Interstate 15 north of Barstow to the State Line

[Max Rockatansky]

Why would Nevada push for California's style of transportation objectives with this particular item though?  The entirety of I-15 south of Las Vegas to the California state line is already six lanes.  Nevada has invested into improvements to I-15 whereas California doesn't want to.

[cl94]

Of course, the bigger elephant in the room is "California has no money" and there are few federal funding pots for rural infrastructure. The budget situation right now is...bad. Bad enough that they won't have money for a project of this scale unless the feds kick in some funding, which hahahahahahaha under any administration in the past 40 years.

Nevada has money for transportation projects right now. California does not unless the money is federal. It's as simple as that. And I say this as someone with knowledge of the transportation funding situation in both states. Brightline comes from a special federal rail pool that can't be used for roads.

[Scott5114]

And that is the key here. Unless the feds or Nevada are going to foot the bill, there is no incentive for California to widen. The congestion is people leaving California to spend money in other states. It might be CA residents, sure, but they're not spending money in the state. Why would the state want to encourage money to go elsewhere?

There lies the rub. If this is a big issue for Las Vegas, perhaps they could implement a hotel tax or add a surcharge to parking fees to help fund the improvements. The parking fee probably makes the most sense in that it won't penalize people who didn't drive, although the revenue required might make the cost of parking pretty steep, which could have course encourage people to fly or (one day) take the train instead or driving, which would also help to reduce congestion on I-15.

The problem with this is that it also penalizes people who fly into Harry Reid and rent a car, who drive from other states and come in on I-11, etc.

[roadfro]

And that is the key here. Unless the feds or Nevada are going to foot the bill, there is no incentive for California to widen. The congestion is people leaving California to spend money in other states. It might be CA residents, sure, but they're not spending money in the state. Why would the state want to encourage money to go elsewhere?

There lies the rub. If this is a big issue for Las Vegas, perhaps they could implement a hotel tax or add a surcharge to parking fees to help fund the improvements. The parking fee probably makes the most sense in that it won't penalize people who didn't drive, although the revenue required might make the cost of parking pretty steep, which could have course encourage people to fly or (one day) take the train instead or driving, which would also help to reduce congestion on I-15.

It didn't used to be such a big issue for the Vegas valley, until California moved the Agricultural Inspection station within 6 miles of the state line. Previously when the station was way closer to Barstow (outside Yermo), the holiday weekend backup was entirely contained in rural California. Now, that backup extends frequently into Nevada where we can easily see it on the traffic cams NDOT installed with previous widening/ITS projects that the local news can also broadcast the feed of any time they want—so it's much more at the forefront of the Vegas consciousness now. It would have made more sense to relocate the ag station outside of Baker than where they put it.

Vegas already has a bunch of hotel room taxes that fund local road construction and are allocated to a variety of other things (e.g. the public money part of building Allegiant Stadium). The parking fees are all implemented by private owners (and recently too when parking used to be free, which was already a consternation to locals and many visitors), so a surcharge there isn't ideal—not to mention that the not all visitors come from California, so that would not be a completely fair allocation.

[Max Rockatansky]

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed. 

[Sub-Urbanite]

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

I barely remember stopping at the old station. You'd just get waved through en masse.

[cl94]

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

Same reason they moved the Truckee one. It was extremely easy to bypass it by driving a mile on local streets. Now, it's still possible to bypass the new one, just involves a bit more planning and the first sign isn't until you're past the point of no return.

[Scott5114]

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

Same reason they moved the Truckee one. It was extremely easy to bypass it by driving a mile on local streets. Now, it's still possible to bypass the new one, just involves a bit more planning and the first sign isn't until you're past the point of no return.

NDOT has a huge opportunity here to be funny by just posting directions on the NV side of the border on how to bypass the stupid checkpoint. What? We're just trying eliminate backups on our stretch of I-15!

Maybe that would get California's attention.

[Max Rockatansky]

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

Same reason they moved the Truckee one. It was extremely easy to bypass it by driving a mile on local streets. Now, it's still possible to bypass the new one, just involves a bit more planning and the first sign isn't until you're past the point of no return.

