I know of one (http://goo.gl/maps/ojU5u) in Harrisburg.
I've seen more. What others are there? Better yet, any others that aren't that way for an obvious reason (such as being right after a bridge)?
Common in New Jersey, especially Essex County. By which I mean the norm and not the exception. Yet I think we've had this discussion - but I can't find it, so carry on.
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 26, 2012, 07:21:47 PM
Better yet, any others that aren't that way for an obvious reason (such as being right after a bridge)?
See the entire state of Wisconsin (except for the new lights (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5016.0), apparently), as well as the city of New Orleans
Quote from: pianocello on October 26, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 26, 2012, 07:21:47 PM
Better yet, any others that aren't that way for an obvious reason (such as being right after a bridge)?
See the entire state of Wisconsin (except for the new lights (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5016.0), apparently), as well as the city of New Orleans
And New Mexico and parts of Nebraska, Florida and Texas.
In places other than Florida or Texas where horizontal signals are common, they're usually used when the signals face a low clearance bridge, so the coming cars can see the signals without the bridge obstructing the view. The Harrisburg street view in the original post is a perfect example.
Quote from: Big John on October 26, 2012, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: pianocello on October 26, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 26, 2012, 07:21:47 PM
Better yet, any others that aren't that way for an obvious reason (such as being right after a bridge)?
See the entire state of Wisconsin (except for the new lights (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5016.0), apparently), as well as the city of New Orleans
And New Mexico and parts of Nebraska, Florida and Texas.
Yep-here in Lincoln, horizontal traffic lights greatly outnumber vertical ones. All new lights are horizontal, and vertical ones are changed to horizontal ones when they need to be replaced.
There are a few new ones in downtown Oklahoma City for some reason.
Lawton has a somewhat regular practice of mounting the left-turn signal horizontal and everything else vertical:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FW4BO8l.jpg&hash=f175bfa8d9c4b3db894c8259ddea4774df3b28f9)
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2012, 09:58:24 PM
There are a few new ones in downtown Oklahoma City for some reason.
Lawton has a somewhat regular practice of mounting the left-turn signal horizontal and everything else vertical:
Now
that is different and distinctly something I've never seen before. At least it makes you notice that the left turn signal is different than the others.
Quote from: Brandon on October 27, 2012, 07:48:51 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2012, 09:58:24 PM
Lawton has a somewhat regular practice of mounting the left-turn signal horizontal and everything else vertical:
Now that is different and distinctly something I've never seen before. At least it makes you notice that the left turn signal is different than the others.
Using a red arrow would make you notice the left turn signal is for turns, too :pan:
Quote from: roadfro on October 28, 2012, 01:52:52 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 27, 2012, 07:48:51 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2012, 09:58:24 PM
Lawton has a somewhat regular practice of mounting the left-turn signal horizontal and everything else vertical:
Now that is different and distinctly something I've never seen before. At least it makes you notice that the left turn signal is different than the others.
Using a red arrow would make you notice the left turn signal is for turns, too :pan:
From a distance, a red arrow and a red ball are difficult to distinguish.
Quote from: Brandon on October 28, 2012, 07:13:36 AM
From a distance, a red arrow and a red ball are difficult to distinguish.
From a distance, though, so are horizontal and vertical assemblies.
Quote from: Brandon on October 28, 2012, 07:13:36 AM
From a distance, a red arrow and a red ball are difficult to distinguish.
From that far of a distance, the difference wouldn't really matter...
Standard practice in Québec. See any signal on any MTQ road; it's the norm rather than the exception.
Ian/PennDOTfan,
I'm surprised that you didn't mention the signals at the Bishop Ave./Westpark Dr./Palmer Mill Rd. intersection in Springfield/Upper Darby Township (Delaware County). While the signalheads along Bishop Ave. were changed to the conventional vertical layout (to accomodate a Left-turn signal from Bishop to Westpark Dr.) roughly a decade ago; the signalheads facing Westpark Dr. & Palmer Mill Rd. are still the original horizontally-arranged signalheads.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 02, 2012, 08:21:43 AM
Ian/PennDOTfan,
I'm surprised that you didn't mention the signals at the Bishop Ave./Westpark Dr./Palmer Mill Rd. intersection in Springfield/Upper Darby Township (Delaware County). While the signalheads along Bishop Ave. were changed to the conventional vertical layout (to accomodate a Left-turn signal from Bishop to Westpark Dr.) roughly a decade ago; the signalheads facing Westpark Dr. & Palmer Mill Rd. are still the original horizontally-arranged signalheads.
I totally forgot about those. I always enjoy seeing them still up and running every time I pass by them!
For the record, I'm talking about these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3071%2F2519282653_737a56be03.jpg&hash=bd8b0ad885fee0cfcdd1480b1ec1e87059b50d5c)
Has there ever been any studies that determined if horizontal traffic lights are easier to see from a distance than the standard vertical traffic lights? There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason why some traffic lights are mounted horizontally, outside of perhaps vertical clearance requirements. The main argument I've heard against horizontal traffic lights is that they are more difficult to maintain than the standard vertical mounting and also considerably more expensive.
Do you prefer horizontal traffic lights? I have to say that I really like the (old?) style used in Quebec, that were horizontally mounted, book-ended with red lights and each color had its own shape (I think the reds were square, the yellow was a triangle and green was a circle.)
I do not know if any study has been done, but they are good for hurricanes and where overpasses generally block the standard type mount. They are even used under bridges where you do not have headroom to hang a traditional signal like under elevated subway lines or in SPUI setups.
From what I've seen it's state preference. Texas, New Mexico, Wisconsin and Nebraska as far as I know are the only states to use them on a widespread basis.
The more expensive part doesn't make sense to me, a signal head is going to be the same price whether it's horizontal or vertical. The number of lenses is what drives the cost there. The pole and structure hardware is where a lot of the cost is in signals.
Quote from: Steve on October 26, 2012, 07:42:24 PM
Common in New Jersey, especially Essex County. By which I mean the norm and not the exception. Yet I think we've had this discussion - but I can't find it, so carry on.
Last time I was in Newark, a lot of signals along NJ 21 have been converted to verticle assemblies. Even the new signals along Ferry Street in the Downtown Ironbound Section are now verticle. Then many along South Orange Avenue in Vailsburg were changed as well.
Atlantic City its the norm except on Atlantic Avenue and Absecon Boulevard. Then drawbridges seem to be converting to horizontal heads in Monmouth and Ocean Counties and even in Florida the new regular signals for drawbridges are horizontal as years ago they were flashing red lights. There still are a few of the old way left, but most now have been replaced.
Quote from: Milepost61 on November 20, 2012, 11:11:18 PM
From what I've seen it's state preference. Texas, New Mexico, Wisconsin and Nebraska as far as I know are the only states to use them on a widespread basis.
The more expensive part doesn't make sense to me, a signal head is going to be the same price whether it's horizontal or vertical. The number of lenses is what drives the cost there. The pole and structure hardware is where a lot of the cost is in signals.
I believe it has to do with mast arms verses span wire. I know someone who repairs traffic lights in Orange County, FL and he told me that mast arms are a lot more than span wiring. In fact, in two places along FL 535 in Kissimmee, FL there were mast arm signals at two of the intersections that have been replaced with span wire signal assemblies. I do not know why exactly, but I am assuming it is cost. When FDOT widened Orange Blossom Trail from Osceola Parkway in Kissimmee to Taft- Vineland Road in Orlando, all the lights except one was all converted to mast arms. Steve Homan, FDOT Public Information Spokesman, told me that the one signal that was replaced with another span wire set up (OBT and Osceola Parkway) was due to the fact Osceola County did not want to pay the additional expense of contributing to mast arm upgrades as Orange County did. That would be my guess why Osceola County did not upgrade the two signals on FL 535 with another mast arm assembly.
I guess then, California really must pay heavy for traffic lights as all signals in the Golden State are mast arms along with back plates on the overhead signal heads. Also, New Jersey with its many mast arms at one particular intersection, especially on divided highways is the norm. I have seen as many as eight arms at one intersection with two opposite each other on both sides and on the divided road you will have one mounted diagonally from the median or jersey barrier with the other on the corners with side mounted on all poles as well. I do not know if NJ or CA has the most signal heads at an intersection, but even the Garden State is flipping such a bill then.
Check this one out on US 1 & 9 at North Avenue in Elizabeth, NJ. It is an unusual large intersection with US 1 & 9 being so wide with four carriageways at this point.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elizabeth,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.677164,-74.197959&spn=0.003808,0.010353&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=9.097496,21.203613&oq=eli&t=h&hnear=Elizabeth,+Union,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.677356,-74.197083&panoid=Jjc_AeMzqPqCnsZ3gm_lig&cbp=12,276.33,,0,0
I don't like horizontal traffic signals because it can add to driver confusion to which signal head to follow (signal indications aren't always centered above the travel lane). With a 5-sectional head a horizontal signal can hang nearly the entire width of the lane, leading to a signal indication being on near the edge of the next travel lane over.
Here's one that uses the shapes I was referring to:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F11%2FColourblind_traffic_signal.JPG&hash=cfb50c3e04913e631200b7e906235c7e17ef4b79)
There is no reason why horizontally-mounted traffic signals would be more difficult to maintain or more expensive. For the most part, the use comes down to height/clearance limitations (as in mounting under a bridge) or state preference.
Mast arms versus span wire doesn't really have much to do with this topic...
Could be that since the horizontal-mount bracket hardware is less frequently used, it is more expensive, I guess.
Quote from: Quillz on November 20, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
Do you prefer horizontal traffic lights? I have to say that I really like the (old?) style used in Quebec, that were horizontally mounted, book-ended with red lights and each color had its own shape (I think the reds were square, the yellow was a triangle and green was a circle.)
I can say I have no preference over horizontal vs. vertical signals. As for the Quebec signals you speak of, as of a few years ago, they do not use the shaped lenses anymore. Here's what they look like now...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7120%2F7868895156_9fba224334_z.jpg&hash=508194209c9e96dcb1e1ce7f0266116ae2a4765c)
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 21, 2012, 06:01:26 AM
Could be that since the horizontal-mount bracket hardware is less frequently used, it is more expensive, I guess.
Usually, you can use the same mounting hardware for both. If you use the trombone arms that were a WisDOT standard for so many years/decades, then installing them vertically will cost more, as the mounting hardware was built-in for the horizontal configuration. A bracket would have to be added to mount them vertically on a trombone arm.
Quote from: Milepost61 on November 20, 2012, 11:11:18 PM
From what I've seen it's state preference. Texas, New Mexico, Wisconsin and Nebraska as far as I know are the only states to use them on a widespread basis.
Not on newer installations: End of the Horizontal Light [WI] (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5016.0)
Quote from: Quillz on November 20, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
For the record, I'm talking about these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3071%2F2519282653_737a56be03.jpg&hash=bd8b0ad885fee0cfcdd1480b1ec1e87059b50d5c)
I'd like to talk about that, too. Where is that?
Ah, Arcanum, Ohio. Thanks, Google image search!
Quote from: roadfro on November 21, 2012, 04:33:09 AM
There is no reason why horizontally-mounted traffic signals would be more difficult to maintain or more expensive. For the most part, the use comes down to height/clearance limitations (as in mounting under a bridge) or state preference.
Mast arms versus span wire doesn't really have much to do with this topic...
Actually I was trying to point out that maybe what Quillz heard about horizontal vs. vertical in cost was due to the cost about mast arm vs. span wire. Not that I was changing the subject or trying to change it.
However, someone else made the point about the trombone mast arms are more expensive to purchase as it requires more parts. That could be what he heard and it does make sense to me.
These are what we have all over Houston...I kinda like them. I am so used to seeing them everyday that I sometimes forget that that isn't what all signals are like.
Quote from: achilles765 on November 23, 2012, 01:50:07 PM
These are what we have all over Houston...I kinda like them. I am so used to seeing them everyday that I sometimes forget that that isn't what all signals are like.
Just go south to Galveston. They seem to have the standard signals along Broadway Avenue.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 02, 2012, 07:23:22 PM
Quote from: achilles765 on November 23, 2012, 01:50:07 PM
These are what we have all over Houston...I kinda like them. I am so used to seeing them everyday that I sometimes forget that that isn't what all signals are like.
Just go south to Galveston. They seem to have the standard signals along Broadway Avenue.
Case in point; I was just in Galveston in late September and didn't even take notice.
Driving on LBI (Long Beach Island, NJ) yesterday, there are several towns that one goes thru on the main roadway (Long Beach Blvd / Bay Ave) while traveling thru the barrier island. I headed South, from NJ 72 towards Holgate.
It appears that a few of the towns, for whatever reason, are using horizontal traffic lights. It's been about 2 years since I drove thru LBI and this is the first time I recall seeing them. In all cases, these horizontal lights are on a span wire diagonally across the roadway. In the other towns, the traffic lights are hung vertically on a span wire, or on a typical NJ mast arm. LBI is also the only area in NJ that uses span wires for permanent traffic lights.
Along this stretch of roadway, the majority of the lights aren't in operation, which is fairly typical during the low season on LBI, and stop signs are used on the side roads for traffic control. However, what was unusual was the number of traffic lights with no power whatsoever, which most likely can be attributed to Hurricane Sandy. The unwritten law on LBI is that Long Beach Blvd/Bay Ave is the thru street, and traffic doesn't need to stop at these non-operative lights (or it may be a written law, for all I know).
In this stretch of roadway, 2 lights were in full operation - at NJ 72 and Bay Ave, and one intersection slightly to the south. In many cases, the lights were on flash. In an unusual number of cases, the lights were out completely, and in 3 cases, one of the traffic lights spanning was completely missing!
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 11, 2012, 03:24:29 PM
Driving on LBI (Long Beach Island, NJ) yesterday, there are several towns that one goes thru on the main roadway (Long Beach Blvd / Bay Ave) while traveling thru the barrier island. I headed South, from NJ 72 towards Holgate.
It appears that a few of the towns, for whatever reason, are using horizontal traffic lights. It's been about 2 years since I drove thru LBI and this is the first time I recall seeing them. In all cases, these horizontal lights are on a span wire diagonally across the roadway. In the other towns, the traffic lights are hung vertically on a span wire, or on a typical NJ mast arm. LBI is also the only area in NJ that uses span wires for permanent traffic lights.
Along this stretch of roadway, the majority of the lights aren't in operation, which is fairly typical during the low season on LBI, and stop signs are used on the side roads for traffic control. However, what was unusual was the number of traffic lights with no power whatsoever, which most likely can be attributed to Hurricane Sandy. The unwritten law on LBI is that Long Beach Blvd/Bay Ave is the thru street, and traffic doesn't need to stop at these non-operative lights (or it may be a written law, for all I know).
In this stretch of roadway, 2 lights were in full operation - at NJ 72 and Bay Ave, and one intersection slightly to the south. In many cases, the lights were on flash. In an unusual number of cases, the lights were out completely, and in 3 cases, one of the traffic lights spanning was completely missing!
LBI is still a Sandy war zone. Doesn't surprise me that the lights are out - in fact, I'm surprised they let general traffic explore the island already. The written law is to always stop at all non-operative traffic lights. Unwritten law is like NJ traffic circle driving - you're just supposed to know.
Quote from: Steve on December 11, 2012, 08:56:52 PM
LBI is still a Sandy war zone. Doesn't surprise me that the lights are out - in fact, I'm surprised they let general traffic explore the island already. The written law is to always stop at all non-operative traffic lights. Unwritten law is like NJ traffic circle driving - you're just supposed to know.
For the most part - it's actually not too bad out there. I didn't see any sand at all along Long Beach Blvd. In a few areas there were still some minor debris in the stripped median area. And piles and piles of trash lined many of the sidewalks. The road surface was smooth. It appeared that the few homes that were occupied did have electricity.
The side roads tended to be worse, mostly because there's less room to pile the trash off the roadway. And Holgate, at the southern end, was truly off limits - a sign there stated the road was open to residents and contractors only.
The Wawas and 7-Elevens (2 or 3 each) remained closed. A few businesses were open, mostly where LB Blvd & 72 meet.
The shape coded signal lenses are still allowed in Quebec, and are still shown in the MTQ traffic manual. The province no longer uses them on provincial highways, but they are still used in some local jurisdictions like Laval. PEI also still uses these.
