Service Plazas on non-toll highways

[HighwayStar]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

All agreements between the Secretary and the State transportation department for the construction of projects on the Interstate System shall contain a clause providing that the State will not add any points of access to, or exit from, the project in addition to those approved by the Secretary in the plans for such project, without the prior approval of the Secretary. Such agreements shall also contain a clause providing that the State will not permit automotive service stations or other commercial establishments for serving motor vehicle users to be constructed or located on the rights-of-way of the Interstate System and will not change the boundary of any right-of-way on the Interstate System to accommodate construction of, or afford access to, an automotive service station or other commercial establishment. Such agreements may, however, authorize a State or political subdivision thereof to use or permit the use of the airspace above and below the established grade line of the highway pavement for such purposes as will not impair the full use and safety of the highway, as will not require or permit vehicular access to such space directly from such established grade line of the highway, or otherwise interfere in any way with the free flow of traffic on the Interstate System. Nothing in this section, or in any agreement entered into under this section, shall require the discontinuance, obstruction, or removal of any establishment for serving motor vehicle users on any highway which has been, or is hereafter, designated as a highway or route on the Interstate System (1) if such establishment (A) was in existence before January 1, 1960, (B) is owned by a State, and (C) is operated through concessionaries or otherwise, and (2) if all access to, and exits from, such establishment conform to the standards established for such a highway under this title.

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

[jmacswimmer]

I can think of various rest areas (not service areas) in other places that require exiting the highway and that are accessible to surface road traffic. A rest area on I-75 near Fort Myers requires exiting onto Daniels Parkway. A rest area on I-40 in Duplin County, North Carolina, is located in the median but requires exiting the highway and using a surface street to access the facility.

^ The DE-1 rest area at Smyrna is located just off an exit north of town on US-13, as opposed to being on the mainline. US-13 traffic can access it.

The new Western New York Welcome Center is off I-190 exit 19 on Grand Island.

(E-ZPass users get some sort of break on the toll as long as they re-enter the Turnpike within a certain amount of time)

My understanding is it removes the penalty that would otherwise cause I-95 thru traffic stopping at the service plaza to effectively "double-pay" at the I-295 toll plaza (when they'll already be paying at the mainline toll plaza a couple miles south of exit 102).  There's also signs up approaching both toll plazas instructing cash-payers to get a receipt if stopping at the service plaza.

[hbelkins]

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

As for the WK Parkway's service area, that route was never an interstate. And the WK Parkway was originally a 140-mile slog through mostly rural areas, with few services and widely-spaced exits. The service plaza there made sense, and really still does despite more exits being built and more services popping up at Leitchfield, Beaver Dam, Central City, and Princeton. Hopefully, when that segment becomes an interstate -- and given Kentucky's penchant for getting the designation on its former toll roads, it's bound to happen -- the plaza will be grandfathered in.

[vdeane]

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

As for the WK Parkway's service area, that route was never an interstate. And the WK Parkway was originally a 140-mile slog through mostly rural areas, with few services and widely-spaced exits. The service plaza there made sense, and really still does despite more exits being built and more services popping up at Leitchfield, Beaver Dam, Central City, and Princeton. Hopefully, when that segment becomes an interstate -- and given Kentucky's penchant for getting the designation on its former toll roads, it's bound to happen -- the plaza will be grandfathered in.

Didn't Congress pass a bill to make it I-369 or something?

[andrepoiy]

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

That is true. I remember once when travelling in the US, and we stopped on a NY Thruway Service Plaza McDonald's, we discovered that the Iced Coffee there is like $2 more expensive than at a regular McDonald's.

As for gas prices, ONRoute (service plazas on Highway 401 and 400) gas stations here in Ontario are often like 10-20 cents more expensive per litre than a regular gas station.

Some ONRoute restaurants do have a drive-thru though.

