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Regional Boards => Great Lakes and Ohio Valley => Topic started by: TempoNick on January 22, 2022, 12:49:36 AM

Title: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on January 22, 2022, 12:49:36 AM
The newspaper articles I've been reading about the new $20 billion dollar Intel plant coming to New Albany say that the state of Ohio has committed money to expanding Ohio 161. I'm assuming that means additional lanes and/or exits? Anybody have information on this?
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: SkyPesos on January 22, 2022, 01:22:43 AM
I think OH 161 may be 6 laned deeper into New Albany, as it current narrows to 4 lanes just east of the Hamilton Rd exit (barely entering New Albany). I don't know the exact location of the Intel plant, so not sure if a new exit will be needed or not.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: ibagli on January 22, 2022, 02:02:54 AM
The plant is going to be off of Mink Street, which had an exit added in 2017, so I assume it means six lanes at least to there.

I think there would eventually be implications for US-62 between New Albany and Johnstown as well. I'm not sure how literally to take the renderings on this, but they show Green Chapel Road and Mink Street both being six lanes with medians near the site, and I imagine there would be quite a bit of traffic trying to access it from the west.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 22, 2022, 12:31:15 PM
The newspaper articles I've been reading about the new $20 billion dollar Intel plant coming to New Albany say that the state of Ohio has committed money to expanding Ohio 161. I'm assuming that means additional lanes and/or exits? Anybody have information on this?

Beyond ODOT director Jack "I'm a radio DJ on Sundays" Marchbanks stating that Oh 161 would be widen to 6 lanes out to the chip plant, I haven't heard as to any other plans for roads.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on January 22, 2022, 04:27:28 PM

Beyond ODOT director Jack "I'm a radio DJ on Sundays" Marchbanks stating that Oh 161 would be widen to 6 lanes out to the chip plant, I haven't heard as to any other plans for roads.

I think it needs to be widened a few miles east of there because of the potential bottlenecks created when you go from 3 to 2 lanes.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: skluth on January 22, 2022, 05:46:53 PM

Beyond ODOT director Jack "I'm a radio DJ on Sundays" Marchbanks stating that Oh 161 would be widen to 6 lanes out to the chip plant, I haven't heard as to any other plans for roads.

I think it needs to be widened a few miles east of there because of the potential bottlenecks created when you go from 3 to 2 lanes.
All that's needed is to replace those stoplights at the end of the Mink Rd ramps with nice modern roundabouts!  :bigass:
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Buck87 on January 23, 2022, 03:17:35 PM
I wonder which way truck traffic from the plant to I-70 east will go and vice versa.

Google likes OH 161 to OH 37 as the fastest route. 161-270 would include some out of the way backtracking but would be on freeways the whole time. OH 310 and/or Mink Rd to US 40 are more direct but aren't the best quality roads and go through more congested areas.

Do big deals like this one ever include stipulations as to which way truck traffic should move in situations like this?

Edit to add, I now notice that there is already an industrial park just to the west of this future plant, so I would imagine that typical traffic patterns for trucks going to and from this area is already well established.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 24, 2022, 03:08:32 AM

Beyond ODOT director Jack "I'm a radio DJ on Sundays" Marchbanks stating that Oh 161 would be widen to 6 lanes out to the chip plant, I haven't heard as to any other plans for roads.

I think it needs to be widened a few miles east of there because of the potential bottlenecks created when you go from 3 to 2 lanes.
All that's needed is to replace those stoplights at the end of the Mink Rd ramps with nice modern roundabouts!  :bigass:

Those will be coming (within the decade)
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 24, 2022, 03:21:45 AM
I wonder which way truck traffic from the plant to I-70 east will go and vice versa.

Google likes OH 161 to OH 37 as the fastest route. 161-270 would include some out of the way backtracking but would be on freeways the whole time. OH 310 and/or Mink Rd to US 40 are more direct but aren't the best quality roads and go through more congested areas.

Do big deals like this one ever include stipulations as to which way truck traffic should move in situations like this?


