Driving a UK rental on the continent/Does AA have physical offices?

[briantroutman]

I'm traveling to Europe next month–the plan is to fly to LHR, rent a car, and spend a week making a circuit from the UK to France and Germany (and countries in between) and then back to the UK.

So far, I've learned the following:

• I'll need to pay a "Driving Abroad Fee"  to Hertz of about £70.
• Ferry portage will run about £90 round trip
• Various equipment (reflective vests and triangles, headlight beam converter, UK sticker, breathalyzer, etc.) are required in some countries, and the AA sells a complete kit for about £30

But even with all of those extra expenses, given the good weekly rate I'm getting on the car, it seems I'll still be pounds-ahead vs. doing a more expensive per-day rental, returning the car, taking the train, renting another car in France...

Does anyone have any other considerations to add or any personal experiences to share?

Also, the AA's website has all items available for sale online, but I don't see any listing of physical offices. Do they not have branches such as AAA clubs do in the US? I suppose I could order online a few days in advance and have shipped to my first night's hotel.

I've also gotten some input from people on Flyertalk.

[Brandon]

WTF do you need a breathalyzer for?  Or, more accurately, which asinine country makes people carry such useless shit in their cars?

[oscar]

Your UK rental car presumably will be set up for driving on the left, while you'll be doing a lot of driving on the right on the Continent.  Especially if you're only accustomed to driving on the right, seems better to have separate rentals, one on the Continent where you can drive a car more or less similar to what you drive at home (except perhaps the stickshift -- automatics are expensive on the other side of the pond), and one for the UK where you'll have to get the hang of driving on the left but at least your car will be set up for that, and constantly reminding you to drive on the left.

Not that people from the UK don't drive, safely, on the Continent and vice versa.  But at least they're usually driving and familiar with their own cars, and know how to drive stick-shifts, which could make things easier for them than for you.

[J N Winkler]

Also, the AA's website has all items available for sale online, but I don't see any listing of physical offices. Do they not have branches such as AAA clubs do in the US? I suppose I could order online a few days in advance and have shipped to my first night's hotel.

The AA has a headquarters in Basingstoke, and I dimly remember that they used to have high-street branch offices, but I haven't seen any in recent years and suspect they have all been closed to reduce expenditure on rents.  I'd endorse the idea of having the kit shipped to your hotel, provided the latter will hold it for your arrival.

[Truvelo]

WTF do you need a breathalyzer for?  Or, more accurately, which asinine country makes people carry such useless shit in their cars?

It's the French that require you have a breathalyzer in the car.

As for using the same car to cover the whole of your trip I am surprised the use abroad fee is as low as £70. Even so, I would still be tempted to rent a car at Heathrow to drive in Britain then rent a car France to do the stuff on the continent. The French rental car should have all the safety equipment required by the countries you intend to visit whereas the UK car will have virtually nothing as we don't require any of those items.

I guess you've already booked your flights by now otherwise you'd be best to fly to an airport in France, rent the car there to use for the whole of your trip. As you'll be driving a foreign car whilst in the UK you won't be ticketed by our speed cameras as it's too much trouble for the authorities to trace the owners of foreign vehicles.

[briantroutman]

WTF do you need a breathalyzer for?  Or, more accurately, which asinine country makes people carry such useless shit in their cars?

As was mentioned, it's a relatively new law in France. Apparently the law's status has been in doubt for some time–first approved, then perhaps repealed–or delayed–and finally reaffirmed. From what I gather, the regulation is active, but the fines for violating that law have been suspended indefinitely. A crime with no penalty.

I'd endorse the idea of having the kit shipped to your hotel, provided the latter will hold it for your arrival.

That's probably what I'll do.

But at least they're usually driving and familiar with their own cars, and know how to drive stick-shifts, which could make things easier for them than for you.

I do drive a manual gearbox-equpped car exclusively, so I won't be the typical American who's never seen a stick before. Not that it's exactly the same thing, but I've been testing shifting with my left hand (reaching across my body), and other than the stretch, it's surprisingly not difficult. Yes, it will be different when I'm actually there, sitting on the opposite side, and so on, but I'm optimistic that I can cope with it. From what I've read, most people who have gone through the same experience have indicated that switching sides wasn't as difficult as they anticipated.

I guess you've already booked your flights by now otherwise you'd be best to fly to an airport in France, rent the car there to use for the whole of your trip. As you'll be driving a foreign car whilst in the UK you won't be ticketed by our speed cameras as it's too much trouble for the authorities to trace the owners of foreign vehicles.

Yes, I have already booked–got a surprisingly good three-figure (in dollars) flight from SFO-LHR, non-stop. Regarding your second point, though, wouldn't it be the same, just reversed, if I rented a car in France for the entire trip? (i.e. I would be immune from British speed cameras with a French plate, but I would still be vulnerable to French cameras.)

