Service Plazas have many problems

Started by SMoon, September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM

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SMoon

 :ded:

I'm a new member, and not a truck driver. I just prefer driving over flying because I like to see the country, stop when I want, and try to find time to see the world's largest, tallest, oldest, whatever. In 2015 I drove 70/76 in Pennsylvania, wholly unaware it was a toll road. This last trip I stayed on I-90, as I was going from my home in NW Wyoming to New Hampshire. I didn't know it was toll either. Since when does the Eisenhower Interstate System cost? Nice way to run the poorer people off their own highways.  Anyway, I absolutely abhor the new system. Here's why:
1) It seems many of the billboards are gone. Yes they're ugly, but they're something to look at, they give you an idea what's "out there", what motels, restaurants, casinos, whatever are nearby. Plus, they keep a driver alert, like the old Burma Shave signs.
2) Since the billboards are gone, in places like upstate New York, a driver looks at trees and taillights. Driver might get drowsy.
3) The new "service plazas" are a huge paved parking lot with revenue grabbing facilities... but I have yet to find one that provides ANY shade, any place to actually rest. They're noisy and hot. Absolutely no way to take an hour nap. Some even had a two hour parking maximum.
4) So Drowsy Driver stops, gets a hamburger at the McDonald's drive through, and then he comes to the gas station. You see, you have to do it in that order. Either he has to eat in the car first, or set his hamburger down while he pumps gas while the burger gets cold. He can't go back to McDonalds because the plaza is one way. (I did, against the signs, because I got gas and wanted to wash my hands and get a drink)
5) And then, wholly unrested, Drowsy Driver is forced back on to the interstate.

The places called "Text stops" or just parking areas are better, quieter, although they lack a restroom.

The "real" rest stops like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Wyoming, etc have are lovely shady loops, with sometimes just a rest room, sometimes some information or vending machines, but they have shade, quiet areas, picnic tables, doggy areas, GRASS, birds, trees, sometimes billboard/displays about the area. They let you sleep in the car, overnight if needed. I was at one that had a bike trail leaving from it that went on for miles.

I got a very unsettled feeling driving the NY Thruway. I lost concept of where I was, the interstate is completely homogenous, just trees, no signs, so I didn't know where I was, nor could I get any inkling of what was beyond the trees, no signs told me Betty's Diner with Famous Blueberry Tarts was there, or a Navaho Casino, or a Howard Johnson's. It actually triggered a panic attack.

I have always loved the shaded loop rest areas. I actually do rest in them. At the right time of day one can find shadows from trees, and park there, open a window, kick back and take a 30 minute nap. I usually walk around the sidewalks and paths to help wake myself up (if there's hope) or stick my feet out the window and snooze awhile. That is completely impossible at the service plazas.

I want to know if this had been put to a vote. I absolutely cannot imagine anyone thinking it was a good idea.

When I was young, a toll road was a luxury, and a CHOICE. You could take the regular interstate, or chose a toll parkway and not contend with commercial vehicles or excessive exits. Now, people who drive a lot are going to have to take secondary roads so as not to have to pay tolls. The Eisenhower System was paid for by us all, with fuel taxes (and probably other taxes as well) Now those same taxpayers may not be able to use the system, and people like me WON'T use it anymore since I cannot stand the new system, and why the heck am I being charged for something I hate, didn't want, and provides drivers no safe place to rest??

Another consideration is the businesses that parasite off the interstate. No one is getting off to get gas, they just get it at a "plaza".

The whole thing is just one enormous greed grabbing ugly driver-unfriendly "upgrade."  I want to see the statistics to see if more drowsy drivers have had wrecks now that there's no easy place to rest.

Okay, vent over, but I'm still going to be writing some scathing letters.

S. Moon


Rothman

The major eastern toll roads predate the Interstate System.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

AlexandriaVA

#2
Yes. I suspect OP (welcome to the board) hasn't been to the East Coast before.

As mentioned, the toll roads predate the Interstate Highway System and are grandfathered in (same goes with the Chicago-area Interstate toll roads). The highways in question were built without IHS money.

The service plazas are also grandfathered in.

