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[jakeroot]

...I wouldn't surprised if Tucson residents are also opposed to their taxpayer money being spent on improving the ITS network on Tucson area freeways.  After all, Tucson is the anti-Phoenix.

A small signs on the side of the road will not cause people to light pitchforks. Seriously, the cost is minimal, and no one knows what ITS stands for. Your creating a false sense of reality.

[Pink Jazz]

A small signs on the side of the road will not cause people to light pitchforks. Seriously, the cost is minimal, and no one knows what ITS stands for. Your creating a false sense of reality.

There is more than just the costs of the signs themselves.  To measure travel times, there needs to be a network of in-road sensors and/or cameras, which adds to the costs.  Most Tucson exits have at least CCTV cameras, however, I am not sure if they have in-road sensors.

BTW ADOT actually displays its travel times on its overhead dynamic message signs, rather than static signs with small LED panels like the one you posted.

[Rothman]

It's not the amount of the cost of running/implementing ITS that is the problem.  If Arizona is like a lot of other states, they're seeing funding for operations constrained, especially since the three-year rule for using CM/AQ funds for ITS operations is now fizzling out.

At least in NY, ITS and other operations have sort of become orphan children that are really only grudgingly being taken care of out of funds for capital projects since that is becoming the way to fund them.

So, if AZ is in a similar situation, I can see opposition internally causing ITS systems to resist expansion.

[corco]

Honestly, it's technology that is clearly intended to be obsolete within 15-20 years (when everybody's phone and/or car will be able to provide them with this same information), so even if costs are low there's not too much sense in making it a priority.

[Buffaboy]

Somehow I found myself looking at Tucson on Google Maps, and WOW, even for cities that a big and don't have many highways cutting through them, Tucson appears very disconnected! I'd have to imagine though that people there aren't clamoring for beltways because of the eminent domain that would come with it and because all of the services they need are where they live presently.

I think about it now however, and this is kind of how Buffalo works. As someone said, traffic is spread around the arterials more than the highways. At the same time, at least we have a semi beltway, arterials and wide roads.

[swbrotha100]

Somehow I found myself looking at Tucson on Google Maps, and WOW, even for cities that a big and don't have many highways cutting through them, Tucson appears very disconnected! I'd have to imagine though that people there aren't clamoring for beltways because of the eminent domain that would come with it and because all of the services they need are where they live presently.

I think about it now however, and this is kind of how Buffalo works. As someone said, traffic is spread around the arterials more than the highways. At the same time, at least we have a semi beltway, arterials and wide roads.

The Tucson area relies mostly on its grid system of major roads to move people around. The best people in the area can hope for (at least for now) is to widen some of the major roads to 4-lane or 6-lane divided arterials. The county (Pima County) has been doing the bulk of that work in recent years.

Here's a link to the RTA, responsible for most of the big road projects in the Tucson/Pima County area recently:

http://www.rtamobility.com/

A grade-separated intersection recently was finished in Tucson: Kino Pkwy going over 22nd St.

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/tdot/announcement/kino-parkway-and-22nd-street

[The Ghostbuster]

I read on wikipedia about possible extensions of the Aviation Highway (State Highway 210) being extended on both ends. The western extension had very strong opposition towards it. Are any extension plans for Aviation Highway now dead, or merely postponed?

[swbrotha100]

I read on wikipedia about possible extensions of the Aviation Highway (State Highway 210) being extended on both ends. The western extension had very strong opposition towards it. Are any extension plans for Aviation Highway now dead, or merely postponed?

Aviation Highway/AZ 210 may happen, but slowly. Some links are below for each potential project.

City of Tucson project (I-10 to Broadway Blvd)
http://downtownlinks.info/

ADOT project (Golf Links/Alvernon to I-10)
http://azdot.gov/projects/south-central/i-10-and-sr-210-feasibility-study

[andy3175]

Now we know that the Sonoran Corridor is proposed as Arizona State Route 410 and is a Congressional High Priority Corridor:

http://www.yourwestvalley.com/nation_world/article_690c7cac-9adf-11e5-b5d8-a7c091752953.html

The Sonoran Corridor will run along the planned State Route 410 in Pima County, connecting I-19 and I-10 by passing south of Tucson International Airport.