[Truvelo]

Yes, I have already booked–got a surprisingly good three-figure (in dollars) flight from SFO-LHR, non-stop. Regarding your second point, though, wouldn't it be the same, just reversed, if I rented a car in France for the entire trip? (i.e. I would be immune from British speed cameras with a French plate, but I would still be vulnerable to French cameras.)

What I was getting at is France has some of the toughest restrictions on what so-called safety equipment is required to be in the car so if you rented a car in France it would satisfy the requirements of the other countries you will be visiting. Of course, wherever you rent the car you'll be vulnerable to that country's speed cameras.

Transatlantic flights at this time of year are among the cheapest you'll find. My flight to Yuma last week was £600. In the summer a roundtrip goes up to around £800. Another advantage of flying off season is there's a decent chance of getting two empty seats next to you in cattle class meaning you get a nice bed to sleep on without paying to fly business.

[Brandon]

^^ Why does France have these restrictions in the first place?  They seem to make very little sense to me.  I even saw (on Top Gear of all places) where they even require a reflective vest in the vehicle.  Of course, I laughed when Jeremy Clarkson wore it while driving in France.

[english si]

I can understand the vest/warning triangles - make you visible if you break down. Rather overkill, but not a bad idea.

As for the breathalyser - the rule is a silly one. It's to get you to test to see if you are safe to drive, but if you've used it, then - unless you had a spare - you violate the law, as you have to have an unused one...

Ferry portage will run about £90 round trip

What craziness is that?

Oh wait, Le Shuttle charges more if you stay in France longer, so £23+ one-way becomes £52 one-way if you stay more than 2 nights and £70+ one-way if you stay more than 5. Guessing rival ferries also long. You might be able to get a bargain - P&O are offering 20% off Dover-Calais if you aren't day tripping.

[J N Winkler]

Why does France have these restrictions in the first place?  They seem to make very little sense to me.  I even saw (on Top Gear of all places) where they even require a reflective vest in the vehicle.  Of course, I laughed when Jeremy Clarkson wore it while driving in France.

AIUI, the justification for requiring the motorist to carry his or her own breathalyzer is to ensure that every driver has the opportunity to test his or her own intoxication level before he or she sets out to drive.  The logic is similar to announcing sobriety checkpoints in the newspapers in advance--it undermines public sympathy for anyone caught in them.

As to the equipment requirements more generally, France used to have a very bad road safety record (high death rate per billion vehicle kilometers, etc.), and overshot when attempting to tackle it through a comprehensive package of road safety-related legislation.  France now has a much better safety record but the restrictions remain.  For example, unlike Britain, France requires mandatory driver instruction before a person can even take the driver's license examinations.

[Chris]

Paying tolls with a UK car may be a bit tricky in France, especially if you are driving alone (the toll booth is on the "wrong" side).

European policing is a bit different from the United States, getting pulled over is exceedingly rare. It happened to me once in 8 years of driving in a dozen or so European countries. I wouldn't worry too much about not having a breathalyzer.

Driving in the left lane(s) without actively passing another vehicle is generally frowned upon in continental Europe. It's keep right unless to pass, especially in Germany where people frequently drive 100 mph or more. Also note that semi trucks drive rather slow in Europe, often 50 or 55 mph maximum, even in Germany where others drive up to twice that speed.

You can get the American Forces Network on the radio in some parts of Germany, but the range of their stations is fairly limited.

[1995hoo]

I will concur that driving a right-hand drive manual (i.e., set up for driving on the left) is not difficult at all if you're used to driving a manual shift. I had no problems at all. For me the biggest challenge had nothing to do with the manual shift–it was maneuvering in parking garages that had lots of pillars, simply because the bulk of the car is on the opposite side from what I'm used to. But it was no big deal and I didn't damage anything–I just had to take it more slowly and cautiously than I might at home, and that's never all that bad an idea anyway.

I do make it a routine that whenever I drive an unfamiliar manual shift, I make a run through the gears with the car turned off simply to familiarize myself with the width of the shift pattern, the length of the shift throw, and any nuance of shifting into reverse (e.g., some cars require you to lift up on a collar or push down on the shifter). I started doing this back when I got my first car, a 1977 Granada, because it had a much longer throw than the Accord on which I learned to drive a manual. I stalled the Granada like six times within the first block until I pulled over and ran through the gears. It still pays off. I'd rather discover the wider shift pattern before starting off than in the middle of negotiating a roundabout on the way out of the airport.

[Truvelo]

Finding reverse on a manual gearbox is a major annoyance as there is no standardisation whatsoever between manufacturers. As well as either lifting up or down it can also be in any of the four corners. Get it in half way and there's a horrible scraping sound as you crunch the gears.