Which brings me back to "what is the point of stopping passenger vehicles?"  I have yet to find a suitable explanation why this is still a thing despite every other state in the country moving away from checking anything other than commercial vehicles (thinking Ag heavy Florida most prominently).  It isn't as though the commercial inspection station on I-15 doesn't have a dedicated separation away from the passenger vehicles. 

[cl94]

The fun thing with both of the abovementioned checkpoints is that it is possible to bypass them solely using the state highway system if you know what you are doing. 80 is comically easy via SRs 431, 28, and 267, none of which are seasonal. Southern US 395 is also ridiculously easy to bypass using only state highways. Trucks legally need to report to ag stations and this is occasionally enforced during traffic stops or weigh station visits.

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

Same reason they moved the Truckee one. It was extremely easy to bypass it by driving a mile on local streets. Now, it's still possible to bypass the new one, just involves a bit more planning and the first sign isn't until you're past the point of no return.

Which brings me back to "what is the point of stopping passenger vehicles?"  I have yet to find a suitable explanation why this is still a thing despite every other state in the country moving away from checking anything other than commercial vehicles (thinking Ag heavy Florida most prominently).  It isn't as though the commercial inspection station on I-15 doesn't have a dedicated separation away from the passenger vehicles. 

This assumes the passenger side is even staffed. Most of the time, the passenger side in Truckee is unstaffed. I have never driven through it when it is staffed and I'm through relatively often. Needles had one person just waving people in multiple car lanes through when I was there in November.

[Max Rockatansky]

Right, so basically the passenger traffic being inspected is clearly optional.  Most of the time even a station is staffed the passenger vehicles just get waved through.  Why not just eliminate the passenger element to the equation and allow it  to continue on the through grade of I-15 unimpeded?

[Plutonic Panda]

Probably the same reason California can't be bothered to raise its speed limits to 75-80 on some roads. Today they were patrolling heavy on the new 405 express lanes. Those lanes should be 75MPH. Insane how people I saw pulled over on them today. Just a money grab.

Same goes for the 55MPH truck limit. Just a state set in its ways with its fucked political priorities. The fact Caltrans repeatedly says an expansion of I-15 in this area isn't even on its radar says a lot. But then again they seem like the type of agency to just up and announce some initiative to start a study of it out of nowhere so we'll see. That's pretty much what happened with the current shoulder lanes.

[kphoger]

NDOT has a huge opportunity here to be funny by just posting directions on the NV side of the border on how to bypass the stupid checkpoint. What? We're just trying eliminate backups on our stretch of I-15!

Maybe that would get California's attention.

... and prompt California to retaliate by stopping every vehicle by the book, leading to much worse delays ...

[Plutonic Panda]

NDOT has a huge opportunity here to be funny by just posting directions on the NV side of the border on how to bypass the stupid checkpoint. What? We're just trying eliminate backups on our stretch of I-15!

Maybe that would get California's attention.

... and prompt California to retaliate by stopping every vehicle by the book, leading to much worse delays ...

I doubt California would care. I think that's the problem. They just don't care. And I'm glad Nevada(specifically) Vegas is taking an initiative to push for better infrastructure improvements on their neighboring state even if they've completed theirs. It can still affect them. People having a bad experience heading back isn't good so it's good that Goodman is looking out for motorists getting the complete fuck you from Caltrans.

Califonia could easily do this. Missouri got their act together widening the entirety of I-70 in a year and before they've even began they're already talking about I-44. California is the fifth largest economy in the world. It could do it if it wants to. they just don't care

[cahwyguy]

Califonia could easily do this. Missouri got their act together widening the entirety of I-70 in a year and before they've even began they're already talking about I-44. California is the fifth largest economy in the world. It could do it if it wants to. they just don't care

You're making many presumptions here.

First, it is not Caltrans that initiates projects these days. It is the regional transportation agencies, and this may not be a high priority for the agency in that area (even if there is one -- given how rural the area is). Regional transportation agencies initiate projects, which then (after they've done some preliminary design and estimates) get incorporated into the SHOPP or STIP.

