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Author Topic: Signage at Freeway Interchanges  (Read 7634 times)

Dirt Roads

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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2021, 12:30:54 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.

There are two cones where the sign was previously.  Wouldn't surprise me that a truck leaving or backing into the tire shop took it out.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2021, 12:38:41 PM »

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.
I think route shields are as important as freeway entrance signs, and both should be used together, like what CA does. Here's an example north of Seattle with just a freeway entrance sign. There's no signage for which freeway it is here, or behind the image, so how is a driver following signs supposed to know that ramp is for I-5 NB?
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2021, 01:00:00 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.

Wouldn't just replacing the I-78 sign be a better option then using a generic sign?  If the sign was taken out by another vehicle, the same thing could happen to a 'Freeway Entrance' sign as well.
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2021, 02:57:03 PM »

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.

I think route shields are as important as freeway entrance signs, and both should be used together, like what CA does. Here's an example north of Seattle with just a freeway entrance sign. There's no signage for which freeway it is here, or behind the image, so how is a driver following signs supposed to know that ramp is for I-5 NB?


I would agree to an extent, although I'll add my two cents as it regards Seattle. To sum it up: there should never be any confusion around here about which freeway you are entering.

WSDOT has some Caltrans inspirations in its freeway designs, from gore point markings to early usage of mixed-case destination legends to ramp meters and even freeway entrance assemblies. The difference here in Washington seems to be that, as we don't have the same number of freeways that you find in some regions of California, and our ramp configurations are a bit more typical (not like the distantly-spaced off and on-ramps common in Los Angeles that initially lead to freeway entrance assemblies), you never saw WSDOT go full-Caltrans with freeway entrance assemblies as there wasn't as much concern about drivers not finding the correct ramp. There aren't that many freeways to begin with, and most of them are distantly spaced.

That said, WSDOT doesn't usually leave you hanging. BGS assemblies are the norm at most freeway interchanges, unlike many states where you sometimes get a route shield before the ramp, and that's it. Approaching the I-5 interchange in Martha Lake as an example, large signs immediately before the ramps indicate the route and destinations, with arrows or other supplemental messaging, with the ramps then having the freeway entrance assemblies to guide you onto the freeway. Would I like route shields below the freeway entrance sign anyway? Sure, but there is virtually no chance of confusion about which freeway you are entering as there are always guide signs right at the interchange.

As to your example (196 St westbound entering I-5 northbound, Lynnwood), that is a very unusual example of an on-ramp without signage. There is signage, but it's admittedly placed too far in advance. Same for the other direction. Route shields at the ramps would be a significant improvement at those examples; at least eastbound on 196 St, there is a guide sign on the signal mast arm (better than nothing, I guess).
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SkyPesos

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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2021, 03:11:55 PM »

That said, WSDOT doesn't usually leave you hanging. BGS assemblies are the norm at most freeway interchanges, unlike many states where you sometimes get a route shield before the ramp, and that's it. Approaching the I-5 interchange in Martha Lake as an example, large signs immediately before the ramps indicate the route and destinations, with arrows or other supplemental messaging, with the ramps then having the freeway entrance assemblies to guide you onto the freeway. Would I like route shields below the freeway entrance sign anyway? Sure, but there is virtually no chance of confusion about which freeway you are entering as there are always guide signs right at the interchange.
I knew WSDOT generally uses BGS to sign freeway onramps (similar to OhioDOT in a way, except ODOT place their signage overhead instead of at ground level in urban areas), so yes, I was nitpicking through Seattle's onramps to find one without a BGS, and only the freeway entrance sign.
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2021, 10:24:43 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.

Wouldn't just replacing the I-78 sign be a better option then using a generic sign?  If the sign was taken out by another vehicle, the same thing could happen to a 'Freeway Entrance' sign as well.

Still though shields by themselves could still mean the next turn is for a local street. I think the freeway entrance would be good considering the ramp ahead appears to look like another side street.  Me personally would do as New York does and install an overhead ramp sign here. My dad once turned down a side street in DC thinking he was going around the block near the museums, but turned into the 7th Street tunnel which is a freeway spur onto I-395 and has no connection to the next several blocks.  The same could be done here by a motorists despite Wainright being a one way one block previous.


BTW didnít notice the cones there as well. Plus it could be any sign taken out there not just a shield.
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2021, 01:08:45 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.
At least there is a turn involved. Here in Iselin if you continue straight beyond this point the road becomes an entrance to the Garden State Parkway
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5611713,-74.3270741,3a,30y,135.25h,88.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sP782x5calxD2J0m12eTXKQ!2e0!5s20210701T000000!7i16384!8i8192
The "TO US 1" assembly is your only hint this is about to happen. This is made even worse by the fact that trucks are not allowed on the Parkway.
This recently installed sign
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.560952,-74.3253849,3a,75y,59.58h,91.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stC_Q-i-gTaYRmkQzqut5vg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
in a useless location should have been posted at the traffic light with "ahead" and "only", and a "no trucks" warning.
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roadman65

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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2021, 02:26:01 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.
At least there is a turn involved. Here in Iselin if you continue straight beyond this point the road becomes an entrance to the Garden State Parkway
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5611713,-74.3270741,3a,30y,135.25h,88.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sP782x5calxD2J0m12eTXKQ!2e0!5s20210701T000000!7i16384!8i8192
The "TO US 1" assembly is your only hint this is about to happen. This is made even worse by the fact that trucks are not allowed on the Parkway.
This recently installed sign
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.560952,-74.3253849,3a,75y,59.58h,91.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stC_Q-i-gTaYRmkQzqut5vg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
in a useless location should have been posted at the traffic light with "ahead" and "only", and a "no trucks" warning.