At 16 miles, the Sonoran Corridor is expected to shorten the average truck driving time by 20 minutes for shipments moving between Mexico and points to the east and provide an estimated $30,000 in total truck cost savings per day. It will enhance connections with other major interstate highways along with established routes and ports of entry to Mexico, Arizona’s major partner for trade and commerce. These daily time savings add up to tremendous overall savings along these major trade corridors. The Sonoran Corridor will be located within a planned aerospace, defense and technology business and research park.

http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/county-report-sonoran-corridor-would-have-b-impact/article_8e4a9e31-2799-52f6-87bc-f902f9cd4fa8.html

Link to Sonoran Corridor Study: http://tucson.com/sonoran-corridor-report/pdf_bab037ce-7d61-58cd-9a4e-cbc6537d1ff8.html

The Pima County-commissioned report by Phoenix-based Applied Economics estimates a Sonoran Corridor bypass connecting the two interstates south of Tucson International Airport would eventually create a $32.2 billion annual impact to the regional economy. ...

County leaders have proposed construction of a 26-mile connection between I-10 and I-19 as a bypass primarily for northbound I-19 and westbound I-10 drivers, especially commercial vehicles.

The Sonoran Corridor would run roughly from Rita Road on the southeast side to about Pima Mine Road south of Tucson through areas with little existing development.

Huckelberry said bond funding would make up only a small fraction of the total cost of the corridor, which is estimated at more than $600 million. ...

The county’s analysis says the possible business expansion associated with the Sonoran Corridor project among three main employment segments would directly and indirectly support as many 189,000 jobs.

As many as 104,000 people could work directly for tenant companies in the bypass corridor at build-out. Those workers would earn an estimated $5.2 billion, or $50,000 per worker, annually.

Huckelberry said the large figures show the possible impacts many years down the road, assuming the highway project gets completed and businesses relocate to the area.

That’s a lot of assumptions, says Avra Valley resident Albert Lannon.

“It’s based on assumptions, projections and what ifs,”  Lannon said. “I think it’s pure speculation.”

He’s been a vocal opponent of the $816 million bond package before voters in November and has opposed plans for interstate expansions, including the proposed Interstate 11 plan through Avra Valley. ...

Real estate investor Don Diamond”˜s company – Diamond Ventures – has for many years owned a 3,000-acre section of undeveloped land southeast of the airport.

The company has a master-planned community proposal for the land called Swan Southlands.

Lannon said the proposed highway route would benefit the company.

“Dropping it south looks like a gift to Don Diamond,”  he said, noting the highway would run west from Rita Road then drop sharply south before turning west north of Pima Mine Road.

Huckelberry said the proposed alignment was not chosen to benefit any private landowners.

“It’s a location that we’ve worked with the San Xavier district (of the Tohono O’odham Nation) to minimize the impacts,”  Huckleberry said.

A straight east-west connection starting at Rita Road would end up running through areas of archaeological significance to the tribe. A similar east-west alignment farther south would run through areas in the southeast known for widespread flooding.

Another article talked about a November 2015 ballot measure to fund multiple projects in Pima County, including the Sonoran Corridor/AZ 410. The following article talks about the need for a freeway connection to Tucson Intl Airport, Raytheon, the Port of Tucson, and University of Arizona Tech Park

http://tucson.com/news/opinion/steve-kozachik-give-voters-nd-crack-at-sonoran-corridor/article_ba304a36-10ab-5a04-bcd3-205e650756cc.html

On Nov. 3, the voters said “no”  to a package of 99 proposed Pima County bond projects. Some of them were “nice to haves”  and others were key to our long-term economic development. The Sonoran Corridor falls into the latter category.

The Sonoran Corridor is the connection of I-10 and I-19, out by Raytheon and the Tucson International Airport. The county bond was our $30 million match to the full $600 million price tag that our federal delegation has included in the Federal Transportation package. The project is more than simply a convenience for the traveling public.

The completion of the corridor will be the catalyst for several very important economic generators. And it will preserve some of those that we already have in place. ...

The voters said “no”  to all seven bond questions, valued at more than $800 million. The Sonoran Corridor was included in the $200 million road package. Many, including me, thought that if any of the questions were going to pass, roads would be the one. Unfortunately, we were wrong.

I believe the long-term impact of our turning down the corridor is too important to not pull out as a separate item, and this time do the educational work we failed to do in round one. In fairness, the way the bond package was presented, the voters never had the option to say “yes”  to this critical project.

[swbrotha100]

Arizona SR 410...interesting that the Tucson area and Pima County seem to always propose numbers that make some sense. Some of the state route numbers in the Phoenix area (not including the loops) seem to be pretty random.

[The Ghostbuster]

Does the "no" vote mean SR 410 will not be constructed?

[707]

Does the "no" vote mean SR 410 will not be constructed?

I'm thinking you're right... Damn it.

[jakeroot]

Does the "no" vote mean SR 410 will not be constructed?

I'm thinking you're right... Damn it.

Why are you online, 707? You should be out getting minted. 