Caltraysn may very well care. But there may be other priorities, and there is only so much money to go around -- and other work may be prioritized higher. Whyat may seem a priority for you may not be a priority when you have a statewide view. Often, true safety projects will have higher priority than projects that simply reduce congestion.

Lastly, you have no idea if this is in a planning process somewhere and hasn't popped out. If the project is in process, but they are still doing early design, early environmental studies, then you'll have no idea.

Want to make a difference? Go back to my headline post:

Caltrans opens draft of state highway project list for public comment (Transportation Today): https://transportationtodaynews.com/news/31866-caltrans-opens-draft-of-state-highway-project-list-for-public-comment/ . On Friday, Caltrans released its draft 2024 State Highway Operation and Protection Program (SHOPP) plan for public comment. The draft is the state's initial plan for maintaining and preserving California's transportation infrastructure and outlines how the state will fund the approximately $16 billion in projects. The plan will be open for public comment through Jan. 19, 2024 and features a new interactive dashboard that details the location and specific for each of the nearly 600 projects in the state, including nearly 100 carryover projects where Caltrans added climate adaptation, additional safety protections and bike and pedestrian elements. The plan includes 195 new projects, totaling $6.2 billion, where planning work was completed after the state adopted its Climate Action Plan for Transportation Infrastructure in 2021. Those projects include climate, safety and multimodal features. The SHOPP covers fiscal years 2024 through 2028 and funds roadway and bridge rehabilitation or replacements, along with safety improvements, bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure, operational improvements and climate adaptation projects. See http://projectbook.dot.ca.gov/

Go through the project book and make some comments.

[Plutonic Panda]

First off, you're the one making assumptions. I already have used your post to write Caltrans about widening I 15. I've probably sent them over a dozen emails and letters about it, including my local representatives. So you have no clue what I am and I'm not doing.

Secondly, which regional transit authority handles this area in the middle of nowhere?

[cl94]

For starters, California has no money for rural transportation projects. The state is looking at furloughs right now, so they're not gonna throw hundreds of millions (billions?) at this.

Second, the California Transportation Commission would need to give it their blessing for state funds to be applied. I see zero chance of that happening as there are a couple of VMT hawks on it now. They poo-pooed a HOT project in the Inland Empire just last month because it would add capacity.

Third, San Bernardino County is SCAG, which is the Los Angeles MPO. I can guarantee they do not care about long-distance travel to Las Vegas, nor to they want to do anything that could be viewed as encouraging more people to drive to Vegas. CA politicians and the AG are coming down hard on MPOs regarding VMT stuff.

(Personal opinion emphasized)

[Plutonic Panda]

They just had a surplus of over 100 billion but now they're in a deficit. The financial world sure is is funny.

[Scott5114]

I seem to remember reading that at one point Governor Sisolak (when he was in office) talked directly to Governor Newsom about this. If that didn't get the ball rolling on anything, I doubt anything would.

[Mark68]

The fun thing with both of the abovementioned checkpoints is that it is possible to bypass them solely using the state highway system if you know what you are doing. 80 is comically easy via SRs 431, 28, and 267, none of which are seasonal. Southern US 395 is also ridiculously easy to bypass using only state highways. Trucks legally need to report to ag stations and this is occasionally enforced during traffic stops or weigh station visits.

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

Same reason they moved the Truckee one. It was extremely easy to bypass it by driving a mile on local streets. Now, it's still possible to bypass the new one, just involves a bit more planning and the first sign isn't until you're past the point of no return.

Which brings me back to "what is the point of stopping passenger vehicles?"  I have yet to find a suitable explanation why this is still a thing despite every other state in the country moving away from checking anything other than commercial vehicles (thinking Ag heavy Florida most prominently).  It isn't as though the commercial inspection station on I-15 doesn't have a dedicated separation away from the passenger vehicles. 

This assumes the passenger side is even staffed. Most of the time, the passenger side in Truckee is unstaffed. I have never driven through it when it is staffed and I'm through relatively often. Needles had one person just waving people in multiple car lanes through when I was there in November.

What's funny is that this Ag Station could be easily bypassed by taking US 95 south to Searchlight and then NV 164/Nipton Rd west.

