Things I miss in roads

[xonhulu]

was that on mainline 217?  I went there in June '08 to try to find that 217 shield, as well as one in the other direction, and could not find either.

Yes.  At that time there were 2 of them, both posted on overpasses, but the other one had been "tagged," basically painted all black.  I'm pretty sure they're both gone now.

I know of two on 126 ... one on the mainline in Eugene, and one on what I believe is an old alignment, a block away from the mainline, in Redmond.

I think there are 2 left in Eugene, although one might be gone now (I can't remember if I've seen it recently, but I haven't been looking for it, either).  And here's the one in Redmond, like you said on the old alignment through downtown:



Here, you might get a kick out of this OR 126 shield, west of Eugene on a side road near Noti:



There's an OR 99 shield like this just off Belt Line Rd at the end of an off-ramp.

[agentsteel53]

can you email me the original photos in high resolution, for the shield gallery, of the 217 (both untagged and tagged ones), and the inverse-color 126 and 99?  shields@aaroads.com

the 126 in Redmond, yep, there it is in front of the insurance agency. 

the 97 and 39 are gone in Klamath Falls... any others left?

[xonhulu]

can you email me the original photos in high resolution, for the shield gallery, of the 217 (both untagged and tagged ones), and the inverse-color 126 and 99?  shields@aaroads.com

I never took a picture of the tagged 217 shield, but I just looked over the photo album and realized that there were actually 3 of them; however, I never got a close-up of the third one, just a distant shot from a moving car.  I'll email them to you, as well as the reverse 126.  However, the reverse 99 I'll have to get for you later.  I had a pic, but thanks to a PC problem I can't access it (long story).  Anyway, I need to get something at REI so I'll probably get down there soon.  I can also check for the 126 shields.

the 97 and 39 are gone in Klamath Falls... any others left?

Those 126's are the only ones I know about in the whole state.

[florida]

I miss the two lines for crosswalks, as opposed to the ugly bars they use nowadays.

-Old span wire traffic signals.
-Concrete
-Non-streetscaped streets in downtown areas

[thenetwork]

I miss the two lines for crosswalks, as opposed to the ugly bars they use nowadays.

Crosswalk Lines are still common, depending on what region you live in..

I remember a few towns when I was little that would not only use the crosswalk lines, but would also color in-between-the-lines to make the entire crosswalks green or turquoise. 

[florida]

I miss the two lines for crosswalks, as opposed to the ugly bars they use nowadays.

Crosswalk Lines are still common, depending on what region you live in..

I remember a few towns when I was little that would not only use the crosswalk lines, but would also color in-between-the-lines to make the entire crosswalks green or turquoise. 

They've started phasing them out down here, years ago. That's interesting! They probably looked better than what streetscaping does these days.

[Alex]

Slight diversion semi-OT...

as far as I know, there is only one button copy sign left in Nevada.  It's in front of the Stratosphere in Las Vegas, and has scraped off US-91 and US-466 shields on it!
<snipped image>
The other side has "Downtown" and a forward arrow.  I believe the sign was, at one point in its life, intentionally double-sided - this isn't just a case of them reusing the back of a sign as a new front. 

I think there is another one in Las Vegas.  On Main Street just north of Owens Avenue is a sign welcoming people to North Las Vegas, with a leaving/come again sign on the reverse (Google map).  I don't have any photos of it and it's hard to tell from the Google Street View, but I seem to remember it being button copy.

Anyway, the only freeway button copy sign I was referring to was a road info sign on I-80 WB just past the Keystone Ave onramp in Reno, NV.  It was somewhat obscured by the trees.  (I can't get Google maps to provide a good link, sorry). I saw some NDOT trucks off-road in the vicinity of the sign earlier in July, but couldn't tell what they were doing...they may have removed it.  I'm actually surprised this sign was missed in the RockyMountainRoads gallery, and more upset that I never got a picture of it.

Unfortunately we did not photograph that particular button copy sign in Reno (just checked the archives and its not there). At least there are still a few porcelains hanging around, tho less than in 2005. One I liked seeing (complete with overhead lighting) is the I-80 East Salt Lake pull-through. Other signs feature Elko.

[agentsteel53]

several of the porcelain signs in Reno are stamped, of all things, CA-78.  Yep, they were done by a California contractor... six years after California officially stopped using porcelain signs!

they are made exactly to California spec.  What's also a bit amusing to see, in Nevada, is the exact carbon copy retroreflective signs based on 1960s Cal Div of Hwys specifications.  Even CA doesn't copy their 1960s specs as exactly!

[Ian]

•  Old METAL traffic lights with GLASS lenses.

Metal signals are still made actually. Glass lenses aren't though.

-Old span wire traffic signals.

