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New York

Started by Alex, August 18, 2009, 12:34:57 AM

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Buffaboy

I'm disappointed in the Governor and Ryan. They are making an embarrassment to anyone who knows anything about highway capacity and transport engineering. It's no wonder that the DOT hasn't talked to the media.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy


cl94

NYSDOT is keeping mum because the media is ready to pounce on them. They're doing another study to see what happens (read: 30 was never in the plans and the models they spent 2 years building have to be redone). This afternoon a little after 6, the westernmost mile or two was at LOS E from my educated estimation after driving on it. Normally at that time, it's C (maybe D). We're already seeing the effects. From some of the reports I've heard, it's already at F during the peak hour. I-190 and I-290 have been much worse than normal this week, possibly because people are avoiding NY 198. Keep in mind that I-290 is down to 4 lanes, so it was getting to LOS E-F on a daily basis at the construction zone before this nonsense started.

Basically, people who live in the neighborhood want the thing gone and have wanted it gone since it was built. The politicians, relying on their donations, will do anything required to appease them. Just about everybody who actually uses the thing wants it to stay because removing/altering it will probably add 15+ minutes to crosstown travel while congesting everything and making traffic a nightmare everywhere but the one neighborhood the expressway runs through. I'll also mention that the people who want the expressway gone also want the (much-used) light rail system to be removed because "nobody rides it".

As I/we predicted, the speed limit change isn't doing much more than making it more dangerous. People still go 60, but now we have a very small amount willingly going 20-30 (no exaggeration). I think there's already been at least one accident and I expect more. That's what happens when you have people who don't understand traffic flow theory pulling the strings. Even Robert Moses was better than most of these people.

New York politics are corrupt and always have been. Buffalo has long been one of the most crooked towns in the country. I'm not shocked one bit and I'm quite glad that I'll likely be leaving this state in 7 months for grad school so I don't have to see any of this nonsense actually happen before my eyes.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Buffaboy

It looks like you've done your research on all of this. I am not a fan of the local political scene on either side of the aisle either. On a personal note I'm from the area but attend college in the Mohawk Valley. Did you complete concentration-specific courses in your sophomore or junior year if I may ask?
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

Mergingtraffic

And the decision to lower the speed limit by not 5 but a whole 20mph....how do they know that'll solve the problem? The decision was made within hours and those signs were made quickly. Amazing. Idk why the gov chose this accident over others. Plus stoplight sand speed bumps too. Definitely not thinking of the region as a whole
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

cl94

Quote from: Buffaboy on June 04, 2015, 09:00:32 PM
It looks like you've done your research on all of this. I am not a fan of the local political scene on either side of the aisle either. On a personal note I'm from the area but attend college in the Mohawk Valley. Did you complete concentration-specific courses in your sophomore or junior year if I may ask?

I took stuff early and I'm graduating a semester early. I've already taken just about every transportation course UB offers. Concentration-specific stuff is mainly taken senior year thanks to the wonderful SUNY gen ed requirements that ABET happens to hate. Taking the last one in the fall.

What's funny is that, not one month ago, someone from the MPO did a presentation in my traffic operations class. Spent 20 minutes showing us the NY 198 model and what would happen if any one of the things these people want were implemented. Heck, the old (2005) study posted online has it being bad and traffic in the area has only gotten worse as Elmwood Village has become more hip.

Do any of the NYSDOT people here know if there's a gag order over there? My agency is keeping quite the low profile during all of this and I haven't heard anything from the normally attention-seeking Region 5.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

cl94

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on June 04, 2015, 09:24:51 PM
And the decision to lower the speed limit by not 5 but a whole 20mph....how do they know that'll solve the problem? The decision was made within hours and those signs were made quickly. Amazing. Idk why the gov chose this accident over others. Plus stoplight sand speed bumps too. Definitely not thinking of the region as a whole

Buying votes. Expressway runs in the middle of the only wealthy and predominantly-white neighborhood in the city. Full of political donors. Politicians have been drooling at this opportunity for years to get their hands on donor money.

