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Author Topic: Phoenix Area Highways  (Read 133377 times)

Sonic99

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #700 on: August 18, 2022, 12:08:04 AM »

My concern right now is that the Transportation Tax money expires in only a couple more years, and I've heard nothing about extending it. And given the current makeup of the State Gov't leadership (obviously the next election is going to have a massive impact on that), I don't see many of them pushing for that to be extended. Without that extension, I'm afraid we may not ever see the completion of the 303, Tres Rios, SR 24, and the Pinal N/S freeway, along with any kind of "large scale" improvement of I-17 through Phoenix which is the sore thumb of outdated design compared to nearly every other freeway in the Valley.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #701 on: August 19, 2022, 02:58:14 PM »

If the Transportation Tax money isn't extended, might Arizona have to resort to ("gasp") charging tolls to get these projects funded and built?
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jakeroot

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #702 on: August 19, 2022, 05:51:11 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #703 on: August 20, 2022, 10:04:07 AM »

Looks like Gilbert has been introducing new dark blue illuminated street blades with a custom font. Early versions had their town logo in color, but the newest installations now have their logo in a white outline. Chandler has had its distinctive brown illuminated street blades for years, and Mesa in recent years has introduced branding to its street blades at signalized intersections, so Gilbert is now following suit.

Where have you seen the new Gilbert street blades? I live in Queen Creek and wish they would brand their street signs/blades like most cities do.


Gilbert seems to go through a lot of looks with their illuminated signs at traffic signals. Some of the newest ones I have specifically seen on Higley Rd south of US 60 and Val Vista Dr around Loop 202.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #704 on: August 20, 2022, 10:09:03 AM »

The last couple weekends Northern Parkway has been closed in either direction from Litchfield Rd to east of El Mirage Rd for restriping and signage. Wouldn't be surprised to see the newest mile finally open around Labor Day weekend.
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kernals12

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #705 on: August 20, 2022, 11:39:53 AM »



Check out the bridge that carries the Union Pacific railroad over the Gila Bend Highway in Casa Grande
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rower155

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #706 on: August 22, 2022, 04:03:07 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.   
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kernals12

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #707 on: August 22, 2022, 05:18:31 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #708 on: August 27, 2022, 07:07:20 PM »

Another mile of Northern Parkway is officially open. The highway now goes to east of El Mirage Rd before transitioning into Northern Ave.
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Sonic99

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #709 on: September 03, 2022, 02:23:44 PM »

Another mile of Northern Parkway is officially open. The highway now goes to east of El Mirage Rd before transitioning into Northern Ave.

Any word on when they will be extending it any further? The official page for the project hasn't been updated in over a year. Plus given how seemingly every current ADOT project is going significantly beyond the original timelines, I worry that if things stall out that they'll never get going. I know Northern Parkway is a MAG project, but I wonder if eventually it would be turned over to ADOT kinda like how the 51 originally was built.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #710 on: September 03, 2022, 06:55:38 PM »

Another mile of Northern Parkway is officially open. The highway now goes to east of El Mirage Rd before transitioning into Northern Ave.

Any word on when they will be extending it any further? The official page for the project hasn't been updated in over a year. Plus given how seemingly every current ADOT project is going significantly beyond the original timelines, I worry that if things stall out that they'll never get going. I know Northern Parkway is a MAG project, but I wonder if eventually it would be turned over to ADOT kinda like how the 51 originally was built.

I haven't found anything about any extension getting started anytime soon. There are some houses close to current Northern Ave (west of Loop 101), and a Circle K is under construction at 107th Ave.
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ztonyg

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #711 on: September 09, 2022, 01:35:42 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
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kernals12

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #712 on: September 09, 2022, 04:29:29 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man
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ztonyg

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #713 on: September 10, 2022, 05:06:08 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man

I'm not trying to scare you. It's on the ballot (at a 60% threshold as opposed to 66%). This could end up with very far reaching negative implications for Arizona on a whole host of issues in the coming years. 