SEWIGuy

As for the actual resting, pull off the highway, find a park or shopping center with a shady parking lot, and take a nap. 

hbelkins

Every paper map I've ever seen differentiates between toll roads and free roads, even down to showing small differently-colored spots where there's a toll bridge on an otherwise-free route. I can't imagine planning a long-distance trip and not knowing one would encounter a toll facility along the chosen route.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SkyPesos


GaryV

Quote from: hbelkins on September 27, 2021, 11:51:26 AM
Every paper map I've ever seen differentiates between toll roads and free roads, even down to showing small differently-colored spots where there's a toll bridge on an otherwise-free route. I can't imagine planning a long-distance trip and not knowing one would encounter a toll facility along the chosen route.

Even the official highway map for Michigan, a state without any toll roads, has notes pointing to its toll bridges.

vdeane

Apparently the OP never actually thought to walk inside the service areas either, since he talks about the drive thru.  I suppose I'll just point out the obvious that eating while driving when drowsy is not a good idea.

Billboards have been illegal on the interstate system since forever; the grandfathered toll roads are actually some of the few places where they're visible.  Maybe he means the service signs?  But the Thruway still has them, just not for food or gas.

It's also probably worth pointing out that even regular rest areas out east often wouldn't be the quiet rest stops the OP wants due to traffic.  Plus not all states allow one to sleep in the car at a rest area.

Additionally, if the OP doesn't like a road lined by trees, he shouldn't drive in the southeast.  The interstates there make the Thruway look like wide open plains.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

renegade

Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Apparently the OP never actually thought to walk inside the service areas either, since he talks about the drive thru.  I suppose I'll just point out the obvious that eating while driving when drowsy is not a good idea.

Billboards have been illegal on the interstate system since forever; the grandfathered toll roads are actually some of the few places where they're visible.  Maybe he means the service signs?  But the Thruway still has them, just not for food or gas.

It's also probably worth pointing out that even regular rest areas out east often wouldn't be the quiet rest stops the OP wants due to traffic.  Plus not all states allow one to sleep in the car at a rest area.

Additionally, if the OP doesn't like a road lined by trees, he shouldn't drive in the southeast.  The interstates there make the Thruway look like wide open plains.
I would wager that the OP doesn't get out much.  Hanging out in rest areas, asleep or not, might get you molested.   :ded:
Don’t ask me how I know.  Just understand that I do.

US 89

Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Billboards have been illegal on the interstate system since forever; the grandfathered toll roads are actually some of the few places where they're visible.

Uh...what? I'm hard pressed to think of an interstate highway without billboards. They are certainly everywhere along the southern and western interstates I frequent, unless it's passing through a residential area or something.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 27, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
As for the actual resting, pull off the highway, find a park or shopping center with a shady parking lot, and take a nap.

A shady spot for an afternoon nap can generally be found at most of the service plazas on the New Jersey Turnpike (though not north of about Exit 11) and on the Garden State Parkway.  The Pennsylvania Turnpike plazas do not always have shade, but the two on I-95 in Maryland do.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

hotdogPi

Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Additionally, if the OP doesn't like a road lined by trees, she shouldn't drive in the southeast.  The interstates there make the Thruway look like wide open plains.

Fixed
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

webny99

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
I got a very unsettled feeling driving the NY Thruway. I lost concept of where I was, the interstate is completely homogenous, just trees, no signs, so I didn't know where I was, nor could I get any inkling of what was beyond the trees, no signs told me Betty's Diner with Famous Blueberry Tarts was there, or a Navaho Casino, or a Howard Johnson's. It actually triggered a panic attack.

The Thruway does need mileage-based exits and (especially) county line signs, I will hand you that.

But other than that, it's not much different than any other rural freeway. There's certainly not "no signs", and the service areas are well-signed. Until you get west of Utica, it passes through some really, really boring countryside, and given the nature of the road and how sparse the exits are, there's not much you can except NYSTA to do about making the local businesses more visible.

triplemultiplex

The Ladybird Johnson Highway Beautification Act limits the number and density of billboards on interstate highways.
This Wikipedia article is way more exhaustive than I care to dive into.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Beautification_Act
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

ErmineNotyours

I was surprised at the number of billboards in Montana compared with Washington, or maybe I'm just used to the billboards close to home.  Maybe some states are more lax about enforcing billboard bans.

