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Speed limit anomalies? (Fastest work zone, weird speeds, etc)

Started by colinstu, October 28, 2012, 01:32:09 PM

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:12:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:07:06 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!

Really? Is it signed?

Yes.
65 is too high for a minimum speed in my opinion, should be 45-55 in my opinion.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5


kphoger

Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

kphoger

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.

I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.

That's why I thought it was so strange.  But, on the other hand, I'd rather those people not drive under 65 on a highway signed for 80 to begin with.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

sprjus4

You sure? Oklahoma was speed limit 75 / minimum 50, then bumped to speed limit 80 / minimum 60

Texas has at least one 2 lane toll road in east Texas that's speed limit 75 / minimum 65 mph, however.

sprjus4

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.
Northeast states are 65 mph, but traffic flows 80+ mph. Those people are used to it. Not to mention, all the 70-75 mph zones as you drive west will accustom you if you're not.

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.

I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.

That's why I thought it was so strange.  But, on the other hand, I'd rather those people not drive under 65 on a highway signed for 80 to begin with.
Ever driven with a slower semi truck on the road? A lot will keep it 55-65 mph.

jakeroot

Are there any road-worthy vehicles truly incapable of at least 65 in 2021? I get that minimum speed limits need to consider all road vehicles, but I genuinely can't think of any vehicle that couldn't hit at least 65. Apart from those vehicles towing very heavy loads not really designed to be doing so. Hopefully they'd know to stay off an 80-mph freeway...

Big John

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 08, 2021, 08:55:54 PM
Ever driven with a slower semi truck on the road? A lot will keep it 55-65 mph.
Don't the slower ones have speed governors preventing them from going faster?

Roadgeekteen

I wonder if there is a minimum speed grace period, like would you get pulled over for doing 60?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

kphoger

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
Now that some of the Oklahoma turnpikes have been bumped up to 80 mph, you can see a 65 mph minimum speed limit!

Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 08, 2021, 08:52:32 PM
You sure? Oklahoma was speed limit 75 / minimum 50, then bumped to speed limit 80 / minimum 60

OK, now I'm second-guessing myself.  Here is a 75/60 speed limit sign for you.  Here is another.  However, this highway did not bump up to 80.  Perhaps the highways that did bump up to 80 weren't similar.  Serves me right for assuming, I guess.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

sprjus4

^ I did not realize some 75 mph zones had a minimum speed limit of 60 mph. There's also 75 mph zones with a 50 minimum, which is what I was thinking of.

kphoger

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 09, 2021, 02:16:48 AM
^ I did not realize some 75 mph zones had a minimum speed limit of 60 mph. There's also 75 mph zones with a 50 minimum, which is what I was thinking of.

And I was mis-remembering anyway.  I remembered being on a freeway with a 15mph speed differential, and I remembered being on a freeway with an 80mph speed limit, but my mind skipped over the fact that they weren't the same freeway (I-44 in OK, I-10 in TX).
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Scott5114

The turnpike nearest my house is 80/60.


Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.

If you can't handle doing 65, keep your ass out of our way and off our turnpikes. Every turnpike has plenty of conventional roads near it you can piddle around on.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Before the bump, those same signs said 75/60.  Both speeds were recently bumped up by 5 mph.
I guess Oklahoma does 15 below. My only fear is that the max speed on all highways in many northeast states is 65, so outsiders to Oklahoma might not feel very comfortable going much above 65.

Yeah...I don't think many in the Northeast have an issue going over 65. If anything, there's quite a number of people going well above 65 at distances much closer than normally advised in the crowded northeast.

sprjus4

From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.

vdeane

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

sprjus4

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
You're missing the fact that regardless of what is posted on the sign, traffic is going to flow 80-85 mph in rural areas, and 70-75 mph in urban areas. Speed limits should be posted high where they can be safely be so, as opposed to blanket 55 mph in urban areas and 65 mph in rural areas. Reasonable speed limits will lead to more compliance, more uniform traffic flow (people traveling a reasonable speed won't be flying way faster than the one trying to drive the speed limit - actually improved safety with a higher limit), and easier to target the worst offenders as opposed to everyone driving 15-20 mph over (simply doing a normal speed) regularly. Additionally, I've noticed driving in these higher areas recently, when the speed drops from, say, 75 mph to 70 mph, people actually will slow down slightly. As opposed to a blanket 70 mph limit that holds as it enters an urban area, people just keep doing 80-85 mph because they've been doing that and are less respectful to an artificial limit.

hotdogPi

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2021, 01:17:48 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.

