Prince William County, a suburban county south of the Washington Metropolitan Area, is going to be receiving a lot of new major road improvements in the coming years, including new interchanges and intersection improvements along Prince William Parkway (VA 234/294) and miscellaneous improvements to I-95, such as a new southbound auxiliary lane to hopefully speed up the nightly slowdown across the Occoquan River as well as new southbound HOT lane ramps at Opitz Boulevard to provide better access to a new PRTC commuter garage.
The most notable of these upcoming changes just recently broke ground in March. This is the new complex interchange for Prince William Parkway, Dumfries Road, and Brentsville Road, also simply known as the Brentsville Interchange project. Currently, there are two signalized interchanges, met at by four different highways: VA 234, VA 234 BUS, VA 294, and SR 649. With all these high-traffic commuter routes, most of them high-speed, meeting at two close-together signalized intersections, this is a very accident-prone area and is unsafe to other cross-traffic, pedestrians, and cyclists. Here is what it currently looks like:
(https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/interchangearea.jpg)
Initially, VDOT considered using a double diamond interchange, like the ones seen along Fairfax County Parkway, which would have the road alignment look similar to this:
(https://potomaclocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Recommended-Route-234-Bypass-at-Dumfries-PWP-Brentsville-Rd-Interchange-1.png)
Instead, they came up with a half-interchange, half-intersection design, which looked like this:
(https://www.potomaclocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Brentsville-1-e1529858371361.jpg)
The intersection, which would be a 4-way intersection paired with a half-trumpet ramp connection between VA 234 South and VA 294, was replaced with a fully grade-separated interchange design, retaining the half-trumpet but adding more ramps and replacing the intersection with an overpass:
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/insidenova.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/c8/3c83c528-5f4b-11ec-b3db-6b17e0f9a01a/61bca8006780d.image.jpg?crop=1522%2C799%2C0%2C281&resize=1200%2C630&order=crop%2Cresize)
For a second time, they once again redesigned the proposed interchange, with the final product going to be the second interchange design, just more condensed:
(https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/projectroutes.jpg)
This is just one of the new highway projects along Prince William Parkway. The diverging diamond interchange at Balls Ford Road is about halfway complete, and there are several other proposed projects too, including a single-point urban interchange at Sudley Manor Road (which includes an overpass for Wellington Road), a quadrant intersection at University Boulevard which will extend Discover Boulevard to PWP, a dumbbell intersection at Clover Hill Road, which uses roundabout to make left turns between the intersecting roads, and a single-point urban interchange at Minnieville Road to go along with the new Quartz District mixed-use neighborhood development project.
To give my opinion, I'm hoping that VA 234 around Manassas is fully-upgraded to a freeway rather than having its at-grade intersections improved. This road gets backed up for miles and has constant collisions due to the signalized intersections and investing in SPUIs for University Boulevard and Clover Hill Road sounds better in my opinion, but it seems this all has to do with costs. Maybe for another time in the future.
All that aside, I'm interested to see how this new interchange will turn out, and perhaps these new road projects, particularly the ones around Manassas, open a window for more frequent bus service between Manassas and the Dumfries/Woodbridge area, as well as an extended shared-use path along VA 234, both offering easier commutes for people who don't own cars.
What do you all think of the new interchange (and other projects)?
Do you work for PWC?
I read that intersection had complaints about the interchange being woefully inadequate for cyclists and pedestrians, has that been corrected?
Virginia is getting closer and closer to having an Outer Beltway. If nothing else, I imagine this could draw traffic off of 95 north of Dumfries.
Quote from: kernals12 on June 08, 2022, 07:58:44 PM
Virginia is getting closer and closer to having an Outer Beltway. If nothing else, I imagine this could draw traffic off of 95 north of Dumfries.
To go where? Making the Manassas Bypass a few minutes faster than it currently is would draw
additional I-95 NB traffic how?
Envisioning VA 234 as the outer beltway is a stretch. There are at least 13 stop lights between I-95 and the VA 294/SR 649 interchange location. Also numerous other at grade intersections.
If I knew how to I would create a map in google kmz/mnl that showed my proposal for the outer beltway going clockwise:
-'ICC extension' from the current ICC terminus at I-95 in Laurel to Rt 50, 6 lanes
-'Brandywine bypass' from Rt 50 to Rt 301 by Brandywine, 4 lanes
-'Potomac expressway' from Brandy in an arc to the Potomac straight across from the southern end of Quantico MB, 4 lanes until at the new bridge, which is 6 lanes
-'Quantico expressway' from the Potomac along the perimeter of the Quantico MB, up to PW PKWY, 4 lanes
-'PW expressway' where the PW Pkwy would be upgraded to a full interstate with 6 to 8 lanes to I-66
-'Bi County expressway' from PW Pkwy and I-66 going north but more on the tai-county NOT bi county route to intersect with 50 and Rt 606 in Loudoun, 4 lanes
-'Dulles Expressway' from Rt 50 on Rt 606 crossing the Greenway with a new west exit to Dulles Airport and then going straight north over the Loudoun County Parkway to Rt 7, 6 lanes
-'Techway' from Rt 7 across to the ICC, 6 lanes until over the Potomac Bridge, then 4 lanes
All segments tolled except for the PW Expressway.
Minimal exits to prevent sprawl and keep this as intended-a bypass for 95 to Baltimore/NY traffic, 95 to Dulles/PA Turnpike traffic
Creating a map in kilohertz...? :D
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2022, 06:59:09 AM
Creating a map in kilohertz...? :D
Looks like autocorrect to me. Maybe it was supposed to be a .kmz file?
Quote from: bluecountry on June 09, 2022, 06:57:47 AM
If I knew how to I would create a map in google kHz that showed my proposal for the outer beltway going clockwise:
-'ICC extension' from the current ICC terminus at I-95 in Laurel to Rt 50, 6 lanes
-'Brandywine bypass' from Rt 50 to Rt 301 by Brandywine, 4 lanes
-'Potomac expressway' from Brandy in an arc to the Potomac straight across from the southern end of Quantico MB, 4 lanes until at the new bridge, which is 6 lanes
-'Quantico expressway' from the Potomac along the perimeter of the Quantico MB, up to PW PKWY, 4 lanes
-'PW expressway' where the PW Pkwy would be upgraded to a full interstate with 6 to 8 lanes to I-66
-'Bi County expressway' from PW Pkwy and I-66 going north but more on the tai-county NOT bi county route to intersect with 50 and Rt 606 in Loudoun, 4 lanes
-'Dulles Expressway' from Rt 50 on Rt 606 crossing the Greenway with a new west exit to Dulles Airport and then going straight north over the Loudoun County Parkway to Rt 7, 6 lanes
-'Techway' from Rt 7 across to the ICC, 6 lanes until over the Potomac Bridge, then 4 lanes
All segments tolled except for the PW Expressway.
Minimal exits to prevent sprawl and keep this as intended-a bypass for 95 to Baltimore/NY traffic, 95 to Dulles/PA Turnpike traffic
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1EG7qT3s-eWf2fs3ilt-tMhhy9VGwksA-&usp=sharing
Mine uses VA 28, VA 234, I-370, US 301, and MD 210.
I think upgrading existing roads is a more elegant solution.
Quote from: 1 on June 09, 2022, 07:14:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2022, 06:59:09 AM
Creating a map in kilohertz...? :D
Looks like autocorrect to me. Maybe it was supposed to be a .kmz file?
More than likely, but autocorrect even capitalized the H. :D
Quote from: bluecountry on June 08, 2022, 07:05:19 PM
Do you work for PWC?
I read that intersection had complaints about the interchange being woefully inadequate for cyclists and pedestrians, has that been corrected?
No, I just live here. I can't really tell but it looks like in the 3rd design images that the paths will cross over the ramps and at-grade intersections with crosswalks. It appears to be the most basic of pedestrian/cyclist infrastructure at a glance but maybe they will make improvements later on or there are some safety features I don't see.
Quote from: kernals12 on June 08, 2022, 07:58:44 PM
Virginia is getting closer and closer to having an Outer Beltway. If nothing else, I imagine this could draw traffic off of 95 north of Dumfries.
If the Bi-County Parkway is built, then yeah, a new half-beltway for people who want to basically avoid Nova. It's an interesting idea on paper and I would love an easier way to get up past Leesburg from where I am in southern PWC. However, I really don't think they should create an outer beltway. Dumfries Road is already jam-packed with trucks and commuters every evening and with all the new development happening along the southern corridor in Dumfries, to have an Interstate's amount of traffic, stop and go at every light and yielding for the pedestrians, horrifies me. They would have to either widen VA 234 or upgrade it to a freeway, both of with are practically impossible and would tear up the newer frontage roads, driveways, and sidepaths.
