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Author Topic: Most Worthless Control Cities  (Read 34614 times)

BlueOutback7

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #200 on: January 14, 2022, 06:00:24 PM »

I donít really like the use of Portsmouth, NH in Massachusetts. I wish theyíd use Portland, Maine instead.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #201 on: January 14, 2022, 06:54:42 PM »

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #202 on: January 14, 2022, 07:04:28 PM »

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?


It's a secondary makes sense
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #203 on: January 14, 2022, 07:16:55 PM »

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?

West of Little Rock.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #204 on: January 17, 2022, 02:30:32 PM »

But anyway, I-75 has none of those cities as control cities and those are not ideal control cities for I-75. From Sault Ste. Marie to Miami the control cities are/should be in this order:
St. Ignace at the International Bridge, then Mackinac Bridge takes over, then after that Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Lexington, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon, Tifton, Valdosta, Lake City, Gainesville, Ocala, Tampa, Naples, Miami. Why would you use Albany, Tallahassee and Jacksonville when I-75 takes you to none of those cities?

Georgia doesn't even use Tifton as a control city, so I have no idea why you would want to add it. Albany is certainly more important despite not being on the route.
Where did I say that they do use Tifton? And how exactly is Albany a better control city on I-75 than Tifton? I-75 actually goes through Tifton, it does not go through or even lead you to Albany. You are telling me you have no idea why I would want to add a city that is actually on the Interstate when you suggest that a city that is 40 miles west of it should be a control city?

Why are you suggesting control cities that aren't even on the route? Like you suggest the other day that Virginia should use Richmond and Washington on I-81 and then suggested that Wichita be added as a control city on I-70.

You sidestepped the question. You acknowledge that Georgia doesn't use Tifton, and you suggest that Tifton should be used, so the clearly implied question is *why*? Is the existing usage of Macon and Valdosta not good enough for you?
What do you mean good enough for me? What's wrong with using Tifton as a control city? You want to use Albany which isn't even on the route. Why would you use a control city that isn't on the route? What sense does that make?
Well I-5 has the control city for San Francisco even though it never touches the city.  Mainly it's a reference that to reach San Francisco you either have to exit at I-580 west from the northbound direction of I-5 in the Tracy area or exit at US-50 west , I-80 West or I-505 south if you are in the Sacramento Valley area trying to reach the Bay Area.
Likewise Los Angeles gets used as a control city for I-40 west and I-15 south it's used as a reference to get to I-10, or CA-60 west or CA-210 west to get to Los Angeles.

HUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE difference between utilizing an interstate that goes towards a major metro area of importance and using a control city for a minor city that is miles off the highway.
I-5 using San Francisco, I-40 using Los Angeles and I-70 using Las Vegas makes a ton of sense. I-75 using Albany GA that at it's closest point is 70 miles away is a joke. Just stop yourself.
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ran4sh

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #205 on: January 17, 2022, 04:35:56 PM »

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 04:38:15 PM by ran4sh »
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #206 on: January 17, 2022, 05:09:36 PM »

I-76 W in Philadelphia uses Valley Forge. Itís not worthless, but itís not really a city.
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Flint1979

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #207 on: January 17, 2022, 05:53:31 PM »

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.
Albany, Georgia is a medium sized city at the furthest extent. Media markets extend for quite a distance sometimes, like here in Michigan the Flint market extends from a little south of Flint itself, includes the entire thumb area, Tri-Cities, Mount Pleasant, all the way up to about West Branch and Tawas and even further north than that so using a media market doesn't really say much. I-75 passing through it's media market with the city itself being about 30 miles away from I-75 doesn't make much sense for it to be used as a control city on I-75. I-75 passes through the area and Albany isn't that big of a city so it shouldn't be a control city on I-75.
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Scott5114

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #208 on: January 17, 2022, 08:56:07 PM »

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.

Bahaha. Ada, Oklahoma has a media market. "Where?" Exactly.

Who gets to decide what the "media markets" are? And what do those people have to do with navigation?
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #209 on: January 17, 2022, 11:21:05 PM »

I-76 W in Philadelphia uses Valley Forge. Itís not worthless, but itís not really a city.
At least it's famous...
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #210 on: January 18, 2022, 06:24:10 PM »

Why does NC use Ft. Chiswell north of Statesville on I-77? I never heard of it until I looked on the old paper map before the Goog became the thing.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #211 on: January 18, 2022, 06:40:24 PM »

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?