Do note that, for the past few years, there has been a car going off the road almost daily in the vicinity of Buffalo that hits a person or building. This is not an isolated incident by any means. The day after this happened, a kid was hit in a small town in southern Erie County. Certainly isn't anybody jumping on the bandwagon to do traffic calming or modifications NY 16 (which really needs them, especially in that area).
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Buffaboy

#881
Quote from: cl94 on June 04, 2015, 09:54:24 PM
Quote from: Buffaboy on June 04, 2015, 09:00:32 PM
It looks like you've done your research on all of this. I am not a fan of the local political scene on either side of the aisle either. On a personal note I'm from the area but attend college in the Mohawk Valley. Did you complete concentration-specific courses in your sophomore or junior year if I may ask?

I took stuff early and I'm graduating a semester early. I've already taken just about every transportation course UB offers. Concentration-specific stuff is mainly taken senior year thanks to the wonderful SUNY gen ed requirements that ABET happens to hate. Taking the last one in the fall.

What's funny is that, not one month ago, someone from the MPO did a presentation in my traffic operations class. Spent 20 minutes showing us the NY 198 model and what would happen if any one of the things these people want were implemented. Heck, the old (2005) study posted online has it being bad and traffic in the area has only gotten worse as Elmwood Village has become more hip.

Do any of the NYSDOT people here know if there's a gag order over there? My agency is keeping quite the low profile during all of this and I haven't heard anything from the normally attention-seeking Region 5.

I wonder if it would look good if I took other courses at UB not offered at my school just to "add to my resume," or actually learn more skills that employers would look for.

With regards to what I bolded, we may be witnessing political corruption right before our eyes.


Quote from: cl94 on June 04, 2015, 10:00:39 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on June 04, 2015, 09:24:51 PM
And the decision to lower the speed limit by not 5 but a whole 20mph....how do they know that'll solve the problem? The decision was made within hours and those signs were made quickly. Amazing. Idk why the gov chose this accident over others. Plus stoplight sand speed bumps too. Definitely not thinking of the region as a whole

Buying votes. Expressway runs in the middle of the only wealthy and predominantly-white neighborhood in the city. Full of political donors. Politicians have been drooling at this opportunity for years to get their hands on donor money.

Do note that, for the past few years, there has been a car going off the road almost daily in the vicinity of Buffalo that hits a person or building. This is not an isolated incident by any means. The day after this happened, a kid was hit in a small town in southern Erie County. Certainly isn't anybody jumping on the bandwagon to do traffic calming or modifications NY 16 (which really needs them, especially in that area).

It would be like the complete opposite of the 33 dig of the 1960s, in a way.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

cl94

I've been keeping mum publicly for two reasons: can't fix stupid and I don't want to lose my job. The Buffalo News just posted a story about how the 2005 study recommended a "tree-lined parkway". There were a couple key details they left out or minimized:

*Old study recommended 4 lanes, not 2
*Article was critical of importance NYSDOT placed on traffic flow. Believe it or not, that is the main concern.
*Stuff has changed for the most recent model

The most recent model shows the facility failing if the current grade separations are eliminated. As the surface roads already fail at each crossing due to surrounding intersections, this is quite true. The best model I saw, IMHO, gave the three middle interchanges quadrant roadways on the south side. Roundabouts at NY 198, signals at the surface road. Easily had the best flow. In doing this, there was an uninterrupted pathway along the creek and north side of the roadway. I think there was an unsignalized superstreet or something similar at Lincoln Parkway, as well. Kept through traffic moving while slowing things down. Interchanges at each end were unchanged.