I'm sure there will be promises made (and maybe contracts drawn) in regards to any truck traffic that could go south through Pataskala. A bypass, or rerouted Oh 310 would be ideal, but Pataskala is so sprawled out, where would ODOT build a road without eating up exaggerated land costs (due to a myriad of housing)
(They wouldn't make the trucks go east to Newark and then follow Oh 79 south to I-70, would they?)
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 24, 2022, 04:13:02 PM
It's too bad Ohio isn't interested in any new Interstate corridors or the OH 161/37/16 corridor would be an ideal corridor for a 3di. If the at-grades on 16 at Dayton Rd., Marne Rd., and the Marne/Brownsville Rd. SE intersections were eliminated, among other upgrades, would have been sufficient for a Columbus-to-Trinway Interstate corridor.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: SkyPesos on January 24, 2022, 05:07:00 PM
It's too bad Ohio isn't interested in any new Interstate corridors or the OH 161/37/16 corridor would be an ideal corridor for a 3di. If the at-grades on 16 at Dayton Rd., Marne Rd., and the Marne/Brownsville Rd. SE intersections were eliminated, among other upgrades, would have been sufficient for a Columbus-to-Trinway Interstate corridor.
I remember reading a while ago that long-term plans are for a 4 lane expressway between Columbus and Pittsburgh along OH 161/OH 16/US 36/US 250/US 22. Not sure if that idea died out or not, but if "I-73" in Ohio gives a clue to anything, I'm guessing so.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 24, 2022, 11:50:55 PM
It's too bad Ohio isn't interested in any new Interstate corridors or the OH 161/37/16 corridor would be an ideal corridor for a 3di. If the at-grades on 16 at Dayton Rd., Marne Rd., and the Marne/Brownsville Rd. SE intersections were eliminated, among other upgrades, would have been sufficient for a Columbus-to-Trinway Interstate corridor.
I remember reading a while ago that long-term plans are for a 4 lane expressway between Columbus and Pittsburgh along OH 161/OH 16/US 36/US 250/US 22. Not sure if that idea died out or not, but if "I-73" in Ohio gives a clue to anything, I'm guessing so.

And this shocks you?!
http://www.roadfan.com/ohiomaps.html (7 different state maps of highway proposals from 1946-1974 & some 1962 Rand McNally)
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on January 25, 2022, 09:40:41 PM

I remember reading a while ago that long-term plans are for a 4 lane expressway between Columbus and Pittsburgh along OH 161/OH 16/US 36/US 250/US 22. Not sure if that idea died out or not, but if "I-73" in Ohio gives a clue to anything, I'm guessing so.

It doesn't look like such a great route because you have to go North to Coshocton and then you kind of have to go south to Steubenville and Pittsburgh. It would make more sense taking Ohio 16 to US 22 and then US 22 to Pittsburgh, but I doubt such a road is needed.

US 23 being all freeway is definitely needed.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on February 21, 2022, 07:03:28 AM
Story about Columbus following the Intel announcement.

https://www.governing.com/community/america-discovers-columbus-ohio
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: kalvado on February 21, 2022, 08:37:59 AM
A bit late for the discussion... A nearby Global Foundries big fab (Fab 8 in Malta NY) is located off I-87. Fab itself is served by 2-lane roads. A few of those were purpose built as the site was a mostly greenfield development, but nothing really major. Interstate didn't get too much extra traffic.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 19, 2023, 11:31:28 PM
A second outerbelt? Intel growth forcing Ohio transportation execs to think big
NEWARK − The development coming to Licking County has pushed transportation planners into overdrive. The question, though, is which roads should be widened and improved.

Officials can’t wait to see where traffic goes to determine where money should be spent. But they don’t want to guess wrong and not improve roads that need it.

The $20 billion Intel Corporation computer chip manufacturing facility just south of Johnstown has forced planners, consultants, city, township, county and state officials to all look into their crystal ball and predict future transportation needs. It's a challenging and expensive game, and everybody is playing.

The latest long-term discussion has been over the potential need for a second outer belt around Columbus, in addition to Ohio 270. Jim Roberts, chairman of the Grow Licking County infrastructure committee, said a consultant mentioned it at a recent meeting.

“It’s just kind of a vague concept now," Roberts said. "It’s an idea that’s out there.”

Jack Marchbanks, director of the Ohio Department of Transportation, confirmed an outer outer belt has been discussed lately, but it's not a new concept.

“It’s been discussed going all the way back to the 1990s," Marchbanks said. "The idea has come up over and over again. It’s in the exploratory stage. It’s been discussed. There's no official study yet. No decisions have been made.”

Marchbanks said the Columbus metro area kind of extends from Mansfield to Chillicothe and "now it’s actually filling out to those boundaries."

The ODOT boss said the goal is to develop a transportation system that's safe and reliable, helps people get to and from work and works for people in emergencies. He said it's difficult to plan far in advance, but that's ODOT's job.

"It’s our responsibility to be scouts and look at future needs," Marchbanks said. "It has to be fact-based. We know traffic is going to grow. ”˜If you build it, they will come’ is not a responsible use of assets.”

Matt Hill, director of the Licking County Area Transportation Study, said the latest talk of the need for another Columbus outer belt is not new.

“This is like the third time I’ve heard it discussed (in the last 20 years),”  Hill said. “Somebody out there wants a better connection to I-71 north."

Licking County transportation planning
Bill Lozier, the Licking County Transportation Improvement District projects director, said the TID is reviewing traffic projections from MS Consultants based on land use plans from Monroe, Jersey and St. Albans townships around the Intel development.