Cleaned up unused IMG tags - were you trying to insert photos?
Out west, they're generally only used in SPUI [interchanges] on the underside of an overpass, or signals on mast-arms that may be obstructed by overpasses/tunnels.
Quote from: Ian on November 21, 2012, 09:11:57 AM
Quote from: Quillz on November 20, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
Do you prefer horizontal traffic lights? I have to say that I really like the (old?) style used in Quebec, that were horizontally mounted, book-ended with red lights and each color had its own shape (I think the reds were square, the yellow was a triangle and green was a circle.)
I can say I have no preference over horizontal vs. vertical signals. As for the Quebec signals you speak of, as of a few years ago, they do not use the shaped lenses anymore. Here's what they look like now...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7120%2F7868895156_9fba224334_z.jpg&hash=508194209c9e96dcb1e1ce7f0266116ae2a4765c)
They still are allowed and are still used in some cities like Loungil. But on MTQ they have been discontinued.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on June 14, 2013, 09:59:40 PM
Out west, they're generally only used in SPUI [interchanges] on the underside of an overpass, or signals on mast-arms that may be obstructed by overpasses/tunnels.
Rare if nearly non-existent in Oregon or the Portland metro area, but I found these examples:
Columbia House Boulevard, SPUI interchange underneath SR 14, Vancouver (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Vancouver,+WA&hl=en&ll=45.618199,-122.652107&spn=0.004664,0.008256&sll=44.949889,-122.989913&sspn=0.00237,0.004128&t=h&hnear=Vancouver,+Clark,+Washington&z=18&layer=c&cbll=45.618259,-122.651985&panoid=mhYAbVVOTAL-1xcvbcAd2Q&cbp=12,46.74,,0,0.18)
Old Youngs Bay Bridge, U.S. 101 Business Loop, near Astoria (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Astoria,+OR&hl=en&ll=46.168575,-123.838127&spn=0.003266,0.008256&sll=44.145447,-120.583402&sspn=6.929196,16.907959&t=h&hnear=Astoria,+Clatsop,+Oregon&z=18&layer=c&cbll=46.16838,-123.838104&panoid=vq3if5P7S9XW2GuSaJwghA&cbp=12,11.38,,0,1.58)
http://goo.gl/maps/mjO9H
Broadway in Seattle uses horizontal signals.
Eastbound US 60/Green I-24 in Paducah, just past the I-24 interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3771%2F9410869854_43e7398a43.jpg&hash=768b00718ceac1c74fab78b9cf7b6f26fbfb02e8)
There's a few around Chicago, mainly under the L tracks in the Loop.
This one is on Grand underneath Lake Shore Drive
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6064%2F6022574671_76b3161de0_z.jpg&hash=0c384c24b0cfa6a5fdcb2f74381b4158360978fb)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 02, 2013, 06:06:38 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/mjO9H
Broadway in Seattle uses horizontal signals.
Looks like that's due to the overhead power wires for buses.
There's one on US 13/40 at the intersection with DE 273 near an airport.
Why DelDOT decided to use them there is beyond me.
Quote from: Mark68 on September 06, 2013, 05:38:25 AM
Looks like that's due to the overhead power wires for buses.
There's plenty of streets in Seattle that have overhead lines like that with vertical lights. 15th Ave NE by UW. NW Market St, N 45th St, and NE 45th St through Ballard, Wallingford and U District. etc
Broadway is the only one I know of in Seattle apart from the underside of overpasses and some drawbridge lifts (SR-513 Montlake Blvd, Univ Bridge (Eastlake Ave), Fremont Bridge (Fremont Ave N), Ballard Bridge (15th Ave NW), etc.)
Quote from: achilles765 on November 23, 2012, 01:50:07 PM
These are what we have all over Houston...I kinda like them. I am so used to seeing them everyday that I sometimes forget that that isn't what all signals are like.
Vertical traffic signals can be found in Galveston:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7158%2F6820576265_c44710bb04.jpg&hash=aec1d0a6179262725900405e9c3b658c3f0f31e2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22306412@N07/6820576265/)
100_0354 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22306412@N07/6820576265/) by FreewayDan (http://www.flickr.com/people/22306412@N07/), on Flickr
...and believe it or not, vertical traffic lights can be found north of downtown Houston along portions of METRORail's North Line extension currently under construction:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8532%2F8669030867_481bce73af.jpg&hash=b64d4955a43ace004aba93337d97fffa554bec92) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23333264@N00/8669030867/)
Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23333264@N00/8669030867/) by bill barfield (http://www.flickr.com/people/23333264@N00/), on Flickr
They're fairly common in New York, particularly at intersections that are at overpasses: http://goo.gl/maps/wtDQn
There can be sight restrictions just after an underpass, so agencies often place horizontal traffic signals right after an underpass where they use vertical or doghouse signals everywhere else.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2012, 09:58:24 PM
There are a few new ones in downtown Oklahoma City for some reason.
Lawton has a somewhat regular practice of mounting the left-turn signal horizontal and everything else vertical:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FW4BO8l.jpg&hash=f175bfa8d9c4b3db894c8259ddea4774df3b28f9)
That seems to be a reverse with what happens in Alberta. Alberta and most of Saskatchewan go for horizontal traffic lights, however in Alberta (particularly Edmonton), they'll mount the left-turn signal vertical and everything else horizontal.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcTwlfU09JUCJbpYEJ2-tHfVifLZwTKZ1-T-3tAdC4aS4SMT5tUhEw&hash=6052134e107e831e8714fc1fd4aabbd2ed9f5833)
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
Quote from: mrsman on October 13, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
For countries that drive on the right, red is always on the left. For countries that drive on the left, red is often on the right.
Quote from: mrsman on October 13, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
That intersection's entire light, mast and post assembly is ugly!
Quote from: realjd on October 13, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: mrsman on October 13, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
For countries that drive on the right, red is always on the left. For countries that drive on the left, red is often on the right.
The Signals at Watt Ave and Airbase Drive in North Highlands were also horizontal and arranged at R-Y-G-Y-R with the green being an ahead arrow. These have since been replaced.
Quote from: realjd on October 13, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: mrsman on October 13, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
For countries that drive on the right, red is always on the left. For countries that drive on the left, red is often on the right.
At least in the US, it's always that way to satisfy the ADA. On that note, I have witnessed a handful of installations where it was reversed, but it typically only lasted a week, maybe two. Those were all new installations (some tech apparently wasn't watching their work too carefully :pan:) and were on reverse-arm mounts (https://www.google.com/maps?ll=43.168901,-89.266706&spn=0.000004,0.003484&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.168901,-89.266706&panoid=wSGYjYmJ9CmO0YyapzF_yQ&cbp=12,38.83,,0,4.64).
Quote from: DaBigE on October 14, 2013, 12:48:43 AM
Quote from: realjd on October 13, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: mrsman on October 13, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
For countries that drive on the right, red is always on the left. For countries that drive on the left, red is often on the right.
At least in the US, it's always that way to satisfy the ADA. On that note, I have witnessed a handful of installations where it was reversed, but it typically only lasted a week, maybe two. Those were all new installations (some tech apparently wasn't watching their work too carefully :pan:) and were on reverse-arm mounts (https://www.google.com/maps?ll=43.168901,-89.266706&spn=0.000004,0.003484&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.168901,-89.266706&panoid=wSGYjYmJ9CmO0YyapzF_yQ&cbp=12,38.83,,0,4.64).
I've only seen exceptions to the rule in a handful of left driving Caribbean countries. There are a few installations in the Bahamas that look FDOT standard, including having the red on the left. They probably used American contractors.
Quote from: Indyroads on October 13, 2013, 03:05:22 PM
Quote from: realjd on October 13, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: mrsman on October 13, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Is there a standard as to which way the lights are oriented?
It seems like most horizontal lights are R-Y-G. Are there any that go the opposite way, G-Y-R?
In Sacramento, at the corner of Fulton and El Camino, there is one horizontal light. Horizontal lights are very rare in California. To make it stand out, the light has a weird configuation of RRYYG, with the green light being a green straight arrow.
I can't figure out why this light isn't vertical.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Sacramento,+CA&hl=en&ll=38.6107,-121.401243&spn=0.035747,0.055275&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.281493,3.537598&oq=sacr&hnear=Sacramento,+California&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.610678,-121.401471&panoid=nTVcwn0r6iRLeccW30snkQ&cbp=12,89.16,,0,12.44
For countries that drive on the right, red is always on the left. For countries that drive on the left, red is often on the right.
The Signals at Watt Ave and Airbase Drive in North Highlands were also horizontal and arranged at R-Y-G-Y-R with the green being an ahead arrow. These have since been replaced.
Here is an example of the R-Y-G-Y-R horizontal signal I was talking about. As far as I know this is the only one that still exists in the Sacramento area http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV (http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV)
Carthage, Missouri has a horizontal traffic light at the intersection of Interstate 49 and MO 96/171 (which is also Central Ave. in Carthage). This intersection has one horizontal traffic light in each direction of MO 96/171 as you go under Interstate 49.
There is one between two neighborhood collectors that I pass by regularly. For some reason, they have insanely short yellow phases, and I see people running it all the time.
Quote from: Quillz on November 21, 2012, 12:34:40 AM
Here's one that uses the shapes I was referring to:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F11%2FColourblind_traffic_signal.JPG&hash=cfb50c3e04913e631200b7e906235c7e17ef4b79)
I love Quebec's and PEI's Symbolic shape coded traffic signals. And have these lenses in my collection. I also have video of these which I have filmed in Quebec. I'm surprised that associations for the blind haven't pushed these signal lenses in the US for colour blind drivers under the ADA. I really thought they would take hold in Canada. I know British Columbia was thinking of using them for a while. PEI does use them. They were used in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but never made it to wide spread use. They have since been replaced with standard signals in those provinces. Also, Quebec stopped using them on provincially maintained highways, but is still legal, there. And still maintained in some municipalities. I have these provincial standards. By the way, these signals are placed in the horizontal position, which you show, and, vertical.
There's a bit of a controversy about such measures in that a lot of disable people want to prove they can be part of society and don't want us making special accommodations. Obviously there's now way a wheelchair can get through a door that's too narrow, but things like different sizes of currency or accessible pedestrian signals or presumably shapes of traffic signals aren't universally supported- the National Federation of the Blind does not support installing APS signals just on the matter of principle. But that's one reason I don't like horizontal signals, to me it's never intuitive which side the red is on.
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 29, 2013, 10:45:11 PM
There's a bit of a controversy about such measures in that a lot of disable people want to prove they can be part of society and don't want us making special accommodations. Obviously there's now way a wheelchair can get through a door that's too narrow, but things like different sizes of currency or accessible pedestrian signals or presumably shapes of traffic signals aren't universally supported- the National Federation of the Blind does not support installing APS signals just on the matter of principle. But that's one reason I don't like horizontal signals, to me it's never intuitive which side the red is on.
How is it any more or less intuitive for red being on the top? Red on the left is the standard worldwide for countries that drive on the right.
Regarding Averill's post, it's also worth noting that most of Québec's horizontal signals have double reds, presumably as an additional measure for the colourblind.
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 29, 2013, 10:45:11 PM
There's a bit of a controversy about such measures in that a lot of disable people want to prove they can be part of society and don't want us making special accommodations. Obviously there's now way a wheelchair can get through a door that's too narrow, but things like different sizes of currency or accessible pedestrian signals or presumably shapes of traffic signals aren't universally supported- the National Federation of the Blind does not support installing APS signals just on the matter of principle. But that's one reason I don't like horizontal signals, to me it's never intuitive which side the red is on.
I can assure you as someone who is more or less able bodied that some of the accommodations for the handicapped have helped me and I appreciate many of the measures. I use wheelchair ramps at sidewalks when pushing a stroller. I use automatic doors when I'm carrying lots of things in my hands. I occasionally use closed captioning when I can read a lot faster than a narrator can speak on certain videos. And the traffic signals for the blind that speak to you, help get my attention and let me know that it's time to cross.
MODOT recently put in a traffic light at the interchange of I-44 and US 166/US 400 (which is the interchange you use to get to Downstream Casino). One of those traffic lights is horizontal.
Quote from: David Jr. on January 08, 2014, 08:17:40 PM
MODOT recently put in a traffic light at the interchange of I-44 and US 166/US 400 (which is the interchange you use to get to Downstream Casino). One of those traffic lights is horizontal.
MoDOT tends to make traffic lights facing bridges horizontal so traffic stopped under the bridge has an unobstructed view of the signal heads.
When I was a kid, (yeah, 1960s) Sioux City Iowa had some horizontal traffic signals downtown. Not sure when they changed them as I am an infrequent visitor there.
It seems to me that some states that originally installed their signal heads horizontally are now beginning to convert them to vertical orientation. For instance Texas (areas like DFW metro) and even in parts of Florida. are there other places doing this.
^^ Wisconsin is gradually switching to all vertical.
Quote from: Thing 342 on October 19, 2013, 03:15:29 PM
There is one between two neighborhood collectors that I pass by regularly. For some reason, they have insanely short yellow phases, and I see people running it all the time.
I saw a handful of them in Hampton (Phoebus) and Newport News (VA 143) two weeks ago.
Quote from: Indyroads on January 10, 2014, 03:28:56 PM
It seems to me that some states that originally installed their signal heads horizontally are now beginning to convert them to vertical orientation. For instance Texas (areas like DFW metro) and even in parts of Florida. are there other places doing this.
Florida has been going the other way. Areas like the treasure coast that have had vertical signals have been going horizontal. Also, the panhandle.
Here's another example: This past Memorial Day weekend, me and my mom drove over to Wichita, KS (where we lived throughout most of the 1970's while my father was stationed at McConnell AFB) for a vacation. In Wichita, the intersection of Oliver St. and George Washington Blvd. is underneath the Kansas Turnpike (I-35). The traffic lights at this intersection are attached to the underside of the bridge that carries I-35 over the intersection, and all those traffic lights are horizontal.
Quote from: David Jr. on May 29, 2014, 11:54:06 PM
Here's another example: This past Memorial Day weekend, me and my mom drove over to Wichita, KS (where we lived throughout most of the 1970's while my father was stationed at McConnell AFB) for a vacation. In Wichita, the intersection of Oliver St. and George Washington Blvd. is underneath the Kansas Turnpike (I-35). The traffic lights at this intersection are attached to the underside of the bridge that carries I-35 over the intersection, and all those traffic lights are horizontal.
Indeed they are. But, it is an abberation more than a style. Usually, lights are mounted to masts in Wichita, even at overpass settings. There are three times where they are not: the example given by David, Kellogg (U.S. 54/400) and West Street, and Webb Road and 29th Street North.
With David's example, they are mounted to the Turpike overpass because there was just no room for masts, due to the weird convergence of a north-south street, a SE-NW boulevard, and the Turnpike flying over the intersection at a NE-SW direction (Streetview: http://goo.gl/maps/AbDZk). As a kid, I always thought it was weird, but it went along with the other strange lights that used to be found on South Oliver on the way to Boeing - lane restriction signals. When they re-did the road and widened it in the 90s, those disappeared forever.
Kellogg and West is a standard situation with the E-W freeway overpassing N-S West Street. The signals for north and south-bound West Street, and the paired left turn signals, are mounted to the bridge, on either side. They are, however vertical. I assume masts could not be used due to the complex lane configurations under the bridge, and the lack of traffic islands in proper locations (Streetview: http://goo.gl/maps/9dYzU).
Lastly, there is Webb Road and 29th Street North. In this instance, the signals are attached to masts, even though the K-96 overpass cuts over the northern edge of the intersection. (When K-96 was built, 29th was made to curve to the south and back east to allow for the overpass. It was then, and still is, a T-intersection; but then because of Jabara Airport, and now because of K-96.) The lights for north-bound Webb are vertical and paired with the lights for 29th as the mast is angled; however, the lights for south-bound Webb are attached to a seperate mast, and hang down vertically so they can be seen below the overpass bridge. Streetview northbound: http://goo.gl/maps/5e9cu; south-bound: http://goo.gl/maps/v7rbR).
I cannot recall any others in Wichita, at least that are still remaining.
