New Jersey Turnpike

[odditude]

If I were to add more, placing one on [...] NJ 38 would be nice.

there wasn't enough room for the I-295/NJ 38 interchange back when, and (especially with Bishop's Gate and now Topgolf built out) there's no room on the east side for a Turnpike interchange.

would've been great when I lived in that area, though!

NJDOT is still pushing plans for those missing moves. Bishop Gate and Top Golf doesn't interfere. I believe there's an old house on the SW corner that will need to be taken . The biggest issue is cost. Their preliminary estimates had the 2 ramps costing over $100 million! They dropped the project from the TIP at one point but i don't believe it's a dead project yet.

would the WB-NB ramp cross over the Turnpike? that would help account for the high price tag (if the property acquisitions for SB-EB and EB-SB didn't already).

[D-Dey65]

If I had my way, freeway driving would be on the road test, and improper merging would be an automatic fail (just like rolling through a stop sign is here in NY).

Funny you should mention that, because when I was getting my driving lessons, my instructor lead me to the Long Island Expressway. I believe I may have passed, but either way, I was disappointed she didn't let me drive on more of it.

[jeffandnicole]

If I were to add more, placing one on [...] NJ 38 would be nice.

there wasn't enough room for the I-295/NJ 38 interchange back when, and (especially with Bishop's Gate and now Topgolf built out) there's no room on the east side for a Turnpike interchange.

would've been great when I lived in that area, though!

NJDOT is still pushing plans for those missing moves. Bishop Gate and Top Golf doesn't interfere. I believe there's an old house on the SW corner that will need to be taken . The biggest issue is cost. Their preliminary estimates had the 2 ramps costing over $100 million! They dropped the project from the TIP at one point but i don't believe it's a dead project yet.

would the WB-NB ramp cross over the Turnpike? that would help account for the high price tag (if the property acquisitions for SB-EB and EB-SB didn't already).

It would, but that's the cheaper of the 2 ramps! I know I've seen the design somewhere, but can't find it. If I recall, the 295 South to 38 East ramp was designed to take off near the same location of the current 295 South to 38 West ramp (with that ramp designed to be moved further north). It would go high over NJ 38 parallel to 295, then on the south side of Route 38 make a U-turn over 295 to the Northbound side and touch down to meet the existing 295 North to 38 East ramp!

I did find this news story though. Apparently the project was dropped when the estimated price tag ballooned to nearly $200 million! https://www.burlingtoncountytimes.com/news/20190825/will-nj-ever-add-missing-ramps-on-and-off-i-295-in-mount-laurel

[Alps]

If I were to add more, placing one on [...] NJ 38 would be nice.

there wasn't enough room for the I-295/NJ 38 interchange back when, and (especially with Bishop's Gate and now Topgolf built out) there's no room on the east side for a Turnpike interchange.

would've been great when I lived in that area, though!

NJDOT is still pushing plans for those missing moves. Bishop Gate and Top Golf doesn't interfere. I believe there's an old house on the SW corner that will need to be taken . The biggest issue is cost. Their preliminary estimates had the 2 ramps costing over $100 million! They dropped the project from the TIP at one point but i don't believe it's a dead project yet.

would the WB-NB ramp cross over the Turnpike? that would help account for the high price tag (if the property acquisitions for SB-EB and EB-SB didn't already).

It would, but that's the cheaper of the 2 ramps! I know I've seen the design somewhere, but can't find it. If I recall, the 295 South to 38 East ramp was designed to take off near the same location of the current 295 South to 38 West ramp (with that ramp designed to be moved further north). It would go high over NJ 38 parallel to 295, then on the south side of Route 38 make a U-turn over 295 to the Northbound side and touch down to meet the existing 295 North to 38 East ramp!

I did find this news story though. Apparently the project was dropped when the estimated price tag ballooned to nearly $200 million! https://www.burlingtoncountytimes.com/news/20190825/will-nj-ever-add-missing-ramps-on-and-off-i-295-in-mount-laurel

Looks like they're trying way too hard to avoid any weaves whatsoever at what would have been a plain cloverleaf if done originally. Just tie it into Marter.

[bluecountry]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

[bluecountry]

It makes more sense to have Wilmington/Wash-Bal as the control cities then just Baltimore.

Then why isn't Wilmington used on Northbound 95 out of Baltimore?

I always figured the thinking is that the majority of the traffic on that stretch of 95 out of Baltimore is headed to the NJ/NYC area, and that's why they do that.

Don't they also use Camden on the NJ Turnpike at times?

Yes, just southbound, from 7A to 5. Camden is primary except at 6, where Wilmington is also signed.

It is so stupid how the NJTP just refuses to use Philly.

[bluecountry]

Northbound, Cherry Hill, by exit 4, what is going on there in terms of construction and when will it be complete?

[jeffandnicole]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

[Roadgeekteen]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

Anyone live in Delaware and work in New Jersey?

[jeffandnicole]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

Anyone live in Delaware and work in New Jersey?

There's a noticeable number of Delaware tags around the warehouses and distribution centers that have been built in the Logan/ Swedesboro/ Pedricktown area.

