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Author Topic: Interstate 8 in Arizona - why isn't Yuma a control city westbound?  (Read 14566 times)

MattHanson939

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Big city vs. small city/town for control cities on interstates
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2021, 03:31:28 PM »

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Well right, some states use small cities and some states use big cities unless they can't. Arizona is a "big city" state. Utah is a "big city" state. Nevada and Idaho and Wyoming aren't.

I thought Nevada was in a way a "big city" state because on I-15, the control cities from Las Vegas are Salt Lake City going northbound and Los Angeles going southbound.

That said, I wish New Mexico and Colorado would be "big city" states in my opinion, if not use the next notable town and the next major city as dual control cities; the next major city/interstate junction is most often more well known to out-of-state motorists than small towns or smaller cities along the route.  From Albuquerque for instance, I think the northbound control city on I-25 ought to be Colorado Springs* (or dual Santa Fe / Colorado Springs), southbound control ought to be El Paso** (or dual Las Cruces / El Paso); and on I-40, the westbound control from Albuquerque should be Flagstaff, and eastbound control should be Amarillo (if not WB dual Gallup / Flagstaff and EB Santa Rosa / Amarillo). 

From Las Cruces, I-25 SB is El Paso** and I-25 north is Albuquerque; I-10 east is El Paso, but I-10 west should be Tucson instead of Deming (or perhaps use dual Deming / Tucson).

*Colorado Springs is actually the next major city from Albuquerque on I-25 north, despite there being no major interstate junction there (I-25 is the sole freeway running through that city); its population is over 400,000 people, which is why I think it should be a control city, and not use Denver until you're in C. Springs heading north.

**Despite El Paso not being on I-25, it's a straight shot from Albuquerque nonetheless, and a lot of mileage signs on I-25 southbound mention El Paso (the first two being just north of Albuquerque).  I-25 southbound defaults onto I-10 east (actually runs north-south between Las Cruces and El Paso) at the southern terminus, and El Paso is only a 45 minute to an hour drive from Las Cruces.  This is why I think El Paso should be the southbound control city from Albuquerque on I-25.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 01:39:18 PM by MattHanson939 »
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 8 in Arizona - why isn't Yuma a control city westbound?
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2021, 03:33:05 PM »

Yuma isn't all that huge- I would use Yuma/San Diego on some signs though.
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Re: Big city vs. small city/town for control cities on interstates
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2021, 03:40:11 PM »

That said, I wish New Mexico and Colorado would be "big city" states in my opinion, if not use the next notable town and the next major city as dual control cities; the next major city/interstate junction is most often more well known to out-of-state motorists than small towns or smaller cities along the route.  From Albuquerque for instance, I think the northbound control city on I-25 ought to be Colorado Springs* (or dual Santa Fe / Colorado Springs), southbound control ought to be El Paso** (or dual Las Cruces / El Paso); and on I-40, the westbound control from Albuquerque should be Flagstaff, and eastbound control should be Amarillo (if not WB dual Gallup / Flagstaff and EB Santa Rosa / Amarillo). 

From Las Cruces, I-25 SB is El Paso** and I-25 north is Albuquerque; I-10 east is El Paso, but I-10 west should be Tucson instead of Deming (or perhaps use dual Deming / Tucson).

*Colorado Springs is actually the next major city from Albuquerque on I-25 north, despite there being no major interstate junction there (I-25 is the sole freeway running through that city); its population is over 400,000 people, which is why I think it should be a control city, and not use Denver until you're in C. Springs heading north.

**Despite El Paso not being on I-25, it's a straight shot from Albuquerque nonetheless, and a lot of mileage signs on I-25 southbound mention El Paso (the first two being just north of Albuquerque).  And I-25 southbound defaults onto I-10 east (actually runs north-south between Las Cruces and El Paso) at the southern terminus.  And this is why I think El Paso should be the southbound control city from Albuquerque.

For Colorado, I'll mildly disagree.  Pueblo isn't my favorite town, but it does have a population north of 100,000 people, which for out west, is pretty large.  However, I wouldn't hate having Santa Fe or Albuquerque south of Pueblo (dismissing Walsenburg and Trinidad).  Also, what would you propose for I-70 West out of Denver?  If Pueblo is too small, Grand Junction is as well.