Honestly, nobody will suggest this, but I'd be in favor of capping it east of Delaware Avenue and keeping the expressway at a decent speed, with quadrant roadway intersections from there west. They're already looking at capping NY 33 and this would allow them to really rebuild Humboldt Parkway.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Buffaboy

Quote from: cl94 on June 04, 2015, 10:24:23 PM
I've been keeping mum publicly for two reasons: can't fix stupid and I don't want to lose my job. The Buffalo News just posted a story about how the 2005 study recommended a "tree-lined parkway". There were a couple key details they left out or minimized:

*Old study recommended 4 lanes, not 2
*Article was critical of importance NYSDOT placed on traffic flow. Believe it or not, that is the main concern.
*Stuff has changed for the most recent model

The most recent model shows the facility failing if the current grade separations are eliminated. As the surface roads already fail at each crossing due to surrounding intersections, this is quite true. The best model I saw, IMHO, gave the three middle interchanges quadrant roadways on the south side. Roundabouts at NY 198, signals at the surface road. Easily had the best flow. In doing this, there was an uninterrupted pathway along the creek and north side of the roadway. I think there was an unsignalized superstreet or something similar at Lincoln Parkway, as well. Kept through traffic moving while slowing things down. Interchanges at each end were unchanged.

Honestly, nobody will suggest this, but I'd be in favor of capping it east of Delaware Avenue and keeping the expressway at a decent speed, with quadrant roadway intersections from there west. They're already looking at capping NY 33 and this would allow them to really rebuild Humboldt Parkway.

I don't blame you for being reticent; it's a tough position to be in (in more ways than one).

Capping is a great idea, but it seems the state is tied up for funding ATM...
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

Buffaboy

I saw some "road porn" on the 90 today. They were widening it between exit 50 and 51, something I never really expected to see.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

cl94

Quote from: Buffaboy on June 05, 2015, 07:29:23 PM
I saw some "road porn" on the 90 today. They were widening it between exit 50 and 51, something I never really expected to see.

If by "widening", you mean reconfiguring an entrance ramp. They're just adding a short auxillary lane for entering traffic at 50A and removing the striping forcing entering traffic at Exit 50 to merge over. Far less than what needs to be done, but it'll get the area to no worse than LOS E for the entire day. Now, there are a couple hours it's at F. They know very well what needs to be done, but we're probably a good 15-20 years away from that. Do note that the new Cleveland Drive bridge can probably just fit 10 lanes underneath it.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Roadgeek Adam

I biked along the 198 today from Delaware Park. A little late after rush hour to get the right shots, but:


New 30 mph signage.


One of those not cordoned off sections.


VMS noting about the 30 mph speed limit at Parkside Drive.


The very small memorial for Maksym S. on the Jersey barrier of all things.

Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

cl94

Found another Erie County CR shield this morning. Along NY 5 in the Town of Evans. Only one I know of in the 400s and the road is quite minor.

Until now, most of the shields I knew of are/were on relatively major roads. This changes the whole game. You never know where you could find one of these things and there's no way in hell one person could drive every mile of Erie County's immense system.

Which raises another question: did Erie County once sign every county route? I understand the shields in Tonawanda (former state route) and what was once in Hamburg (major connector highway), but this road goes nowhere.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Buffaboy

Quote from: cl94 on June 08, 2015, 07:21:13 PM
Found another Erie County CR shield this morning. Along NY 5 in the Town of Evans. Only one I know of in the 400s and the road is quite minor.

Until now, most of the shields I knew of are/were on relatively major roads. This changes the whole game. You never know where you could find one of these things and there's no way in hell one person could drive every mile of Erie County's immense system.

Which raises another question: did Erie County once sign every county route? I understand the shields in Tonawanda (former state route) and what was once in Hamburg (major connector highway), but this road goes nowhere.

That's pretty crazy. The only time I have seen a county shield is somewhere around Springville or East Otto, which may actually fall in this category of "unaccounted" shields, if that's what you're implying.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

cl94

Quote from: Buffaboy on June 08, 2015, 11:21:18 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 08, 2015, 07:21:13 PM
Found another Erie County CR shield this morning. Along NY 5 in the Town of Evans. Only one I know of in the 400s and the road is quite minor.

Until now, most of the shields I knew of are/were on relatively major roads. This changes the whole game. You never know where you could find one of these things and there's no way in hell one person could drive every mile of Erie County's immense system.

Which raises another question: did Erie County once sign every county route? I understand the shields in Tonawanda (former state route) and what was once in Hamburg (major connector highway), but this road goes nowhere.

That's pretty crazy. The only time I have seen a county shield is somewhere around Springville or East Otto, which may actually fall in this category of "unaccounted" shields, if that's what you're implying.

