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2020 Minneapolis riots

Started by Roadgeekteen, May 29, 2020, 12:31:14 PM

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renegade

In before lock.  I just want to say that I believe the whole world has gone batshit crazy. :-o
Don’t ask me how I know.  Just understand that I do.


SP Cook

Dissent is an important part of change, but in a democratic society that provides for peaceful change, there is no issue that justifies a resort to violence.  We must remember that the first civil right of all Americans is to be free from domestic violence. - - Richard M. Nixon. 

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 29, 2020, 03:22:32 PM
So then, why did it happen in this case?

I don't know.  That's my point.  People assume it's because of his race, but that doesn't make it the truth.




Just finished some quick math, for those interested...


But only 12% of America is african american.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

kphoger

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2020, 04:56:55 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 29, 2020, 03:22:32 PM
So then, why did it happen in this case?

I don't know.  That's my point.  People assume it's because of his race, but that doesn't make it the truth.




Just finished some quick math, for those interested...



But only 12% of America is african american.

Right.  But what I was responding to was the assertion below (emphasis mine):

Quote from: Bruce on May 29, 2020, 03:01:52 PM
I doubt that most encounters with white people end in this manner.

That assertion was already assuming someone was having an encounter with a police officer, which is why I used the total number of arrests as my population size.  The reasons for a disproportionate percentage of one race being arrested compared to another race are both complicated and also a topic for a whole other conversation.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

index

Oh my god, please, somebody, lock this thread before my head explodes and people start turning each other into human pez dispensers.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

Brandon

Quote from: index on May 29, 2020, 05:10:18 PM
Oh my god, please, somebody, lock this thread before my head explodes and people start turning each other into human pez dispensers.

What, are you racist against Canadians and their flappy heads?
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

index

Quote from: Brandon on May 29, 2020, 05:12:13 PM
Quote from: index on May 29, 2020, 05:10:18 PM
Oh my god, please, somebody, lock this thread before my head explodes and people start turning each other into human pez dispensers.

What, are you racist against Canadians and their flappy heads?
And their beady black eyes, too.

Man, it has been years since I saw that movie.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

noelbotevera

something something the abyss gazes back

Did you know that brown is a really dark orange?

jakeroot

Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 04:33:29 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 04:26:20 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:47:43 PM
I'm actually more interested to know why the other officers didn't step in.

Because the "blue lives" spend more time watching out for each other, than watching out for the population they are supposed to protect.

I have a couple of problems with that, though.  First of all, while that may be true of some officers, I find it unlikely that it was true of all three of the other officers present.  The odds are slim that all of them care more about saving face than protecting citizens.  Police work isn't "just a job", after all, and I have to believe that the majority of those who enter the profession do so out of a desire to actually serve and protect.  Secondly, I don't see how doing nothing and letting a man die, in this day and age of recording arrests, can be expected to protect an officer;  if anything, doing so would damn him to exactly the sort of scrutiny that's going on now.

Look, I'm not here to present factual, tangible evidence to support my assertion. The same way people who are religious cannot possibly present factual, tangible evidence to support their beliefs. I'm simply saying that, in general, it seems like cops are more worried about themselves and their colleagues, even more-so than actual police work. For example, if Cop A immediately shoots to kill when it wasn't necessary, Cop B doesn't immediately arrest the other cop. The reaction is, "not sure that was wise" and then trying to find ways to justify their moves. The cops are more worried about themselves, period. They don't police each other, hardly ever. If they do, it's the Chief that does it purely for PR.

For the record, I appreciate cops. I have several in my family (including one who does detective work for LAPD), and I've watched every episode of Blue Bloods. But to pretend that even most cops are more worried about finding the truth and serving and protecting? Maybe some, but I'm willing to bet a huge number are just former military who can't stand the thought of being in a job without a gun, and they walk around fully prepared to fire at all times (usually because they are worried about protecting themselves). 99% never do anything wrong, but it's the mindset of most cops that I think is the problem. Which is, protect myself and my colleagues, then citizens, then farm animals, then blah blah blah whatever.

jakeroot

Quote from: renegade on May 29, 2020, 04:43:37 PM
In before lock.  I just want to say that I believe the whole world has gone batshit crazy. :-o

Shit it's probably getting locked, deleted, and the key thrown away. If you have an opinion, speak now or forever hold your peace. :-D

LM117

Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:47:43 PM
I'm actually more interested to know why the other officers didn't step in.

Because the "blue lives" spend more time watching out for each other, than watching out for the population they are supposed to protect.

Yep. Besides, the whole "serve and protect" mantra is BS since courts have consistently ruled that police have NO legal duty to protect you.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

LM117

Quote from: renegade on May 29, 2020, 04:43:37 PM
In before lock.  I just want to say that I believe the whole world has gone batshit crazy. :-o

What was your first clue? :-D
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Max Rockatansky

I'm just replying so I can keep up on what you guys end up saying before the likely lockdown comes. 

Roadgeekteen

Minneapolis just announced a curfew starting at 8 pm.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Duke87

Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 29, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
These people were murdered by police for the color of their skin

Is that why George Floyd was killed?  If so, please cite your sources.