ICTRds
Quote from: WichitaRoads on May 31, 2014, 02:43:28 PM
Kellogg and West is a standard situation with the E-W freeway overpassing N-S West Street. The signals for north and south-bound West Street, and the paired left turn signals, are mounted to the bridge, on either side. They are, however vertical. I assume masts could not be used due to the complex lane configurations under the bridge, and the lack of traffic islands in proper locations (Streetview: http://goo.gl/maps/9dYzU).
That's a SPUI intersection, so not totally standard. It is often not practical to use mast arms when the SPUI is under the freeway due to height clearances and sight lines to the signal heads--attaching to the overpass is easier and saves on the hardware of mast arms.
Quote from: roadfro on May 31, 2014, 03:57:34 PM
Quote from: WichitaRoads on May 31, 2014, 02:43:28 PM
Kellogg and West is a standard situation with the E-W freeway overpassing N-S West Street. The signals for north and south-bound West Street, and the paired left turn signals, are mounted to the bridge, on either side. They are, however vertical. I assume masts could not be used due to the complex lane configurations under the bridge, and the lack of traffic islands in proper locations (Streetview: http://goo.gl/maps/9dYzU).
That's a SPUI intersection, so not totally standard. It is often not practical to use mast arms when the SPUI is under the freeway due to height clearances and sight lines to the signal heads--attaching to the overpass is easier and saves on the hardware of mast arms.
Fair enough... I didn't even think about it being SPUI.
ICTRds
Quote from: Indyroads on October 14, 2013, 06:36:20 PM
Here is an example of the R-Y-G-Y-R horizontal signal I was talking about. As far as I know this is the only one that still exists in the Sacramento area http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV (http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV)
The agencies in the Sacramento area hate putting a decent number of signal heads over the road so much they will instead take the chances with liability for nonstandard designs? Interesting.
Quote from: Alex4897 on September 06, 2013, 07:50:09 PM
There's one on US 13/40 at the intersection with DE 273 near an airport.
Why DelDOT decided to use them there is beyond me.
Perhaps because it's near an airport? There used to be one case of horizontal lights in Lafayette, LA--right by the airport. (These have since been replaced with pole-mounted horizontals with yellow splashguards--apparently a new DOTD convention on state highways.)
Quote from: jbnv on June 05, 2014, 12:34:53 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on September 06, 2013, 07:50:09 PM
There's one on US 13/40 at the intersection with DE 273 near an airport.
Why DelDOT decided to use them there is beyond me.
Perhaps because it's near an airport?
He's referring to this setup. The only thing I see is that spanwire is lower than the others, so horizontal lights don't need as much height. Even though the air traffic pattern takes planes directly over this intersection at a low altitude (note the metal standard rising from the traffic island which holds the air traffic guiding lights), there is nothing else unique regarding the traffic lights themselves. In fact, these specific horizontal lights wouldn't even be in an aircraft's line of sight. The ones facing 13/40 North/East would be much more visible to aircraft.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 01, 2014, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: Indyroads on October 14, 2013, 06:36:20 PM
Here is an example of the R-Y-G-Y-R horizontal signal I was talking about. As far as I know this is the only one that still exists in the Sacramento area http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV (http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV)
The agencies in the Sacramento area hate putting a decent number of signal heads over the road so much they will instead take the chances with liability for nonstandard designs? Interesting.
I don't think anything is wrong here. The second signal head is California-standard pole-mounted to the right. The double-red is not unheard of. Plenty of signals have them (albeit on top of each other). The double-amber is not something I've seen before, and you could make an argument that a liability arises, but for all we know, this intersection might have a problem with people jumping the red/speeding up on amber and they want a higher amount of "exposure" to motorists.
Also, what in California is standard? :-D
Quote from: jake on June 05, 2014, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 01, 2014, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: Indyroads on October 14, 2013, 06:36:20 PM
Here is an example of the R-Y-G-Y-R horizontal signal I was talking about. As far as I know this is the only one that still exists in the Sacramento area http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV (http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV)
The agencies in the Sacramento area hate putting a decent number of signal heads over the road so much they will instead take the chances with liability for nonstandard designs? Interesting.
I don't think anything is wrong here. The second signal head is California-standard pole-mounted to the right. The double-red is not unheard of. Plenty of signals have them (albeit on top of each other). The double-amber is not something I've seen before, and you could make an argument that a liability arises, but for all we know, this intersection might have a problem with people jumping the red/speeding up on amber and they want a higher amount of "exposure" to motorists.
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
If there is an issue with jumping the red, they could use a standard R-R-Y-G display instead. To me, they should just slap a standard 3-section display up there and call it a day.
Quote from: roadfro on June 06, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
Quote from: jake on June 05, 2014, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 01, 2014, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: Indyroads on October 14, 2013, 06:36:20 PM
Here is an example of the R-Y-G-Y-R horizontal signal I was talking about. As far as I know this is the only one that still exists in the Sacramento area http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV (http://goo.gl/maps/0mOUV)
The agencies in the Sacramento area hate putting a decent number of signal heads over the road so much they will instead take the chances with liability for nonstandard designs? Interesting.
I don't think anything is wrong here. The second signal head is California-standard pole-mounted to the right. The double-red is not unheard of. Plenty of signals have them (albeit on top of each other). The double-amber is not something I've seen before, and you could make an argument that a liability arises, but for all we know, this intersection might have a problem with people jumping the red/speeding up on amber and they want a higher amount of "exposure" to motorists.
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
Except, unless the signal is malfunctioning (or possibly some kind of emergency preemption display), the red and green ball would never be lit at the same time. So in theory, colorblindness shouldn't be much of an issue.
Madison, WI (http://goo.gl/maps/JSnmO) has a rare mounting of a red on both ends of the horizontal, but that is tied into the railroad crossing signals (installed before the cantilevered signals were erected). Until the mid-2000s, the traffic signals doubled as railroad crossing signals, with the pedestal mounted signals going into a flashing red phase during a train event. You can still see the original crossbucks on the pole for the horizontal signals.
Quote from: DaBigE on June 06, 2014, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 06, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
Except, unless the signal is malfunctioning (or possibly some kind of emergency preemption display), the red and green ball would never be lit at the same time. So in theory, colorblindness shouldn't be much of an issue.
Say a red/green colorblind driver is new to the area and unfamiliar with this particular signal. The colorblind driver knows that a standard horizontally-mounted signal head always has circular red on the far left position and circular green in the far right position of the head. When this driver pulls up to this signal and it is red, simultaneously displaying a lighted circular indication in both the far left and far right sections of the signal head (where red and green, respectively, should be placed) what are they supposed to think? It will look like a conflict.
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 12:03:57 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 06, 2014, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 06, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
Except, unless the signal is malfunctioning (or possibly some kind of emergency preemption display), the red and green ball would never be lit at the same time. So in theory, colorblindness shouldn't be much of an issue.
Say a red/green colorblind driver is new to the area and unfamiliar with this particular signal. The colorblind driver knows that a standard horizontally-mounted signal head always has circular red on the far left position and circular green in the far right position of the head. When this driver pulls up to this signal and it is red, simultaneously displaying a lighted circular indication in both the far left and far right sections of the signal head (where red and green, respectively, should be placed) what are they supposed to think? It will look like a conflict.
My rough guess is that they'll be momentarily confused, then will look around to see what other cars are doing. This isn't a life-or-death situation here. Confusion doesn't immediately lead to huge traffic collision. I would assume color-blind individuals have trained themselves to look at more than just the traffic signal head.
Also, does red-green color blindness switch red and green? Not actually sure how that works. Wouldn't they just know that if either side was green, that actually meant they were red? I seriously have no idea what red-green color-blindness means.
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 12:03:57 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 06, 2014, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 06, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
Except, unless the signal is malfunctioning (or possibly some kind of emergency preemption display), the red and green ball would never be lit at the same time. So in theory, colorblindness shouldn't be much of an issue.
Say a red/green colorblind driver is new to the area and unfamiliar with this particular signal. The colorblind driver knows that a standard horizontally-mounted signal head always has circular red on the far left position and circular green in the far right position of the head. When this driver pulls up to this signal and it is red, simultaneously displaying a lighted circular indication in both the far left and far right sections of the signal head (where red and green, respectively, should be placed) what are they supposed to think? It will look like a conflict.
They should treat it with the fail-safe assumption in a potential conflict: that it is red and only red. No different than coming up to a darkened signal in a power outage. You treat it as a stop sign.
Color-deficiency aside, what would you do if you were approaching an intersection that you weren't exactly sure of the traffic control signal? Blast right through it? I doubt it.
Not quite the same case, but a couple years ago a lady received a ticket for running a red light. She tried to use the excuse that she couldn't see any of the signals, (a moist, blowing snowfall had occurred earlier and had coated some of the signal lenses such that they could not be easily seen). The LEO informed her she was supposed to treat it as a red light, stop, then look for clues as to what the light actually is (these types of snowstorms are usually very directional, so it is rare for more than one direction to have this problem at the same time). Her ticket held up in court.
Quote from: jake on June 07, 2014, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 12:03:57 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 06, 2014, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 06, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
Except, unless the signal is malfunctioning (or possibly some kind of emergency preemption display), the red and green ball would never be lit at the same time. So in theory, colorblindness shouldn't be much of an issue.
Say a red/green colorblind driver is new to the area and unfamiliar with this particular signal. The colorblind driver knows that a standard horizontally-mounted signal head always has circular red on the far left position and circular green in the far right position of the head. When this driver pulls up to this signal and it is red, simultaneously displaying a lighted circular indication in both the far left and far right sections of the signal head (where red and green, respectively, should be placed) what are they supposed to think? It will look like a conflict.
My rough guess is that they'll be momentarily confused, then will look around to see what other cars are doing. This isn't a life-or-death situation here. Confusion doesn't immediately lead to huge traffic collision. I would assume color-blind individuals have trained themselves to look at more than just the traffic signal head.
Yes, they would likely need to rely on other context clues to figure out what is going on. However, in a country where there are standard signal patterns and conventions that remove any ambiguity, it seems reasonable to remove any such uncertainties like this.
Quote
Also, does red-green color blindness switch red and green? Not actually sure how that works. Wouldn't they just know that if either side was green, that actually meant they were red? I seriously have no idea what red-green color-blindness means.
My understanding of color blindness is that people who have it may have difficulty discerning the different color hues due to deformities in the parts of the eyes (cones?) that process color patterns. So it is not a true switch of the two colors, but more seeing a color and not being able to tell if it is one or the other.
Red-green I believe is one of the most common types of color blindness. Blue-yellow is another.
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 01:15:48 AM
Red-green I believe is one of the most common types of color blindness. Blue-yellow is another.
Well, how convenient for us! :-D
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 01:15:48 AM
Quote from: jake on June 07, 2014, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 12:03:57 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 06, 2014, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: roadfro on June 06, 2014, 01:10:02 AM
The problem with that signal is that the standard for horizontal signals has circular red on the far left and green to the right. A driver with red/green color blindness (a common color blindness combination) could get confused by the layout of the signal heads--especially with the reds being on the outer ends where one can reasonably expect a red and a green to appear.
Except, unless the signal is malfunctioning (or possibly some kind of emergency preemption display), the red and green ball would never be lit at the same time. So in theory, colorblindness shouldn't be much of an issue.
Say a red/green colorblind driver is new to the area and unfamiliar with this particular signal. The colorblind driver knows that a standard horizontally-mounted signal head always has circular red on the far left position and circular green in the far right position of the head. When this driver pulls up to this signal and it is red, simultaneously displaying a lighted circular indication in both the far left and far right sections of the signal head (where red and green, respectively, should be placed) what are they supposed to think? It will look like a conflict.
My rough guess is that they'll be momentarily confused, then will look around to see what other cars are doing. This isn't a life-or-death situation here. Confusion doesn't immediately lead to huge traffic collision. I would assume color-blind individuals have trained themselves to look at more than just the traffic signal head.
Yes, they would likely need to rely on other context clues to figure out what is going on. However, in a country where there are standard signal patterns and conventions that remove any ambiguity, it seems reasonable to remove any such uncertainties like this.
I think we all can agree that this signaling practice is far from ideal and should be replaced.
Quote from: roadfro on June 07, 2014, 01:15:48 AM
My understanding of color blindness is that people who have it may have difficulty discerning the different color hues due to deformities in the parts of the eyes (cones?) that process color patterns. So it is not a true switch of the two colors, but more seeing a color and not being able to tell if it is one or the other.
Red-green I believe is one of the most common types of color blindness. Blue-yellow is another.
It's been nearly a decade since the class I had in college that discussed the implications of color-deficiency in the driving public, (our prof. wouldn't let us use the term color-blind, since it's technically not a "blindness"), so the details are a bit fuzzy. What else I do remember was that problems with the rods and cones in the eyes are the cause. And color-deficient drivers are the reason why all three indications have a bluish tinge to them (e.g., amber instead of a pure yellow).
Quote from: jake on June 07, 2014, 12:36:27 AM
Also, does red-green color blindness switch red and green? Not actually sure how that works. Wouldn't they just know that if either side was green, that actually meant they were red? I seriously have no idea what red-green color-blindness means.
There was a red-green colorblind kid at my high school. He told me that he perceives both red and green as a muddy brown.
There are some tools on the internet designed for testing websites that change a site's colorscheme to how it would be perceived by red-green and blue-yellow colorblind people.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 20, 2012, 11:01:50 PM
I do not know if any study has been done, but they are good for hurricanes and where overpasses generally block the standard type mount. They are even used under bridges where you do not have headroom to hang a traditional signal like under elevated subway lines or in SPUI setups.
Actually, with the Quebec shape coded symbol traffic signal, you only need two different lens housing. The square red obviously needs its own separate one. You would need something like pedestrian signal housing for that. But for the yellow diamond and green "ball", the standard for the green will work for the yellow. The round lenses could simply be coloured yellow or amber and then have the diamond silk screened or stencilled onto the ball lens. This would reduce costs a great deal.
I love these signals and have these lenses in my collection. I also have video of these, which I have filmed in Quebec. I am surprised that associations for the blind haven't pushed these signal lenses in the US for colour-blind drivers under the ADA. I really thought they would take hold in Canada. I know British Columbia was thinking of using them for a while. PEI does use them. They were used in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but never made it to wide spread use. They have since been replaced with standard signals in those provinces. In addition, Quebec stopped using them on provincially maintained highways, but is still legal, there. Still maintained in some municipalities. I have these provincial standards. By the way, these signals are placed in the horizontal position, which you show, and, vertical.
Some examples of a very common newer-style traffic light here in Moncton, NB, and a few variations:
http://goo.gl/maps/pwhCz Standard issue lights here, for protecting left-turns (green bimodal arrow flashes, then goes solid-yellow, then off). Similar cycles to PEI (I'll try to get video).
http://goo.gl/maps/igoqH Variant showing separated roadways. Sometimes there are five heads in the horizontal signal, sometimes four (this only happens on separated roadways.
http://goo.gl/maps/D7y36 Odd variant with an add-on horizontal signal on the left, due to poor sightlines.
http://goo.gl/maps/9P3wX Moncton used to always set up two horizontal signals until as late as the 80's. This is a rare nearly-untouched setup.
http://goo.gl/maps/H5axF Older signal, probably from the 60's or 70's, showing the wonky configurations that Moncton would go to to have the two horizontal signals, while still cheaping out on digging.
http://goo.gl/maps/Xu5kC This is hands-down the busiest intersection in town, despite the no-left-turn on the one side. Also double-left-turn-lanes on one of the legs, the first ones in the area, had such a high incidence of running the straight-only green (as it was the second setup in the city ever) that the city added a segment for a red left-turn arrow.
http://goo.gl/maps/AGbwV This is one of a couple of new super-sized signals. It might have cost more than expected (new signals planned and designed after these were set up like the first one, even on busier streets with double-left-turn lanes.)
http://goo.gl/maps/rCCkR A much older variation on the above. These were set up in 1990 when the separated roadway was built. The left two vertical signals are for left-turn (green and yellow arrows, but oddly a louvered red ball). The horizontal signal, as well as the vertical signal on the right of the divider, only show straight-through.
New Brunswick (specifically the metro Moncton area) definitely does the horizontal, but does the vertical too! :bigass:
I'm currently in Santa Fe, NM for a few days, and saw many of the horizontal traffic lights. Only thing I don't like about them is the left arrow is to the right of the red light. Spatially, it threw me off a few times, since I expected the left arrow to be left of the red light. (The first time I saw this, I thought the light had turned green for all lanes for a split-second). Otherwise, I like the consistency (so far) of the traffic light installations throughout the city.
