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Author Topic: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon  (Read 10993 times)

The Ghostbuster

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 05:39:52 PM »

This reminds me of the two interchanges at State Highway 72 along the constructed portion of the Bella Vista Bypass. One of those seems redundant to me, although I'd understand it better if the highway between the two interchanges was a AR-72/549 duplex.
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roadman65

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2019, 11:17:33 PM »

Some people may say the same on I-95 near Emporia, VA with two exit ramps close to each other. Though one ramp is for US 301 NB while the one following it connects to a VA Secondary Route that connects to US 301 north of where the Exit 12 ramp merges onto US 301.

This was done because the 12 ramp is where I-95 ended for several years until the 12-41 part of the freeway was completed in stages from 1980 to 1983.  Rather than tear down the bridge that once carried US 301 over NB I-95 they just left it as a ramp between the two routes instead.

My question is why did not VDOT just eliminate the next ramp and just let US 301 be the defacto ramp to the secondary route? A question better suited for the Mid Atlantic thread, but this is to say that the configuration here is nowhere near odd.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2019, 03:41:38 PM »

The western interchange at least reduces backtracking for traffic coming to/from CO 71, but switching the middle interchange to CO 71 would be even better.

CO 71 doesn't seem to go anywhere significant, though it is undoubtedly useful to the small towns and cattle ranches along the way. The "western" (really middle) interchange is at a more useful location for travel to and from Colorado Springs.
CO-71 to me is a way to totally bypass Denver when I drive from Southern Colorado to I-76 enroute to Nebraska. Because I don't really care to drive through beautiful downtown Limon, if I'm coming from Colorado Springs and headed up 71, I will get on I-70 at the westernmost exit and travel to the next one, which is a short backtrack to CO-71. Same thing in reverse if I'm returning.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 03:45:29 PM by The High Plains Traveler »
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TXtoNJ

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2019, 03:52:30 PM »

Id guess it was because they had money to build ramp bridges over the railroad, and if youve got it, you had better spend it.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2019, 01:19:05 PM »

There's a huge gap in dates on Historic Aerials.  Are we even sure both interchanges were constructed at the same time?
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2019, 12:00:33 PM »

Nevermind that BL-70 goes through these two interchanges by the airport; one was enough, but apparently, either the Town of Limon or CDOT didn't agree with this.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2019, 02:48:49 PM »

[Also, keep in mind I-70 was built through that area about 50 years ago.  It's possible the interchanges were intentionally overbuilt in anticipation of future growth (which so far hasn't really materialized).  But don't count Limon out just yet, because they are still the Hub City of the Plains!

This is a great point. Limon exists at a moderately important crossroads. Historically, those cities have gotten bigger with improved transportation access. However, they also need something else for business to move there. Right now, it's too far from Denver to attract those transportation-related businesses so it's mostly a big truck stop town, especially for those vehicles using US 24 or US 287.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2019, 08:55:22 PM »

It's made so thru traffic going between 70 and 287 doesn't have to endure the terrible traffic on BL-70 east of Limon.  :bigass:
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2019, 12:05:12 PM »

The western interchange is the one I think is unnecessary. How much does it really hurt people to exit at US 287 and head west?

If, by "the western interchange", you mean the western one in the image posted in the OP, then I agree with you.  As there are three interchanges for Limon, this is actually the middle one.

If the railroad crossing at US-40 was already grade-separated when I-70 was constructed, which is how I interpreted US 89's comment, then that interchange serves no functional purpose.  There is virtually no disadvantage to the layout shown below.



If I'm a truck coming up US-287/US-40 from the southeast and heading toward Denver (there's a lot of traffic in this direction), it's seems like it would be easier to skip that 1st interchange and merge onto I-70 at the 2nd interchange.  Basically the same distance and no left-hand turn.