That's because it's per capita. We need data per vehicle mile traveled.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2021, 06:19:40 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2021, 01:17:48 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.

That's because it's per capita. We need data per vehicle mile traveled.
On paper, that is true.  In practice and looking at how VMT is estimated, the numbers are questionable.

Of course, if we gave up the gas tax for VMT tax, the data could be made more accurate.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 11, 2021, 02:38:54 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
You're missing the fact that regardless of what is posted on the sign, traffic is going to flow 80-85 mph in rural areas, and 70-75 mph in urban areas. Speed limits should be posted high where they can be safely be so, as opposed to blanket 55 mph in urban areas and 65 mph in rural areas. Reasonable speed limits will lead to more compliance, more uniform traffic flow (people traveling a reasonable speed won't be flying way faster than the one trying to drive the speed limit - actually improved safety with a higher limit), and easier to target the worst offenders as opposed to everyone driving 15-20 mph over (simply doing a normal speed) regularly. Additionally, I've noticed driving in these higher areas recently, when the speed drops from, say, 75 mph to 70 mph, people actually will slow down slightly. As opposed to a blanket 70 mph limit that holds as it enters an urban area, people just keep doing 80-85 mph because they've been doing that and are less respectful to an artificial limit.

Nah, I'm not missing anything. And you don't have the real facts.

First, you have nothing to back up your speeds. In many cases, if someone is going 85, they have a false tendency to think that's an average speed, even if they are passing everyone else (showing they're going *above* the average). NJDOT reports yearly on speeds on certain parts of their roadway system. Average speeds on their 65 mph highways which tend to be free-flowing are generally around 75 mph; 85th percentiles are in the upper 70s, and in one or two instances may hit a little over 80.

But *everyone* going 15-20 mph over? False narrative, unless you can back that up with something more than your momentary observation.


Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2021, 01:17:48 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 11, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Quote from: vdeane on July 11, 2021, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 10, 2021, 11:30:19 PM
From my experience in driving both in the faster, less traffic areas in the South and the slower, higher traffic areas in the Northeast, it seems speed limit compliance is much higher than in the northeast. Most people tend to keep it within 5-10 miles of the 75 mph limits, even closer in the 80 mph zones. It's rare to see people on a frequent basis flying 85-90+ mph despite it technically not being much over in a lot of areas. In the northeast, despite 65, sometimes 70 mph limits, speeds tend to easily be moving 80-85+ mph.
Proof that the population/traffic density excuse for lower speed limits is BS.

That would need to be backed up with accident stats though.
The states with the most accidents per capita are western states like Wyoming.

There's also a difference between accidents and fatal accidents. Low density states tend to have more fatals because people can consistently drive at higher speeds, so when they do crash there's a higher tendency the crash will result in a fatal. In the Northeast, more people crash, but generally at slower speeds. Many often go unreported to the police at the time, as many insurance claims don't have police reports or reports written up after the fact.

MASTERNC

Quote from: sprjus4 on June 23, 2021, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on June 23, 2021, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 28, 2012, 10:13:51 PM
Maryland has had a few work zones with no reduction in speed on I-95, where the speed limit is 65.  This has been done even with lane closures.  Of course, both work zones had speed cameras.

That's the one saving grace with Maryland's photo enforcement - the speed limit often doesn't decrease (the biggest exception seems to be 70 MPH zones, where the speed limit is cut to 60 MPH).
I recall a reduced 55 mph work zone on I-81 last year with photo enforcement... then there's instances like 55 mph work zone photo enforcement limits on I-495 or I-695, where, technically the limit isn't reduced, but given the de facto limit is 65 or 70 mph (seriously, what is killing them to increase the speed limit on the Beltways? Traffic flows no differently on the 65 mph segments vs. the 55 mph segments in the Baltimore-Washington metro) and the flow is 75-80 mph, almost acts as one as everyone slams on their brakes to keep it under 65 mph (the 10 mph grace zone) through those areas.

The I-81 speed limit matched the widening project in West Virginia, which has a 55 MPH work zone speed limit.

sprjus4

Saw a work zone speed limit of 75 mph on SH-130 (speed limit 85 mph) today, which then soon after reduced to 65 mph and down to one narrow lane and barrier for some bridge construction / rehabilitation.

The roughly 20 mile segment of SH-130 between US-290 and SH-71 further north is still reduced to 70 mph (from 80 mph) despite the widening project being virtually complete and all 6 lanes open throughout. Traffic, however, was still moving 80-85 mph.

rickmastfan67




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