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Exit Tabs & Gore Signage

Started by SkyPesos, March 27, 2021, 12:26:48 AM

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jakeroot

Quote from: machias on April 07, 2021, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 07, 2021, 01:34:01 PM

Looking at states with rounded corners (NC, FL, formerly VA) the practice was always to raise the exit tabs. Oregon was unique in using non-rounded signs with raised exit tabs.

I don't think NY has ever raised the exit tabs and they've had rounded corners since the early 1970s. In fact, NY cuts off the bottom border of the exit panel and when they started doing left or right justified exit tabs, inset them in the width of the radius of the main sign panel.

I was specifically excluding NY from that list because I recognize their unique practice of using a three-sided exit tab slightly off-set from the edge. My list (NC, FL, VA) was referencing those states that use the standard exit tab design.


tolbs17


jakeroot

Quote from: tolbs17 on April 08, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
North Carolina has a couple of these but they are not common. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6873756,-77.9667921,3a,40.4y,145.77h,105.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCvmjurGCLEWugmtEuM7N_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

Northbound I-5 in Vancouver, WA has signs identical to this: fully rounded corners, inset exit tab, centered legend. As far as I knew, there were no others like this around the country, as none of the other states that use incremental panels like Washington also used inset exit tabs. So this is very cool!!

tolbs17

Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 08, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
North Carolina has a couple of these but they are not common. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6873756,-77.9667921,3a,40.4y,145.77h,105.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCvmjurGCLEWugmtEuM7N_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

Northbound I-5 in Vancouver, WA has signs identical to this: fully rounded corners, inset exit tab, centered legend. As far as I knew, there were no others like this around the country, as none of the other states that use incremental panels like Washington also used inset exit tabs. So this is very cool!!
The other one is here, and that's all I can find.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4346736,-78.065127,3a,36.8y,138.17h,92.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg2mqSXNQVuWQBzOuMaT3bg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

This opened in late 2015.

SkyPesos

I've been playing with the sign maker site for a bit (which uses the same exit tab style as Wisconsin/Michigan/Indiana for the edge option), and the more I look at it, the more I seem to prefer it over the Ohio/Missouri/Minnesota one. It connects with the main display so well to me, especially on the right side. Also, my opinion here still stands:
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 07, 2021, 05:44:07 PM
If Washington were to switch to a smaller exit tab for situations like diagrammatic and APL's, I could see them go the Michigan/Wisconsin approach (examples in the op). Similar to the full length ones they use, but smaller in size. Also my second favorite exit tab design.
Current full length exit tab:


Right sided exit tab (note the limitations on the site preventing a top right pointing exit only arrow):


Right sided exit tab (Fictional WA 520 exit numbers from this thread)

SkyPesos

New topic: I'm not sure how common this is, but what are some examples of exit gore signs that are not in the gore? I think they occur the most when the gore is not wide enough for a gore sign, but the more common solution to that is to use a narrower gore sign or eliminate the gore sign completely, instead of placing the gore sign on the side of the road instead. One example I found: I-70 exit 222B.

Big John


Scott5114

Quote from: Big John on April 18, 2021, 01:38:10 PM
This sign is fat from the gore point: https://goo.gl/maps/TShgXt7zRAfs4TEv7

That's pretty unusual. At the actual gore point, there's an Exit 168 B—C sign, since the ramp splits after the gore point. Then Exit 168B departs, and the sign you linked is where exit 168C curves away from the mainline. 
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

California does that these days.

NY 17 exit 111

The Thruway had a couple overhead gore signs; one was eliminated after some ramp work.  The NJ Turnpike used to use them everywhere.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SkyPesos

Quote from: vdeane on April 18, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
California does that these days.
Kind of wondering if they had a reason to move it back that far. The gore isn't even that narrow, and there was a previous, though smaller, gore sign at the front of it. Even though the new sign is the larger federal standard, I don't think that it needed to be moved back about 300 feet.

Scott5114

#60
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 18, 2021, 08:53:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 18, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
California does that these days.
Kind of wondering if they had a reason to move it back that far. The gore isn't even that narrow, and there was a previous, though smaller, gore sign at the front of it. Even though the new sign is the larger federal standard, I don't think that it needed to be moved back about 300 feet.

There's a whole thread about it in Pacific Southwest. Short story is Caltrans worker safety regs interacting oddly with federal MUTCD gore sign dimensions and Caltrans gore point designs caused weird shit to happen.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

mrsman

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2021, 09:01:44 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 18, 2021, 08:53:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 18, 2021, 08:44:56 PM
California does that these days.
Kind of wondering if they had a reason to move it back that far. The gore isn't even that narrow, and there was a previous, though smaller, gore sign at the front of it. Even though the new sign is the larger federal standard, I don't think that it needed to be moved back about 300 feet.

There's a whole thread about it in Pacific Southwest. Short story is Caltrans worker safety regs interacting oddly with federal MUTCD gore sign dimensions and Caltrans gore point designs caused weird shit to happen.

The scene in many cars driving on a CA freeway:

A - driver, B -passenger

A: Which exit should I take?
B: Exit 15
A: OK

A few minutes later...

B: There's a sign for exit 15
A: You mean it's the next exit?
B: No it's the exit we just passed
A:Why didn't you tell me that we were getting close to our exit before we passed it?  Now I have to go the next exit and turn back around.
B: I would have told you, but the sign for the exit came up after we had already passed the offramp.
A: How could that be possible?
B: This is La-La-Land.  Anything is possible.

