If you could bring back one traditional highway practice, what would it be?

[J N Winkler]

I chose "other" as a proxy for "None of the above."  Most of the options listed are curiosities that are good to look at, and good to collect, but were abandoned for good reasons.  The lone exception is concrete for new pavement, which has never really been abandoned and so is not "traditional" in the same sense as the others.

One thing that used to be "traditional" in that sense, which I wish would be restored, is sheetings that remain color-stable as they age.  Microprismatic yellow, for example, fades surprisingly rapidly and badly--there are plenty of guide-sign sunflowers around me that are just ten years old and faded almost white.

[Indyroads]

I voted for cutout shields. Especiallly for the US highway sheild. it just looks terrible as a square sign. Additionally they should all be standardized using the California US shield as the default shield design.

[Brandon]

I voted for cutout shields. Especiallly for the US highway sheild. it just looks terrible as a square sign. Additionally they should all be standardized using the California US shield as the default shield design.

I vote for variety in this regard.  Personally, I'm more of a fan of the variety Michigan and Ohio used.  Cutouts with a black border and the number, no "US" at the top.

[Revive 755]

I'm going with other.  Slightly in order of practice:

* Rest areas, both on interstates and on other major expressways.  Less of the 'there's plenty of gas stations/fast food joins along the highway, the motorist can use their bathroom' attitude.  Also need less of the 'only trucks may need to pull over and stop, screw the autos' attitude seen in some states.

* Green lights in traffic signals that are truly green; less of the modern bluish green indications.  The color blind should be able to tell the indication by position.

* A tad less of making everything safe to the point of overkill, sometimes to the point of having unintended side effects.  Some possible examples:

   - Breakaway street lights that get knocked over by a drunk driver and then fall onto some other vehicle.  I think there is also at least one case of a pedestrian being electrocuted by a downed street light somewhere.

   - Excessive use of protected only lefts, especially when one signal ends up with protected only lefts because the next signal down the road has them.  So in the name of  safety there can be excessive delay, a greater risk of motorist pushing the light, or developing a habit of disregarding the light and turning whenever they fell is safe.

  - Excessive measures at signalized intersections next to railroad crossings.  If there's going to be a clearance period for any motorist who stopped on or between the tracks and the intersection, right turns on red from the leg with the crossing should be allowed.  Another safety idea that can lead to motorist pushing or disregarding the traffic signal, especially when the pre-signal turns red before the main traffic signal and there's more than enough time for a motorist to clear the intersection.

  - I'll also second the overuse of railroad crossing gates.  Might not have any safety issues, but still can lead to excessive delays when used on minor railroad crossings that see switching near the crossing and the gates get sensitive enough to drop if the engineer sneezes, and stay down even if the train is quite a distance from the crossing.

[J N Winkler]

- Breakaway street lights that get knocked over by a drunk driver and then fall onto some other vehicle.  I think there is also at least one case of a pedestrian being electrocuted by a downed street light somewhere.

Lamp columns with frangible bases are designed to break away from the impact, so the scenarios where they would fall on another vehicle if hit are far from universal (frontage road immediately adjacent, too-narrow right-of-way, etc.).  And lamps are equipped with cutoffs so that a break at the base does not result in an exposed electrical connection; I'm not sure what else could be done to reduce the risk of electrocution other than provision of ground fault interruption.

[vdeane]

On the safety mention, I was reading a week or two ago a gripe about crumple-away cars.  These days, the hood is designed to buckle if hit, and bumpers to be destroyed.  The result is that even a minor fender bender can total and old car (nearly happened to me, and the car hasn't been the same since).

* Green lights in traffic signals that are truly green; less of the modern bluish green indications.  The color blind should be able to tell the indication by position.

Ever been to Tipperary Hill?  It's even in my Syracuse atlas.

Signals look green to me though.  I wonder if I'm just too young to notice it of if NY never adopted the color change.

[cpzilliacus]

Pre-NMSL speed limits, especially on freeways (Interstate and non-Interstate) and rural arterial highways.