“What we want to prepare for is opening day for Intel in 2025," Lozier said. “The raw numbers for the new zoning when it’s fully built out is staggering. It’s truly like dropping a new city out in the cornfields.

“The old rule of thumb was once you get over the threshold of 2,000 cars a day, it kind of becomes a higher-class road you need to treat differently," Lozier said. "That’s an old-school rule of thumb. But now we’re talking on (Intel's) opening day, a lot of these roads are going to be hitting 4,000 or 5,000.”

Lozier said the projections are for 2050, so it's not all happening at once. He said the TID seeks to coordinate with ODOT and combine funding sources to address the massive needs. Lozier said the deadline for Ohio TID grant applications is in March. It received $500,000 last year for design around Intel.


“We don’t have a choice. We’re going to have to pick a couple routes that lead into Intel on the local road network and focus on those," Lozier said. "The rest of them are going to have to evolve over time.”

Licking County Engineer Jared Knerr said Intel has said 90% of the construction traffic will use Ohio 161 to Beech Road to Jug Street and then onto Haul Road, the new Harrison Road-Clover Valley connector.

Soon after the Intel announcement a year ago, ODOT announced plans to widen Ohio 161 in Franklin County, but in September then State Sen. Jay Hottinger said the State Controlling Board approved the distribution of $13 million to expand Ohio 161 from Columbus to Newark.

New Albany, which has annexed much of Jersey Township plans to make improvements to Green Chapel Road and Mink Street.

In April, then State Rep. Mark Fraizer presented roadway plan improvements showing Green Chapel Road, which separates Jersey and Monroe townships, becoming a five-lane highway from Mink Street to Clover Valley Road by December of this year. Mink Street was also slated to become five lanes from Green Chapel Road to Ohio 161 by April 2024.

Knerr said the city of New Albany is responsible for Mink Street from Worthington Road, south of Ohio 161, to Green Chapel, according to road maintenance agreements. New Albany is similarly responsible for Green Chapel, from Mink to Clover Valley Road. Knerr said he’s seen plans for Green Chapel to become five lanes, but also seen plans for it to become three lanes. He could not confirm the construction timelines.


The transportation needs are not confined to the immediate area of Jersey, Monroe and St. Albans townships.

Harrison Township Trustee Mark Van Buren said plans need to be made for the Ohio 158-Interstate 70 interchange and north on Outville Road in the township. He said two half-million square foot warehouses will be built on a 280-acre farm in the area.

“We have a blank canvass," Van Buren said. "I can see all this traffic coming to one spot and 10 years from now, how do we fix it?"

Harrison Township is located immediately east of Pataskala and south of St. Albans Township. The Ohio 158 interchange in Kirkersville is close to the townships of Harrison, Etna and Union, so Van Buren said the TID could get involved in a collaborative effort.

Lozier said the TID continues working with Newark and Heath on the Thornwood corridor, which will take traffic from Thornwood Crossing to Ridgely Tract Road and onto Ohio 79.

Jared Lane, the city of Heath director of building and zoning, said the southern part of Thornwood Drive, around Beaver Run Road, has become a focus.

“We’ve met with three foreign companies wanting to come to that area," Lane said. "There’s a ton of interest in that area.”

Lozier said there may be a need to widen Refugee Road between Ohio 310 and Etna Parkway.

“Congestion is building on 310,”  Lozier said. "During the morning peaks, 310 northbound at U.S. 40 is backing up. When traffic finds out it can bypass Pataskala downtown, the concern is it going to go west over to Mink and go north somehow.”

kmallett@newarkadvocate.com
Twitter: @kmallett1958
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on March 04, 2023, 08:25:27 AM
It's too bad Ohio isn't interested in any new Interstate corridors or the OH 161/37/16 corridor would be an ideal corridor for a 3di. If the at-grades on 16 at Dayton Rd., Marne Rd., and the Marne/Brownsville Rd. SE intersections were eliminated, among other upgrades, would have been sufficient for a Columbus-to-Trinway Interstate corridor.
I remember reading a while ago that long-term plans are for a 4 lane expressway between Columbus and Pittsburgh along OH 161/OH 16/US 36/US 250/US 22. Not sure if that idea died out or not, but if "I-73" in Ohio gives a clue to anything, I'm guessing so.

And this shocks you?!
http://www.roadfan.com/ohiomaps.html (7 different state maps of highway proposals from 1946-1974 & some 1962 Rand McNally)

It's not completely dead, just mostly.

https://omegadistrict.org/cpcorridor/ (https://omegadistrict.org/cpcorridor/)

I always thought it would be beneficial to have a single US route number to cover the full corridor, especially with the route number musical chairs we have in Granville and Coshocton. I also see utiliity in upgrading the corridor to at least 4-lane divided highway between Dresden and Coshocton since ODOT does not see enough return on investment to widen I-70 to 6 lanes through Zanesville. This would allow Intel and other New Albany Commerce Park traffic another high-speed corridor to access I-77 to the east.

