection.

QuoteAccording to DelDOT, Bridge 1-813 over the Christina is a concrete deck on steel beams, built in 1974. DelDOT says it was last inspected in October 2012, and bridges of this type are inspected every two years.

So an inspection was due this year.  Would it have been in time if this was not discovered prior?  :hmmm:
I'd assume that this bridge will have to be inspected at least yearly going forward. 

QuoteDelDOT says they received a report about an anomaly with a column late Friday. An inspection crew was sent out Monday morning. Additionally, DelDOT says a notification was received from a DelDOT Equipment Operator Monday morning who noticed a shifting of the concrete barrier on the road surface.

Wow.  Something worse could have happened over the weekend if there was a backup. 

QuoteIn a worst-case scenario, such as a crash that forced traffic to back up and stall in both directions on the six-lane bridge, certain parts of it might not be able to handle the weight load within acceptable safety standards, officials said.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/news/local/south-jersey/2014/06/04/crucial-east-coast-highway-bridge-closed/9947247/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/06/02/i-495-to-close-at-6pm-at-bridge-1-813-over-christina-river/

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 04, 2014, 10:07:42 AMLLDs

Could you please elaborate?  Googling LLD yields many definitions without any of them being road or driving related.

Quote from: BrianP on June 04, 2014, 10:39:49 AM
Would it have been in time if this was not discovered prior?  :hmmm:

This quote from the Delaware Online article suggests that it would not have been in time:

QuoteDue to the increased load, "in its current position, the bridge can support its own weight; however, it is not capable of supporting a full traffic load," said Barry Roecker, deputy chief engineer for the contractor, AECOM.

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 04, 2014, 10:42:23 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 04, 2014, 10:07:42 AMLLDs

Could you please elaborate?  Googling LLD yields many definitions without any of them being road or driving related.

LLD = Left Lane Dick.

Some will use LLR (Left Lane Richard).

Quote from: Alex4897 on June 04, 2014, 10:48:04 AM

Quote from: BrianP on June 04, 2014, 10:39:49 AM
Would it have been in time if this was not discovered prior?  :hmmm:

This quote from the Delaware Online article suggests that it would not have been in time:

QuoteDue to the increased load, "in its current position, the bridge can support its own weight; however, it is not capable of supporting a full traffic load," said Barry Roecker, deputy chief engineer for the contractor, AECOM.

Reading Delaware Online's story today, they had interviewed a few people that said on Friday they felt like their driving expereience was a bit awkward on that bridge.  Now it's tough to say if these people were speaking because everyone has mentioned Friday as the day this issue was discovered, or if some sort of event occurred which caused the bridge to suddenly shift within a matter of days, rather than over a period of time.

LLD, of course, must mreter to the ubiquitous phenomenon of drivers whose answer to heavy traffic is to tailgate every car in the left lane until they move, essentially using threats of collision to make congestion part for their anointed selves.  They seem to grow on trees here.  Must be tough to have a life where whatever you need to get to is more important than everyone else's safety. 

Southbound at the I-295 split, it would help if DelDOT restriped the left shoulder between the I-295 ramp gore and the added lanes from I-495 to create a third through lane on I-95, increasing throughput by hopefully 50%±.  Since traffic, for the "indefinite future" will be greatly reduced on 495, those lanes could be reduced to one before joining I-95.  The traffic heading south out of Wilmington during peak periods is already plagued by volume under "normal" conditions.

If the "EXIT ONLY" portion of the signs on I-95 SB for I-295 were covered with "LEFT EXIT" or some other appropriate message, it would help to state this lane has become an option lane, while on I-495, construction barrels and temporary VMSes would be sufficient to handle the lane reduction.

I understand that a knee-jerk reaction to a short-term situation would be a costly endeavor, but if the closure were to last for an extended time (let the reader use his/her own judgement), loosening up the bottle-neck at this location would be very helpful.

I am not an engineer, but I noticed that these bridges use a single, wide pier with a v-shaped cap at every support point. This is a pretty standard design on dry land, especially for the likes of interchange flyover ramps.  But bridges similar to this one in places with a high water table like Florida, there are often these supplemental, stick-like columns jutting out from the sides of where the bridge pier meets the deck at about a 20° angle (to the vertical).  It would seem to me that angled supports would prevent a bridge from tilting.  Perhaps this bridge could be retrofitted as such, or, if that's not practical, (or if things are too far gone and it needs to be rebuilt altogether) any new structure should include these angled beams.

Another question I have, not just for here, but for any stretch of highway that needs to be elevated for whatever reason, is: when does it become more practical to put the highway on a viaduct, as opposed to a raised earthen berm (either with or without mechanically-stabilized earth reinforcement)?   In which case, actual bridges are limited to locations where traffic of one form or another needs to pass under.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 04, 2014, 08:19:42 AM
Sometimes, people make changes a little too quick to Google Maps.  While it doesn't show the road there (interesting find, btw), it will still give directions utilizing the closed portion of 495. 

This seems to have been fixed. I just asked it for a routing from DC to Philadelphia and it used I-95 through Wilmington and not the now-closed segment of I-495.

It's a well-intentioned gesture, but of course a lot of people on the road will be relying on their sat-navs rather than on Google Maps, so the real test will be to see how many of them can manage to do something as simple as reading the signs!

One thing i noticed due to this was the way DE and NJ handle bridge construction for simple girder spans, at least in the 1970s.

NJ 1974 Girder bridge I-295 Rancocas Creek, wider than the 495 one.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4058%2F4645432911_22fab25536.jpg&hash=ea53147d610ecb7ea7bade64ec0d6bcedfacda1b)


I-495 bridge in DE

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wjla.com%2Fcommunities%2Fdelaware-i495-bridge-ap_606.jpg&hash=56b1dd8d98bd0b5d8223389ef90ea1ba312da300)

Delaware seems to use slimmer pillars on their girder spans, would this have anything to do with why the bridge tilted, having a much narrower pier?

Pics of the VMS signage on 13 North/40 East approaching 295. Taken on Monday evening shortly after the closure of 495:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2F2374E962-492F-4041-81C0-EE356270134A.jpg&hash=674408c83ed9abb43f3d6a16a56bd2690980bed6) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/2374E962-492F-4041-81C0-EE356270134A.jpg.html)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2014-06%2F52CDEA42-66E5-4DE0-B100-0E7D8FA0DCDE.jpg&hash=c86ab4c1ead5978cb5c3e32a5394d05e5ee3edb0) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/52CDEA42-66E5-4DE0-B100-0E7D8FA0DCDE.jpg.html)

Quote from: ChezeHed81 on June 04, 2014, 02:41:38 PM
Southbound at the I-295 split, it would help if DelDOT restriped the left shoulder between the I-295 ramp gore and the added lanes from I-495 to create a third through lane on I-95, increasing throughput by hopefully 50%±.  Since traffic, for the "indefinite future" will be greatly reduced on 495, those lanes could be reduced to one before joining I-95.  The traffic heading south out of Wilmington during peak periods is already plagued by volume under "normal" conditions.

If the "EXIT ONLY" portion of the signs on I-95 SB for I-295 were covered with "LEFT EXIT" or some other appropriate message, it would help to state this lane has become an option lane, while on I-495, construction barrels and temporary VMSes would be sufficient to handle the lane reduction.

I understand that a knee-jerk reaction to a short-term situation would be a costly endeavor, but if the closure were to last for an extended time (let the reader use his/her own judgement), loosening up the bottle-neck at this location would be very helpful.

The bigger issue is the right lane exits for DE 141, leaving only 1 thru lane southbound.  I agree they should re-stripe to create a second thru lane (take one off of the I-495 merge temporarily).

Also, doesn't I-95 have a 13'6" clearance (at least going northbound - there are flashing warning signs)?  I imagine large trucks either have to detour through the city or go way out of their way.

Quote from: SteveG1988 on June 04, 2014, 05:04:21 PM
One thing i noticed due to this was the way DE and NJ handle bridge construction for simple girder spans, at least in the 1970s.

NJ 1974 Girder bridge I-295 Rancocas Creek, wider than the 495 one.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4058%2F4645432911_22fab25536.jpg&hash=ea53147d610ecb7ea7bade64ec0d6bcedfacda1b)


I-495 bridge in DE

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wjla.com%2Fcommunities%2Fdelaware-i495-bridge-ap_606.jpg&hash=56b1dd8d98bd0b5d8223389ef90ea1ba312da300)

Delaware seems to use slimmer pillars on their girder spans, would this have anything to do with why the bridge tilted, having a much narrower pier?

I was thinking similar.  In PA, most if not all single-pillar supported structures (I-95 near the airport, I-476 & SEPTA's Airport line (that crosses over I-95 near PHL)) all feature significantly wider (& rectangular) pillars.

Closer to Center City, the I-95 viaducts (built around the same time-frame as that I-495 bridge in DE) are supported by three slender pillars per section.  The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel (US 13 in VA) has 3 pillars per support section as well.

Two questions would be:

1.  Are there any other bridge structures that have the same support design as the I-495 bridge? 

2.  If so, have those experieced similar tilting?

The above could indeed be a long-term flaw with the support design.

DelawareOnline.COM: Contractor says dirt piles were placed at I-495 bridge (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/06/04/contractor-says-dirt-piles-placed-bridge/9971917/)

QuoteWILMINGTON — A Wilmington contractor said Wednesday his company previously placed mounds of dirt alongside I-495 that now are part of a state investigation into how support piers on a span over the Christina River shifted, forcing officials to close the bridge for emergency work.

Quote"Only thing I can tell you right now is I feel very badly about what happened to the bridge. I have absolutely no idea what happened," Jim Thomas, the owner of Keogh Contracting Co., said by phone Wednesday.

