Most Worthless Control Cities

[Flint1979]

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.

Albany, Georgia is a medium sized city at the furthest extent. Media markets extend for quite a distance sometimes, like here in Michigan the Flint market extends from a little south of Flint itself, includes the entire thumb area, Tri-Cities, Mount Pleasant, all the way up to about West Branch and Tawas and even further north than that so using a media market doesn't really say much. I-75 passing through it's media market with the city itself being about 30 miles away from I-75 doesn't make much sense for it to be used as a control city on I-75. I-75 passes through the area and Albany isn't that big of a city so it shouldn't be a control city on I-75.

[Scott5114]

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.

Bahaha. Ada, Oklahoma has a media market. "Where?" Exactly.

Who gets to decide what the "media markets" are? And what do those people have to do with navigation?

[Roadgeekteen]

I-76 W in Philadelphia uses Valley Forge. It's not worthless, but it's not really a city.

At least it's famous...

[roadman65]

Why does NC use Ft. Chiswell north of Statesville on I-77? I never heard of it until I looked on the old paper map before the Goog became the thing.

[CtrlAltDel]

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?

It's a secondary makes sense

If you mean that it makes sense as a worthless control city, then we agree. 

[Flint1979]

Why does NC use Ft. Chiswell north of Statesville on I-77? I never heard of it until I looked on the old paper map before the Goog became the thing.

Where do they use that at? Whenever I've been through there I remember Wytheville and Elkin being used. I've spent the night in Statesville quite a few times. If they do use Fort Chiswell I don't remember where but it makes sense as I-77 goes right to it at the eastern junction with I-81.

[kinupanda]

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?

This one makes sense to me as a secondary control city, since it's where US 70 splits off after being concurrent with I-30 for a while, and Malvern is the next junction with a major route (US 270).

[ran4sh]

Albany is not "minor". It has its own media market and I-75 passes through that media market, thus, it is a reasonable control city. As I've said before, today's population/major cities are not necessarily the same ones that were major when the Interstate system was designed.

Who gets to decide what the "major metro areas of importance" are? I'm using media markets. (There is some relation between media markets and metro/urban areas, but the advantage of media markets is that most if not all places in the country are located within one.) You seem to be using some other kind of probably more arbitrary criteria.

Bahaha. Ada, Oklahoma has a media market. "Where?" Exactly.

Who gets to decide what the "media markets" are? And what do those people have to do with navigation?

Probably because Ada is the largest or most important place in its region. In any case, some criteria should be consistently used such as urbanized areas or metro areas over a certain amount of population.

A lot of people on here are forgetting that I-75 doesn't simply use Atlanta and Tampa (which is what it would be if we only used nationally-significant cities). So in comparison to what is actually used, using Albany instead of Valdosta bc Albany is the basis of a media market and Valdosta is not, is actually an improvement.

Edit

If you have data showing which places are actually navigated to, distinct from how populated they are, then that would probably be the best way to determine control cities. In the absence of such data the use of populated areas is probably the best determination of such.

Also according to https://thevab.com/storage/app/media/Toolkit/DMA_Map_2019.pdf Ada isn't its own media market, it's combined with Sherman and the market is called "Sherman-Ada". In most of those cases I would use the first or largest place listed as a control city and not the others.

[mrsman]

Malvern? Where the hell is Malvern?

This one makes sense to me as a secondary control city, since it's where US 70 splits off after being concurrent with I-30 for a while, and Malvern is the next junction with a major route (US 270).

And also in most places where two controls are listed, the secondary is used first (since it is the closest) and then the primary.

If Malvern were used alone, it is probably a worthless control city.  But I think most on here can agree that if two controls are used and one of the controls is a reasonably big or known location, there is a lot of leeway in allowing for a small city as a secondary control.

[ran4sh]

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.

[US 89]

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.

I don't think most people on here are complaining about Albany GA because it's too small. They're complaining because it isn't on I-75.