I used to work at Prudential there and would see semis have to make a u turn constantly due to the abrupt change from local road to parkway ramps.  I can imagine now itís worse with GPS.

https://goo.gl/maps/dxLFM1ZNkcq2AZpF6
Too late to post a sign like this.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 02:28:18 PM by roadman65 »
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2021, 12:38:00 AM »


That said, WSDOT doesn't usually leave you hanging. BGS assemblies are the norm at most freeway interchanges, unlike many states where you sometimes get a route shield before the ramp, and that's it. Approaching the I-5 interchange in Martha Lake as an example, large signs immediately before the ramps indicate the route and destinations, with arrows or other supplemental messaging, with the ramps then having the freeway entrance assemblies to guide you onto the freeway. Would I like route shields below the freeway entrance sign anyway? Sure, but there is virtually no chance of confusion about which freeway you are entering as there are always guide signs right at the interchange.


Whatís the I-5 shield greenout covering up?
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SkyPesos

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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2021, 12:40:40 AM »


That said, WSDOT doesn't usually leave you hanging. BGS assemblies are the norm at most freeway interchanges, unlike many states where you sometimes get a route shield before the ramp, and that's it. Approaching the I-5 interchange in Martha Lake as an example, large signs immediately before the ramps indicate the route and destinations, with arrows or other supplemental messaging, with the ramps then having the freeway entrance assemblies to guide you onto the freeway. Would I like route shields below the freeway entrance sign anyway? Sure, but there is virtually no chance of confusion about which freeway you are entering as there are always guide signs right at the interchange.


Whatís the I-5 shield greenout covering up?
An better looking I-5 shield that isn't oversized like the greenout:
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.8497687,-122.2598609,3a,15y,125.02h,95.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWRhugJTT0GtPcmxGjcV0qA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2021, 09:19:59 AM »

After working tolls for years, no matter how big the word toll is on a guide sign, as long as the GPS is telling them to turn left, turn right, or one mile ahead you will be exiting, etc. the freeway entrance signs will not be focused on either.

Big shields, little shields, or even overhead signs wonít help with many to determine a freeway ramp.  Heck, the exit guides at Orlando Airport tell you how to get to Disney World, yet people will still program their GPS to take them there, and bitch at the toll they have to pay on the toll road that isnít even on the way the sign points to. Most of all the driver admits not paying attention to the signs and being out of state is the reason they wonít look at a sign that is there in plain sight without needing a second glance.

Remember the GPS is Simon and Simon says to go here.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 09:22:48 AM by roadman65 »
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2021, 08:27:37 PM »

Here in North Carolina, they are normally to the side unless it's a busy highway (and arterial) like this(well it will get more traffic in the future) or this, but sometimes even busy highways have them to the side like here.

-Tolbs
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2021, 12:06:03 PM »

The difference here in Washington seems to be that, as we don't have the same number of freeways that you find in some regions of California, and our ramp configurations are a bit more typical (not like the distantly-spaced off and on-ramps common in Los Angeles that initially lead to freeway entrance assemblies), you never saw WSDOT go full-Caltrans with freeway entrance assemblies as there wasn't as much concern about drivers not finding the correct ramp. There aren't that many freeways to begin with, and most of them are distantly spaced.

I'd support posting them in rural Louisiana. Just because a "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" sign makes it plainly clear that you're entering a freeway with freeway driving conditions.
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2021, 12:28:29 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.

It's also the same intersection we discussed a couple years ago with that damn doghouse with the red arrow in it smdh. Newark!!
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2021, 11:04:11 PM »

Ontario doesn't seem to use solely a shield except for a select few examples, I can remember that one QEW entrance was an oversize shield. Other than that, it's always a "SGS (small green sign)" except for some Toronto ones that have a BGS
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Re: Signage at Freeway Interchanges
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2021, 11:52:08 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/GzKNnvw1WDAirXEN9
This intersection in Newark, NJ has no indication that turning right at the light leads you onto a freeway exclusively.  Years ago giant I-78 shields were present here, but looking at the design of the intersection from the driver perspective here, it looks like any other street and not a ramp as it really is.

This is why Freeway Entrance Signs are needed at all freeway ramps.

There are two cones where the sign was previously.  Wouldn't surprise me that a truck leaving or backing into the tire shop took it out.

It's hidden by the truck in the specific GMSV image roadman65 posted, but there is an East I-78 trailblazer adjacent to the signal post.
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