[Brandon]

Finding reverse on a manual gearbox is a major annoyance as there is no standardisation whatsoever between manufacturers. As well as either lifting up or down it can also be in any of the four corners. Get it in half way and there's a horrible scraping sound as you crunch the gears.

Even within a manufacturer there is no consistency.  Our '81 Dodge Aries had a four speed with reverse being up and to the left, by first, but you had to push down to get into it.  My '11 Dodge Caliber has a five speed with reverse being down and to the right, below fifth.  I've seen other patterns as well, having worked at an auto auction one summer.  The worst are the ones that have first down and to the left, below reverse.  Completely counter-intuitive to a standard H.

[corco]

That was always the worst when I worked as a valet. People give you their keys and they have some weird manual transmission shift pattern and they're standing right there as you pull away so you have to look confident and get it done quickly. Eventually you figure out the tricks (not always gearbox related- try disabling the emergency brake on an Aston Martin without any prior instruction), but man, I loved some of the cars I got to drive but hated that pressure sometimes.

I can drive a stick well, but different gearboxes handle differently and different clutches handle differently from car to car, so that makes it fun. When pulling away in somebody's $70,000 sports car and they're standing right there, you really don't want to stall but you also don't want to burn out or rev it way too high, so you have to really get it right, which can be tricky in the first start in an unfamiliar car (especially something with 300+ horsepower).

We had an "always back in a car with a stick" policy just because of that- better to fumble with where reverse is and how to get to it as you're parking the car than when the owner is waiting to get the car back. Once you've been doing it for a while, you get the tricks and know what you're going to have to do for most makes and models, but valet is a pretty high-turnover operation, so you get lots of new people who haven't learned those tricks yet.

[briantroutman]

Paying tolls with a UK car may be a bit tricky in France, especially if you are driving alone (the toll booth is on the "wrong" side).

I will have my wife with me, so that should help with tolls, car park ticket machines, etc.

European policing is a bit different from the United States, getting pulled over is exceedingly rare.

Part of the "Driving in Continental Europe Kit"  is a GB sticker for the rear of the car, and I had wondered if would serve as a magnet for police–like California plates in Texas.

I do make it a routine that whenever I drive an unfamiliar manual shift, I make a run through the gears with the car turned off simply to familiarize myself with the width of the shift pattern, the length of the shift throw, and any nuance of shifting into reverse (e.g., some cars require you to lift up on a collar or push down on the shifter).

I hadn't really thought of that, but it sounds like a great idea. I usually end up feeling out the bounds of the shift pattern while in motion.

Even within a manufacturer there is no consistency.  Our '81 Dodge Aries had a four speed with reverse being up and to the left, by first, but you had to push down to get into it.  My '11 Dodge Caliber has a five speed with reverse being down and to the right, below fifth.

There may be inconsistency within individual manufactures anyway, but in your case, the transmissions were provided by two different manufacturers. The Aries would have had an actual Chrysler-built transmission, but the Caliber transmission was sourced from an outside manufacturer, Magna (a Canadian company). If you had a Caliber with the 6-speed manual, it would have been provided by Aisin (a division of the Toyota group) or Getrag (a German company) depending on the specific year.

[Truvelo]

Part of the "Driving in Continental Europe Kit"  is a GB sticker for the rear of the car, and I had wondered if would serve as a magnet for police–like California plates in Texas.

Even without the GB sticker the font and spacing of the characters on the license plate is different for each country so a British plate will show up easily no matter which country you're in. If the rental car has a blue GB section on the plates you won't need the sticker anyway.

[briantroutman]

So I returned from my trip, and everything went well. I ordered the Driving in Europe kit and had it shipped to the hotel–and the kit just sat unused in the boot for the duration of the trip (except for the GB magnet). Adjusting to RHD was no problem; neither was driving on the left. For the most part, the roads I drove were channelized, and the blue circular signs with the downward diagonal arrows were clear in showing which side to use–if you ever had a doubt.

Shifting with my left hand wasn't a problem, with one minor exception. Unlike my own car, where the shifter seems to naturally gravitate from 1 to 2 (or 3 to 4) when you pull it back, in the Fiat 500L Hertz provided, the shifter seemed to center itself and would go easily from 1 to 4. You really had to push firmly to the left to go into 2. But I adjusted to that pretty quickly as well.

I paid the £60 Driving Abroad fee that Hertz charges, and they gave me the required VE103B form, but to my surprise, neither P&O nor any of the border checkpoints asked to see it. Perhaps I could have pocketed the £60 and no one would have known.

Driving the RHD Fiat in LHD continental countries was fine, in fact I think it made parallel parking easier. The only unnerving thing was having a sizable blind spot behind and to the left, which led to lots of craning my neck around when moving into a leftward lane to pass on a freeway–particularly in Germany where cars were overtaking at 200 km/h.