:-D

JoePCool14

Quote from: Big John on April 18, 2021, 01:38:10 PM
This sign is fat from the gore point: https://goo.gl/maps/TShgXt7zRAfs4TEv7

The arrow on that one is also rather fat.

If you look back at the StreetView, the sign was actually replaced at some point, so I guess the placement was intentional.

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NJRoadfan

CalTrans style gore signs appear elsewhere too: https://goo.gl/maps/G5jG1SNwmX4tm5xC8

Of course misplaced or missing gore signs are usually a non-issue, but brain dead CalTrans still can't figure out how to put an exit tab on a sign. A bunch of exits don't even have gore signs in NJ, but guide signing is close enough to the off ramp that it isn't really needed.

SkyPesos

Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 19, 2021, 10:52:14 AM
CalTrans style gore signs appear elsewhere too: https://goo.gl/maps/G5jG1SNwmX4tm5xC8
Vertical gore signs aren't exclusively to Caltrans; a lot of other states use them extensively too. Caltrans just use a smaller size, which is the case with the horizontal one too. The image you sent is a standard vertical gore sign's size.

SkyPesos

#65
This will take a bit and is currently WIP, but here's a compilation of common exit tab types I found. All of them are one of the most recent designs for each state. Here's generally the three  things I look for to find the most recent exit tabs:
- No sign lighting
- 30'' tab height opposed to the old 24'' height
- Angled arrows inside the yellow 'EXIT ONLY' section

Attached exit tabs, rounded corners, own bottom border:
- Minnesota
- Missouri
- Nevada
- Ohio
- Pennsylvania

Attached exit tabs, square corners, own bottom border:
- Colorado
- Illinois (ISTHA)
- Virginia (Clearview digits)

Attached exit tabs, square bottom corners and rounded top corners, share bottom border with main panel:
- Arizona
- Idaho
- Indiana
- Maryland
- Massachusetts
- Michigan (Clearview digits)
- Tennessee
- Utah
- Wisconsin

Full length attached exit tabs, square bottom corners and round top corners, share bottom border with main panel:
- Illinois (IDOT)
- Washington (Centered)

Detached exit tabs, round corners:
-

Detached exit tabs, square corners:
- Florida
- North Carolina
- Oregon

If someone can help fill out one or more of the remaining states, that would be helpful.

froggie

Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 31, 2021, 11:19:53 PM
What are some states that still use centered exit tabs as opposed to right-aligned ones? I remember seeing a lot of exit signs with centered tabs on I-35 in southern Minnesota - I'm not sure if that state still uses them for new installations.

Responding late, but I've been told MnDOT no longer uses center-justified exit tabs.  If you still saw some along I-35, they were most likely signs that have not come up for replacement yet.

ran4sh

New York and South Carolina have exit tabs that, by SkyPesos' classification, could be a category "Attached exit tabs, square bottom corners and rounded top corners, share bottom border with main panel, tab offset from the edge of the main panel (with a rounded border corner on the main panel):"

- New York (Sign actually has rounded corners) https://goo.gl/maps/pM8qrmS5SdQ1jMzu5
- South Carolina (Sign corners are not round and extend outside border) https://goo.gl/maps/QgpG5B48YsQzn6Zf8
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

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JoePCool14

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 20, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
This will take a bit and is currently WIP, but here's a compilation of common exit tab types I found.

Here's an example you can use for Illinois (IDOT):
https://goo.gl/maps/3K8mXZJVau1xwSJH9

And here's an example you can use for ISTHA:
https://goo.gl/maps/gkVNjG7R9LYGraZ58

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JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

SSR_317

Just to put in my two cents on this topic, I DESPISE full-length exit tabs!!! Their use should be PROHIBITED by the MUTCD, in my no-so-humble opinion.

JoePCool14

Quote from: SSR_317 on April 28, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
Just to put in my two cents on this topic, I DESPISE full-length exit tabs!!! Their use should be PROHIBITED by the MUTCD, in my no-so-humble opinion.

Why such a strong opinion on them?

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JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
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Scott5114

Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 19, 2021, 10:52:14 AM
Of course misplaced or missing gore signs are usually a non-issue, but brain dead CalTrans still can't figure out how to put an exit tab on a sign.

They actually just figured it out, according to new standard plans that someone posted on here recently. The fix needed to allow exit tabs and follow Caltrans's weird wind loading requirements? Adding gusset plates like other states' standard gantries have had for decades.
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jakeroot

Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 28, 2021, 03:56:20 PM
Quote from: SSR_317 on April 28, 2021, 03:31:22 PM
Just to put in my two cents on this topic, I DESPISE full-length exit tabs!!! Their use should be PROHIBITED by the MUTCD, in my no-so-humble opinion.

Why such a strong opinion on them?

I'm sure he's convinced that of drivers rely solely on the right or left justification of exit tabs to determine their exit side.

In reality, most drivers know that most exits are on the right unless told otherwise.

kphoger

In reality, drivers just follow the arrow.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jakeroot

Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
In reality, drivers just follow the arrow.

Absolutely. Of course there is the whole issue of determining lane choice before an exit (where there are no arrows, except at APLs). But that is usually clear by the horizontal placement of the sign: off to the left? Probably a left exit. Off to the right? Likely a right exit.



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