Quote"I'm going to cooperate 100 percent with DelDOT, and I have been since Monday when I found out about this."

QuoteEngineers for the Delaware Department of Transportation believe the mounds of dirt set alongside the leaning piers could have had a role in compacting soft soils beneath the surface. Another possibility, DelDOT says, is corrosion of the steel piling, which reaches 140 to 160 feet below the surface to anchor in bedrock.

Quote"It's too early to tell if it's a factor," Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt said of the dirt mounds. "Most of the folks who took a look at this say that something of that mass, of that height and weight, could certainly have an effect on compression. That's why we want to get the dirt out of there."

QuoteDelDOT is in the early phases of determining what caused the subsurface shifting of four pairs of 50-foot-tall bridge supports, called piers.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 05, 2014, 12:21:29 PM
DelawareOnline.COM: Contractor says dirt piles were placed at I-495 bridge (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/06/04/contractor-says-dirt-piles-placed-bridge/9971917/)

QuoteWILMINGTON – A Wilmington contractor said Wednesday his company previously placed mounds of dirt alongside I-495 that now are part of a state investigation into how support piers on a span over the Christina River shifted, forcing officials to close the bridge for emergency work.

Quote"Only thing I can tell you right now is I feel very badly about what happened to the bridge. I have absolutely no idea what happened," Jim Thomas, the owner of Keogh Contracting Co., said by phone Wednesday.

Quote"I'm going to cooperate 100 percent with DelDOT, and I have been since Monday when I found out about this."

QuoteEngineers for the Delaware Department of Transportation believe the mounds of dirt set alongside the leaning piers could have had a role in compacting soft soils beneath the surface. Another possibility, DelDOT says, is corrosion of the steel piling, which reaches 140 to 160 feet below the surface to anchor in bedrock.

Quote"It's too early to tell if it's a factor," Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt said of the dirt mounds. "Most of the folks who took a look at this say that something of that mass, of that height and weight, could certainly have an effect on compression. That's why we want to get the dirt out of there."

QuoteDelDOT is in the early phases of determining what caused the subsurface shifting of four pairs of 50-foot-tall bridge supports, called piers.

so could dirt piles really be the cause?  or is it the media finding a scapegoat?  I just find it hard to believe piles of dirt can cause a bridge to shift.

Quote from: doofy103 on June 05, 2014, 12:49:06 PM
so could dirt piles really be the cause?  or is it the media finding a scapegoat?  I just find it hard to believe piles of dirt can cause a bridge to shift.

Apparently it's a LOT of dirt.  I've heard well over 100 truckloads, and piled upwards of 2 stories high. When the tilting issue was first discovered, DelDOT immediately requested the removal of the dirt, so it's not something the media came up with a few days after the fact.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 05, 2014, 12:58:30 PM

Quote from: doofy103 on June 05, 2014, 12:49:06 PM
so could dirt piles really be the cause?  or is it the media finding a scapegoat?  I just find it hard to believe piles of dirt can cause a bridge to shift.

Apparently it's a LOT of dirt.  I've heard well over 100 truckloads, and piled upwards of 2 stories high. When the tilting issue was first discovered, DelDOT immediately requested the removal of the dirt, so it's not something the media came up with a few days after the fact.

So I assume the bridge is tilting in the direction of the dirt piles?

*puts on engineering hat*
The foundation is designed based on soil conditions, including compressibility, pressure, weak spots, etc. Putting 20 feet of soil on top of one side of the foundation will definitely compress the soil - this exact strategy is used to compress clayey soils for new highway projects in a process called "surcharging", where the dirt stays on there for a year or two before the road is built so that the soil will have gotten most of its settlement over with. In this case, all of the added weight would push the soil down, thus pushing the foundation down, thus causing the column to tilt.
How to fix? That's tough. The soil will not uncompress itself. One solution is to try to pipe something under there - I was recently introduced to a foam product, but it wouldn't stand up to the loads of the foundation. Some sort of expanding and fast-setting grout type substance might work to boost the foundation back up where it started, as long as that substance won't compress over the next 50 years.
Another solution is to provide additional bracing from the side. With the right heavy equipment, the bridge can be lifted from the sunken columns onto newly designed columns, and straightened in situ. This is how the Central Artery was kept open in Boston during the Big Dig, and is the most likely scenario to be implemented in this case.
All of the news article commenters and anyone here who thinks a pile of dirt can't do this - you're wrong. It absolutely can. Put away your conspiracy theories.
*hat off*

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
*puts on engineering hat*
...............
All of the news article commenters and anyone here who thinks a pile of dirt can't do this - you're wrong. It absolutely can. Put away your conspiracy theories.
*hat off*

I shudder reading comments on articles like these.  The "top commenter" crowd is often the absolute worst.  They achieve Top Commenter by quantity and not quality, obviously.

Most news articles do not need commenting enabled because there isn't all that much to really discuss.  So the comments take no time to degenerate into "Blame Obama, Blame Bush, blame whoever" drivel.  I'm surprised that sources like CNN haven't disabled comments for good.  Although they probably want to keep getting the page views from the commenters at least.

Arguing anything like explaining the engineering, surcharging, etc. to that crowd does no good.  All they do is turn on the one who knows what they're talking about and ridicules them, belittles, them, incorrectly "corrects" them, etc.  They aren't worth engaging in any discussion with.  I wonder what they are like in real life......

Alps, FWIW "Puck" at http://www.delawareliberal.net/2014/06/05/delawares-i-495-closing-brings-attention-to-state-infrastructure/#comments suggested...

QuoteIt's simple — we just need to dump an enormous pile of dirt on the other side of the bridge until the piers level out.

I assume he was being tongue in cheek.

ixnay

Quote from: ixnay on June 05, 2014, 09:29:13 PM
Alps, FWIW "Puck" at http://www.delawareliberal.net/2014/06/05/delawares-i-495-closing-brings-attention-to-state-infrastructure/#comments suggested...

QuoteIt's simple — we just need to dump an enormous pile of dirt on the other side of the bridge until the piers level out.

I assume he was being tongue in cheek.

ixnay

It could work... but would then destabilize the piers on the other side. Plus now the whole bridge would have settled, requiring a whole new set of analyses.

Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 09:17:16 PM

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
*puts on engineering hat*
...............
All of the news article commenters and anyone here who thinks a pile of dirt can't do this - you're wrong. It absolutely can. Put away your conspiracy theories.
*hat off*

Arguing anything like explaining the engineering, surcharging, etc. to that crowd does no good.  All they do is turn on the one who knows what they're talking about and ridicules them, belittles, them, incorrectly "corrects" them, etc.  They aren't worth engaging in any discussion with.  I wonder what they are like in real life......

All of the top votes in the article I read - 6 up 0 down, etc. - were for the people who said "the media is covering this up! there's no way a pile of dirt can do this!" The hidden comment - 3 up 20 down, roughly - was the one person who actually said "I'm an engineer, and this is totally possible." I would have wept, but I mostly read article comments to laugh at how stupid people are. Fortunately, the DOT doesn't make decisions based on article commenters.

Are the piles of dirt in the I-495 photo the ones in question?

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
*puts on engineering hat*

Thank you.

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
The foundation is designed based on soil conditions, including compressibility, pressure, weak spots, etc. Putting 20 feet of soil on top of one side of the foundation will definitely compress the soil - this exact strategy is used to compress clayey soils for new highway projects in a process called "surcharging", where the dirt stays on there for a year or two before the road is built so that the soil will have gotten most of its settlement over with. In this case, all of the added weight would push the soil down, thus pushing the foundation down, thus causing the column to tilt.
How to fix? That's tough. The soil will not uncompress itself. One solution is to try to pipe something under there - I was recently introduced to a foam product, but it wouldn't stand up to the loads of the foundation. Some sort of expanding and fast-setting grout type substance might work to boost the foundation back up where it started, as long as that substance won't compress over the next 50 years.

Do you think that would "straighten" the piers - or are you suggesting that they be shored-up and left leaning (slightly)?

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
Another solution is to provide additional bracing from the side. With the right heavy equipment, the bridge can be lifted from the sunken columns onto newly designed columns, and straightened in situ. This is how the Central Artery was kept open in Boston during the Big Dig, and is the most likely scenario to be implemented in this case.
All of the news article commenters and anyone here who thinks a pile of dirt can't do this - you're wrong. It absolutely can.

I heard it explained elsewhere that the soil under the bridge is something like a big mattress, and when something heavy (as in the dirt) is put on the edge of that mattress, then the entire mattress will tend to deform to some extent, not just the place where the "new" weight was added.

Would it be possible to remediate the problem by holding the bridge up with something temporary (as in your Central Artery example above), and then demolishing and rebuilding the "leaning" piers?

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
Put away your conspiracy theories.*hat off*

Agreed!

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 05, 2014, 11:55:22 PM

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
How to fix? That's tough. The soil will not uncompress itself. One solution is to try to pipe something under there - I was recently introduced to a foam product, but it wouldn't stand up to the loads of the foundation. Some sort of expanding and fast-setting grout type substance might work to boost the foundation back up where it started, as long as that substance won't compress over the next 50 years.

Do you think that would "straighten" the piers - or are you suggesting that they be shored-up and left leaning (slightly)?

The idea would be to raise the foundations back to where they started, which should correct the lean. The columns would have to be temporarily shored during this time. I don't think it's feasible, though.

Quote

Quote from: Alps on June 05, 2014, 08:23:09 PM
Another solution is to provide additional bracing from the side. With the right heavy equipment, the bridge can be lifted from the sunken columns onto newly designed columns, and straightened in situ. This is how the Central Artery was kept open in Boston during the Big Dig, and is the most likely scenario to be implemented in this case.
All of the news article commenters and anyone here who thinks a pile of dirt can't do this - you're wrong. It absolutely can.