The interchanges all seem fine to me.  Some of them are probably less-used, but they all seem to have at least some sort of utility.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2019, 05:18:44 AM »

What is up with the wide median just east of the US 287 interchange?
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2019, 05:02:54 PM »

What is up with the wide median just east of the US 287 interchange?
I-70's westbound lanes were placed upon the original alignment of US 24.  But the eastbound lanes were new construction, and they follow a straighter alignment, hence the slight bifurcation.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2019, 01:21:30 PM »

Quote from: skluth
Limon exists at a moderately important crossroads. Historically, those cities have gotten bigger with improved transportation access. However, they also need something else for business to move there. Right now, it's too far from Denver to attract those transportation-related businesses so it's mostly a big truck stop town, especially for those vehicles using US 24 or US 287.

I think Limon would be an excellent start point for a diagonal Interstate directly connecting the Denver and Oklahoma City areas (similar to the way OKC & St Louis are connected by diagonal I-44). As I-70 goes East toward Limon it's already following a diagonal path toward OKC. US-287/40 continues that diagonal down to Kit Carson. Then the diagonal stops unfortunately. Most of the roads in the plains East of the Front Range are built on a N-S-E-W grid with very few diagonal routes.

If such a diagonal Interstate was built the existing US-287 exit from I-70 could be demolished and rebuilt as a directional Y interchange, maybe even taking advantage of that big odd gap in the I-70 median East of the existing US-287 exit. The construction could be done without really disrupting existing US-287 traffic since US-287 loops right over to the next exit.

I don't know how much traffic comes into Limon via Colorado Springs. It might not be enough to justify widening US-24 to 4 lanes there. However US-24 going East out of Colorado Springs most definitely needs to be 4-laned farther Northeast. At least to Peyton at the bare minimum or Calhan a few miles farther East.
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kphoger

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2019, 02:58:05 PM »

I don't know how much traffic comes into Limon via Colorado Springs. It might not be enough to justify widening US-24 to 4 lanes there.

The AADT low point is on the east side of Simla, at 2800 vehicles per day.
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captkirk_4

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2020, 09:13:42 AM »

Quote from: skluth
Limon exists at a moderately important crossroads. Historically, those cities have gotten bigger with improved transportation access. However, they also need something else for business to move there. Right now, it's too far from Denver to attract those transportation-related businesses so it's mostly a big truck stop town, especially for those vehicles using US 24 or US 287.

I think Limon would be an excellent start point for a diagonal Interstate directly connecting the Denver and Oklahoma City areas (similar to the way OKC & St Louis are connected by diagonal I-44). As I-70 goes East toward Limon it's already following a diagonal path toward OKC. US-287/40 continues that diagonal down to Kit Carson. Then the diagonal stops unfortunately. Most of the roads in the plains East of the Front Range are built on a N-S-E-W grid with very few diagonal routes.

If such a diagonal Interstate was built the existing US-287 exit from I-70 could be demolished and rebuilt as a directional Y interchange, maybe even taking advantage of that big odd gap in the I-70 median East of the existing US-287 exit. The construction could be done without really disrupting existing US-287 traffic since US-287 loops right over to the next exit.

I don't know how much traffic comes into Limon via Colorado Springs. It might not be enough to justify widening US-24 to 4 lanes there. However US-24 going East out of Colorado Springs most definitely needs to be 4-laned farther Northeast. At least to Peyton at the bare minimum or Calhan a few miles farther East.

The Interstate system is definitely not finished, but with the Wuhan Virus costing Trillions I think an infrastructure bill that could have built some needed diagonals and spurs is history. There definitely has to be better connection from the Colorado Springs Pueblo area to I-70 at Limon. An I-170 spur from Limon to I-25 around Fountain would be best, but at a minimum US-24 needs to be full limited access Freeway through Co. Spr. to past Falcon Peyton as that stretch really slowed me down with endless stoplights and suburban traffic. Really surprised at all the sprawl, development and subdivisions going up around Colorado Springs as Illinois is absolutely dead, no construction anywhere and I forgot what development looks like as I haven't seen any for 12 years.
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halork

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2020, 05:15:18 AM »

[Also, keep in mind I-70 was built through that area about 50 years ago.  It's possible the interchanges were intentionally overbuilt in anticipation of future growth (which so far hasn't really materialized).  But don't count Limon out just yet, because they are still the Hub City of the Plains!