I have seen multiple questions/comments about north-south connectors between New Albany and Newark. Utilizing 310 with a Pataskala bypass is not viable due to all of the sprawl (residential followed by commercial) in and around Pataskala on both sides of the city. I don't see 37 getting widened south of Granville with the exception of spot left turn lanes due to local pushback (the village and township have signs up designating 37 as a scenic byway). Thornwood Drive, which runs along the western edges of Newark and Heath, is a project that Licking County (LCATS) wants to see completed, and the Thornwood Connector bridge project will begin later this year; however, the intent of that project is to open up more land for factories using a 4-lane boulevard as opposed to conducting traffic between 16 and I-70. The only viable solution at this point is to have parallel high-speed corridors to I-77; we are simply too late for a connector.

For the remaining Newark area traffic lights (Dayton Rd, Marne Rd, and Licking Valley/Brownsville Rds going west to east), it makes the most sense to construct an overpass at Dayton Road and install interchanges at the Marne and Licking Valley/Brownsville intersections. While Dayton Rd has much more traffic than Marne Rd, constructing an overpass will allow for better spacing between intersections. I would switch the suggestions for Dayton and Marne Roads if there weren't already an exit at O'Bannon Avenue.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: 3467 on March 04, 2023, 11:42:18 AM
It's interesting that the sixties maps are still the base in Ohio and Illinois. Also Iowa and Missouri .
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Bitmapped on March 06, 2023, 10:12:02 PM
It's interesting that the sixties maps are still the base in Ohio and Illinois. Also Iowa and Missouri .

Not in Ohio. The state went to GIS-based mapping in 1995 and completely replaced the previous base.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: skluth on March 08, 2023, 05:50:17 PM
It's interesting that the sixties maps are still the base in Ohio and Illinois. Also Iowa and Missouri .

The Illinois highway map (https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Travel-Information/Maps-&-Charts/2022%20state%20map.pdf) is definitely GIS-based. It's pretty obvious in places like the I-88/355 area where a live cartographer would have offset the highways where they run parallel. And the south end of I-355? Good grief is that bad. Illinois may have used their existing hard copy map as a starting point, but it looks like centerline data to me.

Missouri using GIS is even more obvious. Here's their city inset for St Louis (https://www.modot.org/sites/default/files/documents/StL.pdf). Just look at those interchanges along any freeway; if that's not GIS that's from the worst cartographer in history. The full state can be found here (https://www.modot.org/official-state-highway-map).

Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: 3467 on March 08, 2023, 07:11:57 PM
Sorry I meant from a planning perspective that they still tend to base most road expansions in those general corridors
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 13, 2023, 11:41:35 PM
More smoke in regards constructing some sort of highway between I-71, the Intel plant site, and I-70, around the NE quadrant of Metro Columbus.
Something (an Ohio Super 2, or a divided highway, or freeway quality road) is going to get built between 70 & 71 before this decade is over. Most likely down to US 33 as well.

https://www.thereportingproject.org/road-through-licking-county-being-discussed-to-bypass-congestion-in-johnstown-near-intel-site-and-connect-with-i-71-and-i-70/
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 14, 2023, 02:52:33 AM
More smoke in regards constructing some sort of highway between I-71, the Intel plant site, and I-70, around the NE quadrant of Metro Columbus.
Something (an Ohio Super 2, or a divided highway, or freeway quality road) is going to get built between 70 & 71 before this decade is over. Most likely down to US 33 as well.

https://www.thereportingproject.org/road-through-licking-county-being-discussed-to-bypass-congestion-in-johnstown-near-intel-site-and-connect-with-i-71-and-i-70/

Good. It's something that is necessary. I hope I live to see it.

You can see how everything is coming together with the four laning of US 33 all the way to the West Virginia border. It will be a good connection between Michigan, Toledo and I-77 going south.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: 3467 on July 14, 2023, 09:18:42 AM
What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 14, 2023, 04:14:47 PM
What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

It's been a while since I've driven that stretch, but US 33 as you get close to the West Virginia border looks like like an interstate highway, except that only the two lanes on one side of it is paved. The other side is grass. All the overpasses and interchanges are there that need to be there, if I remember correctly. I don't know how long this stretches, but it's pretty obvious that it was built with the idea of putting two more Lanes in at some point in mind.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 14, 2023, 06:32:08 PM
What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

Two lane highway with NO local access (i.e. driveways)
Examples include:
US 33 in couple of place between Athens and Ravenswood
Oh 334 above Springfield
Oh 37 north of Lancaster
Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: 74/171FAN on July 14, 2023, 07:08:26 PM
I honestly have been thinking about if the temporary I-70 section of OH 158 may be incorporated into this potential route.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 15, 2023, 12:36:46 AM
I honestly have been thinking about if the temporary I-70 section of OH 158 may be incorporated into this potential route.