[Pink Jazz]

It looks like Tucson does in fact now have travel times on two signs.  One of them on is on I-10 eastbound, which shows travel times to I-19/Valencia and I-10/Alvernon, while the other is on I-19 southbound displaying travel time to Valencia.

[707]

For a while, it seems there was a SR 110 in planning around 1998 which would have supplanted Grant Road and Kolb Road from I-10 exits 256 to 270. I have no idea if this would have been a freeway, but here it is nonetheless:

http://www.azdot.gov/docs/planning/98hwylogreport.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Other likely proposed freeways are mentioned as follows:

SR 489
SR 589
SR 810
SR 910
SR 982
SR 983
SR 989

From what I've gathered, only SR 989 ever existed and never was a freeway. It was a short state maintained "spur" which consisted of less than three miles of Tangerine Road west of SR 77 (old US 89/US 80), because of a large bridge over a wash the county wanted the state to maintain. I don't believe it was ever signed either.

I think almost everyone here knows about the never-was-built I-710. Though to some degree, it shows its original proposal with the new 22nd Street interchange they built on Kino Parkway. Not sure if anyone else knows, but for a while, they were planning on bulldozing through downtown to build an SR 210 freeway from Broadway to I-10. Instead, they've settled on the "Downtown Links" proposal after much protesting and compromising with Tucson locals.

[coatimundi]

I lived in Tucson for several years in the 2000's and would periodically see mentions of pipe-dream freeway proposals in the local paper. "Pipe-dream" because new construction of anything, let alone roads, is very difficult in Tucson because of the resistance to encroachment on environmentally sensitive areas. I recall, years ago, they had a map of freeway proposals, including one that ran along Sahuarita Road to create a mini loop from I-19 to I-10. The Interstate 11 proposals also fueled the idea of putting a freeway down Sandario Road. That latter one was obviously just someone looking at that line on a map and saying "That looks like a good spot." It's unreasonable if you anything about the area and the people that live off of that road, especially in Picture Rocks.
Personally though, I always found it extremely easy to get around in Tucson even without freeways. The lights are timed really well, the roads are generally pretty clear (except for the bottlenecks close to Downtown, but those are slowly being improved upon) outside of rush hours, and it rarely took more than about 20 minutes to get anywhere. I found it a lot easier there than driving where we moved to (Bloomington, Indiana) or where we live now (Monterey, California). The only reason to use the freeways was if you lived in one of the suburban areas that were on the freeways, like Vail, Sahuarita or Marana. I would take Aviation sometimes to reach a band rehearsal space by the power plant when I lived Downtown, but would almost never find myself on I-10 except to leave town.
Tucson will never see another freeway. I would be very surprised if even the Downtown Links/Aviation extension finishes within the next 10 years. We still go down at least once per year to visit family, and I've seen the slow, limited progress. But improvements on other arterials, particularly Grant, has been promising. You also have to realize that, with a crosstown freeway, you're most logical direction is from west - around I-10 - to east, but where would it go in the east? Tanque Verde? Tucson is walled in by land that will never be developed, so growth is not going to occur directly east of town.
Just some thoughts.

[JKRhodes]

Sabino Canyon Road is being extended south of Tanque Verde Rd to tie in with Kolb Road north of Speedway:

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/projects/kolb-road-connection-sabino-canyon-road

I stayed in Tucson for four months last year and found this corner of town to be a mess. Traffic on Eastbound Tanque Verde waiting to turn north onto Sabino Canyon frequently backs up all the way to Grant Road, resulting in another queue on Grant Road stacking up almost all the way to Wilmot Road during rush hour.

This will be a very nice, welcome fix when Eastbound Grant no longer has to share Tanque Verde with Northbound Kolb to get to Sabino Canyon.

I'm also interested to see what studies have been done on extending Camp Lowell to Sabino Canyon. Especially now that River is tied into Alvernon; it appears the remainder of River Road likely won't be improved.

[coatimundi]

When we went back this past October, I went out to Sabino Canyon for a quick hike and rolled by this project site. I never get out to this area when we're in town, just because I have no reason to be out there. They've been talking about this since the RTA proposal vote, and it kept coming back up throughout the years in articles. I expected some progress, but it looked exactly the same as it did ten years ago. Since it's new ROW and creates a new wash crossing, the environmental impact is potentially a lot higher, so I understand them being careful with it, but I'm surprised the rich people who live up Sabino Canyon Road haven't thrown their weight around more on this and gotten it prioritized.

[coatimundi]

I'm also interested to see what studies have been done on extending Camp Lowell to Sabino Canyon. Especially now that River is tied into Alvernon; it appears the remainder of River Road likely won't be improved.