[HighwayStar]

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

As for the WK Parkway's service area, that route was never an interstate. And the WK Parkway was originally a 140-mile slog through mostly rural areas, with few services and widely-spaced exits. The service plaza there made sense, and really still does despite more exits being built and more services popping up at Leitchfield, Beaver Dam, Central City, and Princeton. Hopefully, when that segment becomes an interstate -- and given Kentucky's penchant for getting the designation on its former toll roads, it's bound to happen -- the plaza will be grandfathered in.

You may not consider them an advantage, but many do.
Fuel prices are higher because reservation prices are higher ie. customers are willing to spend more for the convenience of getting fuel right on the route because it is easy and they are often not familiar with the area. Clearly that is an advantage to them.
Restaurants having "limited menus" and not accepting coupons is really not a problem for most customers. People just want something fast and easy to fill the hole, no one is stopping for a gourmet meal at the McDonald's no matter how big the damn menu is or how many coupons they will accept. And again, prices being higher reflects reservation prices being higher, because people are willing to pay for that convenience.
The lack of a drive through is really not a problem for most long haul travelers, the kind that benefit most from service plazas. There is (thankfully) no such thing as a drive through bathroom, so provided so much as one person in the car needs that particular amenity you have to get out anyway. I also prefer self serve soda fountains rather than having the drive through kid give me 3/4 cup of ice, but that is maybe just me. For similar reasons being able to order from the parking lot is frankly stupid in the context of a service plaza, getting out to stretch your legs and grab food is a benefit, not a burden.
If you want to get off an exit and fight surface street traffic so you can go through a regular McDonald's drive through and save 50 cents on a Mcdouble with last Sunday's coupon, you are more than welcome to. But many travelers would prefer the service plaza model.

[HighwayStar]

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

That is true. I remember once when travelling in the US, and we stopped on a NY Thruway Service Plaza McDonald's, we discovered that the Iced Coffee there is like $2 more expensive than at a regular McDonald's.

As for gas prices, ONRoute (service plazas on Highway 401 and 400) gas stations here in Ontario are often like 10-20 cents more expensive per litre than a regular gas station.

Some ONRoute restaurants do have a drive-thru though.

It is true, and that proves my point that service plazas are a benefit to the traveling public.

[jmacswimmer]

They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus.

Some ONRoute restaurants do have a drive-thru though.

I recall at least one of the MassPike service plazas having a drive-thru for McDonald's.

Meanwhile, the Delaware House has a standalone Starbucks (which I think was added sometime after the plaza reconstruction) across the parking lot from the main building, and it has a drive-thru.

But I-95/Conn Tpk. at Milford takes the cake here - side-by-side drive thru's for McDonald's & Dunkin (with a 3rd lane currently unused).

(Point being, drive-thrus do seem to be slowly finding their way into busier service plazas.)

[CtrlAltDel]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. At the very least, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Roadgeekteen]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. At the very least, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

How would service plazas destroy the competition? It is still private businesses in the service plaza.

[CtrlAltDel]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. At the very least, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

How would service plazas destroy the competition? It is still private businesses in the service plaza.

It's pretty much unheard of to have both, say, Shell and Mobil at a service plaza, but it's essentially par for the course at exits.

[HighwayStar]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. I mean, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

The current system does not work well, travelers are forced off the freeway to do things that they could easily do on the freeway purely because of lawsuits filed by people now long dead. Its an inconvenience that serves no purpose at all.
That the current system allows for any more or less competition than that one would is highly dubious. How would it not be "allowing for competition" to have service plazas on the highways that lease their facilities to the highest bidder in a competitive bid every 3 years or so? You have competition for the real estate (which is not significantly different from the competition for real estate near a desirable exit now) and you would still have the competition from off highway businesses (which would be a good deal higher off the toll roads as exits tend to be more plentiful). If anything there would be more competition and certainly more traveler choices.

[jmacswimmer]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. At the very least, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

How would service plazas destroy the competition? It is still private businesses in the service plaza.

And, as noted upthread, the higher food/fuel prices typically found in service plazas can also serve to maintain competition (those who prefer convenience will stop there, those who prefer lower prices will exit).