I think they should just make dual-carriageway EZ-Pass lanes along I-95 and think of extending the Metro to Quantico.
To add on, making an outer beltway would undoubtedly just create more sprawl, turning Manassas into a Fairfax and Warrenton into a Manassas.
Any effective outer bypass needs to be built on new location and be designed to limit local traffic by spacing interchanges far apart only at major junctions.
An eastern bypass along US-301 would be the way to go, IMO.
However, for the sake of local traffic flow alone, one or both of the parkways to the west of I-95 going to I-66, whether it be VA-234 or VA-286, need to be upgraded to freeway standards. They already carry freeway levels of traffic and mixed with intersections does not create a safe driving environment.
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 10, 2022, 02:20:28 AM
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
But VA 234 intersects with VA 28 which runs by Dulles Airport.
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 10, 2022, 02:20:28 AM
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
But VA 234 intersects with VA 28 which runs by Dulles Airport.
How does that in any way respond to what Joseph R P said?
The timing of Joseph R P's comment is amusing to me because yesterday afternoon my mom stopped by our place to pick something up that I'd ordered for her. She was coming from Centreville and she took Braddock Road to the southbound Fairfax County Parkway. She grumbled about how it took forever to get from Braddock through the light at Popes Head Road a short distance away but that it then opened up such that it took her about 40 minutes total to make the trip (which is not bad for a trip starting at 3:40 PM). I was rather amused by that given that the Popes Head light is slated for removal when an interchange is constructed there.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 10, 2022, 09:16:43 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 10, 2022, 02:20:28 AM
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
But VA 234 intersects with VA 28 which runs by Dulles Airport.
How does that in any way respond to what Joseph R P said?
The timing of Joseph R P's comment is amusing to me because yesterday afternoon my mom stopped by our place to pick something up that I'd ordered for her. She was coming from Centreville and she took Braddock Road to the southbound Fairfax County Parkway. She grumbled about how it took forever to get from Braddock through the light at Popes Head Road a short distance away but that it then opened up such that it took her about 40 minutes total to make the trip (which is not bad for a trip starting at 3:40 PM). I was rather amused by that given that the Popes Head light is slated for removal when an interchange is constructed there.
It matters because the route that serves Dulles will be used more and therefore be a more profitable investment
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 09:59:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 10, 2022, 09:16:43 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 10, 2022, 02:20:28 AM
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
But VA 234 intersects with VA 28 which runs by Dulles Airport.
How does that in any way respond to what Joseph R P said?
The timing of Joseph R P's comment is amusing to me because yesterday afternoon my mom stopped by our place to pick something up that I'd ordered for her. She was coming from Centreville and she took Braddock Road to the southbound Fairfax County Parkway. She grumbled about how it took forever to get from Braddock through the light at Popes Head Road a short distance away but that it then opened up such that it took her about 40 minutes total to make the trip (which is not bad for a trip starting at 3:40 PM). I was rather amused by that given that the Popes Head light is slated for removal when an interchange is constructed there.
It matters because the route that serves Dulles will be used more and therefore be a more profitable investment
Perhaps unsurprisingly, you continue to fail to respond to his comment, which says (in relevant part) as follows and which has nothing whatsoever to do with Dulles Airport–but, even then, VA-286 serves Dulles via a very direct connection using the Dulles Access Road (it's one of the two most direct ways to Dulles Airport from where I live, for example, the other being the Beltway to the Access Road).
"VA-286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway .... VA-294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA-234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult."
But I know that comment doesn't say what you want to hear, so you'll automatically dismiss it as invalid.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 10, 2022, 10:11:59 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 09:59:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 10, 2022, 09:16:43 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 10, 2022, 02:20:28 AM
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
But VA 234 intersects with VA 28 which runs by Dulles Airport.
How does that in any way respond to what Joseph R P said?
The timing of Joseph R P's comment is amusing to me because yesterday afternoon my mom stopped by our place to pick something up that I'd ordered for her. She was coming from Centreville and she took Braddock Road to the southbound Fairfax County Parkway. She grumbled about how it took forever to get from Braddock through the light at Popes Head Road a short distance away but that it then opened up such that it took her about 40 minutes total to make the trip (which is not bad for a trip starting at 3:40 PM). I was rather amused by that given that the Popes Head light is slated for removal when an interchange is constructed there.
It matters because the route that serves Dulles will be used more and therefore be a more profitable investment
Perhaps unsurprisingly, you continue to fail to respond to his comment, which says (in relevant part) as follows and which has nothing whatsoever to do with Dulles Airport–but, even then, VA-286 serves Dulles via a very direct connection using the Dulles Access Road (it's one of the two most direct ways to Dulles Airport from where I live, for example, the other being the Beltway to the Access Road).
"VA-286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway .... VA-294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA-234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult."
But I know that comment doesn't say what you want to hear, so you'll automatically dismiss it as invalid.
Thanks for reminding me why you're on my "ignore" list
So... a poster brings up a valid argument and because it doesn't meet your narrative, you dismiss it? Makes a lot of sense why most users don't take your arguments seriously half the time.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2022, 11:04:25 AM
So... a poster brings up a valid argument and because it doesn't meet your narrative, you dismiss it? Makes a lot of sense why most users don't take your arguments seriously half the time.
He made an argument in favor of one route, I made an argument in favor of another. That's how a debate works
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
Thanks for reminding me why you're on my "ignore" list
Evidently, you must really adhere to that "ignore" list too, seeing as how you've just read and responded to my comments multiple times without having seen them by virtue of someone else quoting them (that is, you yourself obviously clicked on them to display the comments).
If you can't deal with opinions that disagree with yours, or with people who question your credibility when you quote a post and then fail to respond to anything it says, then you're probably too thin-skinned or too poorly-educated to be posting on a forum of this sort. But, hey, you're welcome to continue to destroy whatever credibility you may have had.
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2022, 11:04:25 AM
So... a poster brings up a valid argument and because it doesn't meet your narrative, you dismiss it? Makes a lot of sense why most users don't take your arguments seriously half the time.
He made an argument in favor of one route, I made an argument in favor of another. That's how a debate works
Okay. So here's another argument against your route: you seem to forget or ignore that, while 234 DOES intersect 28, it does so on the south side of Manassas. Which means one would have to travel through Manassas to access Dulles. Improving 28 south of Bull Run (or "cutting the corner" via Liberia Ave) would run into the same adjacent private property argument Joseph R P made regarding 234 but with several more orders of magnitude. Using 234 to 66 adds significant distance...bout 17 miles between 234/294 and 66/28. And before you bring up the Bi-County Parkway, that would put people on the BACK side of Dulles, not the side where the terminal is.
Quote from: kernals12 on June 10, 2022, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 10, 2022, 02:20:28 AM
VA 286 would be a much easier upgrade to a freeway considering the section between I 95 and VA 289 and the one between Popes Head Road and US 50 are already at freeway standards with more interchanges planned to be built between them. VA 294 and the Dumfries Road section of VA 234 have a lot of private properties along them so upgrading them to freeways would be much more difficult.
But VA 234 intersects with VA 28 which runs by Dulles Airport.
VA 234 does intersect with VA 28, but getting through Manassas from the Manassas area to the airport without the bypass existing yet is a nightmare. You can take VA 294 to Liberia Avenue and follow 28 up to where it becomes a freeway, but through Manassas and Centreville, 28 is as bad as US 1 in Woodbridge pre-widening, and isn't built up to as much traffic as it can handle and has a billion stoplights along it. Alternatively, you could follow 234 to 66 to 28, but that's an unnecessarily long acute-angled circumnavigation of Manassas.
So, if you're in Manassas, it sucks getting through Manassas, meaning that it's even worse getting through the city when you live outside of it, like in, for example, Dumfries. If you're in Dumfries, it's better to just take 123 to 286 and follow that to 66, which will almost instantly connect to the VA 28 freeway. This way, you'll be on a fully-expressway/freeway route without having to go through messy thoroughfare route that takes you in the longer route to your destination anyway.
I wonder if the Washington Commanders being in PWC MIGHT be the impetus needed to get I-95 in NOVA to become 12/14 lanes like the NJTP?
Quote from: bluecountry on June 11, 2022, 05:45:06 PM
I wonder if the Washington Commanders being in PWC MIGHT be the impetus needed to get I-95 in NOVA to become 12/14 lanes like the NJTP?
I thought VDOT concluded that it would not be cost effective?