I heard it explained elsewhere that the soil under the bridge is something like a big mattress, and when something heavy (as in the dirt) is put on the edge of that mattress, then the entire mattress will tend to deform to some extent, not just the place where the "new" weight was added.

Would it be possible to remediate the problem by holding the bridge up with something temporary (as in your Central Artery example above), and then demolishing and rebuilding the "leaning" piers?

That may end up being the answer. I don't know, sitting here, whether it's more expensive to build a Central Artery type system as a 20-30 year stopgap before the whole bridge is replaced, or to build a temporary scaffold and repour the columns. I think the former is the better value, but that's just what I think at 24:08.

What is the projected timeline for an alternatives analysis?  Presumably, it could go on infinitely, but presumably, the timeline for doing it is compressed due to the cost of the closed road. 

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 06, 2014, 12:24:45 AM
What is the projected timeline for an alternatives analysis?  Presumably, it could go on infinitely, but presumably, the timeline for doing it is compressed due to the cost of the closed road. 

There will probably be an abbreviated constructability review in coordination with the geotechnical assessment of soil conditions. They're not going to go crazy trying to find the cheapest or quickest option. Whatever they can pull together in a week or two, they're going to throw straight into the final design phase. I-43 Fox River was closed a little over 3 months, I think we're looking at a similar timeframe here.

Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

ixnay

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

ixnay

Yes. that is how interstate highways are funded.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/05/markell-weeks-months-reopens-delaware/10032061/

Some of the same press conference from delawareonline.com ^^^

Quote from: Alps on June 06, 2014, 12:08:58 AM
That may end up being the answer. I don't know, sitting here, whether it's more expensive to build a Central Artery type system as a 20-30 year stopgap before the whole bridge is replaced, or to build a temporary scaffold and repour the columns. I think the former is the better value, but that's just what I think at 24:08.

Understood.  Appreciate your informed commentary. 

Seems to me that they could build something "temporary" to hold the bridge up, and then demolish and replace the columns.  Now could the bridge be open to traffic with sometime temporary in place?  I have absolutely no idea, but I hope the bridge engineers give that some thought, since even if the replacement columns get poured in a matter of days, they have to cure for at least a month, right?

Reminds me of this:

D.C. DPW (before there was a DDOT) discovered a serious problem with the structural supports (might have been the piers) that held up the bridge that carries D.C. 295 over Nannie Helen Burroughs Avenue, N.E. about 10 or 12 years ago. 

A closure was not an option, so falsework was hastily designed and constructed out of steel I-beams and put up by a bridge construction crew that was diverted from an unrelated DDOT bridge project on the other side of town. That falsework rested on (IIRC) railroad ties which in turn rested on pavement. 

It remained that way for between 5 and 10 years, but a few years ago, the bridge was totally reconstructed and the falsework was removed.

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

Most of the cost of construction of this Interstate highway was funded by federal tax dollars.

What is your concern?

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on June 06, 2014, 09:25:39 AM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/05/markell-weeks-months-reopens-delaware/10032061/

Some of the same press conference from delawareonline.com ^^^

Generally I don't like newspapers airing videos, because you have a newspaper journalist acting as a television reporter.  They can be painful to listen to.  In this case, they simply put together what DelDOT engineers and the Governor had to say, and it was very insightful.

I wonder if there's any sort of pictures or video showing the bridge over a period of time to try to determine when the bridge really started tilting.  Even something like State Police vehicle dash video stored on a hard drive, if the camera is always on, could reveal when the bridge started shifting.

Federal Funding: People don't understand how funding works, so those stories can be easily written to mislead the public (no doubt they probably are).  Even a simple traffic light or sign could be paid for by people across all 50 states, if the Feds provided the state with funding for various programs, then the state passed that money down to the local counties or municipalities. 

It's becoming fairly clear what the issue is, and I feel bad for the contractor as well because he was probably directed to dump the dirt where he did, and no one knew or thought otherwise.  It seems to be clear it's not a case of illegal dumping, as they knew right away who the contractor was.

Looking at the Facebook comments from friends who live in Delaware - especially those that work in the Philly area - they've been dealing with some serious delays as they try to figure out alternate routes, generally increasing their commute time by double or close to triple. 

Regarding the statement that transportation costs have increased for truckers as they are using the NJ Turnpike as a bypass: A typical 5 axle truck would pay anywhere from $43 - $50 to travel the length of the Turnpike, depending on the time and method of payment.  Plus the cost of the Delaware Memorial Bridge.  So roundtrip, it could add about $100 or so to the transportation costs.  Depending on the origin/destination, more than likely it's a bit less than that as the trucks would've used the northern portion of the NJ Turnpike anyway, they could use 295, or would've had a destination closer than NYC that didn't involve the entire Turnpike.

Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
I shudder reading comments on articles like these.  The "top commenter" crowd is often the absolute worst.  They achieve Top Commenter by quantity and not quality, obviously.

Most news articles do not need commenting enabled because there isn't all that much to really discuss.  So the comments take no time to degenerate into "Blame Obama, Blame Bush, blame whoever" drivel.

A couple of prime examples of that:

Quote
Anthony Malvoso ·  Top Commenter · Lamar University

And the GOP still refuses to spend any money on infrastructure repairs.
Democrats,
If you vote we win.
It's that simple !

Quote
Gary Fowler · CDL-A Driver at Mother-trucker
Is that where Obama's shovel ready jobs money went?

What difference does it make if DelDOT doesn't consider using that money to strengthen that bridge?

Quote
DerpDerpConservativesDerp > JazzBo

You know what other money could go to fixing bridges? The money we use to bomb other countries, or the money we use to fund a military that spends twice as much as any other country in the world, or the money that goes to fight the bogus war on drugs, or the money we could make from raising corporate taxes back to Ronald Reagan numbers, or literally a thousand other ways that people fight and then whine about spits in the bucket like immigration or welfare.

FYI, Derp, the people we're bombing are the ones who would blow that bridge to smithereens during rush hour.

Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
Arguing anything like explaining the engineering, surcharging, etc. to that crowd does no good.  All they do is turn on the one who knows what they're talking about and ridicules them, belittles, them, incorrectly "corrects" them, etc.  They aren't worth engaging in any discussion with.  I wonder what they are like in real life......

Probably the same, and if not, they could be hiding how they feel, and only say what they do on the net. I haven't seen anyone try to correct these fools, but I have a feeling that if you did, they'd accuse you of being a tool for the government of some idiotic ready-made accusation like that.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/05/markell-weeks-months-reopens-delaware/10032061/

QuoteEngineers investigating the leaning bridge that was shut down along I-495 this week discovered that steel piles in the bridge's foundation are deformed and displaced sideways, creating cracks across the width of at least two concrete footings, state officials said Thursday.

Quote from: SteveG1988 on June 06, 2014, 07:03:40 AM

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

ixnay

Yes. that is how interstate highways are funded.

Indeed.

ixnay

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 06, 2014, 12:26:05 PM

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

Most of the cost of construction of this Interstate highway was funded by federal tax dollars.

What is your concern?

Curiosity, since this is for repair and not the original construction.

This quote from jeffandnicole...

QuoteFederal Funding: People don't understand how funding works, so those stories can be easily written to mislead the public (no doubt they probably are).  Even a simple traffic light or sign could be paid for by people across all 50 states, if the Feds provided the state with funding for various programs, then the state passed that money down to the local counties or municipalities. 

... seems to answer my question best.

ixnay

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

ixnay

Its Delaware, they'll find a way to get everyone else to pay for it. ;)

Quote from: NJRoadfan on June 07, 2014, 01:15:24 AM

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

ixnay

Its Delaware, they'll find a way to get everyone else to pay for it. ;)

It could be a good time to make the Christina River crossing a toll bridge!  ;-)

Quote from: Alex on June 07, 2014, 09:42:00 AM

Quote from: NJRoadfan on June 07, 2014, 01:15:24 AM

Quote from: ixnay on June 06, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
Americans in 50 states and DC will be stuck with part of the bill...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=59961

ixnay

Its Delaware, they'll find a way to get everyone else to pay for it. ;)

It could be a good time to make the Christina River crossing a toll bridge!  ;-)

Why not go big and build a toll tunnel?   :)

Quote from: Alex on June 07, 2014, 09:42:00 AM
It could be a good time to make the Christina River crossing a toll bridge!  ;-)

That would (effectively) turn I-495 into an express toll lane-type of bypass of Wilmington, though I suppose that many trucks would have to pay anyway, since there are low-overhead clearance bridges on the part of I-95 that runs parallel to I-495 in New Castle County.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 08, 2014, 08:50:54 PM

Quote from: Alex on June 07, 2014, 09:42:00 AM
It could be a good time to make the Christina River crossing a toll bridge!  ;-)

That would (effectively) turn I-495 into an express toll lane-type of bypass of Wilmington, though I suppose that many trucks would have to pay anyway, since there are low-overhead clearance bridges on the part of I-95 that runs parallel to I-495 in New Castle County.

The lowest clearance on 95 is 14'0". Trucks are limited to 13'6", so they are fully able to use I-95. It would be the extremely rare over height truck that would be prohibited, and they have so many other limitations in the area (traffic lights, power lines, etc) that they are rarely on the road without a major escort.

The columns seem to be slightly rebounding, if you don't ask "Bob Germanovich" in the comments under this article...

