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Highways getting Truncated

Started by AcE_Wolf_287, March 30, 2020, 04:03:56 PM

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dvferyance

The only one I don't get is US 16 in Wisconsin and Minnesota. It has a lengthy state route segment long enough to retain it being a US highway.


TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: dvferyance on March 31, 2020, 12:48:38 PM
The only one I don't get is US 16 in Wisconsin and Minnesota. It has a lengthy state route segment long enough to retain it being a US highway.

Minnesota and South Dakota wanted US 16 gone, and pushed Wisconsin to get on board.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Flint1979

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on March 31, 2020, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 31, 2020, 07:30:42 AM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 30, 2020, 10:24:39 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 30, 2020, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 30, 2020, 09:12:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 30, 2020, 08:40:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 30, 2020, 08:16:56 PM


Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 30, 2020, 05:29:32 PM
That was much of the driving force of what got US 27 pushed out of Michigan (the long multiplex with I-69).

That and to ease confusion with US-127 which ended at I-69 where US-27 split going on the same freeway US-127 was on.

I think it makes sense but I still think US-27 and US-127 should have switched routes in Cincinnati.

Yes, but if MDOT had retained all that surface highway mileage I bet US 27 would still be around. US 92 for example functionally has been replaced by I-4 but the surface mileage of the former was retained.  To that end it makes no sense to renumber or dispose of US 92.  There are many of segments like that on the East Coast which becomes less common the further west you go.

Could you explain surface mileage, what i'm saying is why truncate the highway if thw surface road is still there and functioning for the public, yes it "technically" gets replaced BUT, its a good wa through towns,

for Ex, I Don't take I-77 down to Downtown Columbia, I US 21 because
1. US 21 is right off the road i am,
2. it directly goes through the town, unlike I-77,
3. Less Traffic

it still puzzles me that some US Routes were put onto Interstate Highways (Like US 40 on I-70) but then put back onto surface road, but other Routes (Like US 21) Wasn't
Usually they turn it over to local control so they don't have to maintain it anymore. It's no longer they through route but most of the time makes a good alternate route.

See, if the US Highway was built ontop of, I would Understand truncating the highway, but i guess the state deptarment doesn't want to deal with the Highway anymore, but even then if they turn it into s state route, you might as well keep the US highway.
US routes have more guidelines you have to follow where a state highway is up to the state to decide on.

I know the Interstates have documented standards to follow, but are you sure there are guidelines for US highways? Just from the US mileage I have witnessed myself, there is so much variability that I find that hard to believe. A lot of US Routes in West Virginia and Pennsylvania come to mind in terms of roadways that must not follow such regulations on account of their rapid descents, tight corners, etc. US 30 between Chambersburg and US 119 being a prime example.
I was basically answering his question regarding leaving a route a US highway vs making it into a state highway. IMO, it doesn't make sense to have a intrastate US highway when it should be a state highway. However some examples exist of course like US-92 and US-192 in Florida which being on a peninsula makes it hard to extend either one out of Florida. Interstates are like that too but I don't think they have very many guidelines they go by but were suppose to be at least 300 miles or travel in more than one state. Michigan has a great example of twisting that rule around as US-223 enters Ohio all while multiplexed with US-23. So really US-223 should simply become M-223 and the part that goes to Ohio should be deleted from that highway.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: hbelkins on March 31, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Regarding US 21, I'm not positive about Ohio, but in Virginia and West Virginia, all of the former route is state-maintained.

In Virginia, the route was concurrent with US 52 all the way to the state line and beyond into downtown Bluefield. US 52 has been routed onto I-77, but the old route is signed as VA 598 and WV 598.

In West Virginia, the route was concurrent with US 19 to Beckley. Until the New River Gorge bridge was finished and US 19 was routed on that highway, US 21 was signed on the completed portion of Corridor L, then along what is now WV 16 to US 60, then concurrent with US 60 to Charleston