News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

New York

Started by Alex, August 18, 2009, 12:34:57 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

cl94

Quote from: roadman65 on November 12, 2014, 12:09:12 PM
I was just recently looking at Arkansastravelguy's FB photos of his NYC road trip, and saw that NYCDOT now conforms to MUTCD standards on Park Avenue between 57th and 45th Streets where in the past one four way tower signal existed at all intersections without even pedestrian signals.

I guess that story about the fact the MTA Metro North Tunnels are beneath Park Avenue preventing normal installations was hogwash as his photos show regular NYC assemblies on mast arms.  The usual double guy but painted green both the poles and the signal heads now grace Park Avenue in that 12 block section.

It's not hogwash.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)


SignBridge

Well that only took about 50 years for all the agencies involved to work out. That's about how long the city has had pedestrian signals.........

cl94

Yeah, but not shocking. You have Metro North (under both FRA and state jurisdiction) and the city, all of whom have to be in agreement before anything gets done. They probably had to go through Washington to get the FRA approval for any modifications to the tunnel.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

roadman65

I am surprised that originally they did not adopt the rest of NY's signaling practice like they did on Staten Island at the end of the Korean War Vets Parkway by using NYS span wire there.

The poles could have been placed on the sidewalk of the side street off of the tunnel roof deck and strung across Park Avenue to the other opposing corner.  It would not be the first time span wire used in urban areas as Baltimore has had them even after MD went mast arms outside the city limits there.  Even in the Business District Baltimore had the span wiring where most cities usually do not like the clutter of overhead wiring.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

cl94

Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2014, 09:24:55 AM
I am surprised that originally they did not adopt the rest of NY's signaling practice like they did on Staten Island at the end of the Korean War Vets Parkway by using NYS span wire there.

The poles could have been placed on the sidewalk of the side street off of the tunnel roof deck and strung across Park Avenue to the other opposing corner.  It would not be the first time span wire used in urban areas as Baltimore has had them even after MD went mast arms outside the city limits there.  Even in the Business District Baltimore had the span wiring where most cities usually do not like the clutter of overhead wiring.

New York has had a pretty strict "no overhead wiring" policy in densely-settled areas for over a century. This included trolley wires and electrical lines.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

roadman65

Than how did Westchester, Rockland,  and even Nassau fit all into this with their many populated areas?  Also Staten Island uses span wires on Richmond Avenue at the Korean War Vets Parkway terminus and that is part of NYC, even though some want to secede and someday we may have that vote to become their own city independent of the other 4 boroughs.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

cl94

Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2014, 11:31:11 AM
Than how did Westchester, Rockland,  and even Nassau fit all into this with their many populated areas?  Also Staten Island uses span wires on Richmond Avenue at the Korean War Vets Parkway terminus and that is part of NYC, even though some want to secede and someday we may have that vote to become their own city independent of the other 4 boroughs.

New York City doesn't use overhead wires for anything in the densest areas. Never said anything about the state.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Duke87

Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2014, 09:24:55 AM
I am surprised that originally they did not adopt the rest of NY's signaling practice like they did on Staten Island at the end of the Korean War Vets Parkway by using NYS span wire there.

The poles could have been placed on the sidewalk of the side street off of the tunnel roof deck and strung across Park Avenue to the other opposing corner.

Wouldn't have been that simple. The tunnel runs under Park Ave all the way up to Harlem. The rest of the way up, there already were signals mounted on the sidewalks, off the edge of the tunnel, and yes, it wasn't a problem. South of 57th street, though, the tunneling fans out as the tracks lead into Grand Central. From GCT itself to 57th street, the yard occupies the entire two blocks between Lexington and Vanderbilt Avenues. In this area, Park Avenue and all of the buildings on either side of it are built on air rights over the Metro-North (ex-NY Central) trackage. There is no place to stick a pole without hitting tunnel along that stretch of Park Ave, period.