Span wire signals are actually still being installed in many states, most of which are in the northeast...
http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/MassachusettsTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5323186159515481490
http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/NewYorkTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5292758328944186850
http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/DelawareTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5347724523098608578

Delaware won't stop installing span wire (very few mast arms around), New York is depending on where you go, Massachusetts is using both, Pennsylvania sometimes used span-wire in its newer installs, New Jersey hates span-wire (only place I know of in NJ that uses it is Long Beach Island), Connecticut does, Rhode Island is the same is MA, Vermont uses them a lot, NH doesn't except for its flasher beacons (http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/NewHampshireTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5353947025784142962 ), Maine does.

I also found this rarity: a newer signal brand with WALK/DON'T WALK lenses...
http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/PennsylvaniaTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5302482280724185682

[roadfro]

Unfortunately we did not photograph that particular button copy sign in Reno (just checked the archives and its not there). At least there are still a few porcelains hanging around, tho less than in 2005. One I liked seeing (complete with overhead lighting) is the I-80 East Salt Lake pull-through. Other signs feature Elko.

Yeah, many of the older, dark green (porcelain) signs in the Reno area have been replaced within the last few years--most during the I-80/US 395 Spaghetti Bowl reconstruction project a few years ago.

A couple old ones on I-80 near downtown Reno (as well as some newer reflective signs) were replaced (actually covered by new sign panels) earlier this year.  The new signs on this stretch have a different reflective sheeting that appears to be more responsive to headlights, as NDOT removed the light fixtures when placing the new signs.  In fact, the Downtown/Virginia exit sign pictured above is the latest to have been replaced, which occurred sometime within the last 6 weeks.  What's pictured is the new version (I wish I knew some fellow roadfans were passing through recently!)

NDOT seems to be leaving the remaining I-80 pull-through signs alone for now.  The sign pictured with the control city of Salt Lake is the last one in the Reno area; the other two were changed to Elko with the Spaghetti Bowl sign replacements.

[Alex]

NDOT seems to be leaving the remaining I-80 pull-through signs alone for now.  The sign pictured with the control city of Salt Lake is the last one in the Reno area; the other two were changed to Elko with the Spaghetti Bowl sign replacements.

Yeah, many of the older, dark green (porcelain) signs in the Reno area have been replaced within the last few years--most during the I-80/US 395 Spaghetti Bowl reconstruction project a few years ago.

The one along eastbound was the only I saw on the Interstate 80 mainline.

I can add to the list of things I miss about roads:

Interstate Business Loops: They are slowly disappearing, more so in some states than others. The Verdi, NV business loop for instance is very well signed. The Reno/Sparks one however is down to one shield in Reno and two in Sparks. I am not sure if this sign http://www.rockymountainroads.com/nevada050/bl-080_nv-647_wb_begin.jpg is still there or not.

A couple old ones on I-80 near downtown Reno (as well as some newer reflective signs) were replaced (actually covered by new sign panels) earlier this year.  The new signs on this stretch have a different reflective sheeting that appears to be more responsive to headlights, as NDOT removed the light fixtures when placing the new signs.  In fact, the Downtown/Virginia exit sign pictured above is the latest to have been replaced, which occurred sometime within the last 6 weeks.  What's pictured is the new version (I wish I knew some fellow roadfans were passing through recently!)

That photo is from July 18. Had I had my laptop, I probably would have mentioned that we were in Reno for the night. I was offline for all 10-days of our recent California trip...

[florida]

-Old span wire traffic signals.

Span wire signals are actually still being installed in many states, most of which are in the northeast...

I meant down here. A hurricane blows through and everything is reinstalled as mast arms, or if a road is widened (most cases) all the new lights will be mast arms.

[Alex]

-Old span wire traffic signals.

Span wire signals are actually still being installed in many states, most of which are in the northeast...

I meant down here. A hurricane blows through and everything is reinstalled as mast arms, or if a road is widened (most cases) all the new lights will be mast arms.

Span wires in Florida are rapidly disappearing, but there are still found in clusters depending upon where you are. Many have been replaced in northwest Florida, but one recent installation on U.S. 98 was done in span wires.

Alabama still primarily uses span wires, though more mast arms have been installed in the southwestern part of the state, perhaps to deal with hurricane related winds.

As Froggie can attest, Mississippi is using mast arms more than span wires in its coastal areas as well.

[florida]

Mast arms in Florida are rapidly disappearing, but there are still found in clusters depending upon where you are. Many have been replaced in northwest Florida, but one recent installation on U.S. 98 was done in span wires.

Are they really? Tally uses them heavily. The first time I saw those horizontal lights they made me a little dizzy. A couple popped up down here, and they're being installed where SR 50 is being widened.

[Alex]

Mast arms Span Wires in Florida are rapidly disappearing, but there are still found in clusters depending upon where you are. Many have been replaced in northwest Florida, but one recent installation on U.S. 98 was done in span wires.