I've been on vacation in Pueblo, CO and I am currently in Amarillo, TX. I went through Dumas, TX earlier today, and they have the horizontal traffic lights there. However, here in Amarillo, where I am staying for the night, the traffic lights are vertical.
Quote from: David Jr. on July 01, 2015, 08:56:59 PM
I've been on vacation in Pueblo, CO and I am currently in Amarillo, TX. I went through Dumas, TX earlier today, and they have the horizontal traffic lights there. However, here in Amarillo, where I am staying for the night, the traffic lights are vertical.
I think most of Texas uses horizontal traffic lights. So, I guess Amarillo is the oddity.
Quote from Jakeroot:
QuoteI think most of Texas uses horizontal traffic lights. So, I guess Amarillo is the oddity.
TxDOT Dist. 2 (Ft Worth) uses vertical signals exclusively.
City of Dallas signals on old-style poles are vertical.
City Of Farmers Branch uses vertical on modern mast arms.
An old photograph shows four-section heads with a red on either end on SH 24 (now US 380) in Denton.
Quote from: Brian556 on July 02, 2015, 01:32:53 AM
TxDOT Dist. 2 (Ft Worth) uses vertical signals exclusively.
City of Dallas signals on old-style poles are vertical.
City Of Farmers Branch uses vertical on modern mast arms.
An old photograph shows four-section heads with a red on either end on SH 24 (now US 380) in Denton.
That's why I said
most of Texas, not all (District 2 represents roughly 4% of the state, Farmers Branch accounts for .001% of the state's population, and old signals don't count).
The intersection of N. 3rd St. and E. Main St. (OK 7/US. 77) in Davis, Oklahoma has horizontal traffic lights.
Wornall Road, where it meets I-435, has horizontal lights for the movements that have just gone under the overpass, namely due to sight lines that vertical lights wouldn't be safe for.
Here's one in Joliet, IL. It was just built a year and a half ago, and you can see why the signal's height was minimized; in the distance, you can see a diagonal airport runway whose flight path ends up right above the intersection.
https://goo.gl/maps/2NWAkHGm3qj
Another signal with sideways heads is at Laraway Road and 80th Av in Frankfort, because of overhead powerlines crossing the intersection diagonally. Only the northbound approach has the sideways heads- and GSV hasn't been updated recently to show the new signal. But here's the location- you can kind of tell based on the shadows shown by aerial imagery https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4845905,-87.8093796,103m/data=!3m1!1e3
Also, here's a set of sideways signal heads for a railroad underpass in Bloomington
https://goo.gl/maps/Xc7gxZje2rj
But sideways signal heads in Illinois are nonexistent except for cases like these; when you need to see under an overhead obstruction, or you want to limit a signal's protrusion into the sky.
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
These horizontal signals are in front of the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn554%2Fdavidgjr1%2FTrump%2520Taj%2520Mahal%2520Horizontal%2520Traffic%2520Light%2520to%2520AA%2520Roads%2520forum.jpg&hash=4035fac0f5c1131ba19135b9ff05145420c6ad43)
There are two in Utah that I know of. Both are at pedestrian bridges where clearance may be an issue. Otherwise, Utah is all vertical.
https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2 (https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2)
https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep (https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep)
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
There are two in Utah that I know of. Both are at pedestrian bridges where clearance may be an issue. Otherwise, Utah is all vertical.
https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2 (https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2)
https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep (https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep)
Hm. Although they are vertical now, I am pretty sure the traffic lights at Eagle Gate in SLC were at one point horizontal.
Here's a bit of an odd one: these signals were turned horizontal because of the construction of a building immediately behind them. Probably two of very few, if not the only, horizontal signals in Iowa. This is (was? not sure if they're still there–I should probably go check) at 6th Ave and High St in downtown Des Moines. Picture is from January 2015.
(https://i.imgur.com/DmdkMPX.jpg)
Quote from: David Jr. on May 21, 2016, 03:35:16 PM
These horizontal signals are in front of the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn554%2Fdavidgjr1%2FTrump%2520Taj%2520Mahal%2520Horizontal%2520Traffic%2520Light%2520to%2520AA%2520Roads%2520forum.jpg&hash=4035fac0f5c1131ba19135b9ff05145420c6ad43)
I would say somewhere between 25 to 50% of AC's lights are horizontal, especially those along Pacific Ave. At some intersections they have mixed horizontal and vertical, such as: https://goo.gl/maps/b2GyGKpDuD82
This light in Newark, NJ has a misplaced left green arrow in this horizontal light, which should be between the yellow and green ball. Of the intersections I traveled thru this past weekend, it's the only light with such an issue. https://goo.gl/maps/YyTDDVHmL9R2
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 01, 2017, 12:14:28 PM
Here's a bit of an odd one: these signals were turned horizontal because of the construction of a building immediately behind them. Probably two of very few, if not the only, horizontal signals in Iowa. This is (was? not sure if they're still there–I should probably go check) at 6th Ave and High St in downtown Des Moines. Picture is from January 2015.
(https://i.imgur.com/DmdkMPX.jpg)
Dubuque has a few horizontal signals. Although they appear to be very old and dated. Likely won't be around too much longer.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
There are two in Utah that I know of. Both are at pedestrian bridges where clearance may be an issue. Otherwise, Utah is all vertical.
https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2 (https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2)
Unrelated to the horizontally mounted signals, but seeing these signals (https://goo.gl/maps/qTjdyio8fwq) reminded me of a question I had when I traveled the state last summer. Is there a reason why Utah chooses not to install backplates (those black borders attached to the sides of the signals) around their doghouse signals? At a given intersection that has them, every other signal will have backplates
except for the doghouse. I don't think I've ever been to or seen a place elsewhere that follows this practice so strictly.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 01, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
This light in Newark, NJ has a misplaced left green arrow in this horizontal light, which should be between the yellow and green ball. Of the intersections I traveled thru this past weekend, it's the only light with such an issue. https://goo.gl/maps/YyTDDVHmL9R2
I've always thought that was a strange practice anyway. Somehow, placing a green orb in the center of a vertical 5-section tower is fine, but when it's horizontal, it's suddenly imperative that the green orb is on the far right.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 01, 2017, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 01, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
This light in Newark, NJ has a misplaced left green arrow in this horizontal light, which should be between the yellow and green ball. Of the intersections I traveled thru this past weekend, it's the only light with such an issue. https://goo.gl/maps/YyTDDVHmL9R2
I've always thought that was a strange practice anyway. Somehow, placing a green orb in the center of a vertical 5-section tower is fine, but when it's horizontal, it's suddenly imperative that the green orb is on the far right.
Yep. I would think just taking the vertical light and turning it 90 degrees should keep the light order in place.
Regina, SK uses horizontal lights along the mast arm, with vertical lights on the pole.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F11DIZ6s.jpg&hash=bfa8bde486156e9cbfd9b575f24da64763390feb)
Quote from: Rothman on June 01, 2017, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
There are two in Utah that I know of. Both are at pedestrian bridges where clearance may be an issue. Otherwise, Utah is all vertical.
https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2 (https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2)
https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep (https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep)
Hm. Although they are vertical now, I am pretty sure the traffic lights at Eagle Gate in SLC were at one point horizontal.
When was this? They have been vertical since at least the early-mid 2000s, and in 1983 they were hung on wires, according to several photos online of the flooding in that year.
Quote from: Ian on June 01, 2017, 01:39:00 PM
Unrelated to the horizontally mounted signals, but seeing these signals (https://goo.gl/maps/qTjdyio8fwq) reminded me of a question I had when I traveled the state last summer. Is there a reason why Utah chooses not to install backplates (those black borders attached to the sides of the signals) around their doghouse signals? At a given intersection that has them, every other signal will have backplates except for the doghouse. I don't think I've ever been to or seen a place elsewhere that follows this practice so strictly.
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512 (https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512). And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.
However, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Ian on June 01, 2017, 01:39:00 PM
Unrelated to the horizontally mounted signals, but seeing these signals (https://goo.gl/maps/qTjdyio8fwq) reminded me of a question I had when I traveled the state last summer. Is there a reason why Utah chooses not to install backplates (those black borders attached to the sides of the signals) around their doghouse signals? At a given intersection that has them, every other signal will have backplates except for the doghouse. I don't think I've ever been to or seen a place elsewhere that follows this practice so strictly.
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512 (https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512). And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.
However, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.
I don't think it looks that bad. In fact, it actually looks better with the background than without, IMO. Though that's probably because I've grown up around these:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5986278,-86.9801484,3a,15y,188.94h,96.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sW7q9S82PoeOOr6MBceHuBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7898836,-86.9716231,3a,15y,188.04h,104.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ5LZyVgDKK776YlSYENW8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6982911,-86.6274576,3a,15y,155.35h,107.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snzCnybzL2DTVwU4fXvsW_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6719167,-86.5391984,3a,15y,103.94h,99.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfnR6jIF8GkjNL3gAeRa5nQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6914145,-86.5683002,3a,15y,195.65h,103.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szGRbaqtXXE0I0bb742tmzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6288554,-85.4618525,3a,15y,264.05h,97.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sofadXjNwGWM4z8p6TXq0PQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Though most of the backgrounds I've seen on doghouses in the area are more like this one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7052087,-86.5698991,3a,15y,1.28h,108.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8k6DQV9svzXgm6i2mUm18Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512 (https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512). And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.
I think the situation 90-degrees to the left (https://goo.gl/maps/AfqGXz2za2N2) of your image looks much worse. :-o
Quote from: DaBigE on June 01, 2017, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512 (https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512). And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.
I think the situation 90-degrees to the left (https://goo.gl/maps/AfqGXz2za2N2) of your image looks much worse. :-o
I don't think it looks that bad, but that's probably because I've seen it many times. There are several doghouses mounted that way in the area, most of them older signals.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512 (https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512). And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.
What's wrong with that one? I've seen doghouse backplates like those in a countless number of other places across the US.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PMHowever, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.
I'm pretty sure they're still installing right-turn doghouses, since those don't really need the FYA set-up. Here is an example (https://goo.gl/maps/8YSM7rrqMdq) along US 6 in Spanish Fork, with a new FYA
and a doghouse on the same mast-arm.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms
I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine
LGMS428
Quote from: Ian on June 02, 2017, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512 (https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512). And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.
What's wrong with that one? I've seen doghouse backplates like those in a countless number of other places across the US.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PMHowever, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.
I'm pretty sure they're still installing right-turn doghouses, since those don't really need the FYA set-up. Here is an example (https://goo.gl/maps/8YSM7rrqMdq) along US 6 in Spanish Fork, with a new FYA and a doghouse on the same mast-arm.
I meant left turn doghouses. But you're right, they are definitely still installing right turn doghouses.
There is a FYA right arrow (https://goo.gl/maps/RMFtYdpnLY62) at the Thanksgiving Point exit off I-15, though.
Sideways signals on wires in Lewiston Woodville, NC.
https://goo.gl/maps/FezjhKkTLMN2
(https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18920219_10211482944661703_2584681731108626826_n.jpg?oh=82e98fd5e298c001210d37409a567957&oe=59E5F0AD)
Little Rock, AR
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms
I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine
LGMS428
Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms
I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine
LGMS428
Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.
Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms
I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine
LGMS428
Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.
Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Yeah, was about the say the same. While FDOT seems to generally prefers to install mast arms (outside of weird geometry/long length intersections), it often seems like if FDOT isn't paying for it, such as something by the school district, they always cheap out and install on wires. Horizontal seems to just be by county, and in some, even within (such as Palm Beach County), its seemingly entirely random. Along with the color of the mast arms (unpainted, black, green, brown, etc, no rhyme or reason). I'd really like to see some more consistency
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 12, 2017, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms
I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine
LGMS428
Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.
Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Yeah, was about the say the same. While FDOT seems to generally prefers to install mast arms (outside of weird geometry/long length intersections), it often seems like if FDOT isn't paying for it, such as something by the school district, they always cheap out and install on wires. Horizontal seems to just be by county, and in some, even within (such as Palm Beach County), its seemingly entirely random. Along with the color of the mast arms (unpainted, black, green, brown, etc, no rhyme or reason). I'd really like to see some more consistency
When mastarms first became more common in NE Florida... Mast arms were black in Duval County, brown in Clay and rusty brown in St Johns, Volusia was green
Now all new installs seem to be unpainted.
I like the classic Florida concrete traffic light poles with spanwires
LGMS428
Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2017, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 12, 2017, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?
It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms
I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine
LGMS428
Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.
Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Yeah, was about the say the same. While FDOT seems to generally prefers to install mast arms (outside of weird geometry/long length intersections), it often seems like if FDOT isn't paying for it, such as something by the school district, they always cheap out and install on wires. Horizontal seems to just be by county, and in some, even within (such as Palm Beach County), its seemingly entirely random. Along with the color of the mast arms (unpainted, black, green, brown, etc, no rhyme or reason). I'd really like to see some more consistency
When mastarms first became more common in NE Florida... Mast arms were black in Duval County, brown in Clay and rusty brown in St Johns, Volusia was green
Now all new installs seem to be unpainted.
I like the classic Florida concrete traffic light poles with spanwires
LGMS428
Moving it a little more back towards the topic... I've noticed lately they seem to be installing the signals horizontal even on span wires when they cheap out and don't buy a mast arm here... as I'm in a horizontal signal area now. Horizontal signals on span wires strike me as really ugly.
I'm a bit mixed on span wire vs mast arm as they seem to drop the close side signals when they do the mast arm, and I like having that. I far prefer the look of horizontal signals on mast arms if it wasn't for the missing closing side signals that seem to accompany that.
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.
Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
I'd reckon it depends on how they define "10 miles from the coast". Are they putting wires at intersections by the Indian River, or towards I-95? If they measure from the beach, the latter might squeak outside the boundary.
I heard stories of that being near the coast mast arms a must, but Fred Farrel, the former head engineer for FDOT District 5 said there was no such mandate. Now he told me this years ago, now it might of changed since, but I do see span wires installed at the coast in some places.
In Florida we have no set pattern as some counties will adopt a type of mast arm and before all the new signals can be changed out they already are installing a new type of arm. In Orlando you will find Caltrans type of mast arm painted brown with a square sodium vapor street light mounted to the top of the vertical poles, but occasionally they do install span wires.
Yes the horizontal lights do look better and in Central Florida the City of Maitland uses them and further north both Lake City and Gainesville uses them. Some parts of Tampa uses them as well. I was told by a friend who worked in Orange County that the State for some reason was objecting to them using horizontal mounts despite Miami, Pensacola, Panama City, Gainesville, Naples, Lake City, and even Fort Lauderdale now using them.
Quote from: 7/8 on June 01, 2017, 03:05:57 PM
Regina, SK uses horizontal lights along the mast arm, with vertical lights on the pole.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F11DIZ6s.jpg&hash=bfa8bde486156e9cbfd9b575f24da64763390feb)
I like that, I think it's a good mix at maximizes visibility. My favorite style ever was near Montreal, which used horizontal traffic lights with different shapes for each color, and the signals were bookended by red lights. And there were still vertical signals mounted on the sides.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 13, 2017, 03:00:12 AM
I heard stories of that being near the coast mast arms a must, but Fred Farrel, the former head engineer for FDOT District 5 said there was no such mandate. Now he told me this years ago, now it might of changed since, but I do see span wires installed at the coast in some places.
In Florida we have no set pattern as some counties will adopt a type of mast arm and before all the new signals can be changed out they already are installing a new type of arm. In Orlando you will find Caltrans type of mast arm painted brown with a square sodium vapor street light mounted to the top of the vertical poles, but occasionally they do install span wires.
Yes the horizontal lights do look better and in Central Florida the City of Maitland uses them and further north both Lake City and Gainesville uses them. Some parts of Tampa uses them as well. I was told by a friend who worked in Orange County that the State for some reason was objecting to them using horizontal mounts despite Miami, Pensacola, Panama City, Gainesville, Naples, Lake City, and even Fort Lauderdale now using them.
Mast arms should be required statewide. The entire state is vulnerable to hurricanes. After Hurricane Charley in 2004, there were some wire span intersections that were a real mess around Orlando. But the mast arms were mostly just fine.