Chris

MattHanson939

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Re: Big city vs. small city/town for control cities on interstates
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2021, 07:24:40 PM »

That said, I wish New Mexico and Colorado would be "big city" states in my opinion, if not use the next notable town and the next major city as dual control cities; the next major city/interstate junction is most often more well known to out-of-state motorists than small towns or smaller cities along the route.  From Albuquerque for instance, I think the northbound control city on I-25 ought to be Colorado Springs* (or dual Santa Fe / Colorado Springs), southbound control ought to be El Paso** (or dual Las Cruces / El Paso); and on I-40, the westbound control from Albuquerque should be Flagstaff, and eastbound control should be Amarillo (if not WB dual Gallup / Flagstaff and EB Santa Rosa / Amarillo). 

From Las Cruces, I-25 SB is El Paso** and I-25 north is Albuquerque; I-10 east is El Paso, but I-10 west should be Tucson instead of Deming (or perhaps use dual Deming / Tucson).

*Colorado Springs is actually the next major city from Albuquerque on I-25 north, despite there being no major interstate junction there (I-25 is the sole freeway running through that city); its population is over 400,000 people, which is why I think it should be a control city, and not use Denver until you're in C. Springs heading north.

**Despite El Paso not being on I-25, it's a straight shot from Albuquerque nonetheless, and a lot of mileage signs on I-25 southbound mention El Paso (the first two being just north of Albuquerque).  And I-25 southbound defaults onto I-10 east (actually runs north-south between Las Cruces and El Paso) at the southern terminus.  And this is why I think El Paso should be the southbound control city from Albuquerque.

For Colorado, I'll mildly disagree.  Pueblo isn't my favorite town, but it does have a population north of 100,000 people, which for out west, is pretty large.  However, I wouldn't hate having Santa Fe or Albuquerque south of Pueblo (dismissing Walsenburg and Trinidad).  Also, what would you propose for I-70 West out of Denver?  If Pueblo is too small, Grand Junction is as well.

Chris

I think from Denver, I-25 SB being Colorado Springs and I-25 NB being Ft. Collins is fine; the next major interstate junction (I-25 @ I-80) is Cheyenne, but Ft. Collins is bigger, which is why I'm fine with it being the northbound control city from Denver.  However, I-70 west could be Cove Fort (the routes western terminus) or simply Utah, I-70 east should be Topeka, and I-76 east should be Omaha.  From Colorado Springs, I-25 SB should either be Albuquerque or dual Pueblo/Albuquerque.   And from Pueblo, make Albuquerque the southbound control city.   Continuing into New Mexico, keep Albuquerque as the southbound control city (dismissing Raton, Las Vegas, and Santa Fe).
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 02:05:33 AM by MattHanson939 »
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Re: Big city vs. small city/town for control cities on interstates
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2021, 07:36:49 PM »

That said, I wish New Mexico and Colorado would be "big city" states in my opinion, if not use the next notable town and the next major city as dual control cities; the next major city/interstate junction is most often more well known to out-of-state motorists than small towns or smaller cities along the route.  From Albuquerque for instance, I think the northbound control city on I-25 ought to be Colorado Springs* (or dual Santa Fe / Colorado Springs), southbound control ought to be El Paso** (or dual Las Cruces / El Paso); and on I-40, the westbound control from Albuquerque should be Flagstaff, and eastbound control should be Amarillo (if not WB dual Gallup / Flagstaff and EB Santa Rosa / Amarillo). 

From Las Cruces, I-25 SB is El Paso** and I-25 north is Albuquerque; I-10 east is El Paso, but I-10 west should be Tucson instead of Deming (or perhaps use dual Deming / Tucson).

*Colorado Springs is actually the next major city from Albuquerque on I-25 north, despite there being no major interstate junction there (I-25 is the sole freeway running through that city); its population is over 400,000 people, which is why I think it should be a control city, and not use Denver until you're in C. Springs heading north.

**Despite El Paso not being on I-25, it's a straight shot from Albuquerque nonetheless, and a lot of mileage signs on I-25 southbound mention El Paso (the first two being just north of Albuquerque).  And I-25 southbound defaults onto I-10 east (actually runs north-south between Las Cruces and El Paso) at the southern terminus.  And this is why I think El Paso should be the southbound control city from Albuquerque.

