Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads

[cpzilliacus]

As the project to twin the U.S. 13 Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel's Thimble Shoal Tunnel gets started, the end is near for the restaurant and fishing pier on the southernmost transition island.

Virginian Pilot: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel restaurant to permanently close, pier to close for years

The unique pit stop that is Island 1 on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel will dramatically change next year when construction of a new tube permanently closes the causeway's long-standing restaurant.

The entire island will close to drivers for nearly five years as a new parallel tunnel on the Thimble Shoals channel is added, starting Oct. 1, 2017. That means no access to the Sea Gull Fishing Pier, which will also be closed during the tunnel's construction.

For many visitors approaching from the north, the pull-off — complete with bird-watching, fishing, restrooms and food — was the first taste of Tidewater. Until a few years ago, travelers enjoyed the free drink coupons handed out at the toll booths. The gift shop once sold sparklers, smoke bombs and other fireworks.

[EricJV95]

Anytime I drive between Norfolk and Suffolk, Here's how I would do it. Some of you may want to use this. So, PAY ATTENTION !!! From the Downtown Norfolk area; Follow I-264 WEST across the Berkley Bridge on the RIGHT 2 Lanes and follow I-464 SOUTH for 5 MILES to EXIT 1B for I-64 (Suffolk-Richmond) and follow I-64 to EXITS 299A-B for I-264, I-664 Suffolk-Newport News-Norfolk. And from Suffolk; I-64 to Chesapeake-Va. Beach and take EXIT 291A to I-464 NORTH to I-264 Downtown Norfolk-Portsmouth. It's a pain; But Elizabeth River Tunnels are the blame for SCREWING drivers !!! As well as VDOT, too.

[Thing 342]

Anytime I drive between Norfolk and Suffolk, Here's how I would do it. Some of you may want to use this. So, PAY ATTENTION !!! From the Downtown Norfolk area; Follow I-264 WEST across the Berkley Bridge on the RIGHT 2 Lanes and follow I-464 SOUTH for 5 MILES to EXIT 1B for I-64 (Suffolk-Richmond) and follow I-64 to EXITS 299A-B for I-264, I-664 Suffolk-Newport News-Norfolk. And from Suffolk; I-64 to Chesapeake-Va. Beach and take EXIT 291A to I-464 NORTH to I-264 Downtown Norfolk-Portsmouth. It's a pain; But Elizabeth River Tunnels are the blame for SCREWING drivers !!! As well as VDOT, too.

Here's something that will blow your mind: https://goo.gl/maps/uybCg6A8BYx

[74/171FAN]

Anytime I drive between Norfolk and Suffolk, Here's how I would do it. Some of you may want to use this. So, PAY ATTENTION !!! From the Downtown Norfolk area; Follow I-264 WEST across the Berkley Bridge on the RIGHT 2 Lanes and follow I-464 SOUTH for 5 MILES to EXIT 1B for I-64 (Suffolk-Richmond) and follow I-64 to EXITS 299A-B for I-264, I-664 Suffolk-Newport News-Norfolk. And from Suffolk; I-64 to Chesapeake-Va. Beach and take EXIT 291A to I-464 NORTH to I-264 Downtown Norfolk-Portsmouth. It's a pain; But Elizabeth River Tunnels are the blame for SCREWING drivers !!! As well as VDOT, too.

Here's something that will blow your mind: https://goo.gl/maps/uybCg6A8BYx

I hope he realizes that during rush hour he would have to sit in heavy congestion at the I-64 High Rise Bridge going that route.  I do not know if I-264 usually gets congested in Portsmouth west of the Downtown Tunnel though.  (never heard anything about that on here)

[LM117]

Anytime I drive between Norfolk and Suffolk, Here's how I would do it. Some of you may want to use this. So, PAY ATTENTION !!! From the Downtown Norfolk area; Follow I-264 WEST across the Berkley Bridge on the RIGHT 2 Lanes and follow I-464 SOUTH for 5 MILES to EXIT 1B for I-64 (Suffolk-Richmond) and follow I-64 to EXITS 299A-B for I-264, I-664 Suffolk-Newport News-Norfolk. And from Suffolk; I-64 to Chesapeake-Va. Beach and take EXIT 291A to I-464 NORTH to I-264 Downtown Norfolk-Portsmouth. It's a pain; But Elizabeth River Tunnels are the blame for SCREWING drivers !!! As well as VDOT, too.