The state must be schizophrenic. They object to horizontal signals, but they are letting some coastal areas put up span wires.
Quote from: Aerobird on August 13, 2017, 01:40:40 AM
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.
Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
I'd reckon it depends on how they define "10 miles from the coast". Are they putting wires at intersections by the Indian River, or towards I-95? If they measure from the beach, the latter might squeak outside the boundary.
Both US1 by the river and A1A along the barrier island have a bunch of span wire lights still. The one I'm specifically thinking of though is at the corner of Palm Bay Rd and Babcock St (SR507) in Palm Bay. When they widened Palm Bay Road they replaced every signal with mast arms except for that one which they put in big concrete posts and span wires in an X configuration. It's well within the 10 mile limit.
Some new traffic lights were installed at the US 400/US 69/US 160/K-171 (Kansas 171) junction just south of Pittsburg, KS. All the traffic lights on that intersection are horizontal.
Quote from: David Jr. on December 26, 2017, 10:57:55 PM
Some new traffic lights were installed at the US 400/US 69/US 160/K-171 (Kansas 171) junction just south of Pittsburg, KS. All the traffic lights on that intersection are horizontal.
Last time I was there, it was a 4-way stop. Of course, it's been a few years.
Quote from: US71 on December 26, 2017, 11:17:11 PM
Quote from: David Jr. on December 26, 2017, 10:57:55 PM
Some new traffic lights were installed at the US 400/US 69/US 160/K-171 (Kansas 171) junction just south of Pittsburg, KS. All the traffic lights on that intersection are horizontal.
Last time I was there, it was a 4-way stop. Of course, it's been a few years.
Last time I was there, it was a construction zone. I'm happy to see a stoplight going in at that location.
Quote from: US71 on December 26, 2017, 11:17:11 PM
Quote from: David Jr. on December 26, 2017, 10:57:55 PM
Some new traffic lights were installed at the US 400/US 69/US 160/K-171 (Kansas 171) junction just south of Pittsburg, KS. All the traffic lights on that intersection are horizontal.
Last time I was there, it was a 4-way stop. Of course, it's been a few years.
The Google car agrees with you.
Quote from: roadguy2 on December 27, 2017, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: US71 on December 26, 2017, 11:17:11 PM
Quote from: David Jr. on December 26, 2017, 10:57:55 PM
Some new traffic lights were installed at the US 400/US 69/US 160/K-171 (Kansas 171) junction just south of Pittsburg, KS. All the traffic lights on that intersection are horizontal.
Last time I was there, it was a 4-way stop. Of course, it's been a few years.
The Google car agrees with you.
It was a 4-way stop until quite recently. This is along my usual route to Branson, where my in-laws are from. I think the stoplights might have been up but not operational last time I was through there.
A new horizontal signal has been installed in Utah, at the intersection of southbound Mountain View Corridor and 4100 South. To my knowledge, this is one of only three horizontal signals in Utah.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4598/39459468691_e3d357a281_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/237U6i6)
EDIT: fixed picture link.
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 02, 2018, 06:48:23 PM
A new horizontal signal has been installed in Utah, at the intersection of southbound Mountain View Corridor and 4100 South. To my knowledge, this is one of only three horizontal signals in Utah.
Here's a link (https://flic.kr/p/237U6i6) since I couldn't figure out how to post the image directly.
Click the share button (an arrow) on the bottom-right of the image to get the bbcode link.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4598/39459468691_e3d357a281_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/237U6i6)4100 S eastbound at Mountain View (https://flic.kr/p/237U6i6) by roadguy2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/155771219@N08/), on Flickr
Quote from: 7/8 on January 02, 2018, 08:03:10 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 02, 2018, 06:48:23 PM
A new horizontal signal has been installed in Utah, at the intersection of southbound Mountain View Corridor and 4100 South. To my knowledge, this is one of only three horizontal signals in Utah.
Here's a link (https://flic.kr/p/237U6i6) since I couldn't figure out how to post the image directly.
Click the share button (an arrow) on the bottom-right of the image to get the bbcode link.
Flickr's BBCode links are stupidly long. I don't see why there needs to be attribution included with every link, and every photo clickable. Those should be options (a checkbox, like with "embed").
For anyone that uses Flickr who doesn't want every photo to include attribution and to be clickable, hit the download button, click "view all sizes", and then right-click>copy image address. Paste that in the message box here, highlight the link, and then hit the image button above the message box. The forum fills in the rest.
I have seen some new horizontal traffic signals in El Mirage AZ. As far as I know no other jurisdiction in Arizona installs horizontal signals.
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 05, 2018, 09:45:38 PM
I have seen some new horizontal traffic signals in El Mirage AZ. As far as I know no other jurisdiction in Arizona installs horizontal signals.
Thunderbird Road @ Grand Avenue Frontage Road https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6093251,-112.3152019,3a,75y,210.55h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGLJR8k1psFPQh9YqVevjKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: mapman1071 on February 12, 2018, 01:17:21 AM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on February 05, 2018, 09:45:38 PM
I have seen some new horizontal traffic signals in El Mirage AZ. As far as I know no other jurisdiction in Arizona installs horizontal signals.
Thunderbird Road @ Grand Avenue Frontage Road https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6093251,-112.3152019,3a,75y,210.55h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGLJR8k1psFPQh9YqVevjKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Thanks for the visual. The signals at El Mirage/Olive, El Mirage/Peoria, El Mirage/Cactus, and El Mirage/Thunderbird all have horizontal overhead signals similar to this.
I completely forgot about this until I found it again on GSV yesterday: the US 91 interchange at I-86 in Pocatello has horizontal signals. Here's a link. (https://goo.gl/maps/4Yxre1XXdMN2) They're the only ones I'm aware of in Idaho.
This is at I-65/70 and Washington St. in Indianapolis, IN:
https://goo.gl/maps/XVh4eKcf5tM2 (https://goo.gl/maps/XVh4eKcf5tM2)
I found a random intersection along US 1 in Kennebunk, Maine last weekend with one side having horizontal signals. In this case, it looks like it was done so the signals weren't obscured by the power lines.
https://goo.gl/maps/QQP8NwtYE772
The only other location in Maine I know of with horizontal signals exists on both ends of the diamond interchange with I-95 (exit 130) and ME 104 in Waterville, here (https://goo.gl/maps/CdyADJaDFU82) and here (https://goo.gl/maps/EpnCo82zMt22). If you turn the second street view link around 180 degrees, you'll even find a horizontal signal ahead sign (https://goo.gl/maps/knePq8iBPBu)!
Quote from: Ian on October 15, 2018, 01:59:18 PM
find a horizontal signal ahead sign (https://goo.gl/maps/knePq8iBPBu)!
Now that's just awesome! I'm honestly surprised that doesn't happen more places.
Quote from: kphoger on October 15, 2018, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Ian on October 15, 2018, 01:59:18 PM
find a horizontal signal ahead sign (https://goo.gl/maps/knePq8iBPBu)!
Now that's just awesome! I'm honestly surprised that doesn't happen more places.
On a related note, in regards to specific signals on signs, I've seen a few 12-8-8 photo enforced warning signs, particularly in Virginia, and I believe a traffic light warning sign with a 12-8-8 on it. I can get pictures I've taken later. They're not too common either.
Edit:
(https://i.imgur.com/IdPPKdI.png)
Horizontal signal heads are a rarity in Illinois, so I'll post this one. This is IL-25 and Gilbert St. in South Elgin. The signal shown in GSV has since been replaced with a protected-only left turn:
https://goo.gl/maps/FkS8pJMNm1x
I seem to remember a few randomly scattered about around CT-372 in Central Connecticut. This is on CT-372 at Depot Road in Berlin.
(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HMirokD.png)
Florida loves em!
iPhone
A horizontal side-mount in Texas https://goo.gl/maps/anuqLL5MRTN2
Quote from: DrSmith on November 10, 2018, 09:37:09 PM
A horizontal side-mount in Texas https://goo.gl/maps/anuqLL5MRTN2
Was it even necessary to mount that light horizontally? It's mounted on a perfectly good pole where it could have been mounted vertically. I know Texas loves their horizontal traffic lights, but I have seen vertical side mounts there...
Quote from: Mark68 on November 13, 2018, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: DrSmith on November 10, 2018, 09:37:09 PM
A horizontal side-mount in Texas https://goo.gl/maps/anuqLL5MRTN2
Was it even necessary to mount that light horizontally? It's mounted on a perfectly good pole where it could have been mounted vertically. I know Texas loves their horizontal traffic lights, but I have seen vertical side mounts there...
It's Texas. "Was that even necessary?" is like a state motto.
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
Quote from: DaBigE on November 13, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
That's a new one for me! If used consistently with vertical signals for conflicting vehicular movements, it could help reduce confusion between bicycle signal heads and turn arrows (which I find to be a bit of an overblown concern, but whatever).
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 13, 2018, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 13, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
That's a new one for me! If used consistently with vertical signals for conflicting vehicular movements, it could help reduce confusion between bicycle signal heads and turn arrows (which I find to be a bit of an overblown concern, but whatever).
I believe Denver uses horizontal signals for this purpose. I would prefer all-yellow backplates (https://goo.gl/hmsjsk) or something like that instead, as there can be horizontal spacing/clearance issues with pole-mounted horizontal signals (where most bike signals are placed).
Quote from: DaBigE on November 13, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
This might be the most Madison thing I've ever seen. Trying hard to be new-age, but...still a blatant reminder that this is just Wisconsin.
https://www.google.com/maps/@24.1513124,-110.3263172,3a,76y,27.47h,94.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD860Fy44x8Nsge6gOKTCqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@24.1513124,-110.3263172,3a,76y,27.47h,94.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD860Fy44x8Nsge6gOKTCqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
La Paz, Baja California Sur is full of horizontal 12/8 inch combos. There's an example of one of them.
I have a few locations saved in this general area of horizontal signals, including one that has a really bizarre mixed assortment of signal backs all on one signal. I'll be able to update this post with those when I return home. There's also a few strange masts some of them are on.
Edit: https://www.google.com/maps/@24.1514223,-110.3262144,3a,15y,213.98h,97.27t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1skb5Ye9IOUYhyu0VDazJhag!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dkb5Ye9IOUYhyu0VDazJhag%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D186.6429%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7189573,-135.0562653,3a,15y,249.84h,104.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfg6krdTp8qYW_PVJmnMh0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7189573,-135.0562653,3a,15y,249.84h,104.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfg6krdTp8qYW_PVJmnMh0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Whitehorse, Yukon also has a few horizontal 12/8 inch combo signals.
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7196841,-135.0522415,3a,15y,354.98h,99.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2YKp0VZrQABLQhiJt_JazA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7196841,-135.0522415,3a,15y,354.98h,99.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2YKp0VZrQABLQhiJt_JazA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Including this one with a bizarre square block between the yellow and green. No idea what that's for.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 14, 2018, 01:19:52 AM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 13, 2018, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 13, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
That's a new one for me! If used consistently with vertical signals for conflicting vehicular movements, it could help reduce confusion between bicycle signal heads and turn arrows (which I find to be a bit of an overblown concern, but whatever).
I believe Denver uses horizontal signals for this purpose. I would prefer all-yellow backplates (https://goo.gl/hmsjsk) or something like that instead, as there can be horizontal spacing/clearance issues with pole-mounted horizontal signals (where most bike signals are placed).
Here you go. South Broadway & Virginia in Denver:
https://goo.gl/maps/vAXEoDrH4Js
Quote from: DaBigE on November 13, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
I love this one in that a simple bike signal gets its very own trombone truss arm set-up. Never seen something so intricate used just for a bike signal!
Quote from: index on November 14, 2018, 12:32:33 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7196841,-135.0522415,3a,15y,354.98h,99.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2YKp0VZrQABLQhiJt_JazA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Including this one with a bizarre square block between the yellow and green. No idea what that's for.
If I were to guess, I'd say that the square block is covering a formerly used signal section. Looks like it could've been a left turn arrow? May be that street used to have a dedicated left turn lane?
Quote from: Mark68 on November 14, 2018, 02:01:07 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 14, 2018, 01:19:52 AM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 13, 2018, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 13, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
How about a horizontal bike signal (https://goo.gl/maps/4ua9tmBfD592)? Rotate the image 180-degrees to see a second installation.
That's a new one for me! If used consistently with vertical signals for conflicting vehicular movements, it could help reduce confusion between bicycle signal heads and turn arrows (which I find to be a bit of an overblown concern, but whatever).
I believe Denver uses horizontal signals for this purpose. I would prefer all-yellow backplates (https://goo.gl/hmsjsk) or something like that instead, as there can be horizontal spacing/clearance issues with pole-mounted horizontal signals (where most bike signals are placed).
Here you go. South Broadway & Virginia in Denver:
https://goo.gl/maps/vAXEoDrH4Js
Thanks mate, cheers.
That link highlights a major issue I have with their horizontal bike signals. Vertical bike signals could have allowed a secondary left turn signal head on the mast in your link, but the horizontal layout effectively ruins any opportunity for side-by-side vertical placement (unlike this setup (https://goo.gl/9DTyNa) which is perfect IMO). And really, if people can distinguish between arrows and orbs, they should be able to make further distinctions for bike symbols too, especially if they're smaller than regular signals. Seattle pulls this off by using a couple different sizes of bike signals (https://goo.gl/d5SKta) that are all smaller (in some cases, much smaller) than regular vehicle signals. Though supplemental signage is still used.
Lincoln, Nebraska is changing all of their horizontal signals to vertical.
I lived in Lincoln as a kid and they were ubiquitous. So much so that I had no idea they were uncommon, and never really did until many years later.
I actually kind hate to see it change now, since I now associate the quirk with the city of my birth.
https://lehsoracle.com/23279/news/what-the-flip-lincoln-changing-signals-and-signs-throughout-intersections/ (https://lehsoracle.com/23279/news/what-the-flip-lincoln-changing-signals-and-signs-throughout-intersections/)
Quote from: mrose on November 17, 2018, 12:06:53 AM
Lincoln, Nebraska is changing all of their horizontal signals to vertical.
I lived in Lincoln as a kid and they were ubiquitous. So much so that I had no idea they were uncommon, and never really did until many years later.
I actually kind hate to see it change now, since I now associate the quirk with the city of my birth.
https://lehsoracle.com/23279/news/what-the-flip-lincoln-changing-signals-and-signs-throughout-intersections/ (https://lehsoracle.com/23279/news/what-the-flip-lincoln-changing-signals-and-signs-throughout-intersections/)
So the article states they're turning them to improve safety, does anything show that to be true?
Quote from: UCFKnights on November 18, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
So the article states they're turning them to improve safety, does anything show that to be true?
Probably perception, but I think it's sound. Color-blind drivers who are unfamiliar with horizontal signals struggle with remembering which way the lights go. Even horizontal areas have plenty of vertical signals (pole-mounted, etc), so color-blind drivers in those areas probably understand vertical signals better than the other way around.
As an example, it took me about 60 seconds just now to remember which direction horizontal signals go, since I don't see them hardly at all.
Horizontal traffic signals are extremely rare in Michigan, and those are under freeway bridges. Here is a set of horizontal signals in Bridgman:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9428152,-86.563441,3a,82y,342.93h,95.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-HprvgdLR9IKZfHACjH2Nw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: jakeroot on November 18, 2018, 08:22:12 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on November 18, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
So the article states they're turning them to improve safety, does anything show that to be true?
Probably perception, but I think it's sound. Color-blind drivers who are unfamiliar with horizontal signals struggle with remembering which way the lights go. Even horizontal areas have plenty of vertical signals (pole-mounted, etc), so color-blind drivers in those areas probably understand vertical signals better than the other way around.
As an example, it took me about 60 seconds just now to remember which direction horizontal signals go, since I don't see them hardly at all.
What makes it easy for me to remember is to imagine a vertical stoplight mounted on a pole at the right side of the road (basically, a normal stoplight)–then bend the pole over the road. What was once on top (red) is now on the left.
But that only works with the solid balls. With a five-section signal, the order is not the same. I can never remember what arrows go where on horizontal lights.
Quote from: kphoger on November 19, 2018, 01:32:26 PM
What makes it easy for me to remember is to imagine a vertical stoplight mounted on a pole at the right side of the road (basically, a normal stoplight)–then bend the pole over the road. What was once on top (red) is now on the left.
