Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'

[kphoger]

Just came back from Amman, which is packed to the brim with roundabouts...

American drivers are angels and scholars

Perfect addition to the discussion!
If you plopped 200 American drivers down in Amman, how many of them do you think would have a traffic accident within the first week?
That's what I mean by incapable.

If you plopped 200 off-the-street americans into an every day life of third world country, how many of them would make it till the end of the week? Doesn't make people incapable or unfit for life.

Jordan has 151 accident/year  per 100k vehicles vs 13 in US - about 12 times higher accident rate. Of course, NASCAR would have an even higher accident rate - and even more skilled drivers.. But for last  10 year I mostly drive to get from point A to point B in one piece...

Perhaps 'incapable' is the wrong word.  Inept.  Incompetent.  I don't mean to imply that we Americans can't learn how to drive in unusual circumstances.  Just that we don't know how to do so.

[jamess]

Just came back from Amman, which is packed to the brim with roundabouts...

American drivers are angels and scholars

Perfect addition to the discussion!
If you plopped 200 American drivers down in Amman, how many of them do you think would have a traffic accident within the first week?
That's what I mean by incapable.

We had a car and did not have a collision.

However, the local drivers did their best to hit us.

[kalvado]

Just came back from Amman, which is packed to the brim with roundabouts...

American drivers are angels and scholars

Perfect addition to the discussion!
If you plopped 200 American drivers down in Amman, how many of them do you think would have a traffic accident within the first week?
That's what I mean by incapable.

If you plopped 200 off-the-street americans into an every day life of third world country, how many of them would make it till the end of the week? Doesn't make people incapable or unfit for life.

Jordan has 151 accident/year  per 100k vehicles vs 13 in US - about 12 times higher accident rate. Of course, NASCAR would have an even higher accident rate - and even more skilled drivers.. But for last  10 year I mostly drive to get from point A to point B in one piece...

Perhaps 'incapable' is the wrong word.  Inept.  Incompetent.  I don't mean to imply that we Americans can't learn how to drive in unusual circumstances.  Just that we don't know how to do so.

People learn to respond to issues they face. If you don't expect F-16s dropping payload on you, you don't learn to duck and cover when you hear a jet coming. If the roads are plowed, you don't need to keep your ice driving techniques top notch. If the roads are maintained, you may forget what you do if a wheel explodes at high speed. All of these "don't need" may cost you a life elsewhere - or occasionally even closer to home.

US has a crash rate which is not impressive on EU standards, but pretty good on worldwide scale. That tells me that there is a certain ecosystem which keeps travel conditions - combination of roads and road conditions, control systems, vehicle conditions, driver training, enforcement and so on - on some level which allows for a reasonably safe environment. Not ideal, maybe - but given car-oriented design driving in US has to be a learnable  skill, not a rare talent.

All the complains  about "how bad other drivers are!" to me sound as if it is the complainer who need a refresher course. Yes, average driver in US is not a NASCAR driver. But when someone starts feeling NASCAR star on a general purpose interstate, they become the trouble, not mere mortals around

[jakeroot]

A few pages ago, I talked about a ramp meter that WSDOT was installing at the endlessly-modified Steptoe Roundabout in Richland, WA. It finally went live on Tuesday the 13th. Image of the meter below. Perhaps the only ramp meter in Eastern Washington. Funny thing is, it's not a ramp at all, just a random approach to a roundabout that's bogging the roundabout down during rush hour.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/article221355170.html

[tradephoric]

Reports that a woman was struck as she attempted to cross a roundabout near St. Cloud State University on Saturday.  I knew this roundabout sounded familiar as another pedestrian was struck and killed at the roundabout in October 2017:

SUV Collides With St. Cloud Woman In Roundabout
http://www.kvsc.org/news-detail/suv-collides-with-st-cloud-woman-in-roundabout-12-10-2018/10218/

Driver in St. Cloud roundabout fatally hits pedestrian
http://www.startribune.com/driver-in-st-cloud-roundabout-fatally-hits-pedestrian/453113583/

[tradephoric]

Crazy video: Semi truck speeds straight through roundabout, slams into fountain
https://www.4029tv.com/article/crazy-video-semi-truck-speeds-strait-through-roundabout-slams-into-fountain/25570757

[kphoger]

Reports that a woman was struck as she attempted to cross a roundabout near St. Cloud State University on Saturday.  I knew this roundabout sounded familiar as another pedestrian was struck and killed at the roundabout in October 2017:

SUV Collides With St. Cloud Woman In Roundabout
http://www.kvsc.org/news-detail/suv-collides-with-st-cloud-woman-in-roundabout-12-10-2018/10218/

Driver in St. Cloud roundabout fatally hits pedestrian
http://www.startribune.com/driver-in-st-cloud-roundabout-fatally-hits-pedestrian/453113583/

And this is what crosswalks are for.