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Dirt-Removed-Delaware-Bridge-Columns-Rebound-262446941.html

QuoteBob Germanovich ·  Top Commenter · Multi Sport Athlete at Globex Corp

Not sure I'm convinced that the columns are rebounding after that dirt is removed, and if they are then they are too loose in their footings to begin with.

ixnay

I-495 bridge piers rebound with dirt's removal (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/09/i-495-bridge-piers-rebound-with-dirts-removal/10255747/)

QuoteThe Delaware Department of Transportation moved a step closer to identifying a massive dirt pile next to the closed I-495 bridge as the cause, or one of the causes, of the span's compromised support piers.

Removal of the 55,000-ton dirt pile was expected to be completed Monday. Over the weekend, as dirt was removed, the piers rebounded by 0.1 percent. Officials estimated that the bridge had been as much as 4 degrees out of vertical alignment.

In its daily update, DelDOT wrote, "This provides further evidence that the weight of the dirt could have contributed to the lateral displacement of the soil."

Dirt. A freaking pile of dirt.

Lovely how the simplest, most innocent things can cause the biggest screw-ups, isn't it?

Quote from: ixnay on June 09, 2014, 09:09:01 PM
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Dirt-Removed-Delaware-Bridge-Columns-Rebound-262446941.html

I find this section of that article interesting.....

QuoteBut a local businessman called 911 almost two months ago to report that concrete barriers separating the bridge's northbound and southbound lanes, which are supposed to be level with each other, had separated in elevation by as much as a foot.

Wonder why they didn't respond like Wisconsin did with the report of the dip on the I-43 bridge.....

Quote from: Alex on June 07, 2014, 09:42:00 AM
It could be a good time to make the Christina River crossing a toll bridge!  ;-)

That would spoil it's bragging rights as "The Through Route to Philadelphia" and ...Baltimore," though.

Quote from: Duke87 on June 10, 2014, 12:33:22 AM
Dirt. A freaking pile of dirt.

Lovely how the simplest, most innocent things can cause the biggest screw-ups, isn't it?

A glorified pile of dirt crashed I-35W into the river.

Looks like 495 will be closed all summer, maybe longer...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=60062

ixnay

Another story regarding the emergency construction for I-495:

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/10/delaware-bridge-closed-summer/10282123/

A few notes from here:

A) What they're doing to shore up the bridge and foundation has been acknolwedged as a plan that may not work.  They're going to work with this for a few weeks.  If it's determined it's not a workable plan (probably due to the soft soils which had a role in the tilting in the first place) then they're going to have to rebuild the bridge (or at least a portion of it).

B) Of the 8 affected piers, 4 will need to be replaced entirely.  But this can be done after the temporary stuff is in place.

C) The Tappen Zee Bridge is playing a part in the emergency construction:

QuoteThrough Zoli's connections, contractors reconstructing the 3-mile-long Tappan Zee Bridge over the Hudson River north of New York City decided this week to divert materials custom made for the Tappan Zee project to Delaware.

This saves DelDOT the six to eight weeks it would take to fabricate steel "cages" that will reinforce 4-foot-wide shafts drilled into the ground, Bhatt said. The cages are en route from Oklahoma and Washington state, said engineer Gregory D. Burkhart, vice president of the construction firm J.D. Eckman Inc.

D) The chosen company to do the repairs is basically an expert in the region for handling emergency repairs: J.D. Eckman Inc. of Atglen, Pa. — completed emergency repairs for the I-95 bridge over the Brandywine Creek, carried out a multi-year jacking up of the I-95 viaduct in Wilmington to replace critical support parts, and executed the two-day replacement of a 15-foot-high column at Aramingo Avenue in Philly that had forced the shutdown of a 3-mile stretch of road.

E) Restriping I-95 between 495 and 295 is a definite possibility, "...this could potentially help ease congestion, returning the highway to its configuration during the 1990s, said Adam Weiser, director of traffic-safety programs."

Indiana did some restriping on I-265 -- most notably the ramp to I-65 south -- to accommodate the closure of the I-64 Sherman Minton Bridge a couple of years ago. Last time I was in the area, last summer, the striping had been returned to its original configuration but the remnant of the old striping was still evident. Which made me wonder why they didn't leave the temporary striping as it was to handle more traffic.

DelawareOnline.com: DelDOT braces for legal challenges over I-495 (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/06/10/deldot-braces-legal-challenges/10286425/)

QuoteDelaware is assembling a legal team to manage fallout from damage to an I-495 bridge approach near the Port of Wilmington even as engineers race to shore up, repair and reopen the roadway.

QuoteDelDOT Secretary Shailen Bhatt said that the cause of the episode and repair effort could one day become a national case study for those involved in bridge maintenance and protection. It also could spawn a multitude of legal claims and court actions.

QuoteIt also has prompted a check of other bridges, Bhatt said, along with a reassessment of the agency's right-of-way controls, inspection process and handling of calls about bridge problems.

Jeez, the first Tappan Zee Bridge had the Korean War draw off its steel supplies, now this one has its supplies diverted to a bridge in Delaware...  I guess if you're building a Tappan Zee Bridge, prepare to wait in line.

Well, the spate of new articles at least answers the question of what happened - the large pile of dirt shifted the soil, which deformed and eventually bent the steel piles away from vertical or even shifted them away from where they were. This happened over the course of 1-2 years. Toward the very end, enough of the piles had shifted and enough support was lost that the foundation could no longer bear the load of the bridge. The foundation then cracked and the pier settled. This is why the tilt was sudden despite the dirt pile being there for so long.

So the proposed restriping, I take it, would mean to eliminate the shoulder through downtown and replace the acceleration lanes with yields, thus allowing 3 lanes continuous rather than it dropping to 2.

Lovely, but why only southbound?


Also, SEPTA should run more and/or longer trains out to Newark over the summer. Or is PA going to be damned if it lifts a finger to help solve Delaware's problem?

Quote from: Duke87 on June 11, 2014, 11:29:23 PM
So the proposed restriping, I take it, would mean to eliminate the shoulder through downtown and replace the acceleration lanes with yields, thus allowing 3 lanes continuous rather than it dropping to 2.

Lovely, but why only southbound?

The possible restriping will only be well south of Downtown, from 495 to 295.  Leaving Wilmington, 95 is 3 lanes.  The left lane is an exit only lane for I-295 North. The right lane becomes an exit only lane for Rt. 141.  Thus, mainline I-95 only has one continuous lane.  A possible restriping would give I-95 2 lanes thru this stretch.

QuoteAlso, SEPTA should run more and/or longer trains out to Newark over the summer. Or is PA going to be damned if it lifts a finger to help solve Delaware's problem?

SEPTA has this their own problems right now - they're talking about going on Strike!

I'm not sure what length trains they run, so I don't know if they can increase the length of those.  I haven't read either how much train ridership has increased since this incident began.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 12, 2014, 06:31:16 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on June 11, 2014, 11:29:23 PM
So the proposed restriping, I take it, would mean to eliminate the shoulder through downtown and replace the acceleration lanes with yields, thus allowing 3 lanes continuous rather than it dropping to 2.

Lovely, but why only southbound?

The possible restriping will only be well south of Downtown, from 495 to 295.  Leaving Wilmington, 95 is 3 lanes.  The left lane is an exit only lane for I-295 North. The right lane becomes an exit only lane for Rt. 141.  Thus, mainline I-95 only has one continuous lane.  A possible restriping would give I-95 2 lanes thru this stretch.

QuoteAlso, SEPTA should run more and/or longer trains out to Newark over the summer. Or is PA going to be damned if it lifts a finger to help solve Delaware's problem?

SEPTA has this their own problems right now - they're talking about going on Strike!

I'm not sure what length trains they run, so I don't know if they can increase the length of those.  I haven't read either how much train ridership has increased since this incident began.

Yes, possibly striking this weekend...

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=154870&start=120

http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/forum/philadelphia-transportation-septa/40370-septa-engineers-authorize-strike.html

ixnay

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 12, 2014, 06:31:16 AM

The possible restriping will only be well south of Downtown, from 495 to 295.  Leaving Wilmington, 95 is 3 lanes.  The left lane is an exit only lane for I-295 North. The right lane becomes an exit only lane for Rt. 141.  Thus, mainline I-95 only has one continuous lane.  A possible restriping would give I-95 2 lanes thru this stretch.

Agreed - that is a major bottleneck issue.  I tweeted this idea to DelDOT but did not hear back.

Quote from: MASTERNC on June 12, 2014, 10:22:18 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 12, 2014, 06:31:16 AM

The possible restriping will only be well south of Downtown, from 495 to 295.  Leaving Wilmington, 95 is 3 lanes.  The left lane is an exit only lane for I-295 North. The right lane becomes an exit only lane for Rt. 141.  Thus, mainline I-95 only has one continuous lane.  A possible restriping would give I-95 2 lanes thru this stretch.

Agreed - that is a major bottleneck issue.  I tweeted this idea to DelDOT but did not hear back.

Got our wish.

http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5179

Didn't DelDOT intentionally re-stripe I-95 there to "encourage" thru traffic to use I-495?

Quote from: MASTERNC on June 13, 2014, 04:38:14 PM

Quote from: MASTERNC on June 12, 2014, 10:22:18 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 12, 2014, 06:31:16 AM

The possible restriping will only be well south of Downtown, from 495 to 295.  Leaving Wilmington, 95 is 3 lanes.  The left lane is an exit only lane for I-295 North. The right lane becomes an exit only lane for Rt. 141.  Thus, mainline I-95 only has one continuous lane.  A possible restriping would give I-95 2 lanes thru this stretch.

Agreed - that is a major bottleneck issue.  I tweeted this idea to DelDOT but did not hear back.