I'm pretty sure every interstate control city is either actually on or reasonably close to the highway or a logical extension of it (think maybe 5-10 miles away at most). I-75 barely makes it 30 miles from Albany straight line distance, and it's significantly farther via actual roads.

[Flint1979]

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.

Nobody said that Albany is too small to be a control city. We said that it isn't an control city on I-75 because Albany isn't on I-75. It's 30 miles west of I-75 and a through route to Florida so using cities that I-75 actually goes through is a lot better than using a city that it doesn't go through.

[Flint1979]

Not only does I-75 not go to or through Albany, Georgia it doesn't even enter the county that Albany is in and in fact the county that borders Dougherty County to the east (Worth County) I-75 doesn't enter that county either. Albany and Tifton (which I-75 does go through) are 40 miles apart. Albany's peak population was 78,122 it is not a big enough city to be a control city on a highway that doesn't even come within 40 miles of it.

[ran4sh]

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.

Nobody said that Albany is too small to be a control city. We said that it isn't an control city on I-75 because Albany isn't on I-75. It's 30 miles west of I-75 and a through route to Florida so using cities that I-75 actually goes through is a lot better than using a city that it doesn't go through.

And I said that a city doesn't have to be on the route to be a control city. Control cities appear on mileage/distance signs, and having actual destinations which travelers are trying to reach, shown on mileage signs, is helpful even for places off the route.

For example, going southbound, Albany would be used beginning in Macon (Macon would be used from Atlanta to Macon) and then when the SR 300 exit is reached Albany would be used for that exit and then the SB city would change to either Jacksonville or Gainesville (depending on traffic count). On NB I-75 leaving Gainesville, Tallahassee would be used until I-10, Albany would be used until Tifton (US 82 exit), and then Macon would be used. Another alternative for those who prefer larger cities would be to just use Atlanta and Tampa, but that is not what is currently used.

[Flint1979]

In any case, I get the idea that everyone on here has their own idea of what should and should not be a control city. Case in point I get some people saying my suggested control cities are too small (e.g. Albany despite it having a metro, urban, and media market area), and other saying that my suggested control cities should be smaller (e.g. my omission of Winchester VA for I-81 because Roanoke and Hagerstown are more appropriate control cities). Thus, I no longer care what most people have to say regarding my suggested control cities.

Nobody said that Albany is too small to be a control city. We said that it isn't an control city on I-75 because Albany isn't on I-75. It's 30 miles west of I-75 and a through route to Florida so using cities that I-75 actually goes through is a lot better than using a city that it doesn't go through.

And I said that a city doesn't have to be on the route to be a control city. Control cities appear on mileage/distance signs, and having actual destinations which travelers are trying to reach, shown on mileage signs, is helpful even for places off the route.

For example, going southbound, Albany would be used beginning in Macon (Macon would be used from Atlanta to Macon) and then when the SR 300 exit is reached Albany would be used for that exit and then the SB city would change to either Jacksonville or Gainesville (depending on traffic count). On NB I-75 leaving Gainesville, Tallahassee would be used until I-10, Albany would be used until Tifton (US 82 exit), and then Macon would be used. Another alternative for those who prefer larger cities would be to just use Atlanta and Tampa, but that is not what is currently used.

Why doesn't a city have to be on the route in order to be a control city? A control city is mentioned on signs indicating that the city mentioned or whatever is mentioned is along that route not some city that the route doesn't even take you to. I don't understand your argument that Albany is a better choice than Tifton or Valdosta. I-75 is actually veering away from Albany as it passes 30 miles to the east of it too and heading to Florida which is where it's supposed to go. Jacksonville or Gainesville? You can't be serious. I-75 is over twice the distance from Jacksonville than it is Albany, Georgia. Gainesville isn't even the first Florida city to be used, Lake City is because it's near I-10 which is a major junction. Lake City is known as the Gateway to Florida as well. Tallahassee is yet another city that I-75 doesn't enter which is three times the distance from I-75 as Albany, Georgia. How can you justify using these control cities on a highway that doesn't go anywhere near these cities? I-75's control cities are fine throughout the entire route: St. Ignace, Mackinac Bridge, Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Lexington, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon, Valdosta, Lake City, Gainesville, Ocala, Tampa, Naples, Miami, what's wrong with that? At least I-75 goes through those cities unlike Albany, GA; Jacksonville and Tallahassee. And why would Tampa and Atlanta be used and nothing else? Tampa and Atlanta are 450 miles from each other and there are other perfectly fine control cities in between.

