New York

[kalvado]

Kalvado, have you ever contacted NYS DOT re: that signing situation on I-87 approaching the Thruway?

Local newspaper did. DOT responded with in-stock bullshit - compliant to regulations, no plans to modify.
That is one of very poorly designed local spots in  general, signage just makes it worse.
Upd. I missed the narrative, bottom line still the same
https://blog.timesunion.com/gettingthere/ramp-to-thruway-a-place-for-near-misses/1511/

This might be a case where even though the signing is technically correct, it does not convey the needed info in an intuitive form for the average driver and could be improved..............And just as I've often said about traffic signal installations, just because it meets minimum standards, that doesn't necessarily make it a good quality design.

Sorry to chime in a little late on this ....

One idea that I discussed with a friend of mine who is a professional traffic engineer with his own consulting company is the idea of peer review.  Essentially, engineers should take a business trip to an unfamiliar part of the country and drive the roads and try to figure out if everything makes sense.  So if you brought an engineer from Mississippi to drive the Northway and he were confronted with the setup to the Thruway, would he think it was intuitive?  Would he think that some more signage is necessary, especially as in almost anywhere you would normally keep left to stay on I-87.  Would he be able to recommend something appropriate?  (In all cases, likely yes).

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be plans to do something like this at all.

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

It was my understanding that NYSDOT had conferences of some sort in the different regions, bringing all of whatever level of management or whatever NYSDOT together in Utica or Buffalo or Albany, depending on the quarter or year. I can't help but think when a traffic engineer goes to Utica they can't help but notice the weirdness with To Region 2's signing practices

I still think there is a helicopter parking somewhere by DOT... I just cannot find it.

[Jim]

Re: the Northway SB at the Thruway, I think a lot of the problems stem from the fact that the stay on I-87 SB traffic is forced into a single lane that splits immediately into two on the ramp.  I assume there's some good reason, for the setup, but it doesn't make sense to me.  Why not keep the rightmost lane exit only to continue on I-87 SB, and the next lane split at the ramp with the option of continuing to the I-90 EB ramp or taking the I-87 SB ramp?  This would especially help with those cars that try to pull in at the last moment to try to get ahead of slow trucks.  Maybe someone on here who knows more about the engineering of such things can set me straight and has an idea why the current configuration is better.

[kalvado]

Re: the Northway SB at the Thruway, I think a lot of the problems stem from the fact that the stay on I-87 SB traffic is forced into a single lane that splits immediately into two on the ramp.  I assume there's some good reason, for the setup, but it doesn't make sense to me.  Why not keep the rightmost lane exit only to continue on I-87 SB, and the next lane split at the ramp with the option of continuing to the I-90 EB ramp or taking the I-87 SB ramp?  This would especially help with those cars that try to pull in at the last moment to try to get ahead of slow trucks.  Maybe someone on here who knows more about the engineering of such things can set me straight and has an idea why the current configuration is better.

It had been designed the way you describe. If you look carefully, ramp is wide enough for 2 lanes, and actually did carry 2 lanes. However, it turned out as a high accident rate setup - design speed of 55 MPH turned out to be overly optimistic. Instead of redoing the ramp or finding some other option to slow the traffic,  a "temporary" single lane was adopted. Redoing that ramp, per @Rothman, is not even being discussed.

[Mccojm]

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

I'm just a principal engineer technician but I oversee r10 construction ADA compliance and now training for work zone inspection, I'd love to visit the other 10 regions and see how things are done differently.

[mrsman]

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

I'm just a principal engineer technician but I oversee r10 construction ADA compliance and now training for work zone inspection, I'd love to visit the other 10 regions and see how things are done differently.

It would be nice if they allowed it.  There is definitely some benefit from having "fresh eyes" look at something.

As others have said, a TOTSO on a major interstate highway IMO is so egregious that the warning for it should begin 5 miles up the road, notwithstanding that there are other exits still ahead.  Imagine if 5 miles ahead of the Northway/Thruway interchange you see signs for: "I-87 SOUTH New York RIGHT LANE 5 MILES AHEAD" and such a sign would repeat every mile along the way.  That would get attention.

It's frustrating when the public is telling the DOT that this is something that they find confusing and more helpful signage would be useful and their response is, we don't think it's confusing and it follows all of the standards.  The whole point of the signage is to guide motorists, and if the existing signage is not adequately guiding motorists then the signage needs to be replaced and/or supplemented.  Individual complainers can get ignored, but it's really audacious to dismiss a complaint that comes from the transportation reporter of a local newspaper, as is the case here.  [An article from the Times-Union was linked upthread, check my post from yesterday.]

[kalvado]

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

I'm just a principal engineer technician but I oversee r10 construction ADA compliance and now training for work zone inspection, I'd love to visit the other 10 regions and see how things are done differently.

Wow, I didn't know NYSDOT doesn't allow engineer's travel. How far can you go from the office without facing penalties - 10 miles? or less?