Got our wish.

http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5179

Wonder if DelDOT would restripe 95 if a SEPTA strike weren't being threatened?   :paranoid:

ixnay

Sadly, that regional rail strike is happening, first time since 1983. I guess nobody will be taking the R2 line down to Wilmington and/or Newark anytime soon. :(

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on June 14, 2014, 12:02:53 PM
Sadly, that regional rail strike is happening, first time since 1983. I guess nobody will be taking the R2 line down to Wilmington and/or Newark anytime soon. :(

Only lasted 24 hours - President Obama has formed an emergency board to mediate negotiations, which also triggers an 8-month moratorium on striking.

Quote from: MASTERNC on June 14, 2014, 11:18:12 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on June 14, 2014, 12:02:53 PM
Sadly, that regional rail strike is happening, first time since 1983. I guess nobody will be taking the R2 line down to Wilmington and/or Newark anytime soon. :(

Only lasted 24 hours - President Obama has formed an emergency board to mediate negotiations, which also triggers an 8-month moratorium on striking.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/06/14/obama-intervenes-as-septa-regional-rail-strike-ends-service-resumes-sunday/

Fixed.

We now return this thread to our regularly scheduled highway topic.

ixnay

DelDOT restriped the left shoulder last night between I-295 and I-495.  Southbound traffic was flowing well this morning at 7:00.  Mornings, so far, have been generally free-flowing southbound, but as the day progresses, so does the delay.  I hope the added lane helps.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/14435383705_c5acf350d5_c.jpg)
(Photo taken through side mirror.)

Typical DelDOT sign amending. Sloppy.  :coffee:

Quote from: Alex on June 16, 2014, 08:49:02 AM
Typical DelDOT sign amending. Sloppy.  :coffee:

Not to mention they decided to ignore the one after it.

Bhatt: Feds say dirt pile damaged I-495 bridge (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/06/18/bhatt-feds-say-dirt-pile-damaged-bridge/10753233/)

QuoteThe Federal Highway Administration has found the damage to the I-495 bridge in Wilmington was initiated by the "external force" of a large mountain of dirt adjacent to the structure, Delaware Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt told state lawmakers Wednesday.

Speaking before a joint meeting of the Legislature's highway committees, Bhatt noted the federal agency also determined that the bridge over the Christina River had been properly inspected and maintained in recent years, and met the requisite standards at the time of its construction 40 years ago.

"It does not appear to the FHWA that there is anything that the state could have reasonably done to have anticipated or avoided this failure," Division Administrator Mary Ridgeway wrote in a June 12 letter to Bhatt.

Hmmmm...my picture of the above didn't come out as well as I would have liked. I was riding down with a friend from Connecticut over to Elkton, MD and then Wilmington for  a baseball game:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FW8A4FxI.jpg&hash=c522ec9e02c828bbcdfc9006d93630e178b4a7c9)

The 1-mile advance sign on I-95 south (With Pennsylvania specs) before the border didn't look any different:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXoQE4zr.jpg&hash=46da1506162cc1e4c939d718ec8b9275cb666d82)

This was one of the signs I saw, making an approach into Wilmington from the south and west on Tuesday, June 17th. Was it any different before?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLf4iExY.jpg&hash=75642b491106995dfed571f69b68997c2abb8103)

That last sign has not changed.  They have, however, had the right two lanes of that exit for I-495 closed for a while now.

Actually, the last 2 signs haven't changed.

The only signs I've seen changed are the ones on I-95 South approaching I-295.  The first 2 were changed to Left Exit using the above modified yellow plate - but at least they fit the yellow area (or was modified in a way where the plate looks like a perfect fit).  They obviously made a 3rd one at the same size, not considering the fact that this 3rd sign was of a different size.

Both PennDOT & DelDOT are presently using mostly VMS' to let motorists know about the I-495 bridge closure.  Since the closure will only last for 3, maybe 4 months; they're likely not going to temporarily change or cover-up any existing BGS' en masse.

Although PennDOT should really remove that "temporary" City/Port of banner (which covers the centerized Port of) on their diagramatic BGS' for the I-95/495 split.  That banner's been there since the late 90s/early 2000s when I-95 through Wilmington was being reconstructed.

Traveling south on I-95 Friday morning, there was - relatively speaking - very little traffic.  (fairly typical for a summer Friday as many people probably took the day off from work. By 1pm or so, many highways in the area were congested with a very early rush hour as people hit the roads for the weekend)

From the Commodore Barry Bridge South to Marsh Rd., traffic speeds were well above the speed limit.  The only congestion I hit was near the Rt. 202/Concord Pike Exit.

A few sights along the way...

One of the new 'Left Exit' plates, which matches the sign's current size a lot better than on the sign Kevin posted above.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2F63820545-99EA-4147-8BAF-92692B3CCB99.jpg&hash=2e6e07ed4e67f4dadc64b2c3057ded8af4b76380) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/63820545-99EA-4147-8BAF-92692B3CCB99.jpg.html)

Notice the left lane: On this particular trip, I had it all to myself.  Regarding the other drivers, maybe you can file this under Old Habits Die Hard or People Don't Know The Difference Between 'Exit Only' and 'Left Exit'.  I would imagine the main rush hour traffic - some of those leaving the city in the afternoon - have figured it out though.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2F09528EFB-E84F-46F7-AF08-9030748F6F7A.jpg&hash=6614f3e438fca0ec2467f9a9c615eeee0f4978d4) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/09528EFB-E84F-46F7-AF08-9030748F6F7A.jpg.html)

While much of the signage (and lack of signage) DelDOT has put out for this emergency construction has a lot to be desired, below is one of the best impromptu signs that were posted.  There's 2 or 3 of these along the right shoulder.  The only downside is that the sign would be more useful on the left shoulder, as the left lane has the new traffic pattern.  The left shoulder is only a jersey barrier with a 3 - 5 foot shoulder, so the sign would be sticking over the roadway if installed there.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2Fccfd12fa-8942-4a16-8f78-f42794aeca57.jpg&hash=f3a633a9b27830cf327b7cdec9c514cfec100e48) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/ccfd12fa-8942-4a16-8f78-f42794aeca57.jpg.html)

I passed that same sign twice on Tuesday. I was in the area of Frawley Stadium, the home of the Blue Rocks baseball team (which would've been on your left before these photos). I saw those same two signs but didn't think of snapping a pic of them. As for the billboard behind it, I don't want to give that radio station a free advertisement. I DO know it was Adam Levine from Maroon 5. Ha ha!

Also, I saw this same sign on at least three straight bridges:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5bwzxS1.jpg&hash=e92fa38d7c20064c081281c6bfa0627adb874435)

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on June 21, 2014, 02:39:17 PM
I passed that same sign twice on Tuesday. I was in the area of Frawley Stadium, the home of the Blue Rocks baseball team (which would've been on your left before these photos). I saw those same two signs but didn't think of snapping a pic of them. As for the billboard behind it, I don't want to give that radio station a free advertisement. I DO know it was Adam Levine from Maroon 5. Ha ha!

Also, I saw this same sign on at least three straight bridges:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5bwzxS1.jpg&hash=e92fa38d7c20064c081281c6bfa0627adb874435)

DelDOT does sign overkill along the trenched portion of I-95. There are four signs in a for DE 4/9, with the last a mere formality as its beyond the gore point. You get seven sets of signs for DE 4/9 heading northbound, then five for DE 52, including the last which is beyond the Exit 7 gore point.

MUST EXIT gets carbon copied too with sign replacements.

Question is, did they add temporary signage directing trucks to the Port of Wilmington for southbound travelers?

Quote from: Alex on June 22, 2014, 09:54:39 AM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on June 21, 2014, 02:39:17 PM
I passed that same sign twice on Tuesday. I was in the area of Frawley Stadium, the home of the Blue Rocks baseball team (which would've been on your left before these photos). I saw those same two signs but didn't think of snapping a pic of them. As for the billboard behind it, I don't want to give that radio station a free advertisement. I DO know it was Adam Levine from Maroon 5. Ha ha!

Also, I saw this same sign on at least three straight bridges:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5bwzxS1.jpg&hash=e92fa38d7c20064c081281c6bfa0627adb874435)

DelDOT does sign overkill along the trenched portion of I-95. There are four signs in a for DE 4/9, with the last a mere formality as its beyond the gore point. You get seven sets of signs for DE 4/9 heading northbound, then five for DE 52, including the last which is beyond the Exit 7 gore point.

MUST EXIT gets carbon copied too with sign replacements.

Question is, did they add temporary signage directing trucks to the Port of Wilmington for southbound travelers?

There was a mobile VMS on the shoulder of 95 South just prior to the PA/DE state line - from the left lane it was unreadable as it appeared the 1st 2 lanes were quite dim.  It may be similar to the sign found just after crossing the Del. Mem. Bridge, where a VMS sign suggests truckers use 9 North to the Port of Wilmington.

Approaching the 495 Ramp closure on 295 South, there is NO advanced signage regarding the lane closure (the lane is an exit only lane).  If you were intending on going using 495 North, one would find the lane ends abruptly with no advanced warning. 

Toxic find complicates I-495 bridge repair (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/06/21/contamination-concerns-complicate-bridge-repairs/11219009/)

QuoteCrews making emergency repairs to the tilting I-495 bridge in Wilmington are taking special care to avoid the spreading or transfer of earth contaminated by nearly a century of industrial activity in the area near the Port of Wilmington.

The 20-acre property on Christiana Avenue surrounding the damaged bridge piers hosted a sugar beet processing facility in the 1920s, a linoleum manufacturing plant through 1961, and later operated as a pilot plant for a range of emerging DuPont Co. products.

Following the June 2 emergency closure of the bridge, state highway officials secured from the Delaware Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control an extra 60 days to secure approvals and permits for digging in the contaminated area, said Robert B. McCleary, chief engineer of the state Department of Transportation.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 21, 2014, 09:30:49 AMA few sights along the way...