Quote from: bluecountry on June 11, 2022, 05:45:06 PM
I wonder if the Washington Commanders being in PWC MIGHT be the impetus needed to get I-95 in NOVA to become 12/14 lanes like the NJTP?
That makes a pretty big assumption that, at least as of the past few days' developments, is unwarranted.
US 1 (Fraley Boulevard/Main Street) widening through Dumfries to begin soon: https://princewilliamliving.com/widening-fraley-boulevard-route-1-through-dumfries-on-pace-to-begin/
This project that will go on until 2027 is nearing its groundbreaking, which will replace a both 2-3 lane one-way (Fraley Boulevard) and semi-two directional (Main Street) pair of roads, into a six-lane thoroughfare and a two-lane local road (which may possibly become a business route). Currently, both are mostly lacking in pedestrian and cycling infrastructure, but dead-end sidewalks are planned to be extended and connected to each other and the Route 1 Sidepath, discontinuously appearing throughout the left side of US 1, will be expanded to follow along Fraley Boulevard.
This project will help ease traffic and keep the historic Dumfries area more peaceful from through traffic while also better-connecting cyclists and pedestrians to their destinations in one of Prince William County's more populous and fastest-growing areas.
Here's what the current situation looks like: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/38.5621/-77.3299
Thanks for that. I didn't know that was in the cards. I haven't driven south all that much in the past couple of years, and the southern extension of the I-95 express lanes has reduced the need to bail out to US-1. Be interesting to see that segment when it's done.
It will match up with the modern 6-lane routing already built through Triangle, which removed every business on US 1 in Triangle.
It looks like it is possible this Dumfries project will have to take out at least some businesses but wouldn't have to be the scorched earth widening Triangle was.
Quote from: Mapmikey on June 13, 2022, 08:16:34 PM
It will match up with the modern 6-lane routing already built through Triangle, which removed every business on US 1 in Triangle.
It looks like it is possible this Dumfries project will have to take out at least some businesses but wouldn't have to be the scorched earth widening Triangle was.
This similarly happened along US 1 in "Downtown" Woodbridge, some of the small businesses were relocated to newer buildings built on top of empty parking lot space on the other side of the highway. Thankfully, a six-lane US 1 between Quantico and the Occoquan River is nearing completion, so not much more damage can be done (but unfortunately I happen to live along one of the final stretches of four-lane US 1- between Cardinal Drive/Neabsco Road and Dumfries Road- so years of construction right outside my neighborhood is going to be real fun).
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 13, 2022, 06:24:55 PM
US 1 (Fraley Boulevard/Main Street) widening through Dumfries to begin soon: https://princewilliamliving.com/widening-fraley-boulevard-route-1-through-dumfries-on-pace-to-begin/
This project that will go on until 2027 is nearing its groundbreaking, which will replace a both 2-3 lane one-way (Fraley Boulevard) and semi-two directional (Main Street) pair of roads, into a six-lane thoroughfare and a two-lane local road (which may possibly become a business route). Currently, both are mostly lacking in pedestrian and cycling infrastructure, but dead-end sidewalks are planned to be extended and connected to each other and the Route 1 Sidepath, discontinuously appearing throughout the left side of US 1, will be expanded to follow along Fraley Boulevard.
This project will help ease traffic and keep the historic Dumfries area more peaceful from through traffic while also better-connecting cyclists and pedestrians to their destinations in one of Prince William County's more populous and fastest-growing areas.
Here's what the current situation looks like: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/38.5621/-77.3299
Okay, why is there even a two-way portion along the southbound lanes now? Is there any reason they just can't convert the existing one-way pair of Main Street and Fraley Boulevard into six lanes and still add the pedestrian and bicycle friendly features they want?
Quote from: D-Dey65 on June 17, 2022, 08:10:26 PM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 13, 2022, 06:24:55 PM
US 1 (Fraley Boulevard/Main Street) widening through Dumfries to begin soon: https://princewilliamliving.com/widening-fraley-boulevard-route-1-through-dumfries-on-pace-to-begin/
This project that will go on until 2027 is nearing its groundbreaking, which will replace a both 2-3 lane one-way (Fraley Boulevard) and semi-two directional (Main Street) pair of roads, into a six-lane thoroughfare and a two-lane local road (which may possibly become a business route). Currently, both are mostly lacking in pedestrian and cycling infrastructure, but dead-end sidewalks are planned to be extended and connected to each other and the Route 1 Sidepath, discontinuously appearing throughout the left side of US 1, will be expanded to follow along Fraley Boulevard.
This project will help ease traffic and keep the historic Dumfries area more peaceful from through traffic while also better-connecting cyclists and pedestrians to their destinations in one of Prince William County's more populous and fastest-growing areas.
Here's what the current situation looks like: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/38.5621/-77.3299
Okay, why is there even a two-way portion along the southbound lanes now? Is there any reason they just can't convert the existing one-way pair of Main Street and Fraley Boulevard into six lanes and still add the pedestrian and bicycle friendly features they want?
Because 90% of Dumfries would not be reachable from US 1 NB without going past Dumfries and turning around. There are zero roads between the alignments other than one near the south end of the split.
When I lived in Dumfries in 1995 the southbound alignment didn't even have 2 lanes all the way through town, causing big backups during the afternoons.
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 14, 2022, 12:55:09 AM
Thankfully, a six-lane US 1 between Quantico and the Occoquan River is nearing completion, so not much more damage can be done (but unfortunately I happen to live along one of the final stretches of four-lane US 1- between Cardinal Drive/Neabsco Road and Dumfries Road- so years of construction right outside my neighborhood is going to be real fun).
Is there a timetable yet for when that final stretch will actually be constructed? Have not seen or heard anything.
Moving forward road project wise, I would like to see Prince William prioritize funding the following projects next:
1. Van Buren Road Extension
2. Finishing the six-laning of US-1
3. Building an interchange at VA-234/Sudley Manor Drive (with a Wellington Road overpass)
4. Adding a designated right turn lane at VA-55/Catharpin Road
The NVTA and perhaps the next county road bond would probably be the most likely funding sources. While the US-15 two lane choke at the grade separated railroad crossing in Haymarket is certainly annoying, it is still not as needed imo as the projects above.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 02, 2022, 08:13:15 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 14, 2022, 12:55:09 AM
Thankfully, a six-lane US 1 between Quantico and the Occoquan River is nearing completion, so not much more damage can be done (but unfortunately I happen to live along one of the final stretches of four-lane US 1- between Cardinal Drive/Neabsco Road and Dumfries Road- so years of construction right outside my neighborhood is going to be real fun).
Is there a timetable yet for when that final stretch will actually be constructed? Have not seen or heard anything.
Moving forward road project wise, I would like to see Prince William prioritize funding the following projects next:
1. Van Buren Road Extension
2. Finishing the six-laning of US-1
3. Building an interchange at VA-234/Sudley Manor Drive (with a Wellington Road overpass)
4. Adding a designated right turn lane at VA-55/Catharpin Road
The NVTA and perhaps the next county road bond would probably be the most likely funding sources. While the US-15 two lane choke at the grade separated railroad crossing in Haymarket is certainly annoying, it is still not as needed imo as the projects above.
I'm not sure when the final stretch will be completed, but probably soon after the Dumfries and Woodbridge widening projects are completed.
Also, I'd love for the Van Buren Road extension to see the light of day. It would take so much traffic off of US 1 around Dumfries, but I feel like NIMBYs are going to stop it. I would also love to see either Van Buren or Gideon be extended to bypass Benita Fitzgerald and Dale to make driving between Dumfries and Potomac Mills a quick straight shot, but I think there's some museum being build near Dale and Gideon that would interfere with the right-of-way.
Quote from: Joseph R P on July 02, 2022, 08:11:55 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 02, 2022, 08:13:15 AM
Quote from: Joseph R P on June 14, 2022, 12:55:09 AM
Thankfully, a six-lane US 1 between Quantico and the Occoquan River is nearing completion, so not much more damage can be done (but unfortunately I happen to live along one of the final stretches of four-lane US 1- between Cardinal Drive/Neabsco Road and Dumfries Road- so years of construction right outside my neighborhood is going to be real fun).
Is there a timetable yet for when that final stretch will actually be constructed? Have not seen or heard anything.
Moving forward road project wise, I would like to see Prince William prioritize funding the following projects next:
1. Van Buren Road Extension
2. Finishing the six-laning of US-1
3. Building an interchange at VA-234/Sudley Manor Drive (with a Wellington Road overpass)
4. Adding a designated right turn lane at VA-55/Catharpin Road
The NVTA and perhaps the next county road bond would probably be the most likely funding sources. While the US-15 two lane choke at the grade separated railroad crossing in Haymarket is certainly annoying, it is still not as needed imo as the projects above.