I mean, why go all the way to I-40?

[roadfro]

I seem to remember reading that at one point Governor Sisolak (when he was in office) talked directly to Governor Newsom about this. If that didn't get the ball rolling on anything, I doubt anything would.

You recall correctly...most likely about two years ago in this very thread (here's the post I wrote)

[Plutonic Panda]

I seem to remember reading that at one point Governor Sisolak (when he was in office) talked directly to Governor Newsom about this. If that didn't get the ball rolling on anything, I doubt anything would.

Maybe as CAHWY Guy said there's something going on behind the scenes. Hopefully that's the case.

[Max Rockatansky]

The fun thing with both of the abovementioned checkpoints is that it is possible to bypass them solely using the state highway system if you know what you are doing. 80 is comically easy via SRs 431, 28, and 267, none of which are seasonal. Southern US 395 is also ridiculously easy to bypass using only state highways. Trucks legally need to report to ag stations and this is occasionally enforced during traffic stops or weigh station visits.

Worth noting, at least in my own experience that old station was nowhere nearly as bad.  It was located on flat terrain well within the established two southbound lanes.  Most people in the know (like me) would just bypass it on Yermo Road if there was a hint of a possible delay.  My understanding is that the people bypassing the station was the main instigator for why the location was changed.

Same reason they moved the Truckee one. It was extremely easy to bypass it by driving a mile on local streets. Now, it's still possible to bypass the new one, just involves a bit more planning and the first sign isn't until you're past the point of no return.

Which brings me back to "what is the point of stopping passenger vehicles?"  I have yet to find a suitable explanation why this is still a thing despite every other state in the country moving away from checking anything other than commercial vehicles (thinking Ag heavy Florida most prominently).  It isn't as though the commercial inspection station on I-15 doesn't have a dedicated separation away from the passenger vehicles. 

This assumes the passenger side is even staffed. Most of the time, the passenger side in Truckee is unstaffed. I have never driven through it when it is staffed and I'm through relatively often. Needles had one person just waving people in multiple car lanes through when I was there in November.

What's funny is that this Ag Station could be easily bypassed by taking US 95 south to Searchlight and then NV 164/Nipton Rd west.

I mean, why go all the way to I-40?

Depends on where you are going.  A lot of destinations like Coachella Valley and San Diego would probably benefit from laddering southward.  From I-40 using Kelso Road, NOTR, Amboy Road and CA 62 is a great back way to get to I-10 unmolested by traffic.  For me, Nipton Road/NV 164 is a very viable option.

[cahwyguy]

I seem to remember reading that at one point Governor Sisolak (when he was in office) talked directly to Governor Newsom about this. If that didn't get the ball rolling on anything, I doubt anything would.

Maybe as CAHWY Guy said there's something going on behind the scenes. Hopefully that's the case.

If I see anything widening related, I capture it for my site. This is what I have:

Temporary Lines / Route 15 Widening near Primm NV

In December 2021, it was reported that a new plan to ease the traffic congestion that builds up to the L.A. area following weekend getaways to Las Vegas was announced. The shoulder portion of a five-mile stretch of southbound I-15 between the Nevada state line and the California Food and Agriculture checkpoint will be converted for use as an extra lane during peak hours, California Gov. Gavin Newsom and Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak said during a joint news conference to announce the plan. Traffic is currently reduced from three lanes to two lanes through the area, before later opening back up to three lanes. The project will use the freeway's shoulder area to keep the freeway open to three lanes of traffic during peak hours on Sundays and Mondays. The project is estimated to cost $12 million and is expected to be completed by the end of summer 2022.
(Source: KTLA, 12/6/2021)

In February 2023, it was reported that the widening of I-15 from Barstow to the Nevada state line, a project that was anticipated to complete nearly one year ago (2022), was still lingering. As of February 2023, the most noticeable progress made is the conversion of the interstate's shoulder into a third lane for one mile near the state line.
(Source: KLAS, 2/24/2023)