It's a secondary makes sense

If you mean that it makes sense as a worthless control city, then we agree.  :-D
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Flint1979

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #212 on: January 18, 2022, 07:20:00 PM »

Why does NC use Ft. Chiswell north of Statesville on I-77? I never heard of it until I looked on the old paper map before the Goog became the thing.
Where do they use that at? Whenever I've been through there I remember Wytheville and Elkin being used. I've spent the night in Statesville quite a few times. If they do use Fort Chiswell I don't remember where but it makes sense as I-77 goes right to it at the eastern junction with I-81.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #213 on: January 19, 2022, 12:27:23 AM »

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?


This one makes sense to me as a secondary control city, since it's where US 70 splits off after being concurrent with I-30 for a while, and Malvern is the next junction with a major route (US 270).
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ran4sh

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #214 on: January 19, 2022, 12:41:12 PM »

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.

Bahaha. Ada, Oklahoma has a media market. "Where?" Exactly.

Who gets to decide what the "media markets" are? And what do those people have to do with navigation?

Probably because Ada is the largest or most important place in its region. In any case, some criteria should be consistently used such as urbanized areas or metro areas over a certain amount of population.

A lot of people on here are forgetting that I-75 doesn't simply use Atlanta and Tampa (which is what it would be if we only used nationally-significant cities). So in comparison to what is actually used, using Albany instead of Valdosta bc Albany is the basis of a media market and Valdosta is not, is actually an improvement.

Edit

If you have data showing which places are actually navigated to, distinct from how populated they are, then that would probably be the best way to determine control cities. In the absence of such data the use of populated areas is probably the best determination of such.

Also according to https://thevab.com/storage/app/media/Toolkit/DMA_Map_2019.pdf Ada isn't its own media market, it's combined with Sherman and the market is called "Sherman-Ada". In most of those cases I would use the first or largest place listed as a control city and not the others.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 12:46:35 PM by ran4sh »
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mrsman

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #215 on: January 19, 2022, 12:48:04 PM »

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?


This one makes sense to me as a secondary control city, since it's where US 70 splits off after being concurrent with I-30 for a while, and Malvern is the next junction with a major route (US 270).

And also in most places where two controls are listed, the secondary is used first (since it is the closest) and then the primary.

If Malvern were used alone, it is probably a worthless control city.  But I think most on here can agree that if two controls are used and one of the controls is a reasonably big or known location, there is a lot of leeway in allowing for a small city as a secondary control.
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ran4sh

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #216 on: January 19, 2022, 12:54:34 PM »

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #217 on: January 20, 2022, 12:33:28 PM »

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.

I don't think most people on here are complaining about Albany GA because it's too small. They're complaining because it isn't on I-75.

I'm pretty sure every interstate control city is either actually on or reasonably close to the highway or a logical extension of it (think maybe 5-10 miles away at most). I-75 barely makes it 30 miles from Albany straight line distance, and it's significantly farther via actual roads.

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #218 on: January 21, 2022, 06:00:38 AM »

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.
Nobody said that Albany is too small to be a control city. We said that it isn't an control city on I-75 because Albany isn't on I-75. It's 30 miles west of I-75 and a through route to Florida so using cities that I-75 actually goes through is a lot better than using a city that it doesn't go through.
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Flint1979

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #219 on: January 21, 2022, 06:06:49 AM »

Not only does I-75 not go to or through Albany, Georgia it doesn't even enter the county that Albany is in and in fact the county that borders Dougherty County to the east (Worth County) I-75 doesn't enter that county either. Albany and Tifton (which I-75 does go through) are 40 miles apart. Albany's peak population was 78,122 it is not a big enough city to be a control city on a highway that doesn't even come within 40 miles of it.
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ran4sh

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #220 on: January 21, 2022, 03:22:19 PM »

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.
Nobody said that Albany is too small to be a control city. We said that it isn't an control city on I-75 because Albany isn't on I-75. It's 30 miles west of I-75 and a through route to Florida so using cities that I-75 actually goes through is a lot better than using a city that it doesn't go through.