Traffic engineers, informed by the design speed of the road, should be in charge of setting speed limits. They do not need "help" from the Sierra Club or elected officials who either want to slow traffic (in some cases because they think they are "helping" transit providers to "compete" against private automobiles) or believe that slower means safer - or because of general anti-auto ideology.

[mgk920]

Two words:

'Smudge pots"



Mike

[cpzilliacus]

Two words:

'Smudge pots"



Mike

That would inspire letters and "campaigns" from the Sierra Club expressing "serious concern" about the impact of such devices.

[bugo]

Engine cranks. Sundown towns.

I grew up in a post-sundown town.

[agentsteel53]

I'd accept all signs being '70 spec Arialveticverstesk if we had a sensible speed limit policy.

[mgk920]

Also, how many remember those lighted balls, usually with yellow lights, that were used to outline traffic islands and medians at night?



Mike

[roadman]

Gateless railroad crossing signals.
In my opinion, gates are not needed. Lights work just fine. Gates are really annoying because they block traffic unnessessarily during the following situations: Hi-rail truck near crossing, track work near crossing, switching near crossing.
I like the old style mast signals where the crossbuck and lights are mounted more flush with the pole, and the crossbuck isn't too far from the lights.

Due to their light weight and other design criteria, Hi-Rail trucks don't trigger track circuits that activate crossing signals and gates.  Track workers near a crossing will temporarily override the track circuits so that the signals will continue to flash, but the gates won't go up and down unnecessarily.  Likewise, if switching operations routinely occur in the vicinity of a crossing, the track circuits will be designed so that the gates won't go down until the train is actually going through the crossing - and you can be sure that the switching crew has been given some very good incentives by their employer (like loss of pay or job) to not block the crossing for more time than is absolutely necessary.

[froggie]

Sorry, guys....until we as a society become less litigatious, R&P is doomed.

As for my vote, "None of the Above", for reasons similar to Mr. Winkler.

[NE2]

Sorry, guys....until we as a society become less litigatious, R&P is doomed.

And until cops become less piggish. Which will happen about the time pigs become less coppish.

[Revive 755]

Ever been to Tipperary Hill?  It's even in my Syracuse atlas.

That particular signal I'm open to having the blue-green light.  It's the other 99.9% where the green is on the bottom or the right (for horizontal signals) that should be more of a pure green.

[31E]

Nobody wants to repeal right turn on red ??

Nah. I'm a huge fan of right on red, and I'd go so far to say that it's a contender for the greatest American contribution to traffic laws. Expanding the general concept to straight and left would be a help to many drivers. Switching to flashing yellow during lightly-trafficked hours such as 2 AM (another more traditional practice from what I've heard) would solve most of that problem, however. It's quite annoying to see a traffic light put in due to rush hour traffic volumes that remains in that same cycle for the entire day when traffic volumes don't even rate a stoplight .

With the possible exception of the flashing solid yellow, I think modern traffic lights are very much superior to traditional traffic lights, from greater use of protected turns, to bright LED lamps, to flashing yellow arrows.

Although I'm definitely in favor of reasonable and prudent, I would be leery of going back to it at this point. I wish it had been the standard all along. I'm not sure we could bring it back now that law enforcement has had years to have the practice of aggressive speed enforcement as the "easy" ticket / revenue enhancement it has become. My fear would be that R&P becomes something arbitrary that a cop can determine more or less at whim and load one event into multiple tickets with big fines and points, simply because it's the end of the month and he hasn't met his quota, or doesn't like your make of car or your bumper sticker.

I tend to agree. The well of speed enforcement has been so poisoned by this point that I think removing speed restrictions altogether would be better, since it would be immune from vagueness lawsuits and take away any arbitrary enforcement power cops may claim under R&P. The experience Germany and Montana had with unrestricted speed indicate that such a regime is as safe or even safer than a traditional one, at least on freeways and rural roads. The speed signs would still be useful - they could simply be converted from R series signs to W series signs .