SMoon

A- I am a SHE
B- I grew up in New Jersey
C- I have crossed the country more times than I could count, I just don't use interstates if I can help it. I've motorcycled it, driven it and walked a good part of it as well. Now I won't use interstates again.
D- They interstates I HAVE traveled were not toll roads, except a couple in NJ. I'm pushing sixty so perhaps I predate some of you.
E- You *could* be a little nicer. I didn't expect such unfriendly remarks.

Do you all think the plazas are a good idea? With no shade nor place to rest? Appalling idea. JMHO. I'm sticking to US highways.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

#17
Welcome to the forums.  I think there are a fair amount of interstates in the country that give you the feeling that you described in your OP, many of which aren't toll roads.  I-10 in the Florida panhandle is the first one that jumped to mind since there are so many southern pines that you can't see anything off the highway and get a sense of where you are so to speak. 

That said, I think you're getting some of the bristly reception only because when people do things and or go places that they didn't take the time to read up on, then have a negative experience, it's often quite self-inflicted.  I have friends who hated visiting a certain foreign country because they were unaware of certain cultural norms and in turn didn't appreciate things as much as they would had they done a little reading up.  We're all road nerds here, so the thought of doing a cross country trip without knowing certain generalities of the roads we're going to take seems foreign to us.  Often you'll be surprised by certain little things, but not knowing a road I was taking would be a toll road seems a little strange to me (and apparently others).

Also, this thread is a good example of others assuming every other place in the country is like where they're from (and I'm not just speaking of you).  Some states ban billboards.  Others have some every couple hundred feet it seems. 

Different strokes for different folks.  I like interstates for their efficiency when going long distances, and then I like more local roads when actually exploring areas.  They each have a place in how I plan trips.

Chris

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 06:54:14 PM
A- I am a SHE
B- I grew up in New Jersey
C- I have crossed the country more times than I could count, I just don't use interstates if I can help it. I've motorcycled it, driven it and walked a good part of it as well. Now I won't use interstates again.
D- They interstates I HAVE traveled were not toll roads, except a couple in NJ. I'm pushing sixty so perhaps I predate some of you.
E- You *could* be a little nicer. I didn't expect such unfriendly remarks.

Do you all think the plazas are a good idea? With no shade nor place to rest? Appalling idea. JMHO. I'm sticking to US highways.

I think part of it is that there's a huge difference between a "Rest Stop" and a "Service Plaza". Rest stops are generally more favorable for resting, using the restroom, eating at a picnic table, etc.  Service Plazas are generally along toll roads, and are more suited for giving you a place to sit inside.

To answer the question you posed: Both are fine. I'm not inclined to need a nap during the day anyway, so the lack of shade doesn't bother me.

For what it's worth: Technically, only about half of one toll road in NJ is an interstate. The rest aren't. Also, I've never seen, at least in recent times, anyone enforce a time restriction. They recognize that if you're tired and want to nap, you're better off taking a nap rather than enforcing a time restriction.

I will say though, if you grew up in NJ, that with your road knowledge you would've been completely baffled 70/76 wasn't the PA Turnpike. I mean...you had to go thru a toll plaza and get a toll ticket, right??

1995hoo

Quote from: Rothman on September 27, 2021, 07:17:37 PM
Something weird is going on here.

I'd like to know how fast the OP likes to drive.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

hotdogPi

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 27, 2021, 08:26:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 27, 2021, 07:17:37 PM
Something weird is going on here.

I'd like to know how fast the OP likes to drive.

Not wanting to use the Interstate system anymore is in huge conflicts with the beliefs of the user you're suggesting.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Scott5114

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
Since when does the Eisenhower Interstate System cost?

1956

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
1) It seems many of the billboards are gone. Yes they're ugly, but they're something to look at, they give you an idea what's "out there", what motels, restaurants, casinos, whatever are nearby. Plus, they keep a driver alert, like the old Burma Shave signs.

As many people have alluded to, this varies from state to state and even city to city based on local law and zoning ordinances. Here in Oklahoma, for instance, they grow like weeds.

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
2) Since the billboards are gone, in places like upstate New York, a driver looks at trees and taillights. Driver might get drowsy.

It's a driver's responsibility to not drive when drowsy. If they're getting drowsy, they need to find a place to stop. The DOT can only do so much; providing driver entertainment isn't within their remit (although you see some states try, like Pennsylvania's "nag signs" and the Kansas Turnpike Authority's oddly chatty signage–do we really need a supplemental sign for Denver in Wichita, or are you just trying to keep us awake?).