I'm not sure when the final stretch will be completed, but probably soon after the Dumfries and Woodbridge widening projects are completed.
Also, I'd love for the Van Buren Road extension to see the light of day. It would take so much traffic off of US 1 around Dumfries, but I feel like NIMBYs are going to stop it. I would also love to see either Van Buren or Gideon be extended to bypass Benita Fitzgerald and Dale to make driving between Dumfries and Potomac Mills a quick straight shot, but I think there's some museum being build near Dale and Gideon that would interfere with the right-of-way.
https://thenovaauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/NVTA-FY2022-2027-SYP-PPC-Recommendations.pdf
While the Van Buren Road extension is indeed controversial, a vast majority of that opposition is coming from the Four Seasons retirement community that would lose their wooded buffer from I-95. Regardless, it appears that Prince William is still moving forward with the project as not only is the county currently undertaking an environmental impact study for it, but they also recently requested and received partial funding for its eventual construction from the NVTA. Ultimately, I'm glad that the county seems to understand that adding more capacity and local alternatives to the I-95 corridor is essential.
Here are the projects in PWC and Manassas that will either be fully or partially funded by the NVTA in the coming years (2022-2027):
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/northern-virginia-transportation-authority-to-finalize-6-year-program/article_487748fa-039c-11ed-9b06-93df251a0c87.html
QuoteThe Northern Virginia Transportation Authority is considering funding 20 projects for its 2022-2027 six-year program update while leaving six candidate projects unfunded, four of which were submitted by Prince William County.
For Prince William County, NVTA staff is recommending the full $53 million requested to extend the four-lane University Boulevard from Devlin to Wellington Road. The county already has additional Virginia Department of Transportation money and federal funding lined up to pay for the project.
"This is the last piece of University Boulevard in the [Comprehensive] Plan, and once this is completed we'll have a full University Boulevard from Route 29 all the way to Godwin Drive," County Planning Manager Paolo Belita told InsideNoVa. "It's a new facility, and there's a lot going on in that side of the county."
The recommendation is also to approve the full $25 million requested by the county to widen Old Bridge Road from Colby Drive to Minnieville Road. Staff is also recommending the partial approval of two funding requests: $8 of the $80 million requested to extend Van Buren Road from Route 234 to Cardinal Drive and $3 of the $61.2 million requested for a new interchange at U.S. 1 and Route 123.
At the 1-123 interchange, the county is looking to construct a new four-lane overpass that would carry 123 over U.S. 1 in Woodbridge to replace the regularly-congested, at-grade traffic signal intersection. Belita said the project has some federal funding lined up to begin the preliminary engineering for the interchange and that the county would be submitting for VDOT funding.
"We're trying to leverage it with other sources of funding," he told InsideNoVa.
In Manassas, NVTA staff is recommending approval for the full $8.8 million requested to add a third eastbound lane to Liberia Avenue from Route 28 to Euclid Avenue. That was the only project submitted by the city this round.
Of the six candidate projects that go unfunded by staff's recommended plan, four come from Prince William. Among those requests are the county's $96 million project to widen Old Centreville Road from the Fairfax County line to Route 28, $67.5 million for a new interchange at Prince William Parkway and Minnieville Road, $35 million to widen Devlin Road from Linton Hall to University Boulevard and $26.5 million to widen Neabsco Road from Route 1 to Daniel Ludwig Drive.Belita said the county plans to submit projects that received partial funding for VDOT SMART SCALE funding and will likely re-submit projects in the coming years. Primarily, he said, the chances of any one project are based on how the NVTA scores it and what other jurisdictions submit.
"It's all relative to what other jurisdictions are submitting. All our projects have some significant needs ... and it all depends on what projects are submitted and how much we ask," Belita said. "We'll look at other funding opportunities, we'll circle back to see if we need to look at our estimates again, do some more coordination."
And for anyone interested in the recommended NVTA 2022-2027 funding scenario for the entire region: https://thenovaauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/NVTA-FY2022-2027-SYP-PPC-Recommendations.pdf
I wonder if they'll work on widening the section of Telegraph Road between Prince William Parkway and Opitz Boulevard or Neabsco Mills Road before they do anything with Neabsco Road. Telegraph and Neabsco Mills are both important through roads that get so congested around rush hour while Neabsco Road is a dead end road with some neighborhoods and recreational areas along it. But I'm assuming a Widened Neabsco Road would make it easier and safer to walk/bike to Leesylvania State Park, Neabsco Eagles Park, and the Neabsco Creek Boardwalk as well as to the school and neighborhoods along it.
Quote from: Joseph R P on July 15, 2022, 06:48:58 PM
I wonder if they'll work on widening the section of Telegraph Road between Prince William Parkway and Opitz Boulevard or Neabsco Mills Road before they do anything with Neabsco Road. Telegraph and Neabsco Mills are both important through roads that get so congested around rush hour while Neabsco Road is a dead end road with some neighborhoods and recreational areas along it. But I'm assuming a Widened Neabsco Road would make it easier and safer to walk/bike to Leesylvania State Park, Neabsco Eagles Park, and the Neabsco Creek Boardwalk as well as to the school and neighborhoods along it.
Haven't heard anything regarding Telegraph Road, but Neabsco Mills Road is currently being widened to US-1:
https://www.pwcva.gov/assets/documents/transportation/Neabsco%20Roll%20Out%20Plot%202%2013%202020.pdf
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2022, 10:50:34 PM
Quote from: Joseph R P on July 15, 2022, 06:48:58 PM
I wonder if they'll work on widening the section of Telegraph Road between Prince William Parkway and Opitz Boulevard or Neabsco Mills Road before they do anything with Neabsco Road. Telegraph and Neabsco Mills are both important through roads that get so congested around rush hour while Neabsco Road is a dead end road with some neighborhoods and recreational areas along it. But I'm assuming a Widened Neabsco Road would make it easier and safer to walk/bike to Leesylvania State Park, Neabsco Eagles Park, and the Neabsco Creek Boardwalk as well as to the school and neighborhoods along it.
Haven't heard anything regarding Telegraph Road, but Neabsco Mills Road is currently being widened to US-1:
https://www.pwcva.gov/assets/documents/transportation/Neabsco%20Roll%20Out%20Plot%202%2013%202020.pdf
If I recall correctly, the Neabsco Mills Road widening was slated to being in 2021 (or maybe early 2022), but I drove on it a couple days ago and nothing has started on it yet. Maybe the news source I read it from misunderstood the date they hoped to begin the project as when it will actually happen (alas the article was from a couple years ago). I do hope it starts soon though, I'd love the elimination of the cars that try to squeeze out of the right-turn-only lane at College Drive and cut off everyone that understands what "right lane must turn" means.
Quote from: Joseph R P on July 16, 2022, 09:10:21 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 15, 2022, 10:50:34 PM
Quote from: Joseph R P on July 15, 2022, 06:48:58 PM
I wonder if they'll work on widening the section of Telegraph Road between Prince William Parkway and Opitz Boulevard or Neabsco Mills Road before they do anything with Neabsco Road. Telegraph and Neabsco Mills are both important through roads that get so congested around rush hour while Neabsco Road is a dead end road with some neighborhoods and recreational areas along it. But I'm assuming a Widened Neabsco Road would make it easier and safer to walk/bike to Leesylvania State Park, Neabsco Eagles Park, and the Neabsco Creek Boardwalk as well as to the school and neighborhoods along it.
Haven't heard anything regarding Telegraph Road, but Neabsco Mills Road is currently being widened to US-1:
https://www.pwcva.gov/assets/documents/transportation/Neabsco%20Roll%20Out%20Plot%202%2013%202020.pdf
If I recall correctly, the Neabsco Mills Road widening was slated to being in 2021 (or maybe early 2022), but I drove on it a couple days ago and nothing has started on it yet. Maybe the news source I read it from misunderstood the date they hoped to begin the project as when it will actually happen (alas the article was from a couple years ago). I do hope it starts soon though, I'd love the elimination of the cars that try to squeeze out of the right-turn-only lane at College Drive and cut off everyone that understands what "right lane must turn" means.
A similar situation is happening with the VA-234/University Blvd intersection improvement project. Was originally suppose to begin in 2020 and then after being delayed for unclear (maybe covid?) reasons, again during this summer. However as far as I can tell from driving through the other day nothing started on it yet either. My very far fetched hope is that the county is reconsidering the project given the other interchanges being built/planned on VA-234 and the massive new mixed use development that was recently approved northeast of the intersection near the Hylton Performing Arts Center. Additionally, having IMO less needed interchanges planned at VA-234/Minnieville Road and US-1/VA-123 but not here never made sense to me. A pedestrian bridge is now needed on top of the planned intersection improvement project. Why not just knock out two birds with one stone Prince William?