Case in point:  sometimes I'll stop at the Maryland or Chesapeake Houses to fuel up when I just want to get home already, other times I'll get off at MD exit 109/DE exit 1 (and then combine getting gas with shunpiking the Delaware Turnpike )

It's pretty much unheard of to have both, say, Shell and Mobil at a service plaza, but it's essentially par for the course at exits.

Prior to reconstruction, both the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses had Exxon & Sunoco at opposite ends of the plaza (they both only have Sunoco now - speaking of, anyone notice how Sunoco seems to be the gas provider at a high percentage of northeast service plazas?)

[CtrlAltDel]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. I mean, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

The current system does not work well, travelers are forced off the freeway to do things that they could easily do on the freeway

Just because another system might work better doesn't mean that the current one doesn't work well. Having to get off the highway to get gas is simply not a problem of any significance whatsoever.

How would it not be "allowing for competition" to have service plazas on the highways that lease their facilities to the highest bidder in a competitive bid every 3 years or so?

First, I don't think concession contracts are renegotiated anywhere near that often, and second, even if they were, that doesn't allow for competition for the buyer at the point of sale, which is the important part. That reservation pricing you pointed out is a clear sign that the motorist is losing out. And so, whatever advantages service plazas may have, they are not enough given that the alternative is not problematic in the slightest.

[HighwayStar]

I believe the rule is freeways that were planned and constructed as interstates after 1960 can't have service plazas.

It's not so much a rule as a law:

United States Code, Title 23, Chapter 1, Section 111, Subsection a:

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.

I can't say that I agree. The current system works well and allows for competition. I mean, having to exit the Interstate to get gas is hardly shooting ourselves in the foot.

The current system does not work well, travelers are forced off the freeway to do things that they could easily do on the freeway

Just because another system might work better doesn't mean that the current one doesn't work well. Having to get off the highway to get gas is simply not a problem of any significance whatsoever.

How would it not be "allowing for competition" to have service plazas on the highways that lease their facilities to the highest bidder in a competitive bid every 3 years or so?

First, I don't think concession contracts are renegotiated anywhere near that often, and second, even if they were, that doesn't allow for competition for the buyer at the point of sale, which is the important part. That reservation pricing you pointed out is a clear sign that the motorist is losing out. And so, whatever advantages service plazas may have, they are not enough given that the alternative is not problematic in the slightest.

The current one does not work well, its a pain. And even then the standard should not be acceptable mediocrity because we are stuck with an outdated law from the 60's.
I could care less how it is done now, the way it should be done as part of implementing this is with an auction every 3 years (perhaps on a rotation so the disruption is minimal), same way the government auctions the airwaves. The way it is done now is of zero consequence because the entire point is that we should be doing things differently.

"doesn't allow for competition for the buyer at the point of sale, which is the important part" that is economic nonsense. "Competition at the point of sale" does not exist in most situations if you define it that way. There is no "competition at the point of sale" when you are in line at McDonald's, you can't order a Whopper at that point, or a Frosty, or a roast beef sandwich. But economists know that is irrelevant since if you wanted any of those things you would have entered another establishment. Competition at the point of sale is entirely irrelevant. The same is true for the service plazas, the motorist is free to get off at an exit if they don't like what is offered at the service plazas, I have done this on the toll roads before, as have millions of other people. Offering a more convenient option does not eliminate competition.

"And so, whatever advantages service plazas may have, they are not enough given that the alternative is not problematic in the slightest"
The alternative is problematic, to say it is not is simply false. It is certainly less convenient to exit for services than have them provided in a service plaza. But more importantly, there are no meaningful disadvantages so there is no reason not to do this. The only reason it was not done in the first place (it was part of many plans) was because lawsuits and lobbying from special interest groups enacted a law to their benefit at the expense of everyone else.
The advantages are clear

• More convenient
• More choices for motorists
• Revenue positive for the state rather than revenue negative like a normal rest area
• Arguably safer than a normal rest area due to the presence of businesses and others

We have nothing to loose and a fair bit to gain, its a pretty clear choice.