Here's something that will blow your mind: https://goo.gl/maps/uybCg6A8BYx

I hope he realizes that during rush hour he would have to sit in heavy congestion at the I-64 High Rise Bridge going that route.  I do not know if I-264 usually gets congested in Portsmouth west of the Downtown Tunnel though.  (never heard anything about that on here)

It's not that big a difference in mileage since his route is only 26 miles compared to 20 miles taking I-264, though I agree that I-64 in Chesapeake is a parking lot during rush hour due to that huge bottleneck. I doubt I-264 would be as congested since I'm sure there are plenty of others using alternate routes to avoid the tolls.

[Thing 342]

264 WB west of the tunnel can sometimes get congested during rush hour, but 64 is far, far worse (with average speeds closer to 30mph without an accident), and 464 will occasionally get stacked up near the fairly congested I-64 / VA-168 interchange. However, if you're going during rush hour, it may just be faster to take the Gilmerton Bridge (US-13/460) and use Military Hwy all the way to 58.

Source: I drive this section of 64 on my way to my office in Great Bridge every day.

[74/171FAN]

264 WB west of the tunnel can sometimes get congested during rush hour, but 64 is far, far worse (with average speeds closer to 30mph without an accident), and 464 will occasionally get stacked up near the fairly congested I-64 / VA-168 interchange. However, if you're going during rush hour, it may just be faster to take the Gilmerton Bridge (US-13/460) and use Military Hwy all the way to 58.

Source: I drive this section of 64 on my way to my office in Great Bridge every day.

I can agree with that.  One time I went to Chesapeake and left during rush hour so I did that except I got onto I-64 EB (going WB) at Exit 297.  I do remember hearing that the Gilmerton Bridge has a decent amount of bridge openings though.

[Takumi]

I usually take the Gilmerton when I'm out that way. It's a minor pain during rush hour, but nothing close to I-64.

[74/171FAN]

The SEIS for the Hampton Roads Crossing Study is out.  The article is from The Virginian Pilot's website, but VDOT has its own website for this as well.

Public comments can be made until September 19th (45 days).  There are four alternatives with A only widening I-64 to 6 lanes and D practically building everything in A-C (minus the transit only lanes in C).

B seems to be A with a connection to Craney Island and VA 164 (with widening of VA 164 to 6 lanes from that connection to I-664).

C seems to be similar to the Third Crossing plans from before with the connection from VA 164 to Craney Island.  (note A is not part of C, this plan includes transit only lanes)

Personally, I have always preferred A with 8 lanes on the HRBT. (meaning four tubes)

[cpzilliacus]

It seems to me that 4 lanes each way (8 lanes total) makes the most sense.  Ideally  all lanes managed, or 4 lanes managed and 4 lanes "free."

Yet the only HRBT alternative proposes to widen the HRBT to 6 lanes.

[Takumi]

Just do D and put us all out of our misery.

[LM117]

I'd rather Hampton Roads get the D, but A would be my second choice.

[74/171FAN]

It seems to me that 4 lanes each way (8 lanes total) makes the most sense.  Ideally  all lanes managed, or 4 lanes managed and 4 lanes "free."

Yet the only HRBT alternative proposes to widen the HRBT to 6 lanes.

I think my issue with the Third Crossing idea has always been that it seemed to be some fancy way to solve congestion (via expanding the MMMBT instead) at the HRBT that ultimately would not help that much.  I could see alternative B alleviating some traffic along the VA 337 corridor, but I have always felt that HRBT improvements make the most sense. 

[plain]

Yes it would make the most since to expand the HRBT.... but keep in mind the sheer expense. This tunnel is both the longest and deepest in the entire Hampton Roads area

[74/171FAN]

Yes it would make the most since to expand the HRBT.... but keep in mind the sheer expense. This tunnel is both the longest and deepest in the entire Hampton Roads area

All of the alternatives (minus C) involve expanding the HRBT to 6 lanes.  Alt. A (HRBT widening only) has an estimate of $3.3 billion while Alt. C and Alt. D are estimated at about $12 billion.  (in current 2016 dollars)   Anything done would be expensive is basically the point here.

Also the second lane of the new WB Midtown Tunnel has opened, the EB Tunnel remains one lane as rehab work continues on it.

[74/171FAN]

Update:  The city of Norfolk recommends Alternative D.

[cpzilliacus]

Yes it would make the most since to expand the HRBT.... but keep in mind the sheer expense. This tunnel is both the longest and deepest in the entire Hampton Roads area

But on the other hand, the HRBT (and its approaches, mostly I-64) might just be the most-congested (in terms of hours of congested conditions, both  weekdays and weekends) part of the Hampton  Roads highway network.