Yes, that 2 mile section of Oh 158 (old Temp I-70) would qualify as a "Super Two."
(and there are other examples around Ohio that I haven't mentioned (or forgotten) that would qualify as well)
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 15, 2023, 01:12:07 AM
Certain parts of US 33 south of Athens look like this as well. This is Ohio 158:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Ohio158Interstate70.jpg/1280px-Ohio158Interstate70.jpg)
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 15, 2023, 02:55:26 AM
My fantasy freeways connecting Columbus to the outside world:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V_rJ3robiQt3kB1aDmLian1-0O9hU9HF/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Bitmapped on July 17, 2023, 10:13:09 AM
What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

Two lane highway with NO local access (i.e. driveways)
Examples include:
US 33 in couple of place between Athens and Ravenswood
Oh 334 above Springfield
Oh 37 north of Lancaster
Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Ohio's version of a Super 2 is a modern two-lane alignment with controlled access right-of-way that prevents adjoining property owners from directly accessing the road. Unlike what other states consider to be Super 2, in Ohio, at-grade intersections are OK.

Depending on the age of the road, there may be full-width paved shoulders or not. Same goes for turn lanes. Newer construction tends to have full-width shoulders and turn lanes, while older ones do not. Pretty much anything ODOT has built as a new alignment since the 1960s meets this definition. Some other examples include:
- US 22 east of Cadiz
- Number of pieces of SR 7 including the Pomeroy/Middleport bypass
- US 33 two-lane sections east of Athens
- US 50 in western Vinton County
- SR 585 near Doylestown
- SR 57 between SR 585 and I-76
- US 42 around Spring Valley
- SR 73 near Waynesboro

What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

It's been a while since I've driven that stretch, but US 33 as you get close to the West Virginia border looks like like an interstate highway, except that only the two lanes on one side of it is paved. The other side is grass. All the overpasses and interchanges are there that need to be there, if I remember correctly. I don't know how long this stretches, but it's pretty obvious that it was built with the idea of putting two more Lanes in at some point in mind.

The two-lane portions of US 33 have a number of at-grade intersections.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on July 17, 2023, 12:32:02 PM
I just drove 33 from Ravenswood to Lancaster on Saturday as part of my return trip from the beach. The 2-lane portions are all at-grade intersections with left and right  turn lanes from 33, and there are 2 overpasses on the Athens to Darwin section. The good news is that funding for the design of the 4-lane upgrade is in the most recent approved TRAC.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 17, 2023, 03:59:50 PM
I just drove 33 from Ravenswood to Lancaster on Saturday as part of my return trip from the beach. The 2-lane portions are all at-grade intersections with left and right  turn lanes from 33, and there are 2 overpasses on the Athens to Darwin section. The good news is that funding for the design of the 4-lane upgrade is in the most recent approved TRAC.

The overpasses are what I remember. Regardless of whether there are at grade intersections or not, it seems pretty obvious to me that those sections were built with four laning in mind.

That's the way government does things anyway and this is not a criticism. When they want something to happen but there's no money for it, they'll do stuff like this with the idea that someone will finish the job at some point in the future.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: seicer on July 17, 2023, 05:01:37 PM
Oh 334 above Springfield
Oh 37 north of Lancaster

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here (https://goo.gl/maps/V8vf1HmhQd2Jxjw67) in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

There is also the US 50 segment east of Londonderry, too: https://goo.gl/maps/UDQBGCc5H8GeaMFP7. I'm not sure why, but a few years back they rebuilt a section of it on the unused ROW and abandoned the original section.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 18, 2023, 01:29:49 AM

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here (https://goo.gl/maps/V8vf1HmhQd2Jxjw67) in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 18, 2023, 03:01:56 AM

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here (https://goo.gl/maps/V8vf1HmhQd2Jxjw67) in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

What is Old State Road that runs parallel to us 23? Was that Route 3 at one point?
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Bitmapped on July 18, 2023, 10:26:56 PM
There is also the US 50 segment east of Londonderry, too: https://goo.gl/maps/UDQBGCc5H8GeaMFP7. I'm not sure why, but a few years back they rebuilt a section of it on the unused ROW and abandoned the original section.

It's a pavement test segment, similar to what ODOT has on US 23 near Waldo. At some point, ODOT will shift traffic back to the old section and analyze the newer lanes.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on July 19, 2023, 12:06:53 AM

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now

Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here (https://goo.gl/maps/V8vf1HmhQd2Jxjw67) in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

What is Old State Road that runs parallel to us 23? Was that Route 3 at one point?