[bluecountry]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

From exit 3 southward it seems to be pretty rural with open fields in Salem and Gloucester County which again I never understood given it is sandwiched between Wilmington and Philly.

[Roadgeekteen]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

From exit 3 southward it seems to be pretty rural with open fields in Salem and Gloucester County which again I never understood given it is sandwiched between Wilmington and Philly.

Did people just not want to settle there?

[famartin]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

[jeffandnicole]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

From exit 3 southward it seems to be pretty rural with open fields in Salem and Gloucester County which again I never understood given it is sandwiched between Wilmington and Philly.

I thought I just answered that question.

Did people just not want to settle there?

I live between Exits 3 & 2. I don't know how to stress this otherwise, but the area, especially in the northern section of Gloucester County, is very crowded for a suburban area. NJ 42 is in this stretch, and is one of the most congested highways in NJ, serving the hundreds of thousands of people that settled here.

[Roadgeekteen]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

From exit 3 southward it seems to be pretty rural with open fields in Salem and Gloucester County which again I never understood given it is sandwiched between Wilmington and Philly.

I thought I just answered that question.

Did people just not want to settle there?

I live between Exits 3 & 2. I don't know how to stress this otherwise, but the area, especially in the northern section of Gloucester County, is very crowded for a suburban area. NJ 42 is in this stretch, and is one of the most congested highways in NJ, serving the hundreds of thousands of people that settled here.

Does the turnpike just not go through the populated areas?

[famartin]

Gloucester County voted for Biden.

Woodstown is in Salem County, which voted for Trump.

I NEVER understood why the southernmost portions of the NJTP are so rural given they are within an easy 30 miles or less of Philly and near Wilmington.

If you're traveling along the Turnpike, it may appear that way due to the mature tree growth along the roadway. However, it's anything but rural in much of that area. The traffic and housing on the other side of those trees is quite dense.

The southernmost 10 miles or so of the Turnpike is in Salem County, which is more rural in nature.

There are plenty of people in Jersey commuting to Philly...I think Jersey accounts for nearly 30% of the Philly workforce.

There may not be as many people living in NJ that work in Wilmington simply due to it being so much cheaper to live in DE. No sales tax, property taxes only about a quarter of what you would pay in NJ, and the toll to cross the bridge are all disincentives to living in NJ and working in Delaware.

From exit 3 southward it seems to be pretty rural with open fields in Salem and Gloucester County which again I never understood given it is sandwiched between Wilmington and Philly.

I thought I just answered that question.

Did people just not want to settle there?

I live between Exits 3 & 2. I don't know how to stress this otherwise, but the area, especially in the northern section of Gloucester County, is very crowded for a suburban area. NJ 42 is in this stretch, and is one of the most congested highways in NJ, serving the hundreds of thousands of people that settled here.

Does the turnpike just not go through the populated areas?

The turnpike ROW hasn't been disturbed much in about 70 years south of Exit 4, so you have 70 years worth of tree growth to hide the suburbs beyond.

[jeffandnicole]

Does the turnpike just not go through the populated areas?

Just look at Google aerial maps (may need to zoom out or switch to satellite view).

https://maps.app.goo.gl/2kcFYZbNLDJq5cpM8

Then look at the same area on Google Street View.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/WxB5V2G9xa5jbroF7

[ixnay]

Does the turnpike just not go through the populated areas?

Just look at Google aerial maps (may need to zoom out or switch to satellite view).

https://maps.app.goo.gl/2kcFYZbNLDJq5cpM8

Then look at the same area on Google Street View.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/WxB5V2G9xa5jbroF7

Yes, northbound things start to get interesting beyond the mature trees, once you cross the Salem Co./Gloucester Co. line aka Oldmans Creek.

ixnay

[bluecountry]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

[Roadgeekteen]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

Philly is not as big/important?

[SignBridge]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

You don't have to go too far south of Boston to find open areas.

[Roadgeekteen]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

You don't have to go too far south of Boston to find open areas.

Yes, like Dover.

[Alps]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

Farm protection and lack of crossings.

[jeffandnicole]

Between Exit 1 and 2 is very rural. North of there, suburbanization increases steadily, peaking between 3 and 4. It declines north of there, probably minimizing near 6 but only increasing slowly north of there to 8A. After 8A, it increases rapidly.

Why is that, given it is right next to a top 10 city?
I can't imagine NY, DC, or BOS having this much vacant land as there is in Metro Philly between exit 1-2 then north of 4.

By the time you get to 8A it is really Metro Trenton.

Exit 8A isn't anywhere close to the Trenton Metro area.

Land between 1 & 2 is owned by farmers. It's not vacant land.

For a better comparison, look at how Metro Atlanta becomes rural once you get 20 ,- 30 miles away from the city in some areas.

NYC is 3 times larger than Philly and isn't a fair comparison.

Boston...well, look at aerial photos. It starts getting faurly rural just 10 miles to the west.

[sprjus4]

Not exactly as big as the aforementioned metros, but Hampton Roads gets quite rural immediately west of "proper"  Suffolk (pretty much west of the bypass, because, technically, city limits spread all the way out to Franklin). Same with even the northern parts of Suffolk west of I-664, though that area has been growing. Chesapeake and Virginia Beach is still largely rural in the southern part of the cities.