For some perspective here, this is a picture of the yard north of Grand Central from shortly after it opened:

All of those tracks are still there, buried under everything else later built above it. Park Ave runs smack down the middle of all that. Off to the side of the tunnel? Hah!
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

roadman65

Interesting, I did not know that the yard goes for 14 blocks.  That explain why from 57th north the signals were never a problem.

However, if memory serves me correct, before the tower poles were erected was there not the original Red and Green signal heads hanging from a mast arm on two corners?  You know the one's that did not have yellow, but both a simultaneous red and green to denote the orientation change from green to red.  Those tower lights were only erected in the mid or early 80's and before that my memory is vague on what was there previously.

Also at 46th Street the mast arms were still there even in the late 80's housing the red-yellow-green, but nonetheless over the deck that houses the street and buildings beside it.  That was not vague, but vivid to me as I remember it was not typical NYC double guy arms, but classic arms you see on some street poles.  Sorry I am not that familiar with art or design terms.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

empirestate

Quote from: Duke87 on November 14, 2014, 08:46:26 PM
For some perspective here, this is a picture of the yard north of Grand Central from shortly after it opened:

All of those tracks are still there, buried under everything else later built above it. Park Ave runs smack down the middle of all that. Off to the side of the tunnel? Hah!

I wonder if you can trace the yard footprint at all from aerial photos today?

cpzilliacus

N.Y. Times: M.T.A. Expected to Raise Fares and Tolls

QuoteSubway and bus fares will rise again in March. The only questions are by how much and for which riders.

QuoteWhen the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board members meet this week, they are expected to discuss proposals for a 4 percent increase in fares and tolls across the system's trains, buses, tunnels and bridges. The fares are scheduled to rise every two years as part of the authority's long-term revenue plans, but details of the upcoming increase are still being worked out. Riders will have a chance to weigh in at public hearings next month.



Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cl94

Per wgrz.com :

US 219 closed north of NY 242
NY 400 closed in its entirety
NY 5 closed between Tifft St and I-190
I-290 closed east of Exit 6, ramps to/from south at WT closed

You know it's bad when Buffalo closes every road
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

roadman65

Interesting question about cross traffic during the Macy's Parade on Thanksgiving Day.  As many of us know that the route of the Parade is over 3 miles from Uptown to Midtown which is well over 30 blocks, thus preventing cross traffic where the parade goes.

Isn't there places every so many blocks that stop the parade for a few moments to allow traffic to cross the route which I imagine is what gives NBC the chance to have dance routines in Herald Square every so many parade acts that you see aired on TV?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

froggie

Given how huge of an attraction the parade is, I can't imagine there's a lot of cross-traffic during that time.  The parade has also been an institution for over 80 years so it's not like folks don't know it's happening and can't plan around it.

Duke87

Whenever NYC hosts parades they close off all the minor the cross streets but keep the major ones open for cross traffic. Basically when the light turns red the parade stops and bikes/peds/cars get to cross. The parade resumes forward progress when the light turns green again. Although in practice there will be cops to assist in directing traffic so the phases of the signal are not necessarily strictly followed.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

cl94

Quote from: Duke87 on November 28, 2014, 05:18:56 PM
Whenever NYC hosts parades they close off all the minor the cross streets but keep the major ones open for cross traffic. Basically when the light turns red the parade stops and bikes/peds/cars get to cross. The parade resumes forward progress when the light turns green again. Although in practice there will be cops to assist in directing traffic so the phases of the signal are not necessarily strictly followed.