[Mccojm]

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

I’m just a principal engineer technician but I oversee r10 construction ADA compliance and now training for work zone inspection, I’d love to visit the other 10 regions and see how things are done differently.

Wow, I didn't know NYSDOT doesn't allow engineer's travel. How far can you go from the office without facing penalties - 10 miles? or less?

My post may have been misleading, engineers definitively travel to other regions especially for state wide meetings and seminars. I’m not high up enough in engineer chain of command or level of importance to go on these work related trips. Essentially my title doesn’t warrant needing to visit other regions, my supervisor may go though. Most intrastate travel has been limited to zoom/ webinar meetings to avoid covid infections this year as well. As far as penalty goes, there’s really no penalty but you better have good reason to travel to other regions. I know upstate the regions are rather large and can take a few hours to traverse compared to r10 of just Nassau and Suffolk. Being from region 10, we really don’t ever have a reason to venture outside of Nassau/ Suffolk except on short spurts of GCP, Belt Pkwy, 495 and few state routes just over the queens border to travel to other locations in Nassau. In my 7.5 years with R10, I’ve only ventured out of R10 once last April to r8 Hawthorne TMC for inspector training (all “new” construction hires from r8,10,11 went to this).My coverage area is all DOT roads from queens/ Nassau border to the East end forks of orient and montauk. In R10, Most people are restricted to the main office building in hauppauge or if In field such as construction or maintenance, they’re limited to the construction contract they’re assigned to or maintenance residency they work out of and the roads they cover; it may be different in the other regions of upstate though.

[kalvado]

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

I'm just a principal engineer technician but I oversee r10 construction ADA compliance and now training for work zone inspection, I'd love to visit the other 10 regions and see how things are done differently.

Wow, I didn't know NYSDOT doesn't allow engineer's travel. How far can you go from the office without facing penalties - 10 miles? or less?

My post may have been misleading, engineers definitively travel to other regions especially for state wide meetings and seminars. I'm not high up enough in engineer chain of command or level of importance to go on these work related trips. Essentially my title doesn't warrant needing to visit other regions, my supervisor may go though. Most intrastate travel has been limited to zoom/ webinar meetings to avoid covid infections this year as well. As far as penalty goes, there's really no penalty but you better have good reason to travel to other regions. I know upstate the regions are rather large and can take a few hours to traverse compared to r10 of just Nassau and Suffolk. Being from region 10, we really don't ever have a reason to venture outside of Nassau/ Suffolk except on short spurts of GCP, Belt Pkwy, 495 and few state routes just over the queens border to travel to other locations in Nassau. In my 7.5 years with R10, I've only ventured out of R10 once last April to r8 Hawthorne TMC for inspector training (all "new"  construction hires from r8,10,11 went to this).My coverage area is all DOT roads from queens/ Nassau border to the East end forks of orient and montauk. In R10, Most people are restricted to the main office building in hauppauge or if In field such as construction or maintenance, they're limited to the construction contract they're assigned to or maintenance residency they work out of and the roads they cover; it may be different in the other regions of upstate though.

Thing is, most people on this forum don't see a 100-200 mile trip as something unusual. It is nice when your employer pays for the mileage, but pretty often it is just a fun ride. Looking at road features as you drive by is just another fun part.


On the same token.. .Last weekend I passed a maintenance area on a Thruway,  just south of Albany (exit 22 or so). There were two green signs prepared for installation: "TAP New York"  What those are about??   

[vdeane]

On the same token.. .Last weekend I passed a maintenance area on a Thruway,  just south of Albany (exit 22 or so). There were two green signs prepared for installation: "TAP New York"  What those are about??   

I'm curious about that myself, though I'm not sure they're being prepared for installation... they've been sitting there for YEARS.

My first thought relates to TAP/CMAQ grant projects, but somehow I don't think that's it.

[cl94]

GSV shows some of those signs there as far back as 2015. The "TAP New York" sign has been there since 16 or 17. I think that might just be NYSTA's sign graveyard.

[Michael]

A couple days ago, I saw this article on Syracuse.com:
New I-690 on-ramp ends need for red light on highway during NY State Fair

It's kind of disappointing to see the light go since a rare Interstate quirk was so close to me.

[NYCDOT]

At bridge and tunnel crossings, is there any standard as to whether or not a control city is an actual city or the bridge/tunnel name? I'm unsure where to look for info about this.

[SignBridge]

The place to find this information is the Federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. (MUTCD) A control city is just that. The next control city along the route. That idea probably works fine in rural areas in the south and west, but not so well in a metroplex like NYC, where bridge and tunnel names might be more helpful in some cases.

[Buffaboy]

There's a new building proposed in Buffalo that would be built within the NY-5 E/I-190 N on-ramp loop... while I think it's an interesting idea, my gut tells me that there will be opposition from the DOT. Any thoughts?

Also, are there any other examples of projects like this around the US/internationally? I haven't found any.

[seicer]

Internationally? Lots. Many countries resisted the urge to do wholesale clearing of neighborhoods for freeways and ramps. There are many underused spaces that could be repurposed for other uses.