All roads lead to Limon.

Control Cities at Denver freeway interchanges:

E470 North from I-25 North: Limon
E470 North from I-25 South: Limon
I-225 North from I-25 North: Limon
I-225 North from I-25 South: Limon
E470 South from I-76 West: Limon
I-270 East from I-25 South: Limon
I-270 East from US-36 West: Limon
I-270 East from I-76 East: Limon
I-270 East from I-76 West: Limon
E470 South from I-25 South: Limon
E470 South from I-25 North: Limon

Not to mention eastbound I-70, of course, which ACTUALLY GOES to Limon.
At least they also mention Aurora for I-225.
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mrsman

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2020, 08:24:47 AM »

[Also, keep in mind I-70 was built through that area about 50 years ago.  It's possible the interchanges were intentionally overbuilt in anticipation of future growth (which so far hasn't really materialized).  But don't count Limon out just yet, because they are still the Hub City of the Plains!

All roads lead to Limon.

Control Cities at Denver freeway interchanges:

E470 North from I-25 North: Limon
E470 North from I-25 South: Limon
I-225 North from I-25 North: Limon
I-225 North from I-25 South: Limon
E470 South from I-76 West: Limon
I-270 East from I-25 South: Limon
I-270 East from US-36 West: Limon
I-270 East from I-76 East: Limon
I-270 East from I-76 West: Limon
E470 South from I-25 South: Limon
E470 South from I-25 North: Limon

Not to mention eastbound I-70, of course, which ACTUALLY GOES to Limon.
At least they also mention Aurora for I-225.

This is not unusual or even inappropriate.  As Limon is the next control city on I-70 to the east, any road that leads directly to I-70 to the east can and (IMO should) have Limon as the control.  I-270 and I-225 both end at I-70, with most of the traffic (all of the traffic for 270's situation) leading onto I-70 east.  In a similar manner in the Los Angeles area, CA-170, I-405, and I-210 all have Sacramento controls for part of their route, because they all lead directly to I-5 north which does in fact go to Sacramento.  Other similar examples exist throughout the country.

For Beltways, like E470, there are two schools of thought.  Some would sign for the suburbs it actually goes through and some would sign for the control off of the arterial route that it leads to.  It seems like E470 is following the latter school of thought, which is common in the Southeast and Midwest.  Again, not unusual, but there are definitely two good alternative ways to sign controls for Beltways.

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halork

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2020, 05:00:44 AM »


This is not unusual or even inappropriate.  As Limon is the next control city on I-70 to the east, any road that leads directly to I-70 to the east can and (IMO should) have Limon as the control.  I-270 and I-225 both end at I-70, with most of the traffic (all of the traffic for 270's situation) leading onto I-70 east.  In a similar manner in the Los Angeles area, CA-170, I-405, and I-210 all have Sacramento controls for part of their route, because they all lead directly to I-5 north which does in fact go to Sacramento.  Other similar examples exist throughout the country.

For Beltways, like E470, there are two schools of thought.  Some would sign for the suburbs it actually goes through and some would sign for the control off of the arterial route that it leads to.  It seems like E470 is following the latter school of thought, which is common in the Southeast and Midwest.  Again, not unusual, but there are definitely two good alternative ways to sign controls for Beltways.


First, the one that annoys me the most: Approximately 0% of traffic on westbound I-76 at E470 is headed to eastbound I-70. US-85 uses Aurora and Brighton as control cities for E470, and that is what should be used for I-76. In fact, I would argue for those control cities for all of E470. 

As for your California examples, I-405 uses Long Beach and I-210 uses Pasadena until they pass through those cities. They only use Sacramento near the north end. CA-170 is contained entirely in the city of Los Angeles, so using Sacramento there makes sense. However, if they used Buttonwillow instead of Sacramento, that would be more analogous to the Denver situation.