[SeriesE]

Los Angeles...when the said freeway/highway is within the city limits of Los Angeles.

[tolbs17]

I would take out Nashville and Tarboro and just have Rocky Mount and Raleigh on them. This is a lot of information on just one sign.

Nashville is a small town not too far away and Tarboro is also the same way (Well it's further away, but was added on that sign when the US-64 freeway was extended there I assume).

Although construction of a new interchange not too far from the existing interchange (US-64 I-95 cloverleaf) is currently under construction, but I can't find the signage plans for them... So I don't honestly know what they plan on doing. I guess I will have to wait until it wraps up completely.

https://goo.gl/maps/t5fWAN7t11JnLQUP9

Nashville and Tarboro can go on a separate sign to something like this.

Just throwing out suggestions.

[Flint1979]

I would take out Nashville and Tarboro and just have Rocky Mount and Raleigh on them. This is a lot of information on just one sign.

Rocky Mount and Raleigh make the most sense there. Tarboro maybe in place of Rocky Mount since you are pretty much already in Rocky Mount at that point.

[Ted$8roadFan]

I-76 W in Philadelphia uses Valley Forge. It's not worthless, but it's not really a city.

At least it's famous...

True, and it's preferable to the alternatives.

[roadman65]

I would take out Nashville and Tarboro and just have Rocky Mount and Raleigh on them. This is a lot of information on just one sign.

Rocky Mount and Raleigh make the most sense there. Tarboro maybe in place of Rocky Mount since you are pretty much already in Rocky Mount at that point.

When I-87 gets applied Raleigh will make it on I-95 guides as well as Williamston or even Norfolk.

[Roadgeekteen]

I-76 W in Philadelphia uses Valley Forge. It's not worthless, but it's not really a city.

At least it's famous...

True, and it's preferable to the alternatives.

You could sign Harrisburg.

[Scott5114]

Los Angeles...when the said freeway/highway is within the city limits of Los Angeles.

You see that in lots of cities. A lot of times it's assumed that "Los Angeles" means "downtown Los Angeles", but nobody but the guy making the sign is going to understand that. If you mean downtown, say downtown. The control city should change to the next one at the city limits.

[SeriesE]

Los Angeles...when the said freeway/highway is within the city limits of Los Angeles.

You see that in lots of cities. A lot of times it's assumed that "Los Angeles" means "downtown Los Angeles", but nobody but the guy making the sign is going to understand that. If you mean downtown, say downtown. The control city should change to the next one at the city limits.

Completely agreed. It's even worse if the "city center" moved to a different part of the city from decades of development (and therefore is the primary destination for most visitors) and the signs for the city still points towards the old downtown (which few people go anymore).

[ran4sh]

City limits are arbitrary borders which can be marked with a sign if helpful to motorists, but should not be a major factor in most signage decisions.

The MUTCD even says so:

Section 2E.07, paragraph 1

Support:
01 Urban conditions are characterized not so much by city limits or other arbitrary boundaries, as by the following features:

    Mainline roadways with more than two lanes in each direction;
    High traffic volumes on the through roadways;
    High volumes of traffic entering and leaving interchanges;
    Interchanges closely spaced;
    Roadway and interchange lighting;
    Three or more interchanges serving the major city;
    A loop, circumferential, or spur serving a sizable portion of the urban population; and
    Visual clutter from roadside development.

[sprjus4]

^ None of those apply to Albany and I-75.