Ideally, VA-234 would be a freeway from I-66 all the way to Lake Jackson Drive and be getting the same gradual light removal approach that VA-28, VA-7 and now maybe soon even US-50 (in Loudoun) will get. From there to I-95, while improvements could be made I don't think interchanges are nearly as feasible.
https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2022/07/cash-infusion-moves-loudoun-co-closer-to-removing-stop-lights-on-us-50/
Here's what's being planned at the VA-234/Clover Hill Road intersection:
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/bowtie-intersection-planned-for-busy-manassas-corridor/article_6e69d486-2db5-11ed-bf79-fb678c107b39.html
Hopefully the design is flexible enough where if PWC wanted to convert it to an interchange down the road they could. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the public comment process plays out.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 18, 2022, 03:18:34 PM
Ideally, VA-234 would be a freeway from I-66 all the way to Lake Jackson Drive and be getting the same gradual light removal approach that VA-28, VA-7 and now maybe soon even US-50 (in Loudoun) will get. From there to I-95, while improvements could be made I don't think interchanges are nearly as feasible.
https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2022/07/cash-infusion-moves-loudoun-co-closer-to-removing-stop-lights-on-us-50/
I think they can squeeze in interchanges where the road travels alongside the PW Forest Park, but overall, it just feels a bit off making urban-style interchanges on a more rural road.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 08, 2022, 12:26:13 PM
Here's what's being planned at the VA-234/Clover Hill Road intersection:
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/bowtie-intersection-planned-for-busy-manassas-corridor/article_6e69d486-2db5-11ed-bf79-fb678c107b39.html
Hopefully the design is flexible enough where if PWC wanted to convert it to an interchange down the road they could. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the public comment process plays out.
Is it efficient to build a fix that can be upgraded to an interchange though? Or should they hold out until such is in motion?
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on September 09, 2022, 01:40:40 AM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on July 18, 2022, 03:18:34 PM
Ideally, VA-234 would be a freeway from I-66 all the way to Lake Jackson Drive and be getting the same gradual light removal approach that VA-28, VA-7 and now maybe soon even US-50 (in Loudoun) will get. From there to I-95, while improvements could be made I don't think interchanges are nearly as feasible.
https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2022/07/cash-infusion-moves-loudoun-co-closer-to-removing-stop-lights-on-us-50/
I think they can squeeze in interchanges where the road travels alongside the PW Forest Park, but overall, it just feels a bit off making urban-style interchanges on a more rural road.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 08, 2022, 12:26:13 PM
Here's what's being planned at the VA-234/Clover Hill Road intersection:
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/bowtie-intersection-planned-for-busy-manassas-corridor/article_6e69d486-2db5-11ed-bf79-fb678c107b39.html
Hopefully the design is flexible enough where if PWC wanted to convert it to an interchange down the road they could. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the public comment process plays out.
Is it efficient to build a fix that can be upgraded to an interchange though? Or should they hold out until such is in motion?
I would have held out until there was enough funding to build an interchange. Yes it would've taken much longer but as Loudoun has shown with VA-28 and VA-7 (it appears US-15 and US-50 are next), patience and probably better strategies to obtain funding, pays off.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 09, 2022, 04:30:51 PM
I would have held out until there was enough funding to build an interchange. Yes it would've taken much longer but as Loudoun has shown with VA-28 and VA-7 (it appears US-15 and US-50 are next), patience and probably better strategies to obtain funding, pays off.
Good point. I do wonder how US 15 is supposed to become a freeway; it sounds like even more of a challenge than any part of 50 from Fairfax to Aldie.
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on September 09, 2022, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 09, 2022, 04:30:51 PM
I would have held out until there was enough funding to build an interchange. Yes it would've taken much longer but as Loudoun has shown with VA-28 and VA-7 (it appears US-15 and US-50 are next), patience and probably better strategies to obtain funding, pays off.
Good point. I do wonder how US 15 is supposed to become a freeway; it sounds like even more of a challenge than any part of 50 from Fairfax to Aldie.
Just the Leesburg Bypass part. While US-15 north of Leesburg will be widened to four lanes, it will not be turned into a freeway.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 09, 2022, 08:49:25 PM
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on September 09, 2022, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 09, 2022, 04:30:51 PM
I would have held out until there was enough funding to build an interchange. Yes it would've taken much longer but as Loudoun has shown with VA-28 and VA-7 (it appears US-15 and US-50 are next), patience and probably better strategies to obtain funding, pays off.
Good point. I do wonder how US 15 is supposed to become a freeway; it sounds like even more of a challenge than any part of 50 from Fairfax to Aldie.
Just the Leesburg Bypass part. While US-15 north of Leesburg will be widened to four lanes, it will not be turned into a freeway.
Now that makes sense, but 15 being dualized out there is going to really change the landscape. It might still be useful considering all the traffic crossing the Potomac, though.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 08, 2022, 12:26:13 PM
Here's what's being planned at the VA-234/Clover Hill Road intersection:
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/bowtie-intersection-planned-for-busy-manassas-corridor/article_6e69d486-2db5-11ed-bf79-fb678c107b39.html
Hopefully the design is flexible enough where if PWC wanted to convert it to an interchange down the road they could. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the public comment process plays out.
The right-of-way does seem to be the right shape for a parclo, with both loops to the south. Plus, the bend in Clover Hill Road seems to be to allow the bridge over the Parkway to be built more easily.
Quote from: Roadsguy on September 10, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on September 08, 2022, 12:26:13 PM
Here's what's being planned at the VA-234/Clover Hill Road intersection:
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/bowtie-intersection-planned-for-busy-manassas-corridor/article_6e69d486-2db5-11ed-bf79-fb678c107b39.html
Hopefully the design is flexible enough where if PWC wanted to convert it to an interchange down the road they could. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the public comment process plays out.
The right-of-way does seem to be the right shape for a parclo, with both loops to the south. Plus, the bend in Clover Hill Road seems to be to allow the bridge over the Parkway to be built more easily.
That's exactly what I was thinking, too. I also thought that a SPUI could be squeezed in instead if that new warehouse isn't too close.
Instead of building an expensive intersection here they should just go ahead with an interchange at Clover Hill, same with the University Boulevard intersection, as well as move ahead with the proposed Sudley Manor SPUI/Wellington overpass. The 234-signed section of Prince William Parkway is not fit be a 4-lane stop-and-go expressway, considering it handles both the traffic coming from both PWP/294 and Dumfries Road/234, a lot of which is trucks.
Construction of the quadrant intersection has recently begun at Prince William Parkway and University Boulevard:
https://www.potomaclocal.com/2022/09/22/24-million-quadrant-intersection-work-to-begin-at-parkway-university/
https://www.potomaclocal.com/2022/09/29/prince-william-regional-officials-break-ground-on-jug-handle-intersection/
(https://www.potomaclocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/quadrant-intersection-university-blvd--600x413.jpg)
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
In my opinion, it would be better to have the VA 28 Bypass in Manassas built to provide a better connection from VA 234 to 28 towards Dulles, since a Bi-County Parkway would only take traffic directly to South Riding and require anyone heading to Dulles to make a long and sharp diversion off the parkway along US 50 to VA 28 to get into the airport. The Bi-County Parkway might be good for providing a more-direct route between Manassas and the Leesburg suburbs (but not really Dulles) and could relieve some VA 28 traffic (however the freeway section of 28 has never been badly congested that times I've been on it except for in the I 66 interchange construction site). All-in-all I think it would be better for PWC and Loudoun to work with what they have rather than make something new, especially with how controversial the Bi-County Parkway is.
Quote from: Joseph R P on November 04, 2022, 11:04:25 AM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
In my opinion, it would be better to have the VA 28 Bypass in Manassas built to provide a better connection from VA 234 to 28 towards Dulles, since a Bi-County Parkway would only take traffic directly to South Riding and require anyone heading to Dulles to make a long and sharp diversion off the parkway along US 50 to VA 28 to get into the airport. The Bi-County Parkway might be good for providing a more-direct route between Manassas and the Leesburg suburbs (but not really Dulles) and could relieve some VA 28 traffic (however the freeway section of 28 has never been badly congested that times I've been on it except for in the I 66 interchange construction site). All-in-all I think it would be better for PWC and Loudoun to work with what they have rather than make something new, especially with how controversial the Bi-County Parkway is.