I'm guessing you're speaking of this?
http://www.roadfan.com/oldstrd.html
1968 Columbus Dispatch Sunday Magazine article that got me interested in the history of 'Old State Rd'
http://www.roadfan.com/strdcohx.html
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 19, 2023, 12:52:19 AM

Oh 3 in Delaware Co. was originally constructed as a Super 2, in the 1950s, but that hasn't been the case in 20-25 years now


Fascinating. It still has the ROW. Looking at old aerials, it started here (https://goo.gl/maps/V8vf1HmhQd2Jxjw67) in Westerville and the limited access seems to have ended at the east side of Sunbury. Some of the expanded ROW is kind of hard to make out in areas as it doesn't look to have ever been fenced - and a lot of it continued to be tilled by local farmers.

You're missing the 2nd half between Sunbury & Condit.
Both are easy to spot, on the ground, because the original 3-C routings are labeled as 'Old 3-C Highway' by the county.

What is Old State Road that runs parallel to us 23? Was that Route 3 at one point?

I'm guessing you're speaking of this?
http://www.roadfan.com/oldstrd.html
1968 Columbus Dispatch Sunday Magazine article that got me interested in the history of 'Old State Rd'
http://www.roadfan.com/strdcohx.html

Thanks. I thought it interesting that they use the term shunpike in 1968. But googling, I find out that "shunpike" dates back to the 1860s. Never would have guessed.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on July 22, 2023, 06:49:54 AM
Linked is an announcement (I used the governor's press release to avoid paywalls) for additional funding of $90 million to assist local entities with enhancing roadways for Intel and its suppliers. Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described. Thornwood Drive is planned to become a parkway between Ohio 16 and 79 from the west side of Newark to the south side of Heath between two of the industrial parks where many Intel suppliers and subcontractors have announced plans to expand. Work is currently underway to create a better connection from the Thornwood Crossing exit to Thornwood Drive as well as remove vehicle traffic from the Showman Arch bridge that currently has a temporary bridge maintaining traffic.

https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/governor-dewine-announces-new-targeted-investments-for-silicon-heartland-transportation-improvements
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 22, 2023, 12:05:13 PM
Linked is an announcement (I used the governor's press release to avoid paywalls) for additional funding of $90 million to assist local entities with enhancing roadways for Intel and its suppliers. Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described. Thornwood Drive is planned to become a parkway between Ohio 16 and 79 from the west side of Newark to the south side of Heath between two of the industrial parks where many Intel suppliers and subcontractors have announced plans to expand. Work is currently underway to create a better connection from the Thornwood Crossing exit to Thornwood Drive as well as remove vehicle traffic from the Showman Arch bridge that currently has a temporary bridge maintaining traffic.

https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/governor-dewine-announces-new-targeted-investments-for-silicon-heartland-transportation-improvements

That should be able to handle Intel okay, but the anticipated spin-off businesses and the people they bring are going to be a challenge without new freeways.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: thenetwork on July 22, 2023, 01:55:08 PM
What does Ohio consider a super 2 ?

Examples of Ohio Super-2s are:

OH-57 Between I-76 and Rittman
OH-585 Between OH-21 and OH-94 (Doylestown)
US-42 Ashland Bypass
US-224 Between Akron and Atwater
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: ibagli on July 23, 2023, 10:19:47 AM
Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described.

If they decide on a new roadway to the east (which was one of the options being discussed last year (https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2022/04/20/design-work-begins-year-thornwood-drive-improvements-main/7366105001/)), it would be a little ironic because it's only been about five years since ODOT sold off its last remaining pieces of land in that area, from the proposed freeway that was canceled for the last time in the late 90s. But I think it was going to go a lot farther east than this would, through what's now Reddington Park.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on July 28, 2023, 02:07:46 PM
Personally, I am intrigued by what will end up happening with Thornwood Drive and "The Hill" intersection as they described.

If they decide on a new roadway to the east (which was one of the options being discussed last year (https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2022/04/20/design-work-begins-year-thornwood-drive-improvements-main/7366105001/)), it would be a little ironic because it's only been about five years since ODOT sold off its last remaining pieces of land in that area, from the proposed freeway that was canceled for the last time in the late 90s. But I think it was going to go a lot farther east than this would, through what's now Reddington Park.

Sometimes I wonder if they have the money for it, other times I think to myself, they built US 33 around Lancaster and Nelsonville and practically all the way to West Virginia, and they built US 35, so they'll be able to find the money if they want it. If I were doing it, I'd just do one loop from US 23, all the way down to US 33 near Lancaster.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on July 28, 2023, 07:37:21 PM
I must have missed that Advocate article last year. That amount of money makes me think that they will build east of the current intersection. It also explains why nothing has been done to rebuild the railroad crossing at Keller Drive since the new design will likely make it a cul-de-sac south of the tracks.