From those images it looks like they also changed the lane markers for the left lane too.  Just another thing "People Don't Know The Difference Between". 

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/DelDOT_I-495_bridge_work_moving_rapidly.html

Anything new to report on with I-495 this week? :)

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/07/03/bhatt-orders-deldot-reforms-bridge-shutdown/12155847/

Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt comes down hard on his agency's (lack of) response to concerns called in regarding I-495 before it was shut down in early June.

There's a roundtable on the subject today:
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/DelDOT-Secretary-to-Host-Roundtable-Discuss-I-495-Bridge-Repairs-265712231.html
So we'll see if any new news come from that.

Wow.

http://www.deldot.gov/home/secretary/

QuoteBefore joining FHWA, Bhatt served as a Deputy Executive Director with the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) where he was responsible for advancing transportation projects and addressing regional transportation needs. During his time at KYTC, he helped oversee a record construction letting period for the state.

That is a total and complete lie. The deputy executive director positions were established during the Fletcher administration as non-merit jobs to replace the administrative manager position (a merit system job) in the districts. They were in charge of personnel and buildings & grounds and administrative budgeting, not planning or engineering. And he didn't help oversee a record construction letting period for the state anymore than I did. Yes, Kentucky had its first $1 billion letting year while he was in the job in Bowling Green, but this biography vastly overstates his involvement.

He had a reputation as a micromanager and was not well-liked among the people I knew in the Bowling Green office. I don't think I ever met him and may have only been in the same room with him once, so I can't speak about him from personal experience, but only from third-party accounts.

My DED was great to work with. He was my supervisor for awhile, and he left me alone to do my job. We had tons of mutual friends, which helped. He's now doing incident management for eastern Kentucky and is great for keeping me informed about what's going on.

I had no idea he had surfaced in Delaware. I feel sorry for DelDOT and its employees.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2014, 06:14:13 PM
Wow.

http://www.deldot.gov/home/secretary/

QuoteBefore joining FHWA, Bhatt served as a Deputy Executive Director with the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) where he was responsible for advancing transportation projects and addressing regional transportation needs. During his time at KYTC, he helped oversee a record construction letting period for the state.

That is a total and complete lie. The deputy executive director positions were established during the Fletcher administration as non-merit jobs to replace the administrative manager position (a merit system job) in the districts. They were in charge of personnel and buildings & grounds and administrative budgeting, not planning or engineering. And he didn't help oversee a record construction letting period for the state anymore than I did. Yes, Kentucky had its first $1 billion letting year while he was in the job in Bowling Green, but this biography vastly overstates his involvement.

He had a reputation as a micromanager and was not well-liked among the people I knew in the Bowling Green office. I don't think I ever met him and may have only been in the same room with him once, so I can't speak about him from personal experience, but only from third-party accounts.

My DED was great to work with. He was my supervisor for awhile, and he left me alone to do my job. We had tons of mutual friends, which helped. He's now doing incident management for eastern Kentucky and is great for keeping me informed about what's going on.

I had no idea he had surfaced in Delaware. I feel sorry for DelDOT and its employees.

... Does the fact he's a Democrat have anything to do with your hatred? This is a rhetorical question, because I know you'll deny it, but I had a feeling he was after reading your rant. Took a bit of digging to uncover his affiliation.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 03, 2014, 01:50:47 PM
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/07/03/bhatt-orders-deldot-reforms-bridge-shutdown/12155847/

Transportation Secretary Shailen Bhatt comes down hard on his agency's (lack of) response to concerns called in regarding I-495 before it was shut down in early June.

In case you run into the News Journal's paywall, here's WDEL's version...

http://wdel.com/story.php?id=60702

ixnay

Quote from: Alps on July 03, 2014, 09:33:25 PM
... Does the fact he's a Democrat have anything to do with your hatred? This is a rhetorical question, because I know you'll deny it, but I had a feeling he was after reading your rant. Took a bit of digging to uncover his affiliation.

I had no clue what his party affiliation was. I assumed it was the opposite because he had a political appointment in a Republican administration in Kentucky.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2014, 11:39:04 PM

Quote from: Alps on July 03, 2014, 09:33:25 PM
... Does the fact he's a Democrat have anything to do with your hatred? This is a rhetorical question, because I know you'll deny it, but I had a feeling he was after reading your rant. Took a bit of digging to uncover his affiliation.

I had no clue what his party affiliation was. I assumed it was the opposite because he had a political appointment in a Republican administration in Kentucky.

:p  Honestly, I believe you had no idea. I just think that the people you hate all turn out to be Democrats.

Quote from: Alps on July 04, 2014, 12:27:49 AM
:p  Honestly, I believe you had no idea. I just think that the people you hate all turn out to be Democrats.

I hadn't even thought about him in years until the story brought his name up, and then I couldn't believe my eyes when I read his DelDOT biography, because I know what the deputy executive directors did in the highway districts (the position is now a political appointment called administrative coordinator), and what he said he was involved with wasn't what the DEDs did.

I don't hate him. I don't know him and only heard about him from others who did know him. But I was flabbergasted when I read his biography because that wasn't what he did when he worked for KYTC. He would have been gone from his employment no later than early 2008, after the 2007 election in which the Republican lost.

I checked his campaign contributions to Kentucky candidates. One was made in 2007 and it lists his employer as Barren River ADD, even though at that time he would have been working for KYTC. It was for a legislative candidate I did not know. The other was made after he moved to DC, it was to a Democrat who was running for secretary of state who was originally from Bowling Green. That contribution was probably more out of friendship or acquaintance than it was for partisan reasons.

---

One thing I did find interesting in his reaction was that reports have to be made by phone, not email. I know this isn't the case with the IRS  :-D , but email leaves a record, especially if you use return receipts. It's easier to deny a phone call than it is an email message.

Excuse the sunglare here.  DelDOT has added some signage on 295 South approaching 495/95 regarding 495's closure:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2F0073D532-EB8C-4F44-8525-82289840269C.jpg&hash=93d9336b954880c1148ef0344e72d2355a160347) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/0073D532-EB8C-4F44-8525-82289840269C.jpg.html)

Prior to that, they have on both side of the roadway signage that reads "ALT NORTH 495 (Up arrow)".  Fine and dandy...except they don't tell you what the alternate is.  Here you are approaching the 295 split where the left two lanes take you towards 95/495, and the right two lanes take you to 13/40.  The 495 Signs simply show up arrows, never guiding motorists to the proper alternate route (13 North will take you to 495 North.  That onramp is actually open, but dumps you off within a half mile where the road is closed). 

The signs should simply state "495 North Use 95 North", IMO.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2F5A7CD894-F148-40B3-B2CC-A720CD135BCF.jpg&hash=999731b0e581c4cccf08465ef12399cbbdba3365) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/5A7CD894-F148-40B3-B2CC-A720CD135BCF.jpg.html)

I also went down I-95 from PA today.  The gore point signs for the 95/495 split have temporary overlays.  The 495 sign now says "Local Traffic Only" while the 95 sign says "thru traffic" (between the arrows).  The arrow diagram in PA did not change IIRC, so there is some contradiction.

There are also "ALT I-495" signs before each exit on I-95 in Wilmington - they all point straight ahead (seems strange since I doubt anyone would accidentally exit I-95 for I-495).

Quote from: MASTERNC on July 07, 2014, 09:17:07 PM
I also went down I-95 from PA today.  The gore point signs for the 95/495 split have temporary overlays.  The 495 sign now says "Local Traffic Only" while the 95 sign says "thru traffic" (between the arrows).  The arrow diagram in PA did not change IIRC, so there is some contradiction.

There are also "ALT I-495" signs before each exit on I-95 in Wilmington - they all point straight ahead (seems strange since I doubt anyone would accidentally exit I-95 for I-495).

Did you notice if DelDOT posted an alternate route for vehicles that are overheight for I-95 through Wilmington?

14' 0" exceeds the permitted maximum height for trucks of 13' 6", so no alternate route is necessary.  Why that special, unnecessary signage is even there at the 95/495 split in the first place is questionable.  Anything greater than 13' 6" would require a oversized permit, and detailed routing would need to be declared at that time to DelDOT, which would warn the trucking company of any issues.

14' 0", while rare, isn't all that unusual on an interstate highway.  I-295 in NJ has several overpasses at 14' or less, for example.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 08, 2014, 12:22:04 PM
14' 0" exceeds the permitted maximum height for trucks of 13' 6", so no alternate route is necessary.  Why that special, unnecessary signage is even there at the 95/495 split in the first place is questionable.  Anything greater than 13' 6" would require a oversized permit, and detailed routing would need to be declared at that time to DelDOT, which would warn the trucking company of any issues.

14' 0", while rare, isn't all that unusual on an interstate highway.  I-295 in NJ has several overpasses at 14' or less, for example.

I thought some of the bridges over I-95 through Wilmington were less than 13' 6" (13' 0"?), but that may defective memory on my part.

I don't think it would be permitted to be an interstate highway if the overpasses were that low. 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 08, 2014, 12:39:20 PM
I don't think it would be permitted to be an interstate highway if the overpasses were that low. 

Third Street Tunnel in the District of Columbia (I-395) is posted 13' 0" (GSV sign (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=washington+dc&ll=38.905119,-77.015641&spn=0.005343,0.009012&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=np&hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbia&gl=us&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.905081,-77.015747&panoid=WdQN1mvIyCidPwgohLRMtQ&cbp=12,250.15,,0,-3.71) from westbound U.S. 50 (New York Avenue, N.W.) to tunnel entrance).

Note that I believe that 13" 0' is false, for I have followed what appear to be full-height tractor-trailer combinations through the tunnel (carefully) to see if the trailer strikes anything, and they have not).