The one on NY 240 north of Springville is well-known
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: cl94 on June 08, 2015, 07:21:13 PM
Found another Erie County CR shield this morning. Along NY 5 in the Town of Evans. Only one I know of in the 400s and the road is quite minor.

Until now, most of the shields I knew of are/were on relatively major roads. This changes the whole game. You never know where you could find one of these things and there's no way in hell one person could drive every mile of Erie County's immense system.

Which raises another question: did Erie County once sign every county route? I understand the shields in Tonawanda (former state route) and what was once in Hamburg (major connector highway), but this road goes nowhere.

CR 512 (Electric Avenue) in Blasdell is still signed, which heads to Ridge Road in Lackawanna.



Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

Buffaboy

Wow. I've driven by Electric many times in my life but have never been down it. I'll have to head over there sometime this week.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

Roadgeek Adam

#892
Quote from: Buffaboy on June 09, 2015, 12:10:21 PM
Wow. I've driven by Electric many times in my life but have never been down it. I'll have to head over there sometime this week.

That's where it's fun, you search around, you never know where you find them. Right now I have:

CR 30 (NY 240) in Glenwood
CR 41 (Versailles Plank Road) in Evans
CR 51 (McKinley Parkway) in Hamburg
CR 118 (Colvin Boulevard) in Tonawanda (<500 feet from my place)
CR 307 (Kenmore Avenue) in Buffalo
CR 477 (Delamater Road) in Derby
CR 512 (Electric Avenue) in Blasdell
CR 580 (Ellicott Creek Road) in Tonawanda (Two of them; as well as a remnant NY 356 reference marker at the west end)

CR 11 (East River Road) in Grand Island (status unknown - when I was on CR 11 in 2008, there was no sign of it.)
CR 370 (Powers Avenue) in Armor is gone.

Those are the statuses I know.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

cl94

CR 51 is gone and has been for a while.

There's at least one on East River Road in Grand Island as of last August.

Unless there's one hiding somewhere on a road I missed, there are NONE in the towns bordering Genesee and Wyoming Counties, Clarence, Lancaster, Cheektowaga, Elma, or Aurora.

Forgot about the Colvin one-I know I've seen it before. I'm rarely south of Buffalo, so I knew nothing about most of the other ones
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: cl94 on June 09, 2015, 12:39:03 PM
CR 51 is gone and has been for a while.

There's at least one on East River Road in Grand Island as of last August.

Forgot about the Colvin one-I know I've seen it before. I'm rarely south of Buffalo, so I knew nothing about most of the other ones

I suspected the CR 51 shield might have been gone. It was standing in 2008, but was not in Street View. I was in Hamburg on Friday and forgot to go check for it while doing other things.

Yeah, I meant East River Road. For some reason, I put West River Road, which isn't even correct. When Alps and I were on it in 2008, we couldn't find it, far as I remember.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

cl94

Ransom Rd. My Flickr has a picture https://flic.kr/p/oX2ocU
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

cl94

Where is the one on Kenmore Avenue? I've certainly been on it enough to have likely seen it
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: cl94 on June 09, 2015, 02:21:40 PM
Where is the one on Kenmore Avenue? I've certainly been on it enough to have likely seen it

Just after NY 5. In front of 71 Kenmore.



Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

cl94

Still, it raises a question: was stuff once posted regularly? If I were the DPW, I'd just make a new set of public numbers and post those with the pentagon, but certain areas at least seem to have a concentration of the shields that makes me wonder  (Tonawanda/Grand Island, Hamburg/Evans)
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: cl94 on June 09, 2015, 03:59:03 PM
Still, it raises a question: was stuff once posted regularly? If I were the DPW, I'd just make a new set of public numbers and post those with the pentagon, but certain areas at least seem to have a concentration of the shields that makes me wonder  (Tonawanda/Grand Island, Hamburg/Evans)

I don't know if our generation is really going to know. I will note, Erie County still uses the current number system, even if unsigned for the most part.

As you pointed out this morning, it would take forever to drive every CR in the county. What I've found I've done by bicycle for the most part (except CR 41).
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13



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