And I said that a city doesn't have to be on the route to be a control city. Control cities appear on mileage/distance signs, and having actual destinations which travelers are trying to reach, shown on mileage signs, is helpful even for places off the route.

For example, going southbound, Albany would be used beginning in Macon (Macon would be used from Atlanta to Macon) and then when the SR 300 exit is reached Albany would be used for that exit and then the SB city would change to either Jacksonville or Gainesville (depending on traffic count). On NB I-75 leaving Gainesville, Tallahassee would be used until I-10, Albany would be used until Tifton (US 82 exit), and then Macon would be used. Another alternative for those who prefer larger cities would be to just use Atlanta and Tampa, but that is not what is currently used.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 03:29:13 PM by ran4sh »
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Flint1979

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #221 on: January 21, 2022, 06:55:24 PM »

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.
Nobody said that Albany is too small to be a control city. We said that it isn't an control city on I-75 because Albany isn't on I-75. It's 30 miles west of I-75 and a through route to Florida so using cities that I-75 actually goes through is a lot better than using a city that it doesn't go through.

And I said that a city doesn't have to be on the route to be a control city. Control cities appear on mileage/distance signs, and having actual destinations which travelers are trying to reach, shown on mileage signs, is helpful even for places off the route.

For example, going southbound, Albany would be used beginning in Macon (Macon would be used from Atlanta to Macon) and then when the SR 300 exit is reached Albany would be used for that exit and then the SB city would change to either Jacksonville or Gainesville (depending on traffic count). On NB I-75 leaving Gainesville, Tallahassee would be used until I-10, Albany would be used until Tifton (US 82 exit), and then Macon would be used. Another alternative for those who prefer larger cities would be to just use Atlanta and Tampa, but that is not what is currently used.
Why doesn't a city have to be on the route in order to be a control city? A control city is mentioned on signs indicating that the city mentioned or whatever is mentioned is along that route not some city that the route doesn't even take you to. I don't understand your argument that Albany is a better choice than Tifton or Valdosta. I-75 is actually veering away from Albany as it passes 30 miles to the east of it too and heading to Florida which is where it's supposed to go. Jacksonville or Gainesville? You can't be serious. I-75 is over twice the distance from Jacksonville than it is Albany, Georgia. Gainesville isn't even the first Florida city to be used, Lake City is because it's near I-10 which is a major junction. Lake City is known as the Gateway to Florida as well. Tallahassee is yet another city that I-75 doesn't enter which is three times the distance from I-75 as Albany, Georgia. How can you justify using these control cities on a highway that doesn't go anywhere near these cities? I-75's control cities are fine throughout the entire route: St. Ignace, Mackinac Bridge, Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Lexington, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon, Valdosta, Lake City, Gainesville, Ocala, Tampa, Naples, Miami, what's wrong with that? At least I-75 goes through those cities unlike Albany, GA; Jacksonville and Tallahassee. And why would Tampa and Atlanta be used and nothing else? Tampa and Atlanta are 450 miles from each other and there are other perfectly fine control cities in between.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #222 on: January 22, 2022, 01:28:28 AM »

Los Angeles...when the said freeway/highway is within the city limits of Los Angeles.
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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #223 on: January 22, 2022, 03:37:54 AM »

I would take out Nashville and Tarboro and just have Rocky Mount and Raleigh on them. This is a lot of information on just one sign.

Nashville is a small town not too far away and Tarboro is also the same way (Well it's further away, but was added on that sign when the US-64 freeway was extended there I assume).

Although construction of a new interchange not too far from the existing interchange (US-64 I-95 cloverleaf) is currently under construction, but I can't find the signage plans for them... So I don't honestly know what they plan on doing. I guess I will have to wait until it wraps up completely.

https://goo.gl/maps/t5fWAN7t11JnLQUP9

Nashville and Tarboro can go on a separate sign to something like this.

Just throwing out suggestions.

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Re: Most Worthless Control Cities
« Reply #224 on: January 22, 2022, 11:14:51 AM »

I would take out Nashville and Tarboro and just have Rocky Mount and Raleigh on them. This is a lot of information on just one sign.
Rocky Mount and Raleigh make the most sense there. Tarboro maybe in place of Rocky Mount since you are pretty much already in Rocky Mount at that point.
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