[1995hoo]

HighwayStar doesn't seem to understand the difference between opinion and fact, a failing he has in common with certain other forum members who think that because their opinion might have a kernel of truth, nobody can validly challenge it.

Except on closed-system toll roads, it's not inconvenient at all to exit for services, in my opinion, and in some cases I believe it can be more convenient to exit due to a lower concentration of traffic (vehicular and pedestrian) because not everyone is concentrated in a single, sometimes very large, sometimes poorly laid-out, parking area (one example that comes to mind is how on Florida's Turnpike bushes and palm trees sometimes obstruct the view of other service area traffic). You often have a much shorter walk to the restaurant or other business when you exit the highway than you do at a large, very busy service area.

With that said, I certainly know some people who prefer service areas. A female colleague of mine who grew up in northern Indiana says she always opts for the Pennsylvania/Ohio Turnpike route over other options like US-30 across Ohio precisely because it's what she calls "self-contained"–she knows there are reliable places to stop that will be reasonably busy so she need not be concerned about being isolated. As a middle-aged male I can't necessarily relate to how a younger single woman feels about that sort of issue, but I recognize the legitimacy of her concern even if I think it's a shame she denies herself the chance to see other routes. In other words, my opinion that finding new routes is a more important concern than using a road with service areas doesn't invalidate her opinion to the contrary.

[HighwayStar]

HighwayStar doesn't seem to understand the difference between opinion and fact, a failing he has in common with certain other forum members who think that because their opinion might have a kernel of truth, nobody can validly challenge it.

Except on closed-system toll roads, it's not inconvenient at all to exit for services, in my opinion, and in some cases I believe it can be more convenient to exit due to a lower concentration of traffic (vehicular and pedestrian) because not everyone is concentrated in a single, sometimes very large, sometimes poorly laid-out, parking area (one example that comes to mind is how on Florida's Turnpike bushes and palm trees sometimes obstruct the view of other service area traffic). You often have a much shorter walk to the restaurant or other business when you exit the highway than you do at a large, very busy service area.

With that said, I certainly know some people who prefer service areas. A female colleague of mine who grew up in northern Indiana says she always opts for the Pennsylvania/Ohio Turnpike route over other options like US-30 across Ohio precisely because it's what she calls "self-contained"–she knows there are reliable places to stop that will be reasonably busy so she need not be concerned about being isolated. As a middle-aged male I can't necessarily relate to how a younger single woman feels about that sort of issue, but I recognize the legitimacy of her concern even if I think it's a shame she denies herself the chance to see other routes. In other words, my opinion that finding new routes is a more important concern than using a road with service areas doesn't invalidate her opinion to the contrary.

I am well aware of the difference, there is no call for accusations to the contrary, and sorry but it is an objective fact that getting off the freeway is less convenient than a service plaza.

Where is the proof of that statement? The same thing some have already complained about, prices. The first rule of microeconomics is that prices are set by what a buyer will pay. Prices can only be as high as reservation prices warrant. So when we have a higher price for both food and gasoline at a service plaza versus the off highway options nearby the only logical conclusion is that reservation prices are higher for the food and gasoline at the service plaza, which since fast food and especially gasoline are both commodity goods, we must attribute to the convenience/experience of the service plaza as the factor at play. That is what the data tells me, it has nothing to do with my opinion or yours for that matter, but with the real world observed prices which everyone here seems to agree are higher.
Notice that this does not require that every consumer think they are more convenient, some apparently don't, but enough do that the reservation prices taken as a whole are higher.
Also note that this argument has nothing to do with costs, a mistake people frequently make in situations such as this. Even if we assume the cost of the service plaza goods is higher, perhaps due to contracts etc. that cost has nothing to do with the prices except to set a floor below which they cannot fall in the long run. Only the consumer reservation prices can can dictate the equilibrium price, and so if the costs are identical or higher for service areas the conclusion is the same, reservation prices must be higher for their goods and services.
Not a matter of opinion, only a matter of economics and data.

[1995hoo]

I am well aware of the difference, there is no call for accusations to the contrary, and sorry but it is an objective fact that getting off the freeway is less convenient than a service plaza.