If not for Japan (a RHD country whose traffic control methods I've studied extensively), I probably would have it down by now. Japan's green orb is on the far left; your method of remembering (slid up and towards traffic) remains true in Japan, but I still get basic orientation mixed up on the fly.
Quote from: kphoger on November 19, 2018, 01:32:26 PM
But that only works with the solid balls. With a five-section signal, the order is not the same. I can never remember what arrows go where on horizontal lights.
I've always thought that was silly too. For some reason, it's essential that the green orb is all the way to the right edge for horizontal signals, but there's no issue with it being in the center of vertical signals... :eyebrow:
Quote from: jakeroot on November 19, 2018, 07:15:21 PM
I've always thought that was silly too. For some reason, it's essential that the green orb is all the way to the right edge for horizontal signals, but there's no issue with it being in the center of vertical signals... :eyebrow:
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
While it's under construction, the new interchange at Bangerter Highway (SR-154) and 5400 South near Salt Lake has horizontal signals:
https://goo.gl/maps/pp3BYrY5j9M2
Unfortunately, I think these are only temporary signals; it seems likely those black holes in the bridge above the current signals are where the permanent signals will be mounted. But they're interesting, considering UDOT has built over 20 freeway-over SPUIs and I don't recall them ever using temporary horizontal signals during construction.
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
Thank you! I'll now be able to remember that.
Idk if I have shared these yet, but they show the position of the indications along the 5-section head for left turns. The 5-section head for right turns I think is just red ball, yellow ball, green, yellow arrow, green arrow, as one might expect.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/29228809348_187e678891_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LwRhGL)
ILE2 (https://flic.kr/p/LwRhGL) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1785/42382854744_bd48f4a85d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27zed7U)
ILE3 (https://flic.kr/p/27zed7U) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/915/43051165052_3708e35b04_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28Ahtuq)
ILE4 (https://flic.kr/p/28Ahtuq) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
Thank you! I'll now be able to remember that.
I've never seen a horizontal 5-section signal for right turns, so I wouldn't have known this was a thing. Are there any examples of that out there?
Quote from: US 89 on November 20, 2018, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
Thank you! I'll now be able to remember that.
I've never seen a horizontal 5-section signal for right turns, so I wouldn't have known this was a thing. Are there any examples of that out there?
It took a little bit of poking around Google, but here you go:
https://goo.gl/maps/mnZx3xHDgtu (https://goo.gl/maps/mnZx3xHDgtu)
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2686266,-77.5808829,3a,75y,332.61h,96.54t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfooCgQtch4-h8qYIMYjXFg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DfooCgQtch4-h8qYIMYjXFg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D310.76727%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100 (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2686266,-77.5808829,3a,75y,332.61h,96.54t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfooCgQtch4-h8qYIMYjXFg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DfooCgQtch4-h8qYIMYjXFg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D310.76727%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100)
Here's an intersection in Kinston, NC with horizontal signals on spanwires, these always look neat to me. There's a few other intersections around Kinston like this, including one with horizontal signals hung from a mast, rather than mounted to it. I'll be able to find them later today, I have them saved on Google Maps.
Here's the stuff I was speaking of:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2443884,-77.5852817,3a,41.9y,104.76h,90.75t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sf8_WG82zmY2fShbpdr-JNA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Df8_WG82zmY2fShbpdr-JNA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D123.84382%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 20, 2018, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
Thank you! I'll now be able to remember that.
I've never seen a horizontal 5-section signal for right turns, so I wouldn't have known this was a thing. Are there any examples of that out there?
It took a little bit of poking around Google, but here you go:
https://goo.gl/maps/mnZx3xHDgtu (https://goo.gl/maps/mnZx3xHDgtu)
A few more:
https://goo.gl/maps/or2sE6YsoNA2 (https://goo.gl/maps/or2sE6YsoNA2)
https://goo.gl/maps/zWgLwStB5W82 (https://goo.gl/maps/zWgLwStB5W82)
https://goo.gl/maps/UR9VBcwpx6s (https://goo.gl/maps/UR9VBcwpx6s)
https://goo.gl/maps/swLJ9fjS8E52 (https://goo.gl/maps/swLJ9fjS8E52)
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
That makes sense. They're trying to do it doghouse style, with the arrows on the correct side of the green. Problem is, I don't think it's as intuitive when all the signals are in-line with each other. With a doghouse, the bottom-most ball is always the green indication, regardless if it's bottom-left or bottom-right. With a horizontal display, it doesn't seem as obvious.
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 20, 2018, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on November 20, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Easiest way to remember it is the arrows are on the same side of the green ball as the direction they point (left arrows are clustered left of the green ball; right arrows to the right of the green ball). I've always been told this was to get the arrows closer to the lane they serve.
Thank you! I'll now be able to remember that.
I've never seen a horizontal 5-section signal for right turns, so I wouldn't have known this was a thing. Are there any examples of that out there?
It took a little bit of poking around Google, but here you go:
https://goo.gl/maps/mnZx3xHDgtu (https://goo.gl/maps/mnZx3xHDgtu)
A few more:
https://goo.gl/maps/or2sE6YsoNA2 (https://goo.gl/maps/or2sE6YsoNA2)
https://goo.gl/maps/zWgLwStB5W82 (https://goo.gl/maps/zWgLwStB5W82)
https://goo.gl/maps/UR9VBcwpx6s (https://goo.gl/maps/UR9VBcwpx6s)
https://goo.gl/maps/swLJ9fjS8E52 (https://goo.gl/maps/swLJ9fjS8E52)
There is, or at least was, one in Port St. Joe, FL.
Quote from: index on November 14, 2018, 12:32:33 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@24.1513124,-110.3263172,3a,76y,27.47h,94.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD860Fy44x8Nsge6gOKTCqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@24.1513124,-110.3263172,3a,76y,27.47h,94.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD860Fy44x8Nsge6gOKTCqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
La Paz, Baja California Sur is full of horizontal 12/8 inch combos. There's an example of one of them.
I have a few locations saved in this general area of horizontal signals, including one that has a really bizarre mixed assortment of signal backs all on one signal. I'll be able to update this post with those when I return home. There's also a few strange masts some of them are on.
Edit: https://www.google.com/maps/@24.1514223,-110.3262144,3a,15y,213.98h,97.27t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1skb5Ye9IOUYhyu0VDazJhag!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dkb5Ye9IOUYhyu0VDazJhag%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D186.6429%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7189573,-135.0562653,3a,15y,249.84h,104.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfg6krdTp8qYW_PVJmnMh0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7189573,-135.0562653,3a,15y,249.84h,104.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfg6krdTp8qYW_PVJmnMh0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Whitehorse, Yukon also has a few horizontal 12/8 inch combo signals.
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7196841,-135.0522415,3a,15y,354.98h,99.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2YKp0VZrQABLQhiJt_JazA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7196841,-135.0522415,3a,15y,354.98h,99.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2YKp0VZrQABLQhiJt_JazA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Including this one with a bizarre square block between the yellow and green. No idea what that's for.
Yakima, WA also has a bunch 12-8-8 horizontal signals:
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6019782,-120.5075384,3a,51.5y,239.53h,92.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWGuXAJyT75qK-rRYCYN8pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: bcroadguy on November 21, 2018, 03:39:31 AM
Yakima, WA also has a bunch 12-8-8 horizontal signals:
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6019782,-120.5075384,3a,51.5y,239.53h,92.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWGuXAJyT75qK-rRYCYN8pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Slightly OT, but the Griswold/RACO EM gate mechanisms at the railroad crossing there and the next one north are cool:
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6017886,-120.507783,3a,59.1y,273.42h,91.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syA1NdMcw1h5y0EYFwyAkhQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6068561,-120.510335,3a,58.3y,260.14h,83.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEzvlZegzV9fuqafAqi6ayQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Are they still there, by any chance?
I can't remember if this one is mentioned in this thread, but the US-13/40 and DE-273 intersection near New Castle is the only example I can think of off the top of my head in Delaware. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6653639,-75.6044239,3a,75y,88.51h,89.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snmsh6X7G4Ud7Oj2Ez_gz8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: freebrickproductions on November 21, 2018, 03:42:08 AM
Slightly OT, but the Griswold/RACO EM gate mechanisms at the railroad crossing there and the next one north are cool:
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6017886,-120.507783,3a,59.1y,273.42h,91.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syA1NdMcw1h5y0EYFwyAkhQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6068561,-120.510335,3a,58.3y,260.14h,83.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEzvlZegzV9fuqafAqi6ayQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Are they still there, by any chance?
Yes, they are still there, at least when I was there last August. The only crossings that have been modified were at Lincoln and MLK (replaced by underpasses in the late 2000s). The fact that money was made available to even modify those crossings is impressive, as Yakima is not a well-off city. I would expect those Griswold/RACO EM gates to remain in place for quite a while.
Quote from: ipeters61 on November 21, 2018, 08:58:02 PM
I can't remember if this one is mentioned in this thread, but the US-13/40 and DE-273 intersection near New Castle is the only example I can think of off the top of my head in Delaware. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6653639,-75.6044239,3a,75y,88.51h,89.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snmsh6X7G4Ud7Oj2Ez_gz8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I wish they would update those with new ones. The intersection would move faster.
iPhone
Here are some old horizontal signals in Arcanum, Ohio (a picture was shown of one in the first page): https://youtu.be/HXx2-YZsbDU
I-55 at E. Military Road in Marion, Arkansas gives us this:
https://goo.gl/maps/Ev4T9w36qWH2 (https://goo.gl/maps/Ev4T9w36qWH2)
It's obviously horizontal because of the metro line behind the camera, but I think it's still an interesting signal nonetheless.
(https://i.imgur.com/j32MKfq.png)
Google Streetview (NSFW) (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.945379,-118.378496,3a,75y,87.37h,90.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqOxzu4aMmITusDrT9eerhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
^ Chicago has many of those as well. One I can think of right away is Foster at the Kennedy (I-90). Interesting how this one has two secure bars while the one in Cali has only one bar
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9757312,-87.771233,3a,75y,266.75h,89.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYWZrQCsTpw-FbDmHipASSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9757312,-87.771233,3a,75y,266.75h,89.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYWZrQCsTpw-FbDmHipASSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 25, 2019, 05:00:08 AM
Google Streetview (NSFW) (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.945379,-118.378496,3a,75y,87.37h,90.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqOxzu4aMmITusDrT9eerhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
It's a woman in a dress. Seems SFW to me.
The traffic signal on the eastbound I-96 exit ramp to Evergreen Road in Detroit has horizontal fixtures on the one of the three span wires. Vertical fixtures on that span would have been too low to the sidewalk, but raising the height of the span wire would have put it too close to the overhead electric lines.
https://goo.gl/maps/qJrdTLu2rUL2
They're a rarity in RI, but these new ones were installed last summer on 295 by Exit 10:
(https://i.imgur.com/yUuMywL.jpg)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 25, 2019, 05:00:08 AM
It's obviously horizontal because of the metro line behind the camera, but I think it's still an interesting signal nonetheless.
(https://i.imgur.com/j32MKfq.png)
Google Streetview (NSFW) (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.945379,-118.378496,3a,75y,87.37h,90.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqOxzu4aMmITusDrT9eerhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
NYSDOT mounts their horizontal signals on mast arms like that as well.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2068583,-77.6766403,3a,75y,266.42h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sThRHLAr3yWR5BMYyax6bQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 25, 2019, 05:00:08 AM
It's obviously horizontal because of the metro line behind the camera, but I think it's still an interesting signal nonetheless.
(https://i.imgur.com/j32MKfq.png)
Google Streetview (NSFW) (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.945379,-118.378496,3a,75y,87.37h,90.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqOxzu4aMmITusDrT9eerhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Quote from: jakeroot on January 25, 2019, 03:37:29 PM
It's a woman in a dress. Seems SFW to me.
Nor do I see the obvious part - the sightview still sees the mast arm well before the overpass. They could've easily hung vertical lights in the same manner as the horizonal lights. https://goo.gl/maps/DkuhG9SbPPA2
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
North Main Street in Greenville, SC has horizontal lights between College Street/Beattie Place and McBee Avenue. The only exception is this left turn signal (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.8524448,-82.3982236,3a,75y,191.43h,89.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2Y6zfT9FbyGJ5OhtoJdLhA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) at North Street.
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:07:39 AM
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
Nope, neither, except for maybe a few rare installs required by the situation/placement. I can't think of any, though.
Quote from: zzyzx on January 26, 2019, 01:49:30 AM
They're a rarity in RI, but these new ones were installed last summer on 295 by Exit 10:
(https://i.imgur.com/yUuMywL.jpg)
Look at that flashing yellow arrow sign! I'd love to see a closer up of that!
iPhone
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2019, 11:04:48 AM
Nor do I see the obvious part - the sightview still sees the mast arm well before the overpass. They could've easily hung vertical lights in the same manner as the horizonal lights. https://goo.gl/maps/DkuhG9SbPPA2
You're probably right, although there is a pretty small window of visibility between "too high to be seen before the the stop line" and "too low for vehicles to pass beneath", with vertical lights extending into these no-go zones.
They could have just used all post-mounted signals too, widening the median to accommodate both a left turn and through signal.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 26, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:07:39 AM
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
Nope, neither, except for maybe a few rare installs required by the situation/placement. I can't think of any, though.
Oh I know what it was with Minneapolis/St. Paul it was the way some of the traffic lights were mounted on the sides and I didn't like it. Like at this intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9724713,-93.2648891,3a,19.5y,153.43h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s24uqHhhqHtJj_lngqM2lgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 26, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:07:39 AM
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
Nope, neither, except for maybe a few rare installs required by the situation/placement. I can't think of any, though.
Oh I know what it was with Minneapolis/St. Paul it was the way some of the traffic lights were mounted on the sides and I didn't like it. Like at this intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9724713,-93.2648891,3a,19.5y,153.43h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s24uqHhhqHtJj_lngqM2lgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Wait what's the issue here?
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 01:22:43 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 26, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:07:39 AM
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
Nope, neither, except for maybe a few rare installs required by the situation/placement. I can't think of any, though.
Oh I know what it was with Minneapolis/St. Paul it was the way some of the traffic lights were mounted on the sides and I didn't like it. Like at this intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9724713,-93.2648891,3a,19.5y,153.43h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s24uqHhhqHtJj_lngqM2lgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Wait what's the issue here?
The location of the traffic lights, they are mounted on the side of the street instead of overhead.
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 27, 2019, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 01:22:43 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 26, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:07:39 AM
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
Nope, neither, except for maybe a few rare installs required by the situation/placement. I can't think of any, though.
Oh I know what it was with Minneapolis/St. Paul it was the way some of the traffic lights were mounted on the sides and I didn't like it. Like at this intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9724713,-93.2648891,3a,19.5y,153.43h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s24uqHhhqHtJj_lngqM2lgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Wait what's the issue here?
The location of the traffic lights, they are mounted on the side of the street instead of overhead.
I don't understand the issue. That's a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 27, 2019, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 01:22:43 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 26, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 26, 2019, 11:07:39 AM
I've seen them before. I think either Minneapolis or St. Paul have them, or both cities have them.
Nope, neither, except for maybe a few rare installs required by the situation/placement. I can't think of any, though.
Oh I know what it was with Minneapolis/St. Paul it was the way some of the traffic lights were mounted on the sides and I didn't like it. Like at this intersection https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9724713,-93.2648891,3a,19.5y,153.43h,92.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s24uqHhhqHtJj_lngqM2lgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Wait what's the issue here?
The location of the traffic lights, they are mounted on the side of the street instead of overhead.
I don't understand the issue. That's a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
It is odd that there aren't overhead signals on a relatively wide street. Washington DC is guilty of this as well, with relatively few signals on mast arms, (and when mast arms are used they are very short).
The old L.A. signal placement IMO was ideal. Mounted signals on both left and right corners. And for wider streets overhead signals as well. Proper signal placement without overkill.
Oh and on wide one-way streets like Downtown LA, 2 overhead signals. The left is a mirror image of the right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0481486,-118.2472185,3a,75y,35h,85.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9_YxIMeOT7NEd86UlLC0yA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D9_YxIMeOT7NEd86UlLC0yA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D338.0765%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
I don't understand the issue. That's a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
Indeed. Even Michigan Avenue in Chicago
uses side-mounted stoplights (https://goo.gl/maps/zLkVLt89PdK2).