For Colorado, I'll mildly disagree.  Pueblo isn't my favorite town, but it does have a population north of 100,000 people, which for out west, is pretty large.  However, I wouldn't hate having Santa Fe or Albuquerque south of Pueblo (dismissing Walsenburg and Trinidad).  Also, what would you propose for I-70 West out of Denver?  If Pueblo is too small, Grand Junction is as well.

Chris

I think from Denver, I-25 SB being Colorado Springs and I-25 NB being Ft. Collins is fine, considering that even though the next major interstate junction (I-25 @ I-80) is Cheyenne simply due to the fact that Ft. Collins is bigger than Cheyenne.  However, I-70 west could be Cove Fort (the routes western terminus), I-70 east should be Topeka, and I-76 east should be Omaha.  From Colorado Springs, I-25 SB should either be Albuquerque or dual Pueblo/Albuquerque.   And from Pueblo, make Albuquerque the southbound control city.   Continuing into New Mexico, keep Albuquerque as the southbound control city (dismissing Raton, Las Vegas, and Santa Fe).
Cove Fort? Just use Las Vegas.
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Re: Interstate 8 in Arizona - why isn't Yuma a control city westbound?
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2021, 07:40:09 PM »

This is where using a state as a control city is helpful. Signing it as Utah works for pretty much the whole state.
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Re: Interstate 8 in Arizona - why isn't Yuma a control city westbound?
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2021, 08:12:29 PM »

Yuma isn't all that huge- I would use Yuma/San Diego on some signs though.

Yuma is a city of close to 100,000 people, with a metro area twice that.  It's the 2nd largest city in Arizona outside of metro Phoenix (after Tucson).
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Re: Interstate 8 in Arizona - why isn't Yuma a control city westbound?
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2021, 12:11:53 AM »

Given how much Yuma has grown in recent years it deserves to be a control city. It's a halfway point of sorts for the entirety of I-8. I was a little kid when my dad was stationed at MCAS Yuma. It was one of my favorite places growing up as a Marine Corps brat. Yuma was a fraction of its size back then. All the development East of the Marine Corps base going up to the Fortuna Foothills wasn't there at all when I was a kid. It was pretty much all barren desert. A lot of the stuff on the current West and South sides of Yuma wasn't there either.

Yuma is also a pretty important destination in military terms. The Marine base is the biggest employer in the area. The Army's Yuma Proving Ground also has a lot of jobs.
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MattHanson939

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Re: Big city vs. small city/town for control cities on interstates
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2021, 04:23:56 PM »

Quote
Cove Fort? Just use Las Vegas.

I-70 doesn't even run close to Las Vegas.  In this case, make Utah the westbound control from Denver.

If you want to use a city not on an interstate as a control city, the most sensical way to do this is if that city is close by on an adjacent route and is a straight shot.

Good examples of this:

• I-8 in Arizona using Tucson as the eastbound control from Yuma
• On I-80 in New Jersey, New York City is the EB control as it defaults on to I-95 NB at the route's eastern terminus in Teaneck, and I-95 will take you straight into NYC via the George Washington Bridge
• CA-99 uses Los Angeles as the SB control city from Visalia and Bakersfield as traffic will default onto I-5 SB at the southern terminus
• El Paso is the SB control city on I-25 in New Mexico from Las Cruces (and it would also make sense to use El Paso as the SB control from Albuquerque)

Unusual instances of using a city not on a highway as a control city:

• I-40 in Arizona uses Los Angeles as the WB control city.   Now this instance is unusual in that I-40 doesn't run close to LA, neither does I-15.  However, I can think of two reasons behind this.  1) I-40 is a major trucking corridor, and the truck traffic using that highway goes to Los Angeles (via I-15 and I-10) or originates out of there.  2) This is very likely a holdover from the days when US 66 was signed; that highway did go to Los Angeles.  But since US 66 was decommissioned over 30 years ago, I think it would make more sense to use San Bernardino as the westbound control city on I-40 from Flagstaff.

• I-8 from Yuma to Gila Bend uses Tucson and Phoenix as dual control cities going eastbound.  Tucson makes sense, but Phoenix doesn't since I-8 does not even run close to that city.  I think only Tucson should be the EB control on I-8, and there should not be a mention of Phoenix until the junction with Arizona state route 85 near Gila Bend.
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