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Author Topic: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming  (Read 51039 times)

Revive 755

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2009, 03:02:16 PM »

What did Ed Rendell take a covert trip west?

Another proposed "no cash" tolling facility.  It's one thing to do that for city highways but for through routes?

So, if the politicians can't get us to quit driving via gas prices, then they're going to toll us to death?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 03:04:27 PM by mightyace »
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Chris

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2009, 03:16:53 PM »

So, if the politicians can't get us to quit driving via gas prices, then they're going to toll us to death?

You should come to the Netherlands, where you can see what happens if you tax motorists to death...

Scott5114

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 06:19:51 AM »

I-80 in Wyoming is somewhat easily bypassed.
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corco

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 01:24:29 PM »

The feasibility study determined that I-80 isn't that easy to bypass for a lot of routes

http://www.dot.state.wy.us/webdav/site/wydot/shared/Public%20Affairs/I80%20Phs%201%20Tolling%20Feasibility%20Final%20Report%2010.01.08.pdf

That said, the state of Wyoming is so anti-tax that I would be fully stunned if this were ever to happen- that it is even being given this much attention is fully shocking. The only way I could see it working is if they only tolled out of state license plates, but that might be unconstitutional (maybe if they tolled trucks only-as is an option-it could work.)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 01:34:54 PM by corco »
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vdeane

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 04:48:30 PM »

I-80 in Wyoming is somewhat easily bypassed.
Not if you want to stay on an interstate.
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Scott5114

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2009, 05:24:16 AM »

Well, if you're not driving a truck, there's always I-70.

Of course I'm probably looking at this at a skew angle, being from OK, so if I wanted to go anywhere west on the I-80 corridor I could go up to 70, take it to its terminus, and then up to 80 from there.
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Revive 755

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2009, 11:55:04 AM »

Quote from: Scott5114
Well, if you're not driving a truck, there's always I-70.

Until Colorado slaps a toll on I-70 to pay for widening; adding an extra tube for the Eisenhower Tunnel could make it a dandy toll also.

I've heard there could be truck restrictions on I-70 for/near the Eisenhower Tunnel that could drive more trucks up to I-80, but I've never really looked into it to see if it was more than a rumor.
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corco

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2009, 12:27:46 PM »

Going up I-70 adds another couple hours or so, and the fastest way to get from East to the Wasatch Front via I-70 is to take US-6 up the Price Canyon- I-70 itself is way out of the way once you get to Utah

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2009, 05:10:14 PM »

Seriously, though, I do wonder why they're trying. FHWA has shot PennDOT down time and time again on this matter...
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mightyace

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2009, 05:23:28 PM »

Seriously, though, I do wonder why they're trying. FHWA has shot PennDOT down time and time again on this matter...

I don't know what their chances are either, but the "experimental" slot that PennDOT was/is gunning for is still up for grabs.
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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 06:31:30 AM »

Quote
Seriously, though, I do wonder why they're trying. FHWA has shot PennDOT down time and time again on this matter...

That's because PennDOT (and the Pennsylvania Legislature) was going to siphon/shift I-80 tolls to roads and transit elsewhere, even though Federal law clearly states that new tolls on existing Interstates are to be used for that Interstate highway only.

So if Wyoming intends to use I-80 tolls just for the maintenance of I-80 within Wyoming, they'll have a much better chance of approval than PennDOT.
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leifvanderwall

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2009, 08:58:55 PM »

Does the Wyoming DOT expect to make much money per year with tolling I-80 in the Equality State? How busy is that section of I-80? I think the best reason for a toll road in Wyoming is to put Oasises on it like the Penna Turnpike and the Chicagoland Tollways because there are stretches on the Wyoming I-80 where there is not even a gas station.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 11:27:54 AM by leifvanderwall »
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corco

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2009, 09:45:52 PM »

Quote
There's stretches of that road that isn't even civilized.

I take offense to that!  :)

The road is fairly heavily congested by long-haul truck traffic. Pretty much every piece of freight headed from the eastern United States to northern California and WA/OR/ID/UT goes across I-80 in Wyoming. It's a very, very important national shipping artery, so truck tolls would generate a fair amount of revenue.

The main objective, as the people of Wyoming see it, is that a giant chunk (if not most) of the traffic on I-80 is out of state traffic, so it's only fair that they should have to pay to drive on it, since they aren't giving taxes to Wyoming.