(including the dread "LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" signs on five-lamp towers)
Quote from: mrsman on January 29, 2019, 06:13:04 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
I don't understand the issue. [Horizontal signals are] a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
It is odd that there aren't overhead signals on a relatively wide street. Washington DC is guilty of this as well, with relatively few signals on mast arms, (and when mast arms are used they are very short).
The old L.A. signal placement IMO was ideal. Mounted signals on both left and right corners. And for wider streets overhead signals as well. Proper signal placement without overkill.
Oh and on wide one-way streets like Downtown LA, 2 overhead signals. The left is a mirror image of the right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0481486,-118.2472185,3a,75y,35h,85.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9_YxIMeOT7NEd86UlLC0yA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D9_YxIMeOT7NEd86UlLC0yA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D338.0765%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
I would say that LA proper (not the suburbs) has some of the best signalization I've seen anywhere, for these reasons. CA, as a whole, does not mistreat the pole-mounted signal like so many agencies, treating them more as the norm, with overhead signals being the supplemental display (instead of vice-versa). For one-way streets, I think the best setup is for two pole-mounted signals, with a single overhead signal. This minimizes overhead visual clutter (among other things like power or trolley lines) that come alongside signal-per-lane placement, but still improves visibility for the approach over having just pole signals.
Seattle has historically been like DC. Many arterial roads downtown used only pole-mounted signals. Many have been converted to mast-arm installs (with a few keeping at least one pole-mounted signal (http://bit.ly/2WvQhEi), an ideal mid-point); 2nd was formerly setup for a lane of parking, a bike lane, three through lanes, and a bus-only lane, with only two 8-inch pole-mounted signals (http://bit.ly/2sURg3i) to control it all. As far as I know, it worked fine. But it would have been a good place to install at least one overhead signal (maybe two, although certainly only one with the current setup, which was reduced to two through lanes).
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 08:18:49 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
I don't understand the issue. That's a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
Indeed. Even Michigan Avenue in Chicago uses side-mounted stoplights (https://goo.gl/maps/zLkVLt89PdK2).
(including the dread "LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" signs on five-lamp towers)
CDOT really needs to fuck off with those "green arrow only" signs. I'm tempted to fly to Chicago just to turn left on green, totally out of spite.
I don't really understand why Chicago doesn't install two separate signal heads on some of those poles. DC does it all the time.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2019, 11:30:29 PM
Quote from: mrsman on January 29, 2019, 06:13:04 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
I don't understand the issue. [Horizontal signals are] a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
It is odd that there aren't overhead signals on a relatively wide street. Washington DC is guilty of this as well, with relatively few signals on mast arms, (and when mast arms are used they are very short).
The old L.A. signal placement IMO was ideal. Mounted signals on both left and right corners. And for wider streets overhead signals as well. Proper signal placement without overkill.
Oh and on wide one-way streets like Downtown LA, 2 overhead signals. The left is a mirror image of the right.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0481486,-118.2472185,3a,75y,35h,85.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9_YxIMeOT7NEd86UlLC0yA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D9_YxIMeOT7NEd86UlLC0yA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D338.0765%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
I would say that LA proper (not the suburbs) has some of the best signalization I've seen anywhere, for these reasons. CA, as a whole, does not mistreat the pole-mounted signal like so many agencies, treating them more as the norm, with overhead signals being the supplemental display (instead of vice-versa). For one-way streets, I think the best setup is for two pole-mounted signals, with a single overhead signal. This minimizes overhead visual clutter (among other things like power or trolley lines) that come alongside signal-per-lane placement, but still improves visibility for the approach over having just pole signals.
Seattle has historically been like DC. Many arterial roads downtown used only pole-mounted signals. Many have been converted to mast-arm installs (with a few keeping at least one pole-mounted signal (http://bit.ly/2WvQhEi), an ideal mid-point); 2nd was formerly setup for a lane of parking, a bike lane, three through lanes, and a bus-only lane, with only two 8-inch pole-mounted signals (http://bit.ly/2sURg3i) to control it all. As far as I know, it worked fine. But it would have been a good place to install at least one overhead signal (maybe two, although certainly only one with the current setup, which was reduced to two through lanes).
Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2019, 08:18:49 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 27, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
I don't understand the issue. That's a very normal thing, especially in downtown areas of the US (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, Chicago, etc). It's not like they're any harder to see than overhead-only signals. The best option is for overhead + side-mounted signals.
Indeed. Even Michigan Avenue in Chicago uses side-mounted stoplights (https://goo.gl/maps/zLkVLt89PdK2).
(including the dread "LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" signs on five-lamp towers)
CDOT really needs to fuck off with those "green arrow only" signs. I'm tempted to fly to Chicago just to turn left on green, totally out of spite.
I don't really understand why Chicago doesn't install two separate signal heads on some of those poles. DC does it all the time.
We have them in MA too, but at least we have a red ball with a green straight up arrow, so I guess it's not that bad
iPhone
Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2019, 11:30:29 PM
CDOT really needs to fuck off with those "green arrow only" signs. I'm tempted to fly to Chicago just to turn left on green, totally out of spite.
I don't really understand why Chicago doesn't install two separate signal heads on some of those poles. DC does it all the time.
There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck :bigass:
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 31, 2019, 03:16:35 PM
There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck :bigass:
What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 31, 2019, 03:16:35 PM
There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck :bigass:
What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?
He was responding to jakeroot's comment about being tempted to go to Chicago and turn left on a green ball out of spite. So Paul is saying that due to peds it'd be nearly impossible to make a left on a green ball.
Quote from: signalman on January 31, 2019, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 31, 2019, 03:16:35 PM
There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck
What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?
He was responding to jakeroot's comment about being tempted to go to Chicago and turn left on a green ball out of spite. So Paul is saying that due to peds it'd be nearly impossible to make a left on a green ball.
He's not wrong that it's swamped with peds, but he's clearly underestimated by ability to wait three inches from the crosswalk for peds to clear. :biggrin:
You can inch out into the crosswalk all you want: in Chicago, they won't get out of your way. If you try turning through the stream of pedestrians in downtown Chicago, they'll just bend their course a bit so they're still in front of your bumper. You do NOT intimidate them.
I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.
The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 03, 2019, 10:53:49 AM
I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.
The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Cicero @ the Stevenson is the same way.
Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2019, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 03, 2019, 10:53:49 AM
I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.
The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Cicero @ the Stevenson is the same way.
Yup. Same reason.
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 31, 2019, 03:16:35 PM
There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck :bigass:
What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?
Quote from: kphoger on February 01, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
You can inch out into the crosswalk all you want: in Chicago, they won't get out of your way. If you try turning through the stream of pedestrians in downtown Chicago, they'll just bend their course a bit so they're still in front of your bumper. You do NOT intimidate them.
Why did you ask and also answer your own question?? :spin: :spin: :spin: :spin:
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 05, 2019, 12:46:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 31, 2019, 03:16:35 PM
There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck :bigass:
What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?
Quote from: kphoger on February 01, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
You can inch out into the crosswalk all you want: in Chicago, they won't get out of your way. If you try turning through the stream of pedestrians in downtown Chicago, they'll just bend their course a bit so they're still in front of your bumper. You do NOT intimidate them.
Why did you ask and also answer your own question?? :spin: :spin: :spin: :spin:
I still fail to see how the one relates to the other.
Paul, I think you're confusing kphoger's comment about pedestrians "not being intimidated" by waiting cars, as him indicating that protected left turns would be better than a left-turn-yield setup (thus indicating that ped traffic has something to do with replacing stoplights, which is opposed to his first comment). He's saying that I could inch out and turn on green, regardless of Chicago's "on green arrow only" signs, but that I'll only get to go at the very end of the cycle, not that, I wouldn't be able to go at all (due to the huge numbers of pedestrians).
Oddly enough, most of those left turns along that main drag in Chicago appear to be lagging lefts, meaning that, ultimately, I'd probably end up completing the turn on a green arrow anyway!
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 03, 2019, 10:53:49 AM
I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.
The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Many along the Kennedy crossings and interchanges. Think the furthest north in Chicago city limits for the Kennedy is Foster Ave, though Rosemont has them on River Road by the 190/90/294 interchange
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9864507,-87.8608133,3a,75y,192.17h,94.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgCwTQbsylxuz9LcfVAT2BA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9864507,-87.8608133,3a,75y,192.17h,94.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgCwTQbsylxuz9LcfVAT2BA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4911998,-72.8094954,3a,25.3y,205.19h,94.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPmfeVAaS9wlKH24srZwHyQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
We now go to Union Ave. and W. Skelly Drive in Tulsa, Oklahoma:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0884505,-96.0117086,3a,75y,91.72h,82.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siphElXUjRm1IRl1Tn9PgAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0884505,-96.0117086,3a,75y,91.72h,82.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siphElXUjRm1IRl1Tn9PgAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Got this one on Winchester Rd in Memphis. Still kind of hard to see under the bridge, but it is better than the old setup where there was no extra light at all and simply relied on the "Prepare to Stop" flashers on the other side.
https://goo.gl/maps/XTu7HegXdEhAs5C89
Quote from: byoungblood on July 03, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
Got this one on Winchester Rd in Memphis. Still kind of hard to see under the bridge, but it is better than the old setup where there was no extra light at all and simply relied on the "Prepare to Stop" flashers on the other side.
https://goo.gl/maps/XTu7HegXdEhAs5C89
Looks like they also took the time to install a pole-mounted signal on the far left, further improving the visibility under the bridge (even if the signal is briefly blocked by the support columns).
Next up, we have I-44 at MO-141 in Valley Park, Missouri (just outside of St. Louis):
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5387117,-90.4956746,3a,15y,202.02h,90.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7TvgFSL1FnkXN5IHBbDDVQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5387117,-90.4956746,3a,15y,202.02h,90.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7TvgFSL1FnkXN5IHBbDDVQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
What's the point of horizontal traffic signals? Are they to provide safer seeing when stopping and slowing down and going?
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.577166,-77.4313883,3a,75y,124.87h,84.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sICG8s5Qts-hj0eFO4dy5ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
What's the point of horizontal traffic signals?
This is a good question, and one I've never really considered before.
Anyone have an answer?
Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2019, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
What's the point of horizontal traffic signals?
This is a good question, and one I've never really considered before.
Anyone have an answer?
To point out the obvious, horizontal signals are preferred for locations immediately adjacent to an overpass, especially for the direction of traffic for which the overpass may block a motorist's view. If you pan over to the crossroad in
mrhappy's link you can see that the signals were vertical as of 2016, and have since been replaced. I have no idea why the responsible department would have done that.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
Are they to provide safer seeing when stopping and slowing down and going?
I think you've just coined a new term. "Safer seeing" - Yep, that must be it! :-D
Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2019, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
What's the point of horizontal traffic signals?
This is a good question, and one I've never really considered before.
Anyone have an answer?
For the most part, no, I don't. But I do know that horizontal signal heads can help a little bit in situations where vertical clearance is limited. Illinois never uses them, unless there's something related to vertical clearance that might cause problems. More specifically:
1) Airplanes taking off nearby (example) (https://goo.gl/maps/YrKS7iYrTx22FEfX8)
2) An overpass above is blocking sight distance (example) (https://goo.gl/maps/rG6u8AwuWxrRAo4r9)
3) Clearance under a structure limits signal tower placement (example) (https://goo.gl/maps/o7Zph3NcPZQdyGhLA)
Otherwise, I don't see why you would put up a horizontal signal head (Wisconsin and Florida, why?).
Horizontal signals have a lower profile that makes them more resistant to high winds, which explains their use in some hurricane-prone areas of Florida. In addition to FL, a lot of the states that use horizontal signals tend to be located in windy areas: TX, NM, NE, and WI (for example) have large areas on flat plains that get a lot of wind.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 29, 2019, 04:35:28 PM
3) Clearance under a structure limits signal tower placement (example) (https://goo.gl/maps/o7Zph3NcPZQdyGhLA)
Ha! Thanks for reminding me of this story...
Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2017, 03:10:26 PM
I also once found myself under the L tracks at California and Lake after dark one evening, with a drunk guy trying to make a drug deal. It was my landlord (I was renting a room for cash at the time), we had gone into the city together because I knew the public transit system and he didn't, he had gotten drunk at a hotel bar, we got kicked out, he was flashing money around on the L heading back, asked a big black guy if he had drugs for sale, and the next thing I knew the two of them were standing on the platform at California. I felt responsible for getting him home, so I got off too. We headed down to the street, they talked price, my landlord gave him $100, the guy flagged down a friend who was driving by, and then he disappeared. $100 lighter and no drugs in hand, my landlord and I got back on the train and went home.
Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2019, 05:06:56 PM
Horizontal signals have a lower profile that makes them more resistant to high winds, which explains their use in some hurricane-prone areas of Florida. In addition to FL, a lot of the states that use horizontal signals tend to be located in windy areas: TX, NM, NE, and WI (for example) have large areas on flat plains that get a lot of wind.
Never thought of that before. I was thinking poles would fix it but the horizontals are much cheaper in every aspect, but it's pretty rare that I see them around here.
It looks weird in my opinion. I never really liked horizontals.
Before Wisconsin moved to a signal head per lane format, horizontal signals also required less mounting hardware. For the most part, everything is self-contained -- no need for additional brackets, just mount directly within the trombone arm structure (https://wisconsindot.gov/rdwy/sdd/sd-09e01.pdf#page=1).
Kirkwood, Missouri recently installed a good number of horizontally mounted heads on the stretch of US 61/US 67 they maintain: Link to project website. (https://www.kirkwoodmo.org/government/departments/public-services/engineering/kirkwood-road-signal-project)
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 01, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
Kirkwood, Missouri recently installed a good number of horizontally mounted heads on the stretch of US 61/US 67 they maintain: Link to project website. (https://www.kirkwoodmo.org/government/departments/public-services/engineering/kirkwood-road-signal-project)
I don't recall seeing many/any(?) horizontal signals when I was in STL last. These are a one-off situation, yes?
I see the signals are designed to be "decorative", though I'm not sure how horizontal placement makes them decorative (other than being a sort-of boutique element of the area).
Quote from: jakeroot on December 01, 2019, 11:03:39 PM
I don't recall seeing many/any(?) horizontal signals when I was in STL last. These are a one-off situation, yes?
When I was in St Louis last, I saw these on Washington Street where it crosses I-44:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4707/25732740838_f772cee3fd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FcV2ku)
Quote from: Brian556 on July 02, 2015, 01:32:53 AM
Quote from Jakeroot:
QuoteI think most of Texas uses horizontal traffic lights. So, I guess Amarillo is the oddity.
TxDOT Dist. 2 (Ft Worth) uses vertical signals exclusively.
City of Dallas signals on old-style poles are vertical.
City Of Farmers Branch uses vertical on modern mast arms.
An old photograph shows four-section heads with a red on either end on SH 24 (now US 380) in Denton.
TxDOT Dist. 2 does not and has not used only vertical signals exclusively. Arlington uses horizontal and every TxDOT maintained highway in Arlington exclusively uses horizontal lights with only one exception the green oaks bvld/dottie lynn parkway intersection on state highway 180 at the city limits with Fort Worth has a vertical install. As a matter of fact They have converted multiple TxDoT vertical signals as of 2018 to horizontal in Grand Prairie and Mansfield along SH360/toll SH360 and US377 in Benbrook as part of reconstruction projects. Arlington converted from vertical lights during the 1970s.
The Paris TXDoT district does use vertical signals. Paris, Greenville, Sulphur Springs all have vertical signals.
Stephenville TX has been in the process of converting signals from vertical to horizontal as well. Then of course the exceptions like Mansfield who love to use both horizontal and vertical setups throughout the city. Debbie Lane is a worst offender west side of city has vertical lights except the entrance to a school just east of Bus. US 287 which is horizontal then they are vertical until US 287 eastward it is horizontal until the last signal at TX360. Most of the horizontal installations are near Arlington and Grand Prairie in the northern sections of the city.