Are they really? Tally uses them heavily. The first time I saw those horizontal lights they made me a little dizzy. A couple popped up down here, and they're being installed where SR 50 is being widened.

No, meant span wires 

The first modern mast arms I saw in northwest Florida were those posted at Langley Avenue and U.S. 90. http://www.southeastroads.com/florida050/us-090_wb_at_langley_av.jpg

When I saw those, I liked them because they were different. Years later, they are the standard and not so cool... One thing about them that I don't like is that you cannot see the backs of the traffic lights. So its more difficult to tell the manufacturer of the signals. Also with them you'll almost never see a dog-house signal, unless the signals are posted vertically.


There's somewhere in Florida where I noted that the paint was flaking off the mast arms badly, making the assemblies look rundown. Does that ring a bell for you?

[getemngo]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'll miss Michigan's diagonal spanwire signals when they're gone.  One wire looks cleaner to me than four.  Plus, all the unique configurations, old brands, and 8" signals will someday disappear.    However, I don't mind mast arms, maybe because they're mostly limited to a few cities.

Are hanging backlit signs going to become a thing of the past, too?  They aren't being used with new left turn assemblies (with the horrendous flashing yellow arrow).  I sure hope Michigan will keep at least one of their unique signal practices...

[roadfro]

NDOT seems to be leaving the remaining I-80 pull-through signs alone for now.  The sign pictured with the control city of Salt Lake is the last one in the Reno area; the other two were changed to Elko with the Spaghetti Bowl sign replacements.

Yeah, many of the older, dark green (porcelain) signs in the Reno area have been replaced within the last few years--most during the I-80/US 395 Spaghetti Bowl reconstruction project a few years ago.

The one along eastbound was the only I saw on the Interstate 80 mainline.

Another one eastbound is about 3/4 mile past the pictured one. That's the abnormally-wide advance sign for US 395 at the Wells Ave exit. Westbound, there are two pull-through signs for I-80 West / Sacramento: one at the Virginia St exit, and one just past the Virginia St onramp.  The only other one in Reno that I know of is a southbound US 395 pull-through sign (with an awkward "Sparks-Reno" greenout) at the 395 Business split.  All others were replaced with the Spaghetti Bowl project that wrapped up in 2005/2006.

I can add to the list of things I miss about roads:

Interstate Business Loops: They are slowly disappearing, more so in some states than others. The Verdi, NV business loop for instance is very well signed. The Reno/Sparks one however is down to one shield in Reno and two in Sparks. I am not sure if this sign http://www.rockymountainroads.com/nevada050/bl-080_nv-647_wb_begin.jpg is still there or not.

Actually, the business loop in Verdi is only well signed where it is an I-80 frontage road in western Verdi. The SR 425 portion, which actually goes through the main part of Verdi, has no BL-80 or SR 425 shields whatsoever (at least as of 9/1/08).

There's at least two BL-80 shields in Reno, one being an interesting non-cutout shield of seemingly recent vintage.  Sparks has at least three: one of an older vintage, two newer with the bizarre "Business Loop I-80" legends.  Actually, that'd be four if you count the business loop sign linked above, which was still there a couple months ago.


I would have to agree that Interstate business loops (or business loops in general) seem to be declining in importance and consistent signing.

Most of the BL I-80 in Reno/Sparks is under local control, and is not consistently signed.  Business US 395 is also mostly locally controlled but rarely signed (the only independent, non-BGS sign I know of is on an NDOT portion).  It seems the local entities don't have an interest in maintaining business loop signage that are often present on published maps. 

Although, NDOT-maintained business loops are not always consistently signed either, such as Bus US 95/SR 599/Rancho Dr in Las Vegas.  It is signed on freeway BGSs, but not on the actual highway itself (and there are few, if any, SR 599 shields aside from the termini).

Are hanging backlit signs going to become a thing of the past, too?  They aren't being used with new left turn assemblies (with the horrendous flashing yellow arrow).  I sure hope Michigan will keep at least one of their unique signal practices...

Are you talking about backlit "Left" or "Left <arrow>" signs?  Yeah, they're definitely not needed with a flashing yellow arrow assembly.

Michigan won't have any unique signal practices if FHWA gets their way.  They and the National Committee on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (NCUTCD) really seemed to target traffic signals practices in the proposed changes to the MUTCD.  One goal with some of the revisions is to standardize the varying types of left turn signal displays used around the country.

[njroadhorse]

I think I will add Jersey-style mast arm signal gantries.  I notice those are slowly being changed out.

[hm insulators]

Open-wire telephone lines along highways and railroad tracks.

[rawmustard]

Are hanging backlit signs going to become a thing of the past, too?  They aren't being used with new left turn assemblies (with the horrendous flashing yellow arrow).  I sure hope Michigan will keep at least one of their unique signal practices...