Given that you're from Wyoming, and have a professed preference for US routes, I'm a little surprised you consider this a problem. Billboards are pretty rare on US routes, and my understanding is that Wyoming is sparsely-enough populated that there isn't a whole lot to look at other than natural features while on the road in most parts of the state.

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
3) The new "service plazas" are a huge paved parking lot with revenue grabbing facilities... but I have yet to find one that provides ANY shade, any place to actually rest. They're noisy and hot. Absolutely no way to take an hour nap. Some even had a two hour parking maximum.

Service plazas ("concession areas" in Oklahoma) are not a new thing, and were often built alongside pre-Interstate toll roads. They are actually prohibited under post-1956 regulations. Both service plazas and non-commercialized rest areas are often designed specifically to make it so that they are not attractive places to stay for an unduly long amount of time, because of people using the space for other than its intended purpose as a driver amenity–making drug deals, having sex, etc.

Misuse of the space and associated policing costs, as well as maintenance costs and budget cuts, and availability of services at freeway interchanges, have led some states to completely block off and/or tear down their rest areas entirely.

Quote
4) So Drowsy Driver stops, gets a hamburger at the McDonald's drive through, and then he comes to the gas station. You see, you have to do it in that order. Either he has to eat in the car first, or set his hamburger down while he pumps gas while the burger gets cold. He can't go back to McDonalds because the plaza is one way. (I did, against the signs, because I got gas and wanted to wash my hands and get a drink)
5) And then, wholly unrested, Drowsy Driver is forced back on to the interstate.

As mentioned above, going inside is also an option (at least in Kansas, I haven't traveled much in the northeast). There is also the option, if one doesn't like the turnpike facilities, to exit at an interchange and use whatever facilities exist there. Many interchanges have at least one gas and food option, and blue service signs direct travelers to them.

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
When I was young, a toll road was a luxury, and a CHOICE. You could take the regular interstate, or chose a toll parkway and not contend with commercial vehicles or excessive exits.

Possibly in your state. In Oklahoma, toll roads were built early on for lack of any other way of funding a major freeway project before the Interstate System was built, and they continue to be built to fund needed projects that do not receive Congressional funding through the National Highway System (the Cherokee Turnpike, for example, was built as a safety upgrade to bypass a dangerous section of then-State Highway 33 that the DOT couldn't afford to build as a free road). All of our toll roads have always allowed commercial vehicles.

Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
Another consideration is the businesses that parasite off the interstate. No one is getting off to get gas, they just get it at a "plaza".

Personally, my family and I eschew using the service plaza gas stations, because they often charge a higher price to capitalize on the captive audience. We fill up either just before or just after using the toll road. I don't think this is a particularly unusual practice, at least among people on this forum.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

hbelkins

I'm not a fan of service plazas in general. Since they have a captive audience, they price gouge. The restaurants located therein often do not offer the same deals, discounts, or accept coupons that off-system independent facilities do. And the convenience stores seem to mark up snack items more than your typical c-store.

Although I must say that I was pleasantly surprised to find gas at the Topeka service plaza on the Kansas Turnpike had gas priced comparable to stations to the west of Topeka on the free portion of I-70.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

interstatefan990

#23
Quote from: SMoon on September 27, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
The places called "Text stops" or just parking areas are better, quieter, although they lack a restroom.

Those are just old rest stops rebranded as "text stops", at least in New York's case.




I haven't had many bad experiences with rest stops, mostly because I don't stop that often. But as a Northeasterner, I can definitely say the stops along I-90/Massachusetts Turnpike are more than sufficient, especially the Charlton Service Plaza Eastbound. Also many good places when driving southwards from NY in general (after you get past NYC, of course).

As for the NY Thruway, I'm willing to trade scenery/interesting sights for its excellent quality. Also, I've been driving here for decades and I've never gotten "drowsy" due to a lack of sights to see while out on the road.
Multi-lane roundabouts are an abomination to mankind.

vdeane

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 27, 2021, 06:32:18 PM
The Ladybird Johnson Highway Beautification Act limits the number and density of billboards on interstate highways.
This Wikipedia article is way more exhaustive than I care to dive into.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Beautification_Act
Not just the interstates either, also the entire NHS.  Such actually caused issues with respect to Times Square when MAP-21 added all the roads with a Principal Arterial functional classification to the NHS.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.