It is likely impossible to prove that race motivated any particular incident, unless the perpetrator is on the record saying so.

When the aggregate trends are viewed, however, it is clear that there are racial disparities in general with how people are treated by police. This is why we have the concept of systemic (as opposed to individualized) racism.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

ozarkman417

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2020, 07:40:04 PM
Minneapolis just announced a curfew starting at 8 pm.
Like anyone is going to follow it..

webny99

Quote from: LM117 on May 29, 2020, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: renegade on May 29, 2020, 04:43:37 PM
In before lock.  I just want to say that I believe the whole world has gone batshit crazy. :-o
What was your first clue? :-D

Or perhaps more importantly, when was your first clue? I hope this wasn't it.

webny99

#42
Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 07:16:29 PM
Look, I'm not here to present factual, tangible evidence to support my assertion. The same way people who are religious cannot possibly present factual, tangible evidence to support their beliefs.
That's simply untrue, but probably best left at that... lest I contribute to expediting the inevitable with regards to this thread...

Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 07:16:29 PM
I'm simply saying that, in general, it seems like cops are more worried about themselves and their colleagues, even more-so than actual police work.
That's no different from any other occupation or profession, though. You could say that about anybody. The only reason why we're even having this conversation is because of (1) higher stakes and (2) more publicity, with cops as compared to other occupations.

(Of course, that doesn't make the cops right, but they're hardly unique [referring to the 3 bystander cops here] in having major conflict of interest...)

jakeroot

Quote from: webny99 on May 29, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 07:16:29 PM
Look, I'm not here to present factual, tangible evidence to support my assertion. The same way people who are religious cannot possibly present factual, tangible evidence to support their beliefs.
That's simply untrue, but probably best left at that... lest I contribute to expediting the inevitable with regards to this thread...

As someone who is religious: I cannot think of tangible evidence for my faith. That's why I call it "faith".

Quote from: webny99 on May 29, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 07:16:29 PM
I'm simply saying that, in general, it seems like cops are more worried about themselves and their colleagues, even more-so than actual police work.
That's no different from any other occupation or profession, though. You could say that about anybody. The only reason why we're even having this conversation is because of (1) higher stakes and (2) more publicity, with cops as compared to other occupations.

Last I checked, police were the only profession that regularly arrest and kill other people (for right or wrong). It's a completely different occupation from anything else, yet cops treat each other like they're working a regular 9-to-5 gig. You better believe that a job where you can be judge, jury, and executioner is going to have a lot of publicity, as it should. Since, as I said, the police sure don't seem to police each other.

The stakes are not just "higher" than most occupations: it's basically the highest-stake position someone can hold. It needs different standards than a couple of schmoes working at Best Buy.

RobbieL2415

I give up.  It's like I have to please the masses with my opinion.

STLmapboy

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2020, 04:56:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 29, 2020, 03:22:32 PM
So then, why did it happen in this case?

I don't know.  That's my point.  People assume it's because of his race, but that doesn't make it the truth.




Just finished some quick math, for those interested...


But only 12% of America is african american.
And are the source for 50% of the crime.
Teenage STL area roadgeek.
Missouri>>>>>Illinois

webny99

Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 09:37:41 PM
Last I checked, police were the only profession that regularly arrest and kill other people (for right or wrong). It's a completely different occupation from anything else, yet cops treat each other like they're working a regular 9-to-5 gig. You better believe that a job where you can be judge, jury, and executioner is going to have a lot of publicity, as it should. Since, as I said, the police sure don't seem to police each other.

I don't have a problem with the publicity. I'm just saying, they're still regular human beings doing fairly standard stuff about 95% of the time. Being one of the other 3 cops in this situation would be an incredibly weird and scary situation. This guy that you've worked with, trusted, and had a relationship with, possibly for many years, suddenly turns out to be a murderer, and you're watching it happen in real time. You're probably in complete shock. How do you stand up for a total stranger and possible criminal, against the guy you know and have a relationship with?

You can't just simply quit trusting another cop. Trust works both ways. You're kiboshing your relationship with him, possibly even risking your own job, not to mention your own life, by publicly disagreeing with or "policing" another cop. Doing that goes against your entire training and the entire fundamentals of the profession. As devastating as it is when there's a bad egg cop and something like this happens, cops still have to put trust in each other, or the entire concept of law enforcement crumbles. That's what makes this such a tough problem to tackle.

Quote from: jakeroot on May 29, 2020, 09:37:41 PM
The stakes are not just "higher" than most occupations: it's basically the highest-stake position someone can hold.
Pilots, surgeons, and the military come to mind as positions that can have similar stakes. Not 100% of the time, of course, but same goes for cops.

TheHighwayMan3561

You see the destroyers. You don't see the people protesting for what they believe is right, and you don't see the people helping clean up the mess. That doesn't sell newspapers and rile up angry white people with no connection to the city.

It's a worldwide embarrassment and I've been ashamed to tell people I'm from here.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5



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