North Houston Highway Improvement Project (project resumed March 2023)

Started by MaxConcrete, April 22, 2015, 09:19:38 PM

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sprjus4

Quote from: armadillo speedbump on April 26, 2021, 10:23:32 PM
For those crossing the border at Laredo, the all interstate route via SA is virtually the same timewise as using the 2-lanes and small towns of US59.  So what exactly is the point you're trying to make?
Either way, going southwest on I-69 / US-59 or staying on I-10, you're going through Houston regardless.


MaxConcrete

At Friday's meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission, Chairman Bruce Bugg mentioned that has met with Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner twice recently in person as part of the Commission's efforts to keep the project moving forward.
See opening remarks, comments begin at 23:00 http://txdot.swagit.com/play/04292021-553

The Commission approves eminent domain every month, and this month's list included 8 parcels for NHHIP. This is the first eminent domain action for NHHIP. Most of these parcels are small properties along IH-45 south of IH-69. However, multiple large buildings have already been acquired without eminent domain, including two along IH-10 on the north side of downtown.

Also, the Houston Chronicle recently reported that planning on the section of IH-69 between Spur 527 and SH 288 is proceeding.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/Metro-set-to-spend-millions-to-make-sure-I-45-16118744.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

QuoteThough TxDOT has halted development of many segments, the portion along I-69 from Spur 527 to Texas 288 – which includes Wheeler – remains on pace for construction to start next year. Widening I-45 and redoing the downtown system is spread across many distinct but connected projects, and TxDOT had approvals and design ready for the first segments, but has halted development of the others until a lawsuit filed by Harris County and the federal review are settled.

This all seems to indicate that parts of the project are continuing to move forward while work on other parts has been suspended due to the lawsuit.

Below: The building with the graffiti, including the lower section in the foreground, has been acquired. This photo also shows some of the massive palm tree devastation which occurred everywhere in the Houston area due to the February freeze.



www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

kernals12

I imagine the downtown rebuild is going to be the least controversial

Plutonic Panda

I'm super happy to see this project moving forward. Now if we can just get the Hardy Toll road extension built. That is a tragedy they decided to "shelve"  that project.

bwana39

Quote from: kernals12 on May 04, 2021, 07:15:45 AM
I imagine the downtown rebuild is going to be the least controversial

As far as controversial in relationship to the activists, you are probably right.  There is a less vocal segment of the population who are dismayed at the idea that all the eggs are being in one basket. It is theoretically possible for one wreck to shut down all three downtown interstates.

The prospect of the construction bringing downtown to a crawl for a decade is also daunting.  There are some who believe the Pierce Elevated corridor should have a freeway of some sort whether it is just replace it, build a tunnel, or some other alternative.  While not everyone is on board for the downtown plan, it is probably going to meet minimal opposition.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Plutonic Panda

It would be prudent to build cut and cover tunnel bypass with limited portal access in the path of the pierce elevated. Id even support tolls. Do what Washington state did to the Alaskan Way Viaduct.

MaxConcrete

Quote from: bwana39 on May 04, 2021, 10:52:32 AM
While not everyone is on board for the downtown plan, it is probably going to meet minimal opposition.
I don't like the loss of the Pierce Elevated as a transportation corridor, but this plan is a compromise with positives and negatives. Its removal is part of the comprehensive downtown plan and certain downtown interests really want it gone, so I think there's no chance of it being used for a transportation corridor, except maybe for pedestrian and bicycle.

It would be nice if the Pierce corridor could be used for managed lane connections through downtown. But I don't see that as a possibility.