[LM117]

Yes it would make the most since to expand the HRBT.... but keep in mind the sheer expense. This tunnel is both the longest and deepest in the entire Hampton Roads area

But on the other hand, the HRBT (and its approaches, mostly I-64) might just be the most-congested (in terms of hours of congested conditions, both  weekdays and weekends) part of the Hampton  Roads highway network.

After having the displeasure of crossing the HRBT, I agree. Though off-topic, the I-64/I-264 interchange is also a total clusterfuck.

[amroad17]

I remember when it was enjoyable to drive across the HRBT (in 1982).  From what I hear from some acquaintences who live around there, traffic has now become heavier and a giant cluster all through the area than what it was in 1994 before I moved to Northern Kentucky.  I never had an issue with the High Rise Bridge on I-64 in Chesapeake, unless it had to open.  The largest issue then was the Va. Beach-Norfolk Expressway, the HRBT (not as bad as it is now), and the now 30-year roadwork project(s) on I-64 on the Peninsula (yes, this stuff has been going on since the mid-1980's).  Oh, and Battlefield Blvd. was no fun to drive when it came to the weekends in summer.  Too bad the improvement needed to be a tolled highway.

[Rothman]

For some reason, my first trip through the HRBT in 2005 became the first of more than a few (been a couple of years since I've been to Hampton Roads now).  Horrible congestion every time I had to go through it.  What's more horrifying is the feeling of hopelessness when you think about how to solve that problem -- there's no obvious, feasible solution.

[74/171FAN]

For some reason, my first trip through the HRBT in 2005 became the first of more than a few (been a couple of years since I've been to Hampton Roads now).  Horrible congestion every time I had to go through it.  What's more horrifying is the feeling of hopelessness when you think about how to solve that problem -- there's no obvious, feasible solution.

I actually only went through the HRBT once back in 2009 on a cold Saturday morning in March (my family always uses US 460 when headed to Hampton Roads).  I am proud to say that I have a 100% success rate when it comes to lack of congestion.   

[cpzilliacus]

I remember when it was enjoyable to drive across the HRBT (in 1982).  From what I hear from some acquaintences who live around there, traffic has now become heavier and a giant cluster all through the area than what it was in 1994 before I moved to Northern Kentucky.  I never had an issue with the High Rise Bridge on I-64 in Chesapeake, unless it had to open.  The largest issue then was the Va. Beach-Norfolk Expressway, the HRBT (not as bad as it is now), and the now 30-year roadwork project(s) on I-64 on the Peninsula (yes, this stuff has been going on since the mid-1980's).  Oh, and Battlefield Blvd. was no fun to drive when it came to the weekends in summer.  Too bad the improvement needed to be a tolled highway.

First time I crossed the HRBT was sometime in the 1980's as well.  No congestion at all. Traffic was moving at 55 MPH  or better.

I did not like the relatively  sharp curves that are fairly unique to that crossing, as they do not exist at the CBBT tunnel portals, nor on I-664.

EDIT: Or, for that matter, at the two large tunnel crossings in Baltimore, Maryland (though  the I-95 FMT does curve most of the way, but the curves are pretty gentle).

[74/171FAN]

(from Daily Press):  Apparently, the chosen HRBT alternative could affect when the I-64 Fort Eustis Interchange Project is done.  (possibly could be done between 2032 and 2072, with A making it the most likely to be done earliest with D meaning that it would not be done before 2040)

[Rothman]

(from Daily Press):  Apparently, the chosen HRBT alternative could affect when the I-64 Fort Eustis Interchange Project is done.  (possibly could be done between 2032 and 2072, with A making it the most likely to be done earliest with D meaning that it would not be done before 2040)

Here in NY, NYSDOT formally hands out regional funding for less than ten years -- current regional funding essentially stops at the end of FFY 21.  Even then, NYSDOT doesn't really put much faith in projects beyond the current fiscal year and the next.  The idea that Virginia (and other states I see pop up on the forum from time-to-time) is actually putting out estimated dates more than 50 years in the future is simply stupefying.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[74/171FAN]

(from Daily Press):  Apparently, the chosen HRBT alternative could affect when the I-64 Fort Eustis Interchange Project is done.  (possibly could be done between 2032 and 2072, with A making it the most likely to be done earliest with D meaning that it would not be done before 2040)

VDOT recommends Alternative B.

Honestly, this would be my preferred option out of the four since it seems that the HRBT having 8 lanes (4 tubes) will not be considered.  Also I do wonder how much the connector to VA 164 via Craney Island would relieve Midtown Tunnel traffic.