I agree with your notion about the VA-28 Bypass being a better route to Dulles from VA-234. However, what I think is underestimated is amount of trips currently from Gainesville to the South Riding area and vice versa. If the entirely of Pageland Lane is widened, along with parts of US-29 and Sudley Road (west of the battlefield), these trips will increase regardless if roundabouts or a slow speed limit is put on Pageland. Gum Spring Road and Sanders Lane will become bottlenecks and there will be pressure to widen these roads too. I guess I just don't get the half ass-ery per say. The area is ruined and no longer rural, the main opponents of a Bi-County Parkway have sold their land. Might as well build it while you can get a good deal and avoid more problems in the future.
Quote from: Joseph R P on November 04, 2022, 11:04:25 AM
In my opinion, it would be better to have the VA 28 Bypass in Manassas built to provide a better connection from VA 234 to 28 towards Dulles, since a Bi-County Parkway would only take traffic directly to South Riding and require anyone heading to Dulles to make a long and sharp diversion off the parkway along US 50 to VA 28 to get into the airport. The Bi-County Parkway might be good for providing a more-direct route between Manassas and the Leesburg suburbs (but not really Dulles) and could relieve some VA 28 traffic (however the freeway section of 28 has never been badly congested that times I've been on it except for in the I 66 interchange construction site). All-in-all I think it would be better for PWC and Loudoun to work with what they have rather than make something new, especially with how controversial the Bi-County Parkway is.
Well, with the aforementioned proposals to create the western Dulles connector, that would go well with the Bi-County Parkway. Additionally, it still serves a good purpose to northern Loudoun given its connection to Northstar/Belmont Ridge.
All in all I'm still staunchly opposed to the 28 bypass, though I might like it a tad better than the BCP. Same goes for the Digital Gateway while I'm at it.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
Many things:
1. BOCS may have approved but this has got to have another hurdle. Lawsuits/appeals, etc. this is hardly a done deal. It is the 1st inning.
2. BOCS made a provision that Pageland would NOT connect to 66, and I believe only limited portions at most would be four lanes.
Quote from: Joseph R P on November 04, 2022, 11:04:25 AM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
In my opinion, it would be better to have the VA 28 Bypass in Manassas built to provide a better connection from VA 234 to 28 towards Dulles, since a Bi-County Parkway would only take traffic directly to South Riding and require anyone heading to Dulles to make a long and sharp diversion off the parkway along US 50 to VA 28 to get into the airport. The Bi-County Parkway might be good for providing a more-direct route between Manassas and the Leesburg suburbs (but not really Dulles) and could relieve some VA 28 traffic (however the freeway section of 28 has never been badly congested that times I've been on it except for in the I 66 interchange construction site). All-in-all I think it would be better for PWC and Loudoun to work with what they have rather than make something new, especially with how controversial the Bi-County Parkway is.
I was a Transportation Planner with PWC at the time RT 28 alternate study was finishing.
They explored several options, one of which was the more Northeast alignment closer to 66 and Loudoun. No chance that would ever happen, you can forget about it. Reason? That route goes through Bull Run Park and Ocoquoan water quality areas that needs an Army CORPS approval which will not happen.
Frankly, the bi-county parkway is an awful idea. The one idea I liked was the long demised tri-county parkway but that ship has sailed.
I noticed lot of new anticipated transportation projects have quietly recently begun in the Neabsco/Potomac Mills area while driving around the area.
A couple months ago, Opitz Boulevard was narrowed down to one lane westbound across I-95 to prepare for the addition of a sidewalk along that side as well as the southbound-facing 95 Express Lanes ramp. Adjacent to the Optiz Boulevard project is the tree-clearing on the site of the Potomac Mills commuter garage. Both projects (technically part of one megaproject) will improve multi-modal access to the Potomac Mills mall, the Stonebridge mixed-use neighborhood, and the area as a whole. Now if only they'd add more sidewalks, crosswalks, and traffic signals in the Potomac Mills complex to compliment this and make it easier to actually navigate the area by foot once you're there...
Furthermore, near the Northern Virginia Community College, tree clearing and utility work preparing for the widening and addition of pedestrian/cyclist paths for Neabsco Mills Road has picked up. This is particularly exciting for me because it will remove the point where cars that want to continue south on the road, but are in the right lane, won't jump out of the turn-only lane into the college into the travel lane at the last second, cutting everyone off.
Quote from: bluecountry on November 07, 2022, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
Many things:
1. BOCS may have approved but this has got to have another hurdle. Lawsuits/appeals, etc. this is hardly a done deal. It is the 1st inning.
2. BOCS made a provision that Pageland would NOT connect to 66, and I believe only limited portions at most would be four lanes.
Frankly, the bi-county parkway is an awful idea. The one idea I liked was the long demised tri-county parkway but that ship has sailed.
The best argument IMO against the bi-county parkway was all of the rural land in the area that it would open up for development. Now with that argument out the window (or at least appearing to be on track) I don't see the point of being against a four lane connection to Loudoun County while at the same time supporting the widening of Pageland Lane, US-29, and part of VA-234. All that will do is put more pressure on the residents of Saunders Lane to do the same thing as their Pageland neighbors (as Loudoun will undoubtably eventually widen Northstar Blvd and Gum Spring Road to the PWC line). Seems to me that this is a more complicated, expensive, and politically sneaky way for PWC to essentially do the Bi-county parkway while still officially being against it. At this point I would just say cut the crap.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on January 25, 2023, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on November 07, 2022, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
Many things:
1. BOCS may have approved but this has got to have another hurdle. Lawsuits/appeals, etc. this is hardly a done deal. It is the 1st inning.
2. BOCS made a provision that Pageland would NOT connect to 66, and I believe only limited portions at most would be four lanes.
Frankly, the bi-county parkway is an awful idea. The one idea I liked was the long demised tri-county parkway but that ship has sailed.
The best argument IMO against the bi-county parkway was all of the rural land in the area that it would open up for development. Now with that argument out the window (or at least appearing to be on track) I don't see the point of being against a four lane connection to Loudoun County while at the same time supporting the widening of Pageland Lane, US-29, and part of VA-234. All that will do is put more pressure on the residents of Saunders Lane to do the same thing as their Pageland neighbors (as Loudoun will undoubtably eventually widen Northstar Blvd and Gum Spring Road to the PWC line). Seems to me that this is a more complicated, expensive, and politically sneaky way for PWC to essentially do the Bi-county parkway while still officially being against it. At this point I would just say cut the crap.
Absolutely not. Horrible idea.
NO Bi-County Parkway.
Whatever growth happens it will induce way more sprawl.
Moreover, with limited $$$ why are we spending it on a corridor nobody but developers want?
If they want to pay to build, operate, and maintain that is one thing, but our tax dollars are needed in much different areas.
Moreover, before building a road as new route to Dulles, how about the existing routes there get more upgraded entrances to Dulles, because increasing traffic without entrances you know makes things worse.
Quote from: bluecountry on January 26, 2023, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on January 25, 2023, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on November 07, 2022, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
Many things:
1. BOCS may have approved but this has got to have another hurdle. Lawsuits/appeals, etc. this is hardly a done deal. It is the 1st inning.
2. BOCS made a provision that Pageland would NOT connect to 66, and I believe only limited portions at most would be four lanes.
Frankly, the bi-county parkway is an awful idea. The one idea I liked was the long demised tri-county parkway but that ship has sailed.
The best argument IMO against the bi-county parkway was all of the rural land in the area that it would open up for development. Now with that argument out the window (or at least appearing to be on track) I don't see the point of being against a four lane connection to Loudoun County while at the same time supporting the widening of Pageland Lane, US-29, and part of VA-234. All that will do is put more pressure on the residents of Saunders Lane to do the same thing as their Pageland neighbors (as Loudoun will undoubtably eventually widen Northstar Blvd and Gum Spring Road to the PWC line). Seems to me that this is a more complicated, expensive, and politically sneaky way for PWC to essentially do the Bi-county parkway while still officially being against it. At this point I would just say cut the crap.
Absolutely not. Horrible idea.
NO Bi-County Parkway.
Whatever growth happens it will induce way more sprawl.
Moreover, with limited $$$ why are we spending it on a corridor nobody but developers want?
If they want to pay to build, operate, and maintain that is one thing, but our tax dollars are needed in much different areas.
Moreover, before building a road as new route to Dulles, how about the existing routes there get more upgraded entrances to Dulles, because increasing traffic without entrances you know makes things worse.
I agree that limited taxpayer $$$ could and should be spent on way more pressing roadway improvements throughout the county. However, if this plan goes through, don't be surprised when PWC has to apply in a few years for funding to help cover the various needed roadway improvements those data centers will require. Overall this came down to a choice of either sprawl by new housing or new data centers, the latter of which particularly annoys me given that there is still plently of room for their designated development along VA-234 and Innovation Park.