With regards to the potential second bypass, the involvement of the New Albany Company tells me something will get done, likely not as grand as Delaware to Lancaster. My guess is it would mirror the 310 corridor and include the proposed extension to 33 (https://www.10tv.com/mobile/article/news/local/proposed-connector-between-us-33-i-70-some-fearful-for-unnecessary-change/530-3e0b755a-bfaa-4b90-a3b3-64bb02348424), but there is so much development on both sides of Pataskala that I am not sure how they would go around it. The temporary 70 right of way (current Ohio 158) is too far east to get back to 310 for  the extension.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Buck87 on February 01, 2024, 01:57:18 PM
Here's the TRAC application for widening 161:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/trac/2023Apps/FRA-LIC%20SR%20161%2022.10-0.00.pdf

Note at this time its just for preliminary engineering and detailed design
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on February 02, 2024, 01:59:23 PM
Here's the TRAC application for widening 161:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/trac/2023Apps/FRA-LIC%20SR%20161%2022.10-0.00.pdf

Note at this time its just for preliminary engineering and detailed design

If they're going to go to six Lanes all the way to Ohio 37, that means it's six lanes all the way into Granville? That's more than I expected.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on February 05, 2024, 06:00:28 AM
Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on February 05, 2024, 10:29:33 PM
Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.

If the powers that be want something, they'll make it happen. But using the existing segment would be a little messy, I think. Bypass to the north of Nerk?
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Bitmapped on February 06, 2024, 03:26:49 PM
Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.

If the powers that be want something, they'll make it happen. But using the existing segment would be a little messy, I think. Bypass to the north of Nerk?

Why is there a need for a bypass of the existing OH 16 freeway through Newark? Where would this hypothetical additional traffic go once it gets past Newark? OH 16 goes back to two lanes as it approaches Coshocton County. OH 146, the other major route for traffic taking OH 16 out of Newark, is also two lanes.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Rothman on February 06, 2024, 05:27:37 PM


Unfortunately, the 6-lane expansion will only get you to the 161/37/York Road intersection. However, Intel's recent announcement that it likely won't meet the 2025 opening goal (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/ohio-residents-and-state-senator-offer-thoughts-on-updates-to-intel-project/) gives ODOT extra time to get the project rolling.

The good news is that the bridge reconstruction project on 16 (same highway) between Granville and Newark is making them capable of supporting 3 lanes in each direction. I don't see it getting to 6 lanes through Newark, though. Much like I-70 through Zanesville, the right of way is too narrow to allow for it.

If the powers that be want something, they'll make it happen. But using the existing segment would be a little messy, I think. Bypass to the north of Nerk?

Why is there a need for a bypass of the existing OH 16 freeway through Newark?

"What do you mean. why's it got to be built?  It's a bypass.  You've got to build bypasses."
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on February 07, 2024, 01:07:09 AM

Why is there a need for a bypass of the existing OH 16 freeway through Newark? Where would this hypothetical additional traffic go once it gets past Newark? OH 16 goes back to two lanes as it approaches Coshocton County. OH 146, the other major route for traffic taking OH 16 out of Newark, is also two lanes.

Adding a lane through there might cause problems elsewhere. Does sleepy Nerk want six lanes of traffic going through there? It's a tight configuration with a lot of exits jammed through there plus a connection with Ohio 79 that has to be dealt with. Can Ohio 79 handle all that traffic dumped into it? Is there room to reconfigure everything so that there aren't any bottlenecks? It seems like a bypass to the north allows you to avoid all that and gives you a clean slate to work with.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: Bitmapped on February 07, 2024, 09:31:14 AM

Why is there a need for a bypass of the existing OH 16 freeway through Newark? Where would this hypothetical additional traffic go once it gets past Newark? OH 16 goes back to two lanes as it approaches Coshocton County. OH 146, the other major route for traffic taking OH 16 out of Newark, is also two lanes.

Adding a lane through there might cause problems elsewhere. Does sleepy Nerk want six lanes of traffic going through there? It's a tight configuration with a lot of exits jammed through there plus a connection with Ohio 79 that has to be dealt with. Can Ohio 79 handle all that traffic dumped into it? Is there room to reconfigure everything so that there aren't any bottlenecks? It seems like a bypass to the north allows you to avoid all that and gives you a clean slate to work with.

You missed my point: Why is there a need for 6 lanes of traffic through/around Newark?
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: seicer on February 07, 2024, 10:05:23 AM
Newark isn't exactly sleepy (replying to TempoNick) - it's at 50,000 in population and with the completion of the freeway, it's becoming a bedroom community of Columbus (like all of the ring cities around the area). There have been significant development projects in the city that really increase its presence.