In March 2023, the CTC was given notice of, and in May 2023, the CTC approved, an amendment to the 2022 STIP that programs $1,629,000 in Interregional Improvement Program (IIP) funds to a new STIP project – Interstate 15 (I-15) Dynamic Cantilever Extinguishable Message Signs (EMS) project (PPNO 08-3020Y; EA 1N121) on southbound I-15 between the California Department of Food and Agriculture Mountain Pass Station and the California/Nevada State Line in San Bernardino County, for the construction capital and construction support phases in Fiscal Year 2023-24. This project is a pilot project in San Bernardino County on southbound (SB) I-15 between the California Department of Food and Agriculture Mountain Pass Station and the California/Nevada State Line. The SB I-15 lanes at the California/Nevada State Line experiences recurring traffic congestion on Sundays, Mondays and during other major events, causing severe traffic delays for extended periods. The purpose of this pilot project is to install an electronic lane control system that informs motorists when the part-time shoulder is available to be used on SB I-15 between postmile 180.90 and 185.50.  This project will upgrade the signing to allow for part-time shoulder use as needed and will increase visibility.  The scope of this project is comprised of installing cantilever EMS, flashing beacons, cameras, and additional roadside signs within project limits to improve operational conditions. When the I-15 Dynamic Cantilever EMS project (PPNO 3020Y) is completed, the outside shoulder will be used as a part-time third lane on this segment of SB I-15.  The part-time shoulder use will be limited to Sunday and Monday peak hours.  The EMS and cameras proposed in the project are Transportation Management System equipment. There is no roadway improvement nor striping involvement in this project.  Once this pilot project is complete, peak congestion travel times will be monitored for three years and compared to the already completed traffic simulation analysis that evaluated the travel time savings resulting from this operational improvement.  If the travel time savings are consistently achieved, these improvements will become permanent.  If the project benefits are not achieved, the EMS, flashing beacons, cameras, and additional roadside signs will be removed using other funds.
(Source: March 2023 CTC Agenda, Agenda Item 2.1b.(4); May 2023 CTC Agenda, Agenda Item 2.1a.(5))

In May 2023, the CTC approved the following allocation for a locally-administered STIP project: $1,629,000. 08-SBd-015 180.9/185.5. PPNO 08-3020Y; ProjID 0823000023; EA 1N121. I-15 Dynamic Cantilever Extinguishable Message Signs. In San Bernardino County, on I-15, from California Department of Food and Agriculture Mountain Pass Station, to the California / Nevada State Line.  Install dynamic cantilever Extinguishable Message Signs (EMS) to improve operational conditions along southbound I-15, between Post Miles (PM) 180.9 and 185.5. CEQA - CE, 11/08/2022; Re-validation 01/27/2023 NEPA - CE, 11/08/2022; Re-validation 01/27/2023. Right of Way Certification: 01/19/2023 Concurrent STIP Amendment for Action under Resolution 22S-13; May 2023. Allocation: CON ENG $380,000; CONST
$1,249,000.
(Source: May 2023 CTC Agenda, Agenda Item 2.5c.(4))

In August 2023, it was reported that, according to Caltrans officials, the I-15 part-time southbound travel lane is set to open for use starting Sunday, August 27, 2023. The expanded access will allow travelers to use the right shoulder past the NV/CA border every Sunday and Monday from 10 a.m. to 8 p.m.
(Source: News 3 Nevada, 8/27/2023)

As an aside, I listened to a really interesting interview on the Freeway Exit podcast with the person who was terminated from CalTrans for calling them on sneaking in a widening. I know folks here won't necessarily agree, but it was an interesting interview to listen to in order to understand how some mindsets are changing: https://www.kpbs.org/podcasts/freeway-exit/bonus-blowing-the-whistle-on-widening-freeways Description: "Former Caltrans executive Jeanie Ward-Waller shares her story of getting fired after speaking out against a freeway project near Sacramento. She says Caltrans is driven by a "mindless impulse to add more freeway lanes," and that reform-minded people at the agency are often sidelined and dismissed."

Based on what we read here, there is not always a mindless impulse to add more freway lanes.

[Plutonic Panda]

"Mindless impulse to add more lanes."  that about sums you up. The constant backups. The mayor of Vegas pleading to add a third lane. But adding lanes here would be a mindless impulse.