....

It is not a "fact" at all other than in your opinion (that is, it's your opinion that it is a fact because you don't know what the difference between the two is). I'm not talking about your discussion about prices. I don't give a rat's arse about where something is cheaper or more expensive. I gave other reasons why I do not consider getting off the highway to be less convenient than stopping at a service plaza (assuming, of course, the services are right near the exit) and you, naturally, ignored all of them in favor of repeating your little tirade. (The fact that a lot of people stop at the service areas doesn't prove that they are more or less convenient–it just proves that some people prefer to stop there.)

It's a classic example of what I said about certain posters on here who know one or two things about an issue, consider themselves experts on a topic, and refuse to recognize the validity of any position that disagrees with their own.

[HighwayStar]

I am well aware of the difference, there is no call for accusations to the contrary, and sorry but it is an objective fact that getting off the freeway is less convenient than a service plaza.

....

It is not a "fact" at all other than in your opinion (that is, it's your opinion that it is a fact because you don't know what the difference between the two is). I'm not talking about your discussion about prices. I don't give a rat's arse about where something is cheaper or more expensive. I gave other reasons why I do not consider getting off the highway to be less convenient than stopping at a service plaza (assuming, of course, the services are right near the exit) and you, naturally, ignored all of them in favor of repeating your little tirade. (The fact that a lot of people stop at the service areas doesn't prove that they are more or less convenient–it just proves that some people prefer to stop there.)

It's a classic example of what I said about certain posters on here who know one or two things about an issue, consider themselves experts on a topic, and refuse to recognize the validity of any position that disagrees with their own.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't even attempt to explain exactly why someone considers it more convenient, because its almost beside the point. The fact is that the prices prove people do consider it more convenient. 

[CtrlAltDel]

Me:

[Roadgeekteen]

Why did my thread turn into this

[jmacswimmer]

Why did my thread turn into this

a kernel of truth

[HighwayStar]

Why did my thread turn into this

a kernel of truth

Don't blame me, I simply pointed out that they were a nice feature and as usual haters gonna hate.

[hbelkins]

And an unfortunate one at that, anyone who has driven the toll roads much knows that the one real advantage is the service plazas.
Had we not done what we normally do and shot ourselves in the face, we could have had an interstate network with full service plazas everywhere like the toll roads, and likely with some rent arrangement that would have provided additional funds for the upkeep of the highways themselves. Instead of being drains on state budgets, rest areas could have been contributors.

I don't consider them to be an advantage for travelers. In my experience, gas prices at the service areas are higher than in private establishments. The restaurants often have limited menus and don't take part in lots of franchise promotions such as sales, value menus, coupons, and in some cases, the prices are higher, too, than they would be at the same brand of restaurant located off of the freeway exits. They also don't have the convenience of drive-thrus. I'm not sure how the franchisees handle apps, now. I know that at most McDonald's locations, you can order in the app, park in the parking lot, and they'll bring your food out to you. Other restaurants offer the same feature.

As for the WK Parkway's service area, that route was never an interstate. And the WK Parkway was originally a 140-mile slog through mostly rural areas, with few services and widely-spaced exits. The service plaza there made sense, and really still does despite more exits being built and more services popping up at Leitchfield, Beaver Dam, Central City, and Princeton. Hopefully, when that segment becomes an interstate -- and given Kentucky's penchant for getting the designation on its former toll roads, it's bound to happen -- the plaza will be grandfathered in.

Didn't Congress pass a bill to make it I-369 or something?

Upon further review, I think you're right. I believe they did get a definite future interstate designation for the WK between the Pennyrile and the Natcher. (I still have trouble with calling the northern section of the Pennyrile 69 and the Natcher 165.) And the service plaza is just to the west of the Natcher interchange. I may have even expressed a thought about whether or not the service plaza would be grandfathered in.

If they're going to turn that segment of the WK into an interstate, it's illogical for the whole thing to I-65 not to be so designated.

[hbelkins]

People just want something fast and easy to fill the hole

I thought that was one of the reasons they're closing rest areas.