MDOT has been keeping red balls when using three-section left-turn faces and thus still uses the back-lit LEFT signs with those. MDOT could've chosen to use red balls with the flashing-yellow arrow signals, which (according to MUTCD standard) require a left-turn sign, but ironically they went with all arrow faces for those. If you want to see a good example of both types in action, check out the recent signal replacements on 28th St at both Buchanan and Division.

Of course, there may be some left-turn faces which get converted yet keep the backlit sign despite an all-arrow face. Such was the case at Oakland Drive and the EB I-94 ramp.

[Alex]

Another one eastbound is about 3/4 mile past the pictured one. That's the abnormally-wide advance sign for US 395 at the Wells Ave exit.

Did see that one, even retains its lighting fixtures still too...
There's also one at the Exit 12 off-ramp to Keystone Avenue.

Westbound, there are two pull-through signs for I-80 West / Sacramento: one at the Virginia St exit, and one just past the Virginia St onramp. 

Didn't drive I-80 westbound beyond in Reno this time, but the two signs you mention are on the web page:
http://www.rockymountainroads.com/nevada050/i-080_wb_exit_013_04.jpg
http://www.rockymountainroads.com/nevada050/i-080_wb_exit_012_01.jpg

The only other one in Reno that I know of is a southbound US 395 pull-through sign (with an awkward "Sparks-Reno" greenout) at the 395 Business split.  All others were replaced with the Spaghetti Bowl project that wrapped up in 2005/2006.

http://www.rockymountainroads.com/nevada200/us-395_sb_exit_072_02.jpg - that is awkward looking...

Actually, the business loop in Verdi is only well signed where it is an I-80 frontage road in western Verdi. The SR 425 portion, which actually goes through the main part of Verdi, has no BL-80 or SR 425 shields whatsoever (at least as of 9/1/08).

Yes you are right, we took the Verdi loop from its westbound beginning at Exit 3, and besides the BL 80 shield on the ramp, there were no other indications of the Business Loop until those frontage roads. Our only indication to turn left was the green street sign "US 40", and there were no shields on that drive until it reaches the interchange with I-80.

There's at least two BL-80 shields in Reno, one being an interesting non-cutout shield of seemingly recent vintage.  Sparks has at least three: one of an older vintage, two newer with the bizarre "Business Loop I-80" legends.  Actually, that'd be four if you count the business loop sign linked above, which was still there a couple months ago.

Photographed the non-cutout on westbound in Reno. Also photo'd one eastbound near the interchange at the Reno/Sparks city line, and one of the "BL I-80" shields on westbound.

I would have to agree that Interstate business loops (or business loops in general) seem to be declining in importance and consistent signing.

Most of the BL I-80 in Reno/Sparks is under local control, and is not consistently signed.  Business US 395 is also mostly locally controlled but rarely signed (the only independent, non-BGS sign I know of is on an NDOT portion).  It seems the local entities don't have an interest in maintaining business loop signage that are often present on published maps. 

I think we saw a U.S. 395 shield assembly from the freeway for Virginia Street that did not include business banners. It was somewhere on the south side of the city.

As for business loops in general, BL I-205 in CA is down to just freeway signage, the BL 80 in Sidney, NE is dead, BL I-76 in Colorado is dead now, etc.

[getemngo]

In reply to roadfro and rawmustard:

I was referring in part to the "Left" signs, yes, but also the [Left arrow] Only, No Left Turn/No Right Turn, One Way, Do Not Enter, No Turn on Red, etc. signs.  In my experience, signals with flashing yellow arrows have absolutely no backlit signs whatsoever.

Michigan Street in Grand Rapids has quite a few signals that use the [Left arrow] Only sign for the left turn lane and then a doghouse left turn signal.  I think I'd take those over flashing yellow arrows.  When did flashing yellow become Yield?  And why on earth do they need four signal heads??

[roadfro]

Michigan Street in Grand Rapids has quite a few signals that use the [Left arrow] Only sign for the left turn lane and then a doghouse left turn signal.  I think I'd take those over flashing yellow arrows.  When did flashing yellow become Yield?  And why on earth do they need four signal heads??

Flashing yellow isn't so much a yield as it is a "proceed with caution".

The use of four signal heads with this control provides a visual jump between the flashing yellow and steady yellow display. This makes it more apparent to the driver that the signal is ending the permitted left turn phase.  An alternative allows for a three-head display where the flashing yellow and standard green arrow are in a bimodal display head (still allowing the jump when the phase terminates).

[akotchi]

I need to add a specific item:  cut-out Pa Turnpike trailblazer signs.

Also, how about optically-programmed left turn signals?

[agentsteel53]

there are some cutout PA turnpike trailblazers floating around.  I know one in New Jersey, and an embossed one (!) in Pittsburgh!