None of that would  be traditional highway practices, though, so moving on...

* Rest areas, both on interstates and on other major expressways.  Less of the 'there's plenty of gas stations/fast food joins along the highway, the motorist can use their bathroom' attitude.  Also need less of the 'only trucks may need to pull over and stop, screw the autos' attitude seen in some states.

That's a very good highway practice that is more traditional. Clean, attractive rest areas should be more common than they are. I usually use a Pilot or Flying J if I can find one, but there are long sections of freeway without such facilities.

I vote for cutout signs as the one practice I'd bring back, especially for US Routes. US Route cutout signs, like what are used today in California, are simply more attractive than having that huge black backing. For some reason I don't care much for concrete road surfaces, and although I like trusses just fine I would like some more variety in bridges, such as a cable-stayed configuration or something like that. That would be sort of interesting.

[The High Plains Traveler]

I'm in favor of reviving suicide passing lanes on three lane roads (a passing lane with no line markings indicating a priority for one direction).

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, there is very little about 1960s highways I would want to see back. That includes speed limits based on the self-evaluation of each driver as to what constitutes his safe speed. If you want your cutout route markers, then go for it. Basically, I vote None of the Above.

[jeffandnicole]

Stop making every 2 lane road a no-passing zone. Just like the useless red light at 2am, I shouldn't be forced to remain stuck behind a low-speed vehicle just because traffic is heavy a few hours a day.

Reasonable and prudent should be anything below 100.

You do understand the point if r&p is NOT to have a numerical value associated with it. Otherwise, just make the speed limit 100.

[Molandfreak]

Stop making every 2 lane road a no-passing zone. Just like the useless red light at 2am, I shouldn't be forced to remain stuck behind a low-speed vehicle just because traffic is heavy a few hours a day.

Reasonable and prudent should be anything below 100.

You do understand the point if r&p is NOT to have a numerical value associated with it. Otherwise, just make the speed limit 100.

The point is that 85 mph is a controllable speed and was more than reasonable for the road in question. Relatively straight roads with few or no intersections don't need a limit at all. I only picked 100 mph as the maximum controllable speed in an average car. Anyone can drive 85 in control. Few people can drive above 100 in control.

[PHLBOS]

Stop making every 2 lane road a no-passing zone. Just like the useless red light at 2am, I shouldn't be forced to remain stuck behind a low-speed vehicle just because traffic is heavy a few hours a day.

^^This.

[Alps]

As an engineer, I think in boring, practical terms, and the only ones in the poll with practical application are cutout shields and colored shields. I waffled a bit, but colors can be confusing to visiting motorists unless every state adopts the same color conventions (I'm assuming we're talking about color-by-direction and not just having a general background, because many states still do the latter).

[NE2]

I waffled a bit, but colors can be confusing to visiting motorists unless every state adopts the same color conventions (I'm assuming we're talking about color-by-direction and not just having a general background, because many states still do the latter).

Florida, the best-known coloring, did color-by-number. No two of the same color intersected (until 192 was extended to 27, both green).

[Alps]

I waffled a bit, but colors can be confusing to visiting motorists unless every state adopts the same color conventions (I'm assuming we're talking about color-by-direction and not just having a general background, because many states still do the latter).

Florida, the best-known coloring, did color-by-number. No two of the same color intersected (until 192 was extended to 27, both green).

Which is also cool, but I can see where it becomes confusing to follow colors all across the country. I think each state should designate one or more roads - current or former state highways - and sign them with "throwback" shields of any kind. Florida can sign US 1 with red shields, NJ can sign Skyline Drive 203, etc.

[NE2]

I think each state should designate one or more roads - current or former state highways - and sign them with "throwback" shields of any kind. Florida can sign US 1 with red shields, NJ can sign Skyline Drive 203, etc.

Not a bad idea. CR 3 in Volusia and old SR 4A in the Keys can get blue diamond signs.