If I were the boss, I'd heavily toll the area between Rock Springs and Rawlins- that would minimize impact for residents of Wyoming while forcing out of staters to pay. West of Rock Springs, folks generally head to Salt Lake when they need a city, and east of Rawlins and then up in Lander/Riverton they generally associate with Denver, so except for people needing to go from Evanston/Rock Springs to Laramie/Cheyenne for college or government stuff, nobody in Wyoming would ever need to pay a toll
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 09:55:57 PM by corco »
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leifvanderwall

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 12:56:48 PM »

It's been awhile since I've been to Wyoming , but if they start tolling I-80 then I-25 should be a tollway also. I wonder if it's going to be run like the Indiana Toll Road or like the Ohio Turnpike if I-80 becomes a tollway in Wyoming
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corco

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 01:24:43 PM »

I doubt I-25 will ever be tolled. The vast majority of Wyoming's population lives along a loose interpretation of the I-25 corridor (I'd consider Laramie and Gillette to be on the I-25 corridor). For a huge majority of Wyoming's population, intra-Wyoming travel involves I-25. On a national scale, I-25 doesn't have nearly the importance I-80 (except from the Colorado Line to I-80, but US-85 and 287 are both perfectly good roads that could and would be used to circumvent tolls) does, so a toll on I-25 would cost Wyomingites significant money without also pulling in a lot of out of state money. Tolling I-80 in the right places wouldn't cost the vast majority of Wyomingites very often but would bring in tons of out of state money- and that's really the objective here- to bring in out of state money

Chris

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 01:29:48 PM »

If such a distance in Europe would be a toll road, the tolls would be around $ 100 for crossing Wyoming. I hope American toll plans make more sense. I do think users should pay something to maintain roads, but mobility needs to be affordable, especially in those regions like Wyoming.

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 01:53:24 PM »

From what I've heard it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 to $20 to cross Wyoming, likely on the lower end of that

mightyace

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 02:02:41 PM »

From what I've heard it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 to $20 to cross Wyoming, likely on the lower end of that

And that's for 402.76 for just under 2.5 to 5 cents per mile.

Meanwhile, PA's I-80 tolling proposal would start at around $25 to cross the 311.07 miles of PA or over 8 cents per mile.

(Mileage numbers are from AAroads www.interstate-guide.com)
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vdeane

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 08:30:24 PM »

And the mainline Thruway is $15 from Harriman to Buffalo (about 350 miles).
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Alps

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2009, 09:16:22 PM »

The thing about Western roads is that the Interstates are very lightly traveled, and the surface routes moreso.  This will just drive traffic onto the two-lanes (US 24, 30, 36, etc.) .  That's not going to be a problem from a traffic standpoint, but it means the tolls will have lower traffic than anticipated.

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2009, 09:28:12 PM »

That doesn't apply in the case of I-80 though, it should be noted. US-30 and I-80 run concurrent for most of the state, and between Rock Springs and Rawlins there are NO OTHER ROADS (state highway, dirt, or otherwise) to get between the two towns, short of going all the way up to Lander and back south.

Also, the proposed tolls for trucks along I-80 are in excess of $100

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2009, 11:07:37 PM »

Okay, I hope this doesn't offend anyone but this is a really stupid idea.  The state hardly has any residents to begin with and really not much along I-80 to interest anyone traveling through.  Most of the tourist attractions are in the northern part of the state.  I-70 is a much more scenic drive if you're heading west.  So why on earth would Wyoming officials want to drive potential tourists and passersby out of the state?  They should be paying people to drive on I-80, not tolling them!
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corco

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2009, 11:28:19 PM »

The objective is to offset maintenance costs. Read the feasibility study- I-80 has more semi-trucks than cars on it. It's the only significant stretch of freeway in the nation with that issue.

The point here is to make money off interstate trucks, which is a great idea as these interstate trucks cost an absurd amount in maintenance costs, as trucks wear freeway surface down way faster. Since Wyoming has among the lowest gas taxes in the nation, very little of that truck money ends up coming back to Wyoming. Wyoming certainly isn't going to raise the tax on diesel to exorbitant levels, because lets face it, a very high percentage of (relative to other states) locals have diesel trucks, and that impact would be statewide, not just across what looks like Sweetwater and Carbon counties.
 
The state of Wyoming is rightfully pissed that it's paying for maintenance for California trucks to go to Chicago without the state of Wyoming seeing any benefit. Because nobody lives in Wyoming, all the traffic is heading for other states and Wyoming is paying for these vehicles to do that. That's not fair to Wyoming.

As far as I-70 is concerned- to go to Salt Lake, Boise, San Francisco, or Oregon from Chicago and the northeast, I-70 or I-90 would take between 4 and 10 extra hours. Most people will pay $10 for a 4 hour savings. As far as trucks- if it can scare them all away with a $100 toll it's happy to do so. No trucks would cut maintenance costs way, way down and the state of Wyoming would be better off financially.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 11:37:32 PM by corco »
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Revive 755

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Re: Open houses for tolling I-80 across Wyoming
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 12:35:58 AM »

I-80 doesn't have the congestion of I-70 west of Denver either.  It's possible I-70 may someday have a tolled section west of Denver in Colorado, very likely for at least a third tube for the Eisenhower Tunnel.
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