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 08, 2014, 12:31:54 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 08, 2014, 12:22:04 PM
14' 0" exceeds the permitted maximum height for trucks of 13' 6", so no alternate route is necessary.  Why that special, unnecessary signage is even there at the 95/495 split in the first place is questionable.  Anything greater than 13' 6" would require a oversized permit, and detailed routing would need to be declared at that time to DelDOT, which would warn the trucking company of any issues.

14' 0", while rare, isn't all that unusual on an interstate highway.  I-295 in NJ has several overpasses at 14' or less, for example.

I thought some of the bridges over I-95 through Wilmington were less than 13' 6" (13' 0"?), but that may defective memory on my part.

I remember that being an issue northbound.  There are warning signs that are activated by taller trucks that direct them to use I-495.  There is also a clearance warning in yellow on the signs for I-95 North.

I don't recall ever seeing such a warning going southbound.

Quote from: MASTERNC on July 07, 2014, 09:17:07 PMThe gore point signs for the 95/495 split have temporary overlays.  The 495 sign now says "Local Traffic Only" while the 95 sign says "thru traffic" (between the arrows).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fpa%2Fi-95%2Fs11.jpg&hash=c32a98b033f53d2f3cf33dd992dda5670cb30919) How times have changed.

The yellow rectangles were gone went I took this on Tuesday, June 17th:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfHOdnY9.jpg&hash=2b45e1159034c2684eb34dfba3817f2a50368f5a)
Come to think of it, this might have been the BGS before that one. Shoot!  :pan:

That bridge behind the sign looks like it's on aa painful and frustrating road to drive on.  :bigass:

Quote from: hbelkins on July 09, 2014, 12:34:03 PM
That bridge behind the sign looks like it's on aa painful and frustrating road to drive on.  :bigass:

That's the traditional upkeep method of PA overpasses.  I remember a story a long time ago how PA tends to lack in normal care and maintenance of their overpasses.  While most other states will repaint their overpasses from time to time, PA tends to let them rust out long after they should have been taken care of.  One can travel almost any highway and find that same rusted condition on many of the overpasses.

Today, there are numerous overpasses throughout the state that are weight-limited to trucks, and on occasion, closed to all traffic.  It makes one wonder if PA kept up their bridges doing very ordinary painting work every 20 - 30 years or so, if their bridges wouldn't be in such bad shape today.

I think HB was referring more to the name of the road on the overpass...

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on July 09, 2014, 09:58:49 AM
The yellow rectangles were gone went I took this on Tuesday, June 17th:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfHOdnY9.jpg&hash=2b45e1159034c2684eb34dfba3817f2a50368f5a)
Come to think of it, this might have been the BGS before that one. Shoot!  :pan:

If PennDOT actually took the time to remove those yellow rectangles at the diagrammatic BGS located at the actual split; one would've hoped that they would've also removed that "temporary" City/Port of patch.  But then again, PennDOT and logic don't usually mix.  :sombrero:

Quote from: froggie on July 09, 2014, 01:50:28 PM
I think HB was referring more to the name of the road on the overpass…

Oh. LOL  (I see it there...along with hearing the similiar town names in PA...so often I completely forgot about that unusual street name!)

Yes friends...that IS indeed what the street blade said on the bridge! I only noticed that after I got to our hotel in Elkton, MD and checked the pics on my laptop screen!  :-D

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 09, 2014, 02:00:25 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on July 09, 2014, 09:58:49 AM
The yellow rectangles were gone went I took this on Tuesday, June 17th:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfHOdnY9.jpg&hash=2b45e1159034c2684eb34dfba3817f2a50368f5a)
Come to think of it, this might have been the BGS before that one. Shoot!  :pan:

If PennDOT actually took the time to remove those yellow rectangles at the diagrammatic BGS located at the actual split; one would've hoped that they would've also removed that "temporary" City/Port of patch.  But then again, PennDOT and logic don't usually mix.  :sombrero:

Never really understood the differentiation between "City of Wilmington" and "Wilmington". They really should just say "Port of Wilmington/Baltimore" and "Downtown Wilmington" as the two destinations.

DelDOT noted the repairs are ahead of schedule now and the SB lanes may open "several weeks" before Labor Day.

http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5209 (http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5209)

I'm not surprised that both directions won't be reopened at the same time.  I wonder, though, what determined which direction is getting priority?  Traffic volume?  Politics?  A coin toss?

ixnay

Quote from: ixnay on July 12, 2014, 09:07:54 AM
I'm not surprised that both directions won't be reopened at the same time.  I wonder, though, what determined which direction is getting priority?  Traffic volume?  Politics?  A coin toss?

ixnay

I thought southbound was the affected direction. If that's the case, then northbound can open whenever southbound does, presuming they're testing to make sure that nothing happened NB.

Quote from: Alps on July 12, 2014, 11:04:30 AM

Quote from: ixnay on July 12, 2014, 09:07:54 AM
I'm not surprised that both directions won't be reopened at the same time.  I wonder, though, what determined which direction is getting priority?  Traffic volume?  Politics?  A coin toss?

ixnay

I thought southbound was the affected direction. If that's the case, then northbound can open whenever southbound does, presuming they're testing to make sure that nothing happened NB.

In the photos it looked like SB was indeed affected.  Maybe they do need to do tests on NB.  Best to make this bridge safe or Mid-Atlanticans* will forget the I-35W tragedy.

*A crumulent word I know, and I consider eastern PA, south NJ, and metro NYC [sans SE CT]) to be part of the Mid-Atlantic, based on what I grew up reading (sorry, AARoads).

Both directions were affected.  I *thought* NB was where the dirt was laid and was the most affected side, but regardless the piers from both roadways were found to be leaning.

Quote from: ixnay on July 12, 2014, 12:28:33 PM


*A crumulent word I know, and I consider eastern PA, south NJ, and metro NYC [sans SE CT]) to be part of the Mid-Atlantic, based on what I grew up reading (sorry, AARoads).

I agree.  I know that on the Suggestions forum, I and others have commented on whether the regional forums should be divided in a different way.  I believe that ideally they should have been divided on state lines and not have one state in two separate regions.

As far as the different groupings of states that I learned in grade school:

New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southeastern, Southwestern, Midwestern, Plains, Rocky Mountain, and Pacific Coast states.  And yes, Mid-Atlantic states were: NY, NJ, PA, MD, and DE.  (VA and WV were part of the Southeastern states.

Quote from: mtantillo on July 10, 2014, 09:01:20 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 09, 2014, 02:00:25 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on July 09, 2014, 09:58:49 AM
The yellow rectangles were gone went I took this on Tuesday, June 17th:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfHOdnY9.jpg&hash=2b45e1159034c2684eb34dfba3817f2a50368f5a)
Come to think of it, this might have been the BGS before that one. Shoot!  :pan:

If PennDOT actually took the time to remove those yellow rectangles at the diagrammatic BGS located at the actual split; one would've hoped that they would've also removed that "temporary" City/Port of patch.  But then again, PennDOT and logic don't usually mix.  :sombrero:

Never really understood the differentiation between "City of Wilmington" and "Wilmington". They really should just say "Port of Wilmington/Baltimore" and "Downtown Wilmington" as the two destinations.

Again, to be clear; the City/Port of patch was placed over the original Port of patch during a reconstruction of I-95 that took place in the late 90s/early 2000s.  That patch was supposed to be removed when the project was completed.  The original distinction was just Wilmington for I-95 South and Port of Wilmington for I-495 South.

President Obama to visit the Port of Wilmington today to announce a transportation infrastructure plan, using the 495 Bridge Closure as a backdrop.

Some stories in the Wilmington DE News Journal:

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/07/16/visit-obama-announce-infrastructure-plan/12768219/  One of the interesting comments within the article is that "Compared to national averages, roads and bridges maintained by DelDOT are in relatively decent shape. Last year, the agency reported 99 percent of its pavement and 94 percent of its bridges are in good or fair condition."  But when a bridge fails...it fails badly! :-)  (And actually, that's not even the case with 495.  It was outside conditions - the dirt dumping - that caused it to fail)

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/07/15/obama-visit-expected-snarl-traffic/12705091/ .  Sounds like he will be flying in to the New Castle Airport.  If via plane, it's possible those on 13/40 at 273 can witness Airforce 1 Flying just a few feet above their heads!

QuoteIf via plane, it's possible those on 13/40 at 273 can witness Airforce 1 Flying just a few feet above their heads!

If it's that low, they will probably temporarily stop traffic on 13/40 when the plane is flying overhead.  They do this on the Andrews AFB perimeter road when Air Force 1 flies in or out.

http://6abc.cm/1uLUl2p

Southbound lanes reopened
RM-824_nam_att_101

Woah, that was quick...

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/07/31/bridge-southbound-lanes-open-pm/13422229/ (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/traffic/2014/07/31/bridge-southbound-lanes-open-pm/13422229/)

Quote from: mrsman on July 13, 2014, 06:28:34 PM
New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southeastern, Southwestern, Midwestern, Plains, Rocky Mountain, and Pacific Coast states.  And yes, Mid-Atlantic states were: NY, NJ, PA, MD, and DE.  (VA and WV were part of the Southeastern states.

Maryland needs to be in the same place as D.C. and Virginia.  Otherwise I am indifferent.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 01, 2014, 06:39:03 PM

Quote from: mrsman on July 13, 2014, 06:28:34 PM
New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southeastern, Southwestern, Midwestern, Plains, Rocky Mountain, and Pacific Coast states.  And yes, Mid-Atlantic states were: NY, NJ, PA, MD, and DE.  (VA and WV were part of the Southeastern states.

Maryland needs to be in the same place as D.C. and Virginia.  Otherwise I am indifferent.