Now we are in Jackson, Mississippi. These horizontal traffic lights are on the Interstate 55 North Frontage Rd. at Eastover Drive. This is on the East Frontage Road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.3431404,-90.1575963,3a,75y,119.67h,89.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st0BpgzSMnFJhUjGku9u_Ug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.3431404,-90.1575963,3a,75y,119.67h,89.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st0BpgzSMnFJhUjGku9u_Ug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
And the West Frontage Road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.343322,-90.1579689,3a,75y,295.85h,86.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYjju52MJ1MLujpwYW-nXjA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.343322,-90.1579689,3a,75y,295.85h,86.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYjju52MJ1MLujpwYW-nXjA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Sometime between 2011 and 2015, one of the mast arms (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.6880892,-88.1278622,3a,75y,89.25h,84.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s46z-KaMP35mqmt2Lll49kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656/) at I-65/Dauphin St in Mobile came down and was replaced with a "temporary" span wire (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.6879918,-88.1279146,3a,75y,84.6h,81.32t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_oyNLLLsATqw3sbCGUlBsQ!2e0!5s20170101T000000!7i16384!8i8192/) setup that has been there since. The lights facing the ramp from I-65 SB are horizontal, for whatever reason.
By the way, missing mast arms seem to be a common theme (https://www.google.ca/maps/@30.721123,-88.1639473,3a,60y,301.62h,82.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCFdhkvFBtyYra7GSd_lw1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656/) around Mobile.
Yesterday I noticed Roeland Park got added to the list of cities in Kansas with horizontal traffic signals (except for one-off examples in Wichita and KCK). Previously, to my knowledge, that list only included Lenexa.
(https://imgur.com/Da7dji8.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/jYGdpCp.jpg)
I honestly like the aesthetics of horizontal traffic signals, but I'm not really digging those street name signs.
No one mentioned Syracuse, NY in this thread? Has horizontal lights due to the viaducts.
There are a fair amount of horizontal lights scattered around Georgia, mostly at locations where visibility is an issue. But I recently encountered a very odd installation where only one of the lights was horizontal...and it was backwards:
(https://i.imgur.com/fMUXaef.jpg)
I think this is the first time I've ever seen a permanent horizontal signal installed the wrong way.
Japan was mentioned earlier in the thread for countries that use horizontal signals. For others in East Asia, I like Taiwan's and Singapore's horizontal signals too.
(https://i.imgur.com/6WrZafV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HHOPUCt.png)
Japan varies by area, although horizontal signals dominate. Hokkaido is the most notable user of vertical traffic lights...
Hokkaido
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Aafnez6PQisV34iv9
South Korea and Taiwan seem near universally horizontal and seem to have been heavily influenced by Japan when it comes to signal operation.
Horizontal signals are pretty rare in Europe. The only example I can think of is Finland, though even here, vertical signals dominate...
Nylandsgatan
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KCXi7FuZYC2Zj2Be9
Quote from: US 89 on September 08, 2021, 12:51:52 AM
There are a fair amount of horizontal lights scattered around Georgia, mostly at locations where visibility is an issue. But I recently encountered a very odd installation where only one of the lights was horizontal...and it was backwards:
(https://i.imgur.com/fMUXaef.jpg)
I think this is the first time I've ever seen a permanent horizontal signal installed the wrong way.
that light is scrooged up.
Quote from: Rothman on June 05, 2021, 10:30:58 AM
No one mentioned Syracuse, NY in this thread? Has horizontal lights due to the viaducts.
(https://storage12.openstreetcam.org/files/photo/2019/8/13/proc/1939745_5_c6fbd_28.jpg)
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on September 08, 2021, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: US 89 on September 08, 2021, 12:51:52 AM
There are a fair amount of horizontal lights scattered around Georgia, mostly at locations where visibility is an issue. But I recently encountered a very odd installation where only one of the lights was horizontal...and it was backwards:
(https://i.imgur.com/fMUXaef.jpg)
I think this is the first time I've ever seen a permanent horizontal signal installed the wrong way.
that light is scrooged up.
I'm guessing it was originally a vertical 5-aspect display, repurposed by hanging the wrong way and turning the arrow elements...
Quote from: Mr Kite on September 08, 2021, 08:44:25 AM
South Korea and Taiwan seem near universally horizontal and seem to have been heavily influenced by Japan when it comes to signal operation.
It took me a while to understand Japan's signal operation, but now that I understand it, I like that most left turns are protected-permissive instead of either protected only or permissive only (in mainland China).
Speaking of the mainland, most cities use vertical signals there, but of the ones I've been to, Shenzhen and Hangzhou use horizontal.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 08, 2021, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: Mr Kite on September 08, 2021, 08:44:25 AM
South Korea and Taiwan seem near universally horizontal and seem to have been heavily influenced by Japan when it comes to signal operation.
It took me a while to understand Japan's signal operation, but now that I understand it, I like that most left turns are protected-permissive instead of either protected only or permissive only (in mainland China).
Speaking of the mainland, most cities use vertical signals there, but of the ones I've been to, Shenzhen and Hangzhou use horizontal.
Wait, what? What does the signal operation in Japan have to do with mainland China?
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 08, 2021, 03:14:22 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 08, 2021, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: Mr Kite on September 08, 2021, 08:44:25 AM
South Korea and Taiwan seem near universally horizontal and seem to have been heavily influenced by Japan when it comes to signal operation.
It took me a while to understand Japan's signal operation, but now that I understand it, I like that most left turns are protected-permissive instead of either protected only or permissive only (in mainland China).
Speaking of the mainland, most cities use vertical signals there, but of the ones I've been to, Shenzhen and Hangzhou use horizontal.
Wait, what? What does the signal operation in Japan have to do with mainland China?
That the mainland uses a completely different signal operation compared to its neighbors.
Although Hong Kong & Macau have a more British influence on their signals rather than Japanese.
Mainland China varies a lot. It seems provinces are pretty much left to their own devices.
Quote from: roadfro on September 08, 2021, 11:55:09 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on September 08, 2021, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: US 89 on September 08, 2021, 12:51:52 AM
There are a fair amount of horizontal lights scattered around Georgia, mostly at locations where visibility is an issue. But I recently encountered a very odd installation where only one of the lights was horizontal...and it was backwards:
(https://i.imgur.com/fMUXaef.jpg)
I think this is the first time I've ever seen a permanent horizontal signal installed the wrong way.
that light is scrooged up.
I'm guessing it was originally a vertical 5-aspect display, repurposed by hanging the wrong way and turning the arrow elements...
Which still doesn't make much sense, because I don't think I've ever seen a vertical 5-section tower in Georgia. There are a few horizontal 5-section left turn displays (installed correctly), and then a whole lot of doghouses.
Maybe they accidentally ordered a 5 section horizontal
right-turn signal on accident and then turned the arrows...
They used to be more common, I remember at least 2 five-section towers in the Athens GA area in the 80s-90s.
But even back then they were still a distinct minority of five-section signal installations (doghouses have always been the dominant style of such signal here).
Quote from: Mr Kite on September 08, 2021, 03:49:42 PM
Although Hong Kong & Macau have a more British influence on their signals rather than Japanese.
Mainland China varies a lot. It seems provinces are pretty much left to their own devices.
Not just provinces, It's mostly at the cities level.
Though no traffic light in mainland China is as bad as the "shrinking bar" one I've seen in Tianjin a couple of times.
Yes, that's one of those "too clever by half" innovations that shows something that was recently impossible (thus, looks "futuristic") but doesn't improve on what we had already. I can't recall where, but some place else in China has single aspect LED signals which change colours, which has similar issues. Separate aspects helps emphasize the change in sequence by making the light "move". The bar system also doesn't practically allow for anything other than fixed time operational either, which is hardly progressive.
Then you have these lights in Turkey, which have the mast arms lit up in whatever colour the signals are showing at the time. Garrish and a distraction. Also, note the countdown timer, which means fixed time operation...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldTcpa0lsp0
^^^^
It is interesting to note that the countdown timer is in the spot of the amber aspect, but query as to why it is only on the mast arm on the left and not also on the mast arm to the right.
Is that a pedestrian crossing signal? While fixed timer is never great, it is downright horrible at a pedestrian crossing signal. The peds should just push the button.
Selected horizontal side-mounted signals that it would seem to be a result of awnings
https://goo.gl/maps/FDjgDKmP1mt1VBjZ6
https://goo.gl/maps/MwSQBtGdWisUSfaD9
https://goo.gl/maps/quqbt3UpXtcSsMvZ6
This one in Houston of a side mount on San Jacinto Street.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50305121391_2b09dc58dd_k.jpg (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50305121391_2b09dc58dd_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50305121391_2b09dc58dd_k.jpg)
From the thumbnail, that building to the right really looks like it says AT&T SPORTSHIT.
The Houston and Hawaii examples are giving me some serious Japan vibes. Particularly the Hawaiian examples with the tropical environment and types of architecture.
Does anyone know of states other than New Mexico that exclusively* use horizontal traffic signals?
I can't find a single regular installation of a vertical traffic signal in New Mexico. By that, I'm excluding special interchanges like SPUIs and CFIs (continuous flow intersections).
Those (https://goo.gl/maps/pRTYMgk4Q7Ysziud7) are some (https://goo.gl/maps/YThrq74zCvPwNCfr7) of the only permanent vertical traffic signals in the state. Signals installed on a wire also don't count as they are usually temporary.
I challenge you to find a single regular permanent vertical traffic signal install in New Mexico because I haven't been able to find a single one.
Quote from: jtespi on August 01, 2022, 05:36:41 AM
I challenge you to find a single regular permanent vertical traffic signal install in New Mexico because I haven't been able to find a single one.
US 64 and Apache St, Farmington
Paseo del Volcán and Unser, Rio Rancho
Menaul and Wyoming, Albuquerque (though span wire, this is a permanent installation)
They’re rare, but they’re out there.
Quote from: US 89 on August 01, 2022, 08:39:42 AM
US 64 and Apache St, Farmington
Paseo del Volcán and Unser, Rio Rancho
Menaul and Wyoming, Albuquerque (though span wire, this is a permanent installation)
They're rare, but they're out there.
Nice catch! However, I still wouldn't count Menaul and Wyoming NE because it's a wire span. We had a wire span traffic signal install in Las Cruces (Roadrunner Pkwy & Golf Club Rd) that was "permanent" for several years before it got replaced by a regular metal mast arm traffic signal.
It looks like (https://goo.gl/maps/bYz54j9zqSHeFVs68) the state/city cheaped out at US 64 and Apache St in Farmington. They could have installed at least one more mast arm for the cross street and increased visibility. Instead they went with only two mast arms at the center of the intersection and used programmable visibility signal heads. The only way they could fit all those signal heads together was to mount them vertically.
The signals at Paseo del Volcan and Unser look brand new (https://goo.gl/maps/7fgUMFiSzKrVMKsX8) and really nice. Some of the signal heads still have covers on them. There's also a nearby intersection, Unser and King Blvd (https://goo.gl/maps/4HSswWJunkR9QgL66), that has vertical traffic signals too and in the same style (painted green). Paseo del Volcan and Broadmoor (https://goo.gl/maps/2gTcRaAPcNRzXkdM8) has vertical traffic signals painted tan.
I wonder if the City of Rio Rancho will be installing vertical traffic signals going forward? That would mark a big shift for New Mexico away from installing exclusively horizonal traffic signals.
Quote from: jtespi on August 02, 2022, 01:59:51 AM
Quote from: US 89 on August 01, 2022, 08:39:42 AM
US 64 and Apache St, Farmington
Paseo del Volcán and Unser, Rio Rancho
Menaul and Wyoming, Albuquerque (though span wire, this is a permanent installation)
They're rare, but they're out there.
Nice catch! However, I still wouldn't count Menaul and Wyoming NE because it's a wire span. We had a wire span traffic signal install in Las Cruces (Roadrunner Pkwy & Golf Club Rd) that was "permanent" for several years before it got replaced by a regular metal mast arm traffic signal.
It looks like (https://goo.gl/maps/bYz54j9zqSHeFVs68) the state/city cheaped out at US 64 and Apache St in Farmington. They could have installed at least one more mast arm for the cross street and increased visibility. Instead they went with only two mast arms at the center of the intersection and used programmable visibility signal heads. The only way they could fit all those signal heads together was to mount them vertically.
If you zoom in, you can tell the US 64 & Apache St installation doesn't use programmed visibility signal heads--the red and green signal indications appear to be using thin louvers. They probably could've gone with a monopole and achieved better signal spacing--some of the signal heads are practically on top of each other, and that's not good practice (even with the signals having louvers and serving different approaches).
It's interesting to note in that intersection above (in Farmington) the use of side by side five section signals rather than the more conventional doghouse or in-line style. Of course, the latter is by far the most common in New Mexico (either post-mounted or overhead horizontal). Perhaps some Colorado influence; they love side by side signals there.
Quote from: jtespi on August 02, 2022, 01:59:51 AM
However, I still wouldn't count Menaul and Wyoming NE because it's a wire span. We had a wire span traffic signal install in Las Cruces (Roadrunner Pkwy & Golf Club Rd) that was "permanent" for several years before it got replaced by a regular metal mast arm traffic signal.
“Permanent” to me means “this will not disappear when the ongoing construction project is done”. Sure, that wire span will probably be replaced at some point, but it’s been there for at least 15 years. I see no reason not to count it now. And it’s not like wire spans have to be vertical, either - Texas sometimes uses horizontal signals on wire spans, which look really ugly in my opinion.
Quote from: jtespi on August 02, 2022, 01:59:51 AM
Paseo del Volcan and Broadmoor (https://goo.gl/maps/2gTcRaAPcNRzXkdM8) has vertical traffic signals painted tan.
That’s the first FYA I’ve ever seen in New Mexico.
Quote from: roadfro on August 03, 2022, 02:49:02 AM
If you zoom in, you can tell the US 64 & Apache St installation doesn't use programmed visibility signal heads--the red and green signal indications appear to be using thin louvers.
Yeah, I used the term "programmable visibility" as a catch-all to include signals with louvers. In any case, the signal has purposefully restricted visibility due to the less than ideal mounting location in the intersection.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 03, 2022, 11:27:34 AM
It's interesting to note in that intersection above (in Farmington) the use of side by side five section signals rather than the more conventional doghouse or in-line style. Of course, the latter is by far the most common in New Mexico (either post-mounted or overhead horizontal). Perhaps some Colorado influence; they love side by side signals there.
Oh yea, I didn't notice that signal (https://goo.gl/maps/yijLB4ykWJpvb7NR7) until you pointed it out. In New Mexico, we usually use in-line signals since >98% of our signals are horizontal.
Quote from: US 89 on August 03, 2022, 11:51:32 AM
Quote from: jtespi on August 02, 2022, 01:59:51 AM
Paseo del Volcan and Broadmoor (https://goo.gl/maps/2gTcRaAPcNRzXkdM8) has vertical traffic signals painted tan.
That's the first FYA I've ever seen in New Mexico.
We've had a FYA in Las Cruces (https://goo.gl/maps/neFHS7q4FzJKsm3v9) at Lohman Ave and Nacho Dr since at least 2017. That's probably one of the earliest uses in the state.
Also, it's odd that Paseo del Volcan at Broadmoor has a 5-section signal (with a right turn arrow) only for the westbound direction. The only other 5-section signals are for left turning traffic in the intersection.
I'm guessing that this is due to road work in the area, but there are 2 intersections along Perkins Road in Stillwater, OK that have horizontal traffic lights. Here's the one at Perkins Road and McElroy Road in Stillwater:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1302955,-97.0515024,3a,75y,2.32h,84.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9y9Zmqcik33_HB6HqhCRxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1302955,-97.0515024,3a,75y,2.32h,84.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9y9Zmqcik33_HB6HqhCRxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Quote from: David Jr. on November 13, 2022, 03:53:34 PM
I'm guessing that this is due to road work in the area, but there are 2 intersections along Perkins Road in Stillwater, OK that have horizontal traffic lights. Here's the one at Perkins Road and McElroy Road in Stillwater:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1302955,-97.0515024,3a,75y,2.32h,84.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9y9Zmqcik33_HB6HqhCRxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1302955,-97.0515024,3a,75y,2.32h,84.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9y9Zmqcik33_HB6HqhCRxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Probably so, but there are some cities in Oklahoma that do the horizontal stoplight thing. Most of them are close to the Texas border, but you can even find parts of the OKC metro with horizontal lights (like downtown and the entire suburb of Mustang).