Limon is an eastern Colorado cow pasture. The only reason it is used as a control "city" is the junctions of US-24 and US-40 there. CDOT should just use Kansas as a control; more people know where Kansas is than where Limon is. But of course, that would acknowledge Kansas exists, and we sure couldn't have that!
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Revive 755

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2020, 12:47:27 PM »

For Beltways, like E470, there are two schools of thought.  Some would sign for the suburbs it actually goes through and some would sign for the control off of the arterial route that it leads to.  It seems like E470 is following the latter school of thought, which is common in the Southeast and Midwest.  Again, not unusual, but there are definitely two good alternative ways to sign controls for Beltways.

There seems to be a third school of though:  No control cities at all, as used around at least Indianapolis and Columbus, OH.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2020, 02:35:12 PM »

For Beltways, like E470, there are two schools of thought.  Some would sign for the suburbs it actually goes through and some would sign for the control off of the arterial route that it leads to.  It seems like E470 is following the latter school of thought, which is common in the Southeast and Midwest.  Again, not unusual, but there are definitely two good alternative ways to sign controls for Beltways.

There seems to be a third school of though:  No control cities at all, as used around at least Indianapolis and Columbus, OH.

A fourth might be to use "Belt Route" or something similar as a control, as is often done with I-215 around Salt Lake City.

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2020, 06:02:30 PM »

For Beltways, like E470, there are two schools of thought.  Some would sign for the suburbs it actually goes through and some would sign for the control off of the arterial route that it leads to.  It seems like E470 is following the latter school of thought, which is common in the Southeast and Midwest.  Again, not unusual, but there are definitely two good alternative ways to sign controls for Beltways.

There seems to be a third school of though:  No control cities at all, as used around at least Indianapolis and Columbus, OH.

Columbus, Ohio has used control cities along I-270 for quite some time, using Cleveland, Wheeling, Cincinnati and Dayton (originally Indianapolis) along their highways. Now it does seem they are going away from that practice with some of their newer sign installs, but there are still plenty of signs using far flung control cities along 270. Now when they get rid of them all then you can put them in the same group as Indianapolis.
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Revive 755

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2020, 06:52:06 PM »

Columbus, Ohio has used control cities along I-270 for quite some time, using Cleveland, Wheeling, Cincinnati and Dayton (originally Indianapolis) along their highways. Now it does seem they are going away from that practice with some of their newer sign installs, but there are still plenty of signs using far flung control cities along 270. Now when they get rid of them all then you can put them in the same group as Indianapolis.

Based on Streetview, that day might not be far off:

None on WB I-70 (east side)
None on EB I-70 (east side)
None on EB US 33 (east side)
None on WB US 33 (east side)
One temporary sign (old sign being resused?) with Wheeling on NB I-71 (south side)
None on EB I-70 (west side)
None on EB US 33 (west side)
None on NB OH 315 (though there's a 'TO US 23 and I-71')
None on NB I-71 (north side)
None on SB I-71 (north side
None on WB OH 161
None on EB OH 161
Wheeling and Cleveland on WB US 62 (east side)
EB I-670 does not appear to have any, but since the area was under construction at the time those may not be the final signs
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2020, 04:20:41 PM »

So what is the answer to this question?
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kphoger

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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2020, 04:42:03 PM »

So what is the answer to this question?

Already answered.

the western interchange is the exit for US 24 west to Colorado Springs, as well as a lot of businesses in Limon, while the eastern interchange serves US 287 traffic going in a completely different direction ... and it's not very expensive to add ramps to make that a simple diamond interchange for a speedier connection between downtown Limon and I-70.

The road that's currently Business 70 existed long before the interstate did, and it was aligned that way so that it could have a grade-separated crossing of the railroad track at a decent speed. When I-70 was built, it was already going to cross the old road twice, and there wasn't any real reason not to build another interchange.
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Re: Why is there a redundant interchange on I-70 at Limon
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2020, 03:55:31 AM »

Also, keep in mind I-70 was built through that area about 50 years ago.

I suspect this is the real answer. Back then people didn't blanch every time the government bought a paperclip like they do now.
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