[Mccojm]

Engineers should just visit other regions in NYS for starters.

I'm just a principal engineer technician but I oversee r10 construction ADA compliance and now training for work zone inspection, I'd love to visit the other 10 regions and see how things are done differently.

Wow, I didn't know NYSDOT doesn't allow engineer's travel. How far can you go from the office without facing penalties - 10 miles? or less?

My post may have been misleading, engineers definitively travel to other regions especially for state wide meetings and seminars. I'm not high up enough in engineer chain of command or level of importance to go on these work related trips. Essentially my title doesn't warrant needing to visit other regions, my supervisor may go though. Most intrastate travel has been limited to zoom/ webinar meetings to avoid covid infections this year as well. As far as penalty goes, there's really no penalty but you better have good reason to travel to other regions. I know upstate the regions are rather large and can take a few hours to traverse compared to r10 of just Nassau and Suffolk. Being from region 10, we really don't ever have a reason to venture outside of Nassau/ Suffolk except on short spurts of GCP, Belt Pkwy, 495 and few state routes just over the queens border to travel to other locations in Nassau. In my 7.5 years with R10, I've only ventured out of R10 once last April to r8 Hawthorne TMC for inspector training (all "new"  construction hires from r8,10,11 went to this).My coverage area is all DOT roads from queens/ Nassau border to the East end forks of orient and montauk. In R10, Most people are restricted to the main office building in hauppauge or if In field such as construction or maintenance, they're limited to the construction contract they're assigned to or maintenance residency they work out of and the roads they cover; it may be different in the other regions of upstate though.

Thing is, most people on this forum don't see a 100-200 mile trip as something unusual. It is nice when your employer pays for the mileage, but pretty often it is just a fun ride. Looking at road features as you drive by is just another fun part.


On the same token.. .Last weekend I passed a maintenance area on a Thruway,  just south of Albany (exit 22 or so). There were two green signs prepared for installation: "TAP New York"  What those are about??   

Sounds to me like they're  old tapan zee bridge signs in storage  after they were removed

[Rothman]

There's a new building proposed in Buffalo that would be built within the NY-5 E/I-190 N on-ramp loop... while I think it's an interesting idea, my gut tells me that there will be opposition from the DOT. Any thoughts?

Also, are there any other examples of projects like this around the US/internationally? I haven't found any.

I think it's not a smart idea (parking?)  Makes me think of the cloverleafs in MA that are horrifically expensive to upgrade, partially due to the fact development goes right up to the ramps.

[kalvado]

There's a new building proposed in Buffalo that would be built within the NY-5 E/I-190 N on-ramp loop... while I think it's an interesting idea, my gut tells me that there will be opposition from the DOT. Any thoughts?

Also, are there any other examples of projects like this around the US/internationally? I haven't found any.

I think it's not a smart idea (parking?)  Makes me think of the cloverleafs in MA that are horrifically expensive to upgrade, partially due to the fact development goes right up to the ramps.

I can think of a walkway from the parking/transit going under the ramp. Cheaper than a driveway (but deliveries...)
Reconstructions would be interesting, though, thats a good point.

[Flyer78]

Based on https://www.buffalorising.com/2020/09/big-reveal-douglas-planning-residential-building/ the levels below the onramp will be parking, residential levels are even with the "grass" in the image.

The city owns the lot - would DOT have to approve?

[Rothman]

Based on https://www.buffalorising.com/2020/09/big-reveal-douglas-planning-residential-building/ the levels below the onramp will be parking, residential levels are even with the "grass" in the image.

The city owns the lot - would DOT have to approve?

Even getting access to a lot within a loop would be a challenge, especially if you need a ramp down to parking.

[Mr. Matté]

Based on https://www.buffalorising.com/2020/09/big-reveal-douglas-planning-residential-building/ the levels below the onramp will be parking, residential levels are even with the "grass" in the image.

The city owns the lot - would DOT have to approve?

Even getting access to a lot within a loop would be a challenge, especially if you need a ramp down to parking.

There's existing streets below the (elevated) loop ramp already.

Checking that area (road edge below/road edge above, obviously not taking into account for any sidewalks or building setbacks), it's about 1.1 acres of land on which a building can be constructed. It can probably be done, where there's a will and a politically-connected contractor, there's a way.

[NJRoadfan]

One would ask "why?" to building inside of a loop ramp in the area. Its Buffalo, not Manhattan, and land isn't in short supply there. There is literally a SEA of parking lots in the immediate vicinity that could be redeveloped into high density mixed use development.

[hotdogPi]

literally a SEA of parking lots

A literal sea of parking lots would hold boats, not cars.

[odditude]

literally a SEA of parking lots

A literal sea of parking lots would hold boats, not cars.

they look like cars to me...   

[webny99]

literally a SEA of parking lots

A literal sea of parking lots would hold boats, not cars.

they look like cars to me...   

Very well played!