Quote from: Jmiles32 on January 26, 2023, 04:34:51 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on January 26, 2023, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on January 25, 2023, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on November 07, 2022, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Jmiles32 on November 02, 2022, 03:58:11 PM
https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/updated-pw-digital-gateway-meeting-stretches-into-wednesday-morning/article_ed14f8f0-5a57-11ed-bd9d-f743c1753eea.html
https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/1626992/Item_3-A.pdf
(^Page 55 goes into potential infrastructure improvements)
Big changes are coming ahead for Prince William County as the controversial Digital Gateway rezoning, which would result in massive data centers being built along Pageland Lane (27.6 million square feet of data centers on 2,139 acres), was approved this morning by the PWC Board of Supervisors. As a result, Pageland Lane will be widened to four lanes in the near future along with other improvements like perhaps a direct connection from Pageland Lane to the I-66/VA-234 interchange. While I personally was not in favor of the digital gateway, now that it has been approved, I do think that there is now a legitimate opportunity for a new four-lane connection to Loudoun. However, instead of the previous "bi-county parkway" route that would encompass all of Pageland Lane and then go up Saunders lane (which would likely take many homes) connecting to Loudoun's Northstar Blvd, I think that instead, a better route would be to have an upgraded Pageland Lane veer northeast near Thornton Drive, cross VA-234 near Aldie Road, cross the Bull Run, and then tie into an upgraded Gum Spring Road in Loudoun by the quarry. Not only would this routing better connect to Dulles Airport (like the Bi-County Parkway was originally intended) and Loudoun County Parkway/Old Ox Road (thanks to the new Arcola Blvd), but I also suspect that Loudoun would have no problem widening Gum Spring Road south of where the current four-lane section ends. Just my two cents. If Prince Wiliam County is going to do this, might as well do it right.
Many things:
1. BOCS may have approved but this has got to have another hurdle. Lawsuits/appeals, etc. this is hardly a done deal. It is the 1st inning.
2. BOCS made a provision that Pageland would NOT connect to 66, and I believe only limited portions at most would be four lanes.
Frankly, the bi-county parkway is an awful idea. The one idea I liked was the long demised tri-county parkway but that ship has sailed.
The best argument IMO against the bi-county parkway was all of the rural land in the area that it would open up for development. Now with that argument out the window (or at least appearing to be on track) I don't see the point of being against a four lane connection to Loudoun County while at the same time supporting the widening of Pageland Lane, US-29, and part of VA-234. All that will do is put more pressure on the residents of Saunders Lane to do the same thing as their Pageland neighbors (as Loudoun will undoubtably eventually widen Northstar Blvd and Gum Spring Road to the PWC line). Seems to me that this is a more complicated, expensive, and politically sneaky way for PWC to essentially do the Bi-county parkway while still officially being against it. At this point I would just say cut the crap.
Absolutely not. Horrible idea.
NO Bi-County Parkway.
Whatever growth happens it will induce way more sprawl.
Moreover, with limited $$$ why are we spending it on a corridor nobody but developers want?
If they want to pay to build, operate, and maintain that is one thing, but our tax dollars are needed in much different areas.
Moreover, before building a road as new route to Dulles, how about the existing routes there get more upgraded entrances to Dulles, because increasing traffic without entrances you know makes things worse.
I agree that limited taxpayer $$$ could and should be spent on way more pressing roadway improvements throughout the county. However, if this plan goes through, don't be surprised when PWC has to apply in a few years for funding to help cover the various needed roadway improvements those data centers will require. Overall this came down to a choice of either sprawl by new housing or new data centers, the latter of which particularly annoys me given that there is still plently of room for their designated development along VA-234 and Innovation Park.
It did not have to be a choice of either. This is PWC just selling out.
Balls Ford and 66 Express lanes ribbon cutting was today.
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on April 27, 2023, 10:45:38 PM
Balls Ford and 66 Express lanes ribbon cutting was today.
I did not see anything about the VA 234/Balls Ford Rd interchange opening....
I saw this because VDOT Northern Virginia retweeted it:
https://twitter.com/ChairWheeler/status/1651991687466561546
Route 28 Bypass Proposal Released https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA (ftp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA)
Stupid. I thought this would be grade separated. Almost seems like what is the point. A real bypass has no traffic signals.
Quote from: bluecountry on May 05, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Stupid. I thought this would be grade separated. Almost seems like what is the point. A real bypass has no traffic signals.
I don't believe the proposal was ever anything more than a surface road... What defines a "real" bypass exactly? This road would bypass the downtown core and take through traffic away, seems like a bypass to me.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2023, 11:42:56 AM
Quote from: bluecountry on May 05, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Stupid. I thought this would be grade separated. Almost seems like what is the point. A real bypass has no traffic signals.
I don't believe the proposal was ever anything more than a surface road... What defines a "real" bypass exactly? This road would bypass the downtown core and take through traffic away, seems like a bypass to me.
To name but two, the Route 15 bypass of Leesburg has had traffic signals for as long as I can remember on the east side of town, and the Route 250 Charlottesville bypass had a light at McIntire Road for years, although it's now been eliminated; it still has another one at the intersection of Rugby and Hydraulic Roads.
Quote from: bluecountry on May 05, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Route 28 Bypass Proposal Released https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA (ftp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA)
Stupid. I thought this would be grade separated. Almost seems like what is the point. A real bypass has no traffic signals.
Plenty of bypasses have traffic signals. They don't have to be full freeways. All that matters is that they flow better than the road they're bypassing, which a VA 28 bypass of downtown Manassas and Manassas Park certainly would even if it has a few signals.
By my count, the existing route between the proposed VA 28 Manassas bypass endpoints has 14 signals (15 if going northbound...there's an extra signal on the NB side of the one-way pair) and is not limited-access. By comparison, the bypass looks like it will have 8 signals and be at least limited-access except at the southernmost end. The bypass will also be about a half-mile shorter.
I don't know why that link wants me to open Finder on my Mac, but here is the presentation: https://route28bypass.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/FINAL_PWC-PIMs-Meeting_PPT_Apr-2023.pdf
Quote from: bluecountry on May 05, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Route 28 Bypass Proposal Released https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA (ftp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA)
Stupid. I thought this would be grade separated. Almost seems like what is the point. A real bypass has no traffic signals.
Unlike current Route 28, this road will be limited access and it will have fewer signalized current intersections than the current one. Also, it seems like there's sufficient ROW to replace those intersections with interchanges at some point in the future, which would be needed since this is the most logical route for an outer Beltway.
This roadway has a boulevard cross section, curb & gutter, 11 ft lanes, narrow median, it's going to be no more than a 45-55 mph arterial. It will bring relief, but it's not a freeway.
Any "outer beltway" routing is likely to follow VA-234 / Prince William Parkway, which is a limited access highway with a freeway cross section, it just needs a few signalized intersections removed.
Quote from: kernals12 on May 05, 2023, 05:59:10 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on May 05, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Route 28 Bypass Proposal Released https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA (ftp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiqyr_WuN7-AhU4BzQIHXKnAocQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidenova.com%2Fheadlines%2Fproposed-route-28-bypass-route-released-dozens-of-properties-in-raze-zone%2Farticle_5c57ba8e-df75-11ed-a2c7-3797102ee299.html&usg=AOvVaw0CpPcSRQrT5lb094CDlCuA)
Stupid. I thought this would be grade separated. Almost seems like what is the point. A real bypass has no traffic signals.
Unlike current Route 28, this road will be limited access and it will have fewer signalized current intersections than the current one. Also, it seems like there's sufficient ROW to replace those intersections with interchanges at some point in the future, which would be needed since this is the most logical route for an outer Beltway.
There will be no full-freeway 'Outer Beltway' within our lifetimes, and I highly doubt there will ever be something remotely resemblant of a single designated route, let alone one built as a contiguous roadway. VA 28 through Manassas is not an ideal location for a 495-like freeway - there are too many homes and parks adjacent to it. It would be so much less-disturbant and cheaper to widen US 15 to 4 lanes up to Leesburg from Gainesville.