2 Mid-Atlantic states touching Canada?  Eh.....

The definitions of various regions can vary, based on the person, organization, company, and how one looks at a map.  Heck, in my state of NJ, most people don't agree on the artificial border of North Jersey vs. South Jersey.  But most people here within the state would agree we are in the Northeast I would think.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 02, 2014, 11:28:35 AM
The definitions of various regions can vary, based on the person, organization, company, and how one looks at a map.  Heck, in my state of NJ, most people don't agree on the artificial border of North Jersey vs. South Jersey.  But most people here within the state would agree we are in the Northeast I would think.

I'd say anything south of Delaware is "mid-Atlantic", while everything to the north (and east) is the Northeast.

Delaware reopens I-495 northbound lanes (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/08/23/delaware-reopens-northbound-lanes/14499047/)

QuoteDelaware transportation officials have reopened the northbound lanes of I-495 east of Wilmington, finishing temporary repairs early to the last section of the stricken bridge over the Christina River.

Traffic began flowing about 3:15 p.m. The southbound lanes were reopened July 31.

Department of Transportation officials opted for an unceremonious reopening of the northbound highway lanes between 12th Street and Terminal Avenue in mid-afternoon — more than a week ahead of schedule.

What has become of that lane modification on I-95 south before I-495 merges in on the left now that everything has reopened?

Quote from: Alex4897 on August 24, 2014, 01:30:51 PM
What has become of that lane modification on I-95 south before I-495 merges in on the left now that everything has reopened?

It's still in its modified state: 1 lane merges with 95.

I don't know how to put a direct link in here for a Facebook page, so go onto Facebook, type 'delawareonline' into the search bar, go to the pics and scroll to the 5th or so over with the single car on the bridge...which is the 495 reopening. Then view the comments, and take notice to the several that say they need to add a guardrail. Then look at the pic again.

If my guess is right, these citizens believe that the 3 or 4 foot high abutment wall is actually some sort of curbing or pavement that stops just before the shoulder line, and they believe cars could just drive directly off the bridge!!

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 24, 2014, 09:56:29 PM
I don't know how to put a direct link in here for a Facebook page, so go onto Facebook, type 'delawareonline' into the search bar, go to the pics and scroll to the 5th or so over with the single car on the bridge...which is the 495 reopening. Then view the comments, and take notice to the several that say they need to add a guardrail. Then look at the pic again.

If my guess is right, these citizens believe that the 3 or 4 foot high abutment wall is actually some sort of curbing or pavement that stops just before the shoulder line, and they believe cars could just drive directly off the bridge!!

Where's the guardrail?

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 24, 2014, 09:56:29 PM
If my guess is right, these citizens believe that the 3 or 4 foot high abutment wall is actually some sort of curbing or pavement that stops just before the shoulder line, and they believe cars could just drive directly off the bridge!!

From that angle, it sure looks like it! Great photography. Not.

Apparently Google Street View imaged the public road (Delaware 9A. Christiana Avenue) that runs under the I-495 span over the Christiana River just south of the damaged section while the repair work was under way.  GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=39.723115,-75.535451&ll=39.723082,-75.535405&spn=0.01256,0.022573&num=1&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.723241,-75.535483&panoid=oq-4tlcpXRzvCj8B4y57vg&cbp=12,15.88,,0,0.34).

And a different (more minor) kind of mishap not so far away (south of the bridge repair site) here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=39.723115,-75.535451&ll=39.71686,-75.533023&spn=0.012627,0.022573&num=1&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.716687,-75.532597&panoid=A6bp22QgSYBxBw61nK8FLA&cbp=12,60.71,,0,11.02).

As of September (http://goo.gl/maps/Y0nD9), 495 SB was still narrowed to one lane at the 95 merge. Was this intended to be permanent? 495 should probably be two lanes at least through the merge.

They left the current lane configuration as is because it improved operations at the merge, which isn't surprising given the amount of traffic that'd be using I-95 to leave Wilmington during the PM rush.  They are apparently considering implementing variable lane control so they can swap back and forth if need be.

http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5328 (http://www.deldot.gov/home/newsroom/release.shtml?id=5328)

Wasn't the whole point of the original merge configuration to discourage through traffic from using I-95 and to force them onto I-495? Guess it didn't work out as well as planned.

The configuration was left in place for many years.  But I think in the meantime, they also reconfigured the 141 ramps, which left I-95 with only one actual thru lane. 

They're probably OK for now (2 lanes coming from Wilmington, 1 from 495), especially considering the amount of traffic that empties out of Wilmington during rush hour. 

What they'll have to look at in the future is when the 95 connections are made with the PA Turnpike, and Southbound traffic on the NJ Turnpike will encounter the I-95 signage at Interchange 6 when it's permanently signs (unlike now, when the greenout plates keep falling off the signage).  That will potentially induce more traffic thru Philly into Delaware, which will add additional traffic to the 95/495 merge. 

Personally, they should add an additional left lane at the 95/495 merge so there's 2 thru lanes for 95, and 2 lanes coming off of 495.  That furthest left lane should then taper down before the 95/295 merge.  (Why do I think that was the original configuration when 495 first opened??) 

Quote from: Roadsguy on February 14, 2015, 07:59:47 PM
As of September (http://goo.gl/maps/Y0nD9), 495 SB was still narrowed to one lane at the 95 merge. Was this intended to be permanent? 495 should probably be two lanes at least through the merge.

I haven't run into any issues with the one-lane configuration. It's something that is relatively easy to fix in the future if they need a change.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 15, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Wasn't the whole point of the original merge configuration to discourage through traffic from using I-95 and to force them onto I-495? Guess it didn't work out as well as planned.

Given how far downstream it is from where local and through traffic would be separating, I'm not so sure that's what their intentions were.  If they were to do something with lane configurations to try and force more people onto 495, they'd probably do it at the north split as opposed to the south merge.

When traveling from NJ to MD, I use the COMO Barry Bridge rather than the Delaware Memorial Bridges.  I stay with the I-95 through Wilmington because it is shorter than using the I-495.  But then again, I never travel there during the rush hours.

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 16, 2015, 09:05:36 PM
When traveling from NJ to MD, I use the COMO Barry Bridge rather than the Delaware Memorial Bridges.  I stay with the I-95 through Wilmington because it is shorter than using the I-495.  But then again, I never travel there during the rush hours.

Why would you do that? It's $1 more to cross that bridge, dealing with more traffic and slower speed limits. 

I've found there to be a greater chance of hitting heavy traffic on the Delaware Memorial bridges than on the COMO Barry Bridge.  I didn't know there was now a difference in the toll rates between the bridges.  And, I make the trip during off-peak hours so going through Wilmington isn't a problem.

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 16, 2015, 09:42:23 PMI didn't know there was now a difference in the toll rates between the bridges.

There's been a toll rate difference for years between those two bridges (due to both bridges being run by different agencies).  The only thing that's recently changed is the extent of the toll difference (courtesy of the DRPA).

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 15, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Wasn't the whole point of the original merge configuration to discourage through traffic from using I-95 and to force them onto I-495? Guess it didn't work out as well as planned.

Swapping the route numbers would solve that problem.

In general, 2 di's go thru cities.  3 di's go around cities.  Almost every city in the country deals with this.

True but 495 seems to be better equipped to handle through mainline traffic than 95 is. Hell anyone coming from the south to NY is encouraged to take the Del Mem Br ( :-D) and 295/NJTP up instead of staying on 95.

I seem to recall that the route numbers were swapped and then reswapped some time in the past.

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 18, 2015, 02:08:16 PM
I seem to recall that the route numbers were swapped and then reswapped some time in the past.

It was proposed but Wilmington bitched about losing the status of 95 going through their city. :spin:

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 18, 2015, 02:08:16 PM
I seem to recall that the route numbers were swapped and then reswapped some time in the past.

It was as part of an I-95 construction project during the late 70s; though for some reason I-895 was used for the I-95 section instead of I-495.

Quote from: ekt8750 on February 18, 2015, 01:58:06 PM
True but 495 seems to be better equipped to handle through mainline traffic than 95 is. Hell anyone coming from the south to NY is encouraged to take the Del Mem Br ( :-D) and 295/NJTP up instead of staying on 95.

That's not the same thing.   You're referring to control cities, not highway numbering destinations.

DelawareOnline.com: I-495 bridge damage: Delaware tries to recover costs (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2015/04/15/bridge-legal/25849097/)

QuoteThe Delaware Department of Transportation is moving ahead with an attempt to recover some of the nearly $43 million spent on I-495 emergency bridge repairs in Wilmington last year, drawing up a demand for insurance coverage details from those potentially responsible for damaging the span.

QuoteAlma Properties LLC, Port Contractors and owners of Keogh Contracting are targets in the coverage demand, said DelDOT spokesman Geoff Sundstrom.

QuoteOfficials with the companies could not be reached Wednesday.

QuoteState officials on June 2 ordered the I-495 bridge over the Christina River shut down in east Wilmington after lanes were found to be tilting along northbound and southbound approach spans immediately south of the waterway.

QuoteHuge backups developed in the first days of the detour as motorists were caught without good alternatives. Long snarls continued, especially during rush hours, throughout the summer.

QuoteAn investigation tied the shifting to an unauthorized soil stockpile dumped by Keogh alongside key bridge supports. The mass of material compressed soft soils around deep foundation piles, damaging them and the bases of some concrete supports, throwing the spans off balance.

QuoteKeogh is owned by James B. Thomas Jr., son of a founder of Port Contractors, the company that leased the DuPont Co.-owned land where Keogh dumped the soil. Port Contractors also has an interest in Alma, which owns land in the area and was reported to have dealt with Keogh for unrelated operations nearby.