My surprise with Germany in particular was how fairly basic and antiquated the Autobahnen seemed, at least in the area I traveled. In fact, they often put me in mind of refurbished older PA freeways: 2-3 lanes each direction, narrow median barrier with no inner shoulder, and lots of full and partial cloverleafs with tight loop radii.

I was also somewhat underwhelmed by the Rasthofs, which I expected to be either larger, more distinctly German, or otherwise more impressive. For the most part, I found them to be mid sized gas stations with an adjacent convenience store, sometimes with a deli counter of sorts inside. Some did have fast food, usually in a separate building. And pay toilets, although out of a €0.70 fee, they did give you a €0.50 voucher for the store.

If I had to do it all over, I would have requested an even smaller car from Hertz. The Fiat 500L, which most Americans would consider to be a fairly compact car, was something of a nail biter to drive on the tight neighborhood streets of Paris and Brussels. Then again, the Fiat wasn't much fun (and didn't seem prepared) to drive at 100 m.p.h. and over, and I suspect that a smaller Renault Twingo or Vauxhall Aglia would be less so. Maybe there's no car that would be equally good for high-speed freeway as well as well as negotiating tight city streets when you reach your destination.

I was expecting fuel to be expensive, but even my "roughly double"  expectation was optimistic. In greater London, I was paying £1.49/liter for diesel, which equates to about $9.40/US gallon. It was a bit less on the continent, however–about €1.30-1.40/liter ($6.75-$7.25/US gallon).

Thanks everyone for all of your help and input.

[english si]

I was expecting fuel to be expensive, but even my "roughly double"  expectation was optimistic. In greater London...

There's your mistake...

However you were totally and utterly had if you paid £1.49! OK, its diesel and more expensive than petrol, but it's only 136.9 tops around here just outside the M25. I see 132.7 at Watford ASDA and a 131.9 within 5 miles of Purley (possibly the cheapest two places inside the M25) as lowest prices. In fact, most expensive in Central London that I can see is 139.9. I'm only seeing 143.9 for Clackett Lane services - which is meant to be the most expensive place in England. Are you sure that you weren't on some remote Scottish island rather than in Greater London? The price of fuel has gone up recently (last time I was at Watford ASDA it was 128.7 and that was at the beginning of the month), so it's not as if they've suddenly dropped.

My surprise with Germany in particular was how fairly basic and antiquated the Autobahnen seemed, at least in the area I traveled. In fact, they often put me in mind of refurbished older PA freeways: 2-3 lanes each direction, narrow median barrier with no inner shoulder, and lots of full and partial cloverleafs with tight loop radii.

Similar era, similar design manual.

[briantroutman]

However you were totally and utterly had if you paid £1.49!

OK–my recollection is slightly off. I have the receipt in my hand from the Heston Services on the M4 and see that I paid £1.469/liter–but that's still only about 2p off.

Unfortunately, I had the triple whammy of being unfamiliar with the area, having no cell data coverage (so everything had to be looked up on wifi before heading out), and trying to keep a fairly tight schedule. I knew I was probably overpaying, but I didn't have much opportunity to shop around.

My surprise with German...they often put me in mind of refurbished older PA freeways

Similar era, similar design manual.

That was exactly my thought as I typed that. Pioneering freeways built in the '40s.

[Truvelo]

Over here you avoid motorway services and use local gas stations to save money. The lowest prices are normally found at supermarkets. ASDA is the best because it's the same price countrywide. Unleaded is currently £1.267 and ASDA always ends the prices in 7 rather than 9 just so they can say they're the cheapest.

[woodpusher]

It's too late now I suppose but isn't it less than 90 pounds to drive the chunnel? 

[english si]

It's too late now I suppose but isn't it less than 90 pounds to drive the chunnel?

Yes, about 50 quid return, but only if you are a daytripper: the price of longer term trips is just under the price of two day trips.

The Shuttle is typically the same price as the ferry. Like theme parks, newspapers typically run discount offers on cross-Channel car crossings, where if you collect enough coupons, you get half price tickets.

[SteveG1988]

Finding reverse on a manual gearbox is a major annoyance as there is no standardisation whatsoever between manufacturers. As well as either lifting up or down it can also be in any of the four corners. Get it in half way and there's a horrible scraping sound as you crunch the gears.

Even within a manufacturer there is no consistency.  Our '81 Dodge Aries had a four speed with reverse being up and to the left, by first, but you had to push down to get into it.  My '11 Dodge Caliber has a five speed with reverse being down and to the right, below fifth.  I've seen other patterns as well, having worked at an auto auction one summer.  The worst are the ones that have first down and to the left, below reverse.  Completely counter-intuitive to a standard H.

That is called a dog leg first, it is designed for performance vehicles, idea is to have an easier 2-3 shift where you are accelerating