Both the River Road improvements and the Camp Lowell extension are unfeasible because of who lives along them. They went through a good amount of hassle to get Camp Lowell to Swan in the first place (article).

[swbrotha100]

Sabino Canyon Road is being extended south of Tanque Verde Rd to tie in with Kolb Road north of Speedway:

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/projects/kolb-road-connection-sabino-canyon-road

I stayed in Tucson for four months last year and found this corner of town to be a mess. Traffic on Eastbound Tanque Verde waiting to turn north onto Sabino Canyon frequently backs up all the way to Grant Road, resulting in another queue on Grant Road stacking up almost all the way to Wilmot Road during rush hour.

This will be a very nice, welcome fix when Eastbound Grant no longer has to share Tanque Verde with Northbound Kolb to get to Sabino Canyon.

I'm also interested to see what studies have been done on extending Camp Lowell to Sabino Canyon. Especially now that River is tied into Alvernon; it appears the remainder of River Road likely won't be improved.

The Grant/Tanque Verde/Kolb intersection was proposed many years ago to be rebuilt as a grade-separated interchange. Of course, this being Tucson, it never happened. If there was ever a place that needed a leading left signal (or an extended left turn signal in one direction), it would be for traffic going from eastbound Grant to eastbound Tanque Verde.

[JKRhodes]

Both the River Road improvements and the Camp Lowell extension are unfeasible because of who lives along them. They went through a good amount of hassle to get Camp Lowell to Swan in the first place (article).
[/quote]

Coatimundi- Thank you for sharing the article. It answers a longstanding question I had about why Fort Lowell turns into Camp Lowell while the "other fort lowell" continues on a different alignment.

Somehow I'm not surprised in the least by that... Rich people, expensive ROW, political pull... and looking more closely at the map it appears a "whatever lowell" extension would require bridges over both the pantano wash and the rillito river. Not to mention cutting through the middle of a neighborhood and possibly a golf course, making an extension very tricky.

Swbrotha-- I remember that proposal! IIRC, they were going to be called "Bantam intersections" and there were a few proposed locations in addition to Kolb and Tanque Verde. At least we still get to look at the dinosaur eating the stoplight today while we wait at it for a cycle or two.

[Pink Jazz]

FYI, logo signs should be going up on I-10 starting sometime next month.  The first phase will include most exits from Tangerine Road in Marana to 22nd Street in Downtown Tucson, followed by 6th Avenue near Downtown Tucson to Wilmont Road in southeastern Tucson in April. 

Interestingly, the Tangerine exit in Marana actually has a text sign without any logos with the word "CAMPING" in the center, along with a small sign at the ramp with the "Camping" tent symbol on it.  I wonder if the campground at that exit (A Bar A RV Park) doesn't sign up for a logo sign, will those existing general service signs be retained?  It is actually surprising logo signs were never installed in that part of Marana, since that exit is still way out in the boonies.  If they do sign up for a logo sign, they could simply convert the existing text sign into a logo sign by covering the word "CAMPING" in the center of the sign with blueout, and rivet on a logo and a plaque with the word at the top of the sign.

No current timeline for I-19, since the engineering study hasn't been completed yet.

[Pink Jazz]

So, has anyone been to the Tucson area recently?  I wonder if the logo signs have gone up, since the first phase of installation (I-10 west of I-19) was supposed to begin this month.

[NE2]

HOLY CRAP PARCLO B4 LOGO SIGNS

[swbrotha100]

Both the River Road improvements and the Camp Lowell extension are unfeasible because of who lives along them. They went through a good amount of hassle to get Camp Lowell to Swan in the first place (article).

Coatimundi- Thank you for sharing the article. It answers a longstanding question I had about why Fort Lowell turns into Camp Lowell while the "other fort lowell" continues on a different alignment.

Somehow I'm not surprised in the least by that... Rich people, expensive ROW, political pull... and looking more closely at the map it appears a "whatever lowell" extension would require bridges over both the pantano wash and the rillito river. Not to mention cutting through the middle of a neighborhood and possibly a golf course, making an extension very tricky.

Swbrotha-- I remember that proposal! IIRC, they were going to be called "Bantam intersections" and there were a few proposed locations in addition to Kolb and Tanque Verde. At least we still get to look at the dinosaur eating the stoplight today while we wait at it for a cycle or two.
[/quote]

I lived in Tucson for awhile years ago. I still visit once in a while. I've been frustrated for years in how anything transportation related drags on for years and years. Take for example, 22nd St, between I-10 and Kino Pkwy:

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/projects/22nd-street-i-10-kino-parkway-widening

"On hold" for eternity? Who knows.

I feel that the ADOT projects in Tucson and the Pima County projects get done at a somewhat faster pace than City of Tucson projects.