As for traffic counts, it's 32,000 west of Granville, 38,000 just west of OH Route 79 in Newark, 50,000 to 39,000 through the city, and 30,000 east of Newark. It really drops to under 8,000 by the time you get to Dresden. At a minimum, the remaining at-grades should be removed along the freeways, and consideration should be made on making the freeway more efficient - before widening as the right-of-way through the city is constrained.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: webny99 on February 07, 2024, 10:46:11 AM
How many traffic signals are remaining between Newark and the OH 16/OH 146 split? Those are egregious, and I would say removing them should easily be the #1 priority. That would create a continuous freeway corridor which would do much more to improve the corridor (especially in terms of safety) than a widening.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on February 07, 2024, 11:41:33 AM

You missed my point: Why is there a need for 6 lanes of traffic through/around Newark?

Because Intel is going to create a lot of spin-off and that is going to be a pretty good connector to the outer outer belt which will need to be constructed somewhere through there. I personally don't like all this growth Columbus is getting, but it's better than the alternative of no growth. I liked the old Columbus size-wise, but I like the new Columbus with the higher end things we get to see and experience. I guess you could only have one or the other.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: seicer on February 07, 2024, 12:20:08 PM
There is an at-grade intersection with TR 131 River Road west of Newark, although it is now a right-in, right-out. East of Newark, there are at-grade signalized intersections with Dayton Road, Marne Road, and Brownsville Road. There are no projects in the queue for Route 16 at this time: https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/projects/all-projects#page=1&subset=counties,Licking
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on February 07, 2024, 01:54:41 PM
There is an at-grade intersection with TR 131 River Road west of Newark, although it is now a right-in, right-out. East of Newark, there are at-grade signalized intersections with Dayton Road, Marne Road, and Brownsville Road. There are no projects in the queue for Route 16 at this time: https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/projects/all-projects#page=1&subset=counties,Licking

Why is that called Dayton Road? Was it once the way to Dayton? I don't see anything that could be a direct route to Dayton from there.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on February 08, 2024, 02:49:13 PM
So much to unpack in the last few posts. I’ll try to fill in some missing information.

There is only a RIRO at 16 East and River Rd in Granville. The RIRO between 16 West and River Rd was closed off when the 37 East/661 interchange was rehabilitated a couple of years ago. I don’t have a good answer about Dayton Road’s naming origins, but it’s likely for an early landowner in the nearby area.

The discussion about adding capacity through (it won’t go around) Newark is because of the growth along the corridor that is currently taking place and will speed up once Intel begins its operations near Johnstown (I know New Albany annexed the property, but it’s much closer to Johnstown than New Albany proper).

I also saw posts about an outer outer belt and, more importantly, north-south connections. My opinion is the 2nd outerbelt is purely speculation (it’s been in Columbus Dispatch articles, so it isn’t limited to message boards), but there are valid concerns and questions about north-south traffic. LCATS and the City of Heath are already planning to expand Thornwood Drive to a 4-lane parkway which will meet up with the extension of Thornwood Crossing and and its interchange with 16 in Newark. Based on current plans, my best guess is that Fairfield County’s proposed 70-33 connector (https://www.morpc.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/FAI_I-70_to_US_33_Connector.pdf) will be constructed and extended through Licking County to 161, likely somewhere between 310 and Mink St.

UPDATE: For those you hoping to use the 158 Super-2 right of way in a project or even get pictures, PID 93290 is going to bid on 4/18/24 to get rid of the Loop Rd overpass and turn it into an at-grade intersection.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: TempoNick on February 09, 2024, 01:46:46 AM
Based on current plans, my best guess is that Fairfield County’s proposed 70-33 connector (https://www.morpc.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/FAI_I-70_to_US_33_Connector.pdf) will be constructed and extended through Licking County to 161, likely somewhere between 310 and Mink St.

Freeways. We need freeways. Where are the forward thinking people who understand the need to get the infrastructure in place now? People put their necks on the line to design and build the freeway system we have now. But metro Columbus is double or triple the population. Somebody needs to have a little foresight and do what past generations did. Bite the bullet and get it done now so we don't have another mess like US 23.
Title: Re: Ohio 161 Expansion for New Intel Plant
Post by: carbaugh2 on February 25, 2024, 07:16:58 AM
While looking at projects for 33 on the Upcoming Projects spreadsheet (https://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/ContractAdmin/Contracts/Pages/upcoming-projects-overview.aspx), I noticed that project 95445 is scheduled to be let in January 2026 that will perform major rehabilitation on 16/37 through Granville (MM 14.24/15.72). The part that caught my eye is that it includes adding general purpose lanes. While I knew that the new bridges on 16 between River Rd and Thornwood Crossing (eventually Drive) would be built to handle 6 lanes of traffic, I had not heard anything about adding lanes. I hope they will also address the weaving concerns between the interchanges where 16 and 37 enter/exit the freeway.