It's not like the parade is constantly moving. Each float/band/act stops in front of Macy's to do their thing for NBC viewers at home. They can get stuff across when everything is stopped for the performances, as long as floats don't block the box.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

cl94

Clearview alert: One of the Exit 1 advances on I-490 EB was replaced with a new Clearview sign at some point within the past year or two. Don't know how recently, as I'm rarely on that stretch of highway, especially going EB, but I figured I'd mention it as I saw it today on my way to drive the Inner Loop one last time.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

WNYroadgeek

Has to have been no later than 10/2012, it's on Street View: http://goo.gl/maps/ME3yC (and considering it's right after the Thruway Exit 47 toll plaza, it's almost certainly NYSTA's doing).

cl94

Quote from: WNYroadgeek on November 29, 2014, 11:30:08 PM
Has to have been no later than 10/2012, it's on Street View: http://goo.gl/maps/ME3yC (and considering it's right after the Thruway Exit 47 toll plaza, it's almost certainly NYSTA's doing).

As I said, I'm never on that side of Rochester, so "new" means "within past 3 years". I do know that there's a bunch of relatively-new signage between I-390 and I-590, inclusive. Some of that has gone up within the past year.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

cu2010

Most certainly a NYSTA job. The obnoxiously-huge lettering (and the super-tiny "1/4 MILE" text underneath) disproportionate to the rest of the sign gives it away.

NYSTA has always had letter sizing issues, it just wasn't as obvious until they started using Clearview.
This is cu2010, reminding you, help control the ugly sign population, don't have your shields spayed or neutered.

route17fan

I have a picture of the sign going back to August, 2008. :)
John Krakoff - Cleveland, Ohio

machias

Quote from: cl94 on November 29, 2014, 08:01:36 PM
Clearview alert: One of the Exit 1 advances on I-490 EB was replaced with a new Clearview sign at some point within the past year or two. Don't know how recently, as I'm rarely on that stretch of highway, especially going EB, but I figured I'd mention it as I saw it today on my way to drive the Inner Loop one last time.

I'm pretty sure that sign is around six to eight years or so old. It's one of the first Clearview signs I ever saw in New York State and it turned up right when the Thruway Authority just started using Clearview.  I'm certain it's an NYSTA sign.

machias

Quote from: cl94 on November 29, 2014, 11:34:55 PM
Quote from: WNYroadgeek on November 29, 2014, 11:30:08 PM
Has to have been no later than 10/2012, it's on Street View: http://goo.gl/maps/ME3yC (and considering it's right after the Thruway Exit 47 toll plaza, it's almost certainly NYSTA's doing).

As I said, I'm never on that side of Rochester, so "new" means "within past 3 years". I do know that there's a bunch of relatively-new signage between I-390 and I-590, inclusive. Some of that has gone up within the past year.

I just drove through Rochester this evening and I noticed that Region 4 has put up a lot of new signs on NY 390, I-490, NY 590 and NY 104 over the past couple of years and they are really well done. The habit of left justifying the route shield on the sign at the exit ramp seems to have been dropped and they're using control destinations where they hadn't before (for example, "Greece" on NY 104 WB at NY 590).

I also like the larger Series D post interchange mileage signs on Interstate 490.

While I was out there I drove the entire Inner Loop for the last time. :)


route17fan

Do locals still refer to the Inner Loop as 'the moat'?
John Krakoff - Cleveland, Ohio

mrsman

Quote from: cl94 on November 28, 2014, 07:57:07 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 28, 2014, 05:18:56 PM
Whenever NYC hosts parades they close off all the minor the cross streets but keep the major ones open for cross traffic. Basically when the light turns red the parade stops and bikes/peds/cars get to cross. The parade resumes forward progress when the light turns green again. Although in practice there will be cops to assist in directing traffic so the phases of the signal are not necessarily strictly followed.

It's not like the parade is constantly moving. Each float/band/act stops in front of Macy's to do their thing for NBC viewers at home. They can get stuff across when everything is stopped for the performances, as long as floats don't block the box.

I can't find the article now, but I believe that 57th Street and 49/50 Street are kept open for this purpose.  Intermittent openings so traffic can cross through.

Before the pedestrianization of Broadway, 42nd Street was also opened, but now part of the parade uses 42nd between 7th and 6th.

Even with the openings, it'll probably be easier to make a wide detour far away from the parade area, if you need to go from east to west in the city.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.