Other things that prevent this from ever happening are:
- the lack of room to build a bridge between Prince William and Charles Counties as well as the extreme expense of building such a large bridge
- the lack of room to build any freeway upgrades along Dumfries Road without tearing into the Prince William Forest Park, which is NPS land, or nearby developments (I'm not against changing some of the T-intersections to green-Ts or minor intersections to Michigan-lefts however)
- the opposition of the Bi-County Parkway from residents in the PWC rural crescent
- the lack of room to build a bridge between Loudoun and Montgomery Counties (again, impossible due to the requirement of cutting through NPS land as well as more subdivisions, some being prime real estate)
VDOT and the local governments need to focus on improving and expanding upon existing roads and transit rather than building new freeways through valuable and historic land inhabited by people who clearly do not want it.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 05, 2023, 08:33:37 PM
This roadway has a boulevard cross section, curb & gutter, 11 ft lanes, narrow median, it's going to be no more than a 45-55 mph arterial. It will bring relief, but it's not a freeway.
Any "outer beltway" routing is likely to follow VA-234 / Prince William Parkway, which is a limited access highway with a freeway cross section, it just needs a few signalized intersections removed.
At the very least there needs to be a grade separated interchange at Route 28, this is a disaster.
On June 6, the University Boulevard extension, Summit School Road extension + Telegraph Road widening, Rollins Ford Road/Estate Manor Drive and Rollins Ford Road/Song Sparrow Drive/Yellow Hammer Drive roundabouts, and the North Woodbridge–VRE station pedestrian bridge across US 1.
https://www.pwcva.gov/news/board-county-supervisors-budget-and-appropriate-funding-several-transportation-projects-across
https://www.pwcva.gov/news/board-county-supervisors-authorizes-public-hearing-interchange-minnieville-road-prince-william
Supervisors approved a public hearing on the Minnieville Rd/Prince William Pkwy interchange project. The current proposal is for a SPUI with the Parkway as the "through route". The project is mostly funded via the 2019 bond referendum. Tentative construction 2025-2027.
Looking at the PWC-County Mapper imagery from early 2023, it appears the tree-clearing process has begun for the Summit School Road extension.
QuoteIn a partisan vote Tuesday, the Prince William Board of County Supervisors took into consideration a new design proposed by the transportation department for the Route 28 bypass project.
The board's consideration of the new design allows the transit office to attempt to move forward in negotiations with Fairfax County leaders to potentially move along the stalled project that some officials believe is past the point of resuscitation.
Once the initial design work is complete, the board will decide between the originally proposed alignment, the new one or to not complete the final design work and stop the project.
The new design would bypass the section of existing Route 28, which is Centreville Road, in Prince William by extending Godwin Drive across Sudley Road as a four-lane divided roadway with a shared-use path and connect with Route 28 at a signalized intersection north of Bull Run Stream in Fairfax County, according to county documents.
There will be no tie-in with Lomond Drive, as officials say that would be disruptive to the neighborhood there. A new, longer and taller bridge over Bull Run and through the Bull Run Regional Park would replace the current bridge there.
Many houses would need to be knocked down and residents displaced in Prince William County near Alleghany and Boundary avenues for the bypass to be constructed, including several in the Bull Run Mobile Home Community.
Fairfax buy in
The project is still in its design and engineering phase. What was presented Tuesday is still considered preliminary and potentially subject to change in the future.
The new design's right-of-way faces an uphill battle with the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, which has been at an impasse on the project for years. According to Canizales, consultants said the project is possible without entering Fairfax County, which leaders in the county next door seem to support. But going that route would affect more homes and businesses in Prince William. Still, the option could be considered by the board, Canizales said.
Intended to alleviate congestion along Route 28, the controversial four-lane road was approved by the Board of County Supervisors in September 2020. The Northern Virginia Transportation Authority has allocated $89 million for the project. Any costs not covered by the NVTA or other grants would come from a Prince William infrastructure bond referendum approved by voters in 2019.
Preliminary traffic analysis done by the county's transportation department projects that 25 years out, the project would ease congestion on Route 28, Sudley Road and Liberia Avenue in Manassas and other thoroughfares.
But in and around the two termini of the road, on Centreville Road in Fairfax and Godwin Drive in Prince William, the projections are for slightly worsening traffic. That analysis also included the potential for an eight-lane Route 28 in the area of the bypass, as is currently envisioned by Fairfax's long-range plan.
'Kill the whole bloody thing'
Following tense exchanges among Prince William supervisors, the new path forward was backed by the Democratic majority of Chair Ann Wheeler, Neabsco Supervisor Victor Angry, Occoquan Supervisor Kenny Boddye and Potomac Supervisor Andrea Bailey.
Republicans Gainesville Supervisor Bob Weir, Coles Supervisor Yesli Vega and Brentsville Supervisor Jeanine Lawson opposed the measure.
Woodbridge Supervisor Margaret Franklin was absent and did not vote.
Republicans were angry that Democrats insisted on moving forward with a project they characterized as "dead," since some officials believe cooperation from Fairfax County is out of reach.
"Why don't we just call it a day and be done with this once and for all? ... Perhaps it's just time to kill the whole bloody thing and save us some time and money and some aggravation," Weir said. "It's pretty clear nobody wants it except certain vested interests."
Democrats were more optimistic about the future of the proposal. Wheeler maintained there remains great interest in the project among residents who wish to see a reduction in traffic congestion.
"The truth is, it is not dead," Wheeler said. "It's still on the table."
Republicans also raised concerns about the residents who would be displaced and were frustrated with the lack of answers from Canizales about what will be done to relocate them.
"Let's not forget, madam chair, that you and the majority preach this big game about equity and inclusion, about advocating for Black and brown communities – you can't have it both ways," Vega said to Wheeler. "The bulk of the people that you're displacing are members of minority communities, are they not? But now, all of a sudden, that doesn't matter."
https://wtop.com/virginia/2023/10/prince-william-supervisors-consider-new-route-28-bypass-design-in-partisan-vote/ (https://wtop.com/virginia/2023/10/prince-william-supervisors-consider-new-route-28-bypass-design-in-partisan-vote/)
Alright, well I now am totally against this boondoggle.
First, after the I66 mess in PWC, followed by the data center fiasco, and the proposal to open up the rural crescent for development, I now have no confidence any road improvements in PWC are intended to actually provide relief and instead are really to allow for more and more future sprawl that otherwise would never be possible.
-The I-66 toll lanes in PWC stole one free lane, and the expansion has provided the excuse that west PWC can support more housing than otherwise when in fact the expansion has made 66W worse in PWC.
- Now, this project also is advertising itself as traffic relief with more capacity when in fact the sole purpose is to show more capacity exists to justify more development in west PWC and Culpepper.
Second, Fairfax's reluctance says it all. Fairfax does not want this project in their county because the models show this will actually make traffic LOS WORSE in the intersection vicinity. Like the I-66 tolls, this is going to create worse intersections at the terminus because they will not make it grade separated. Instead this road will induce more volume and cancel out the current 28 expansion relief in Fairfax.
The Fairfax people know this and want the blame/ire all on PWC.
This is such a bad project, if you are going to build a bypass then do it right.
Have:
- Grade separate terminus at the junction with 28, at the very least
- Expand/improve the bridge over bull run
- Ideally have the entire segment be a real bypass, like Route 168, with no signals or at least the terminus in both areas be signal free
I am so glad I no longer work in local county transportation and have to sign off to these kinds of awful projects.
Board defers Prince William Parkway, Old Bridge Road intersection improvement project: https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/board-defers-prince-william-parkway-old-bridge-road-intersection-improvement-project/article_9882ab9c-9468-11ee-85ba-b7938d99f41d.html
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/insidenova.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/1f/01f36a6c-9469-11ee-b26a-171ecc29d7c3/6570c3c54c723.image.png?resize=1035%2C463)
Drove through the Brentsville Interchange southbound on 234 yesterday, all ramps appear to be open to traffic. Shared-use paths and various other finishing touches remain under construction, however.
Prince William Transportation Projects In Proposed NVTA 6-Year Funding (https://patch.com/virginia/woodbridge-va/prince-william-transportation-projects-proposed-nvta-6-year-funding)
QuoteFor the Fiscal Year 2024-2029 Six Year Program, Prince William submitted a request for $172 million to fund five projects:
* Route 234 and Sudley Manor Road interchange: $115 million
* Route 234 bicycle and pedestrian facility over I-95: $12 million:
* The Landing at Prince William Transit Center: $25 million
* Triangle mobility hub and first/last mile connection improvements: $10 million
* Route 234 operational improvements: $10 million
Would be nice to see more grade-separation improvements to 234. Also cool to see they're proposing more ways for pedestrians to cross over 95.
A roundabout at Sudley Road/Centreville Road is also included in this program: Manassas Roundabout Project In Proposed NVTA 6-Year Funding (//Manassas%20Roundabout%20Project%20In%20Proposed%20NVTA%206-Year%20Funding)
Hope it doesn't take out the Iron Horse Antiques store.