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022)
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jdbx

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #714 on: September 12, 2022, 01:12:50 PM »

This is very similar to the 2/3 requirement that Proposition 13 (1978) set in place for tax increases in California.  It's quite common to see a tax measure lose with > 60% of the vote, even for arguably "popular" causes like school funding, libraries, or highway improvement.
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ztonyg

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #715 on: September 12, 2022, 03:45:50 PM »

This is very similar to the 2/3 requirement that Proposition 13 (1978) set in place for tax increases in California.  It's quite common to see a tax measure lose with > 60% of the vote, even for arguably "popular" causes like school funding, libraries, or highway improvement.

Exactly. Which is why I think that Arizona may need to find new ways to fund highways (i.e. HOT lanes or tolling new sections of highway) if this law passes.
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brad2971

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #716 on: September 12, 2022, 09:57:04 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man

I'm not trying to scare you. It's on the ballot (at a 60% threshold as opposed to 66%). This could end up with very far reaching negative implications for Arizona on a whole host of issues in the coming years. 

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022)

No, there won't be "negative implications" from a mere ballot measure. AZ is merely catching up to CA (with Prop 13) and CO (with TABOR). Not to mention, the likes of South Dakota and Iowa get along just fine with a 60% supermajority requirement to pass a school bond issue.

OTOH, Arizona and metro Phoenix are about to find out what happens when most of the rest of the nation doesn't have to live in the Valley of the Sun. IOW, don't expect the likes of Douglas Ranch to be even half-built out anytime in your lives.

Las Vegas is about to face a similar issue, beyond water, when they start realizing that 95% of those who wanted to leave CA...have already left.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 10:00:08 PM by brad2971 »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #717 on: September 12, 2022, 10:04:11 PM »

The upward growth of Las Vegas, Phoenix and Boise from Bay Area and Los Angeles migration likely isnít to end soon.  Take a look at Boise, they donít have a bunch of infrastructure projects in the pipeline and that isnít stopping transplants from moving there.  If Phoenix slows infrastructure development it just means that certain areas will develop too quickly and become functionally obsolete.  Thatís really how the Phoenix metro area was when I arrived in 2001.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #718 on: September 12, 2022, 10:54:11 PM »

The upward growth of Las Vegas, Phoenix and Boise from Bay Area and Los Angeles migration likely isnít to end soon.  Take a look at Boise, they donít have a bunch of infrastructure projects in the pipeline and that isnít stopping transplants from moving there.  If Phoenix slows infrastructure development it just means that certain areas will develop too quickly and become functionally obsolete.  Thatís really how the Phoenix metro area was when I arrived in 2001.
Itís going to be very interesting to watching how Boise grows.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #719 on: September 14, 2022, 10:59:40 PM »

I was just reading how the North Central Utah region is reaching a crisis point with the Great Salt Lake due to population/industry growth and increased water diversion there. The Great Salt Lake has shrank 66% since the 1980's. It's possible nearly all of the lake could dry out if current water use trends and severe drought cycles continue. Consequences could be very serious. Aside from the environmental impact to wildlife a dried out lake bed could unleash toxic dust into the air. The lake bed contains an enormous amount of arsenic along with some other bad stuff. A lot of commercially grown fish and shrimp and the US are fed using brine shrimp and brine shrimp eggs harvested from the Great Salt Lake. Salinity levels in the lake are increasing; if the levels get too high the brine shrimp in the lake will die off.

The Boise area looks like it's in better shape with water supply than a lot of other Mountain West region cities.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #720 on: September 22, 2022, 08:25:32 PM »

So last weekend the new Lindsay Rd interchange opened at Loop 202 in Gilbert. It should help with some of the traffic at the Gilbert Rd and Val Vista Dr interchanges.

Also last weekend, paving and striping started for the additional lane on I-10 EB between Baseline Rd and Ray Rd. Weather permitting, this section will be done and will be the first section of the Broadway Curve project to be significantly complete by the end of the year.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/eastbound-i-10-closed-between-us-60-and-loop-202-santansouth-mountain-freeway-weekend-se-0
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #721 on: September 23, 2022, 10:18:47 AM »

So last weekend the new Lindsay Rd interchange opened at Loop 202 in Gilbert. It should help with some of the traffic at the Gilbert Rd and Val Vista Dr interchanges.