[kphoger]

Crazy video: Semi truck speeds straight through roundabout, slams into fountain
https://www.4029tv.com/article/crazy-video-semi-truck-speeds-strait-through-roundabout-slams-into-fountain/25570757

No injuries, good.

[tradephoric]

The safest roundabout in America?  I believe this is on 350th street outside Brayton, Iowa:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tree+in+the+Road/@41.5044893,-94.8350544,114m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87ecc76137280403:0xdd4c86f84005c37!8m2!3d41.5044189!4d-94.8350472

[kphoger]

If that snow freezes over, I could see problems for downhill drivers trying to avoid the tree.

[US71]

Crazy video: Semi truck speeds straight through roundabout, slams into fountain
https://www.4029tv.com/article/crazy-video-semi-truck-speeds-strait-through-roundabout-slams-into-fountain/25570757

Amity isn't very friendly to semi trucks to begin with (road wise).

[kphoger]

Crazy video: Semi truck speeds straight through roundabout, slams into fountain
https://www.4029tv.com/article/crazy-video-semi-truck-speeds-strait-through-roundabout-slams-into-fountain/25570757

Amity isn't very friendly to semi trucks to begin with.

I like the implication:  the driver was taking out his frustration on the town.

[US71]

If that snow freezes over, I could see problems for downhill drivers trying to avoid the tree.

WATCH OUT FOR THAT (AHH-AHH-AHH *THUD* ) TREE!

[tradephoric]

While that massive tree looks like it's in the middle of nowhere, 350th Street is only 0.5 mile from I-80.  If there is a major accident on I-80 between 690th St and 750th Street, then 350th Street would be a natural detour around it.

[US 89]

All four entrances are controlled by stop signs. Might as well ditch the whole thing for a 4-way stop anyway.

[MNHighwayMan]

The safest roundabout in America?

I'll do you one better. This is the safest roundabout in America.



(Not my picture.)

[kalvado]

All four entrances are controlled by stop signs. Might as well ditch the whole thing for a 4-way stop anyway.

Yeah, island is too small anyway, and in case of crash that tree may create an issue...

[kphoger]

While that massive tree looks like it's in the middle of nowhere, 350th Street is only 0.5 mile from I-80.  If there is a major accident on I-80 between 690th St and 750th Street, then 350th Street would be a natural detour around it.

For the roughly three drivers who would be (a) within reach of the previous exit, (b) able to look up an alternate route on their cell phone while stuck in traffic, and (c) willing to drive 7 miles down dirt and gravel?  Yeah, OK, sure, you betcha.



Also note the severe lack of roadway illumination. 
Carnage will ensue!!!

[MNHighwayMan]

Also note the severe lack of roadway illumination. 
Carnage will ensue!!!

Can you imagine if a semi went too fast through that stop sign and tipped over? We better put in a signal there instead.

[jakeroot]

Seattle has traffic circles at probably 30-40% of all otherwise-unsigned intersections, many at the bottom of very steep streets: http://bit.ly/2QO05cK  --  At least those intersections don't have to deal with too many large vehicles (which usually end up going over the middle or turning left against traffic at these circles instead).

Luckily for Seattle, snow isn't that common. But it does happen, and as virtually any google search can turn up, there are lots of crashes when it does. Usually into parked cars and fences. Lots of streets are fenced off. Probably the one I linked above would be, if I had to guess.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Meanwhile, back in the real world....
https://www.10tv.com/article/osu-study-roundabouts-could-be-key-stopping-distracted-driving

[kalvado]

Meanwhile, back in the real world....
https://www.10tv.com/article/osu-study-roundabouts-could-be-key-stopping-distracted-driving

he university research group studied driver response and behaviors and found no fatalities within Ohio roundabouts.

https://www.13abc.com/content/news/One-dead-two-seriously-hurt-in-Springfield-Twp-crash-420839683.html

High quality study with results disproved within 2 minutes.

[jakeroot]

Yeah I'm not sure where they were going with that study. I'm sure they found some reason to ignore the fatalities they did find.

[kalvado]

Yeah I'm not sure where they were going with that study. I'm sure they found some reason to ignore the fatalities they did find.

Looks like an MBA-type person lost someone in a distracted driving crash and now has an agenda.
They have a lot of media publications on distracted topic:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-23/texting-and-driving-is-still-a-minor-ding-with-car-insurers
https://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20181120/NEWS08/912325218/Road-design-can-combat-distracted-driving-crashes-Ohio-State-University-Fisher-C?utm_campaign=BI20181120BreakingNewsAlert&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_campaign=BI2018112
https://fisher.osu.edu/news/risk-institute-leads-nationwide-initiative-curb-distracted-driving

But I cannot find a single recent peer-reviewed publication from  Phil Renaud. Overall IMHO this is something like bad PR by a c-suit manager and borderline academic fraud. 

[ErmineNotyours]

Sage advice.  SR 203 and NE 124th St, Duvall, Washington.

Traffic roundabout near Duvall, WA by Arthur Allen, on Flickr