While the Pierce Elevated had its pavement replaced in 1997 and still has plenty of life, it's not going to last forever. My concern is that if NNHIP does not move forward, the future of the Pierce Elevated will be need to be considered again at some point in the future. At that time in the future, the political climate could be even less favorable. For example, the anti-car/anti-road folks may have more power and demand its removal *without* a replacement and just route traffic on existing streets (or use existing IH-69 and and IH-10), similar to the effort to remove IH-345 in Dallas. So my view is that it's better to take what can be achieved now, rather than risk a much worse outcome in the future.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

CoreySamson

I'm one of those people that doesn't really like the idea of removing the Pierce Elevated. I like having the option of getting onto the interstate from anywhere in downtown and being able to drive around the downtown "loop" to get to the freeway I need to get on. I also don't like the idea of a single crash shutting down downtown. My idea for the Pierce elevated to solve its traffic would be to put the southbound lanes in a trench while having the northbound lanes on a new viaduct over the trench (almost like a cross between a double-decker freeway and the I-10/I-35 concurrency in San Antonio). This would allow for greater traffic flow.
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

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triplemultiplex

Quote from: CoreySamson on May 04, 2021, 03:44:04 PM
I also don't like the idea of a single crash shutting down downtown.

That would have to be one spectacular crash to shut down multiple parallel carriageways.  :spin:
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

abqtraveler

Quote from: MaxConcrete on May 04, 2021, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on May 04, 2021, 10:52:32 AM
While not everyone is on board for the downtown plan, it is probably going to meet minimal opposition.
I don't like the loss of the Pierce Elevated as a transportation corridor, but this plan is a compromise with positives and negatives. Its removal is part of the comprehensive downtown plan and certain downtown interests really want it gone, so I think there's no chance of it being used for a transportation corridor, except maybe for pedestrian and bicycle.

It would be nice if the Pierce corridor could be used for managed lane connections through downtown. But I don't see that as a possibility.

While the Pierce Elevated had its pavement replaced in 1997 and still has plenty of life, it's not going to last forever. My concern is that if NNHIP does not move forward, the future of the Pierce Elevated will be need to be considered again at some point in the future. At that time in the future, the political climate could be even less favorable. For example, the anti-car/anti-road folks may have more power and demand its removal *without* a replacement and just route traffic on existing streets (or use existing IH-69 and and IH-10), similar to the effort to remove IH-345 in Dallas. So my view is that it's better to take what can be achieved now, rather than risk a much worse outcome in the future.

The problem is if the NHHIP doesn't move forward, there will still be the push to remove the Pierce Elevated. There are not a whole lot of options in dealing with the Pierce Elevated, aside from maintaining and periodic rehabilitation of the viaduct to extend its service life. I recall driving on the Pierce Elevated through downtown Houston and noticed the high-rise buildings that go right up to the edge of the viaduct (not just one or two, but lots of buildings built right up against the Pierce Elevated), thus leaving zero room for expansion.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

In_Correct

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 04, 2021, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 04, 2021, 03:44:04 PM
I also don't like the idea of a single crash shutting down downtown.

That would have to be one spectacular crash to shut down multiple parallel carriageways.  :spin:

one spectacular deliberate crash. :spin:  :banghead:
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

bwana39

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 04, 2021, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 04, 2021, 03:44:04 PM
I also don't like the idea of a single crash shutting down downtown.

That would have to be one spectacular crash to shut down multiple parallel carriageways.  :spin:

Or single gas tanker leaking from or a single semi dangling from the top flyover of the I-69/I-45 to I-10 /I-45 intersection...
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

achilles765

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 04, 2021, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 04, 2021, 03:44:04 PM
I also don't like the idea of a single crash shutting down downtown.

That would have to be one spectacular crash to shut down multiple parallel carriageways.  :spin:

have you ever spent much time on the freeways here in Houston? it is very likely that this will happen once a month at least lol
I love freeways and roads in any state but Texas will always be first in my heart

bwana39

Quote from: achilles765 on May 17, 2021, 04:08:44 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 04, 2021, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 04, 2021, 03:44:04 PM
I also don't like the idea of a single crash shutting down downtown.

That would have to be one spectacular crash to shut down multiple parallel carriageways.  :spin:

have you ever spent much time on the freeways here in Houston? it is very likely that this will happen once a month at least lol

Not that much, but enough to agree with you. I will also give you that the freeways in Houston get cleared and reopened far faster than they do in North Texas.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

MaxConcrete

Quote from: MaxConcrete on May 02, 2021, 05:56:21 PM
The Commission approves eminent domain every month, and this month's list included 8 parcels for NHHIP. This is the first eminent domain action for NHHIP. Most of these parcels are small properties along IH-45 south of IH-69.

This month's eminent domain list includes another 8 properties for NNHIP. Seven are small properties, mostly less then 0.5 acre and mostly along IH 69 just north of IH 45.
https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/commission/2021/0527/7.pdf

There is one large property, the Houston Police Department station on the southeast corner of IH45 and IH69. The building and parking lot include 3.6 acres. I'm surprised that eminent domain is needed to purchase a goverment property. I suppose TxDOT and the City of Houston could not agree on a price.

TxDOT recently had a meeting to solicit consultants for IH-69 south of IH-45 to SH 288. This presentation includes a couple of cross section views.
https://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/ppd/meetings/05132021/presentation.pdf
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

jadebenn

I hope they get an injunction against further property acquisitions/the new FHWA leadership shuts that down. This project shouldn't be moving forward until the lawsuit's settled.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: jadebenn on June 09, 2021, 08:32:46 PM
I hope they get an injunction against further property acquisitions/the new FHWA leadership shuts that down. This project shouldn't be moving forward until the lawsuit's settled.
Nice first post. Hopefully you stay far away from any decision making process.

jadebenn

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 09:00:58 PM
Quote from: jadebenn on June 09, 2021, 08:32:46 PM
I hope they get an injunction against further property acquisitions/the new FHWA leadership shuts that down. This project shouldn't be moving forward until the lawsuit's settled.
Nice first post. Hopefully you stay far away from any decision making process.
Nice welcoming to the forum. Hopefully you can learn to be more considerate of other people's opinions.

I don't see why it's radical to state that a project currently under scrutiny by the local and federal government shouldn't be continuing land acquisition at this time. Especially if it gets cancelled, which seems pretty likely to me considering how hostile said levels of government have become. Who's going to go to bat for this now? The county, which doesn't want it? The city, which doesn't want it? The federal government, which is very hostile to these kinds of projects under the new administration and has decided to make an example of this particular one? The only people in favor seem to be those at the state level, and while it's theoretically possible to ram this through... Why? Take those funds and go use them somewhere people actually want them used.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: jadebenn on June 09, 2021, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 09:00:58 PM
Quote from: jadebenn on June 09, 2021, 08:32:46 PM
I hope they get an injunction against further property acquisitions/the new FHWA leadership shuts that down. This project shouldn't be moving forward until the lawsuit's settled.
Nice first post. Hopefully you stay far away from any decision making process.
Nice welcoming to the forum. Hopefully you can learn to be more considerate of other people's opinions.

I don't see why it's radical to state that a project currently under scrutiny by the local and federal government shouldn't be continuing land acquisition at this time. Especially if it gets cancelled, which seems pretty likely to me considering how hostile said levels of government have become. Who's going to go to bat for this now? The county, which doesn't want it? The city, which doesn't want it? The federal government, which is very hostile to these kinds of projects under the new administration and has decided to make an example of this particular one? The only people in favor seem to be those at the state level, and while it's theoretically possible to ram this through... Why? Take those funds and go use them somewhere people actually want them used.
It's not my job or duty to "welcome"  you. Plenty of other posters here for that. I'm responding to your ridiculous post wanting to further delay this project that will benefit hundreds of thousands of drivers who need results now.

The county and city should sure just say we don't want it and give a giant fuck you to the thousands of motorist who use this road. Great plan.

jadebenn

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 09:23:49 PM
It's not my job or duty to "welcome"  you. Plenty of other posters here for that. I'm responding to your ridiculous post wanting to further delay this project that will benefit hundreds of thousands of drivers who need results now.

The county and city should sure just say we don't want it and give a giant fuck you to the thousands of motorist who use this road. Great plan.
The cost of living in the outer suburbs is traffic. If they don't want traffic, they shouldn't be living in the outer suburbs. The city has no obligation to cater to the suburbs' whims at the expense of its own residents, nor should it. All widening this road will do is stimulate further sprawl on the peripheries of the region until we're back at square one. I should know. I live in an outer ring suburb that's seen this exact thing happen (we're not really the outer ring anymore). So I can't blame the city for swinging negative on this project. I mean, it wouldn't really benefit me either. Maybe it'd be better for a few years, but all it'd do is push me further (relatively) into the city as new suburbs sprung up. That's not growth. That's a ponzi scheme.

Anyway, did some further digging, and it looks like the FHWA agrees with me on asking TxDOT to halt further property acquisitions.

[tweet]1399813701176287236[/tweet]



Evidently, this happened about 8 days ago, but I didn't hear about it 'till I looked at another forum. Correction, the letter's dated May 6th, so I have no idea what's happening there. I was going off the other forum's post date.

Plutonic Panda

Ah yes, the tired old induced demand argument and telling people if you don't like traffic then move. So that's your argument. Got it.

Either way, I'll reiterate my opinion and hope TxDOT pushes forward and this road is widened. More sprawl, freeways, and homes are good for me!

jadebenn

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 09:39:32 PM
Ah yes, the tired old induced demand argument and telling people if you don't like traffic then move. So that's your argument. Got it.

Either way, I'll reiterate my opinion and hope TxDOT pushes forward and this road is widened. More sprawl, freeways, and homes are good for me!
There's something ironic about a Los Angelite telling a Houstonian they should widen their urban freeways. :-D

Anyway, good luck. I don't think I've ever heard of a federal administration as anti-highway as this one. If it weren't for that, I'd definitely expect the project to proceed despite local opposition. With it, though...

Personally, I don't have a problem with freeways in general, though I do understand why the urban ones suck. My hot take is that Houston should just maintain the Pierce Elevated and I-45 as-is. Though if you want a really spicy take, I've heard there are a couple of groups convinced that with the viaduct as old as it is, they see an opportunity to a do a freeway removal by fait accompli if they block the I-45 rebuild. I'm a bit more hesitant about that possibility, though.

Plutonic Panda

You're not wrong about the current admin. While I do live in LA I am from OKC.

jadebenn

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 10:15:28 PM
You're not wrong about the current admin. While I do live in LA I am from OKC.
Yeah, when the administration wants a program for federal matching funds for freeway removal in their infrastructure bill, it kind of shows how far the conversation has shifted, huh? I'm one of those naïve, young, college-aged urbanists, but my dislike of freeways ends at a city's outer loop, so I'm hoping we don't fling too far the other way (though I'm certain some would argue we already have).

As for the LA thing, that was just meant to be some light ribbing. :P While I do still live in Houston, and have so for many, many, years, I wasn't born here, and it's likely I won't be living here much longer.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: jadebenn on June 09, 2021, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 10:15:28 PM
You're not wrong about the current admin. While I do live in LA I am from OKC.
Yeah, when the administration wants a program for federal matching funds for freeway removal in their infrastructure bill, it kind of shows how far the conversation has shifted, huh? I'm one of those naïve, young, college-aged urbanists, but my dislike of freeways ends at a city's outer loop, so I'm hoping we don't fling too far the other way (though I'm certain some would argue we already have).

As for the LA thing, that was just meant to be some light ribbing. :P While I do still live in Houston, and have so for many, many, years, I wasn't born here, and it's likely I won't be living here much longer.
Ah, I see. Yeah I think we'd probably agree more than not. If I came across harsh earlier sorry my vodka to juice ratio was a bit off and I can jump the gun sometimes.

I definitely think we need more transportation options in Houston than just cars. Keep in mind this projects adds many miles of trails and bike lanes. It also adds a grade separation for the red line to reduce end to end travel times. Houston needs to get on the ball with a serious mass transit network. DFW and Austin are doing just that. Houston, San Antonio, and dare I say El Paso, need to develop serious mass transit plans to compliment a real Texas triangle HSR system or else it won't matter if you still have to drive to the station anyways. That's my real beef with the current proposal for LA to Vegas HSR is it stopping in Victorville.



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