Also last weekend, paving and striping started for the additional lane on I-10 EB between Baseline Rd and Ray Rd. Weather permitting, this section will be done and will be the first section of the Broadway Curve project to be significantly complete by the end of the year.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/eastbound-i-10-closed-between-us-60-and-loop-202-santansouth-mountain-freeway-weekend-se-0

Many Queen Creek residents use the Val Vista exit as a shortcut to get to QC (then go down Germann and Rittenhouse), as it can often be faster than going up to SR 24 and Ellsworth when coming from Chandler. The Lindsay exit will ease traffic on the Val Vista exit.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #722 on: September 25, 2022, 05:07:16 PM »

So I noticed that ADOT has a Loop 303 Flickr link, specifically for the future 43rd Ave to the future 51st Ave:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/albums/72177720301714914

From what I have observed in the field recently, there's a lot of dirt being moved and piled in the current median of Loop 303. The city of Phoenix has graded the future 43rd and 51st Avenues north of the freeway.
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kdk

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Re: Phoenix Area Highways
« Reply #723 on: September 26, 2022, 07:17:22 PM »

I guess it's hard to not be political, but have there been any serious thoughts on how to fund Phoenix's freeway system once Prop 400 ends?

I read that it was going to be extended but was, to keep it vague, "struck down from the top". Which leaves me a bit worried. Also a bit shocked, since Prop 400 has clearly been a boon for Phoenix.

The ONLY one to disapprove was the governor.  Every other leader in the county approves and wants it on the ballot for the voters to decide. It's clearly political nonsense, but not to worry since he's at the term limits. The current tax doesn't expire until 2025, so there's time to get it on another ballot. It passed overwhelmingly last time and it will again. The majority of the people want the projects to continue.

It depends. I don't think Kari Lake would support such a sales tax.

There's also a ballot proposition that has a good chance of winning that will raise the threshold for any future tax increases from currently needing over 50% of the vote to over 60% of the vote. This will kill a lot of potential ballot initiatives.

I think tolling may be the only option to expand the freeway system.
That initiative failed to make it on the ballot

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Two-Thirds_Vote_for_Tax_Revenue_Increasing_Initiatives_Amendment_(2022)

Don't scare me man

I'm not trying to scare you. It's on the ballot (at a 60% threshold as opposed to 66%). This could end up with very far reaching negative implications for Arizona on a whole host of issues in the coming years. 

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_132,_60%25_Vote_Requirement_for_Ballot_Measures_to_Approve_Taxes_Amendment_(2022)

No, there won't be "negative implications" from a mere ballot measure. AZ is merely catching up to CA (with Prop 13) and CO (with TABOR). Not to mention, the likes of South Dakota and Iowa get along just fine with a 60% supermajority requirement to pass a school bond issue.

OTOH, Arizona and metro Phoenix are about to find out what happens when most of the rest of the nation doesn't have to live in the Valley of the Sun. IOW, don't expect the likes of Douglas Ranch to be even half-built out anytime in your lives.

Las Vegas is about to face a similar issue, beyond water, when they start realizing that 95% of those who wanted to leave CA...have already left.

I don't think this passing matters much on freeway funding.

This only applies to citizen initiatives that make the ballot.  The previous propositions that have funded the freeway taxes all were referred to the ballot by the legislature.  those will continue to only need a simple majority, or 50% plus 1 to pass.  The citizen initiatives are the ones where someone gathers enough signatures to make the ballot outside of an elected official.

This came about from Prop 208 that passed in 2020, where it raised income taxes on high income earners to the level of the highest taxed states like California.  In Arizona if a citizen initiative passes the legislature cannot change it.  The legislature cut other taxes to keep the high income residents from moving out of state to Texas, Nevada, Florida, etc, but this could be undone again by another initiative, hence why this is being proposed.

I don't recall there has ever been a freeway or transportation initiative that wasn't proposed by citizens, there were all by the legislature.  I also believe the governor cannot veto these if they pass the legislature by a simple majority (I could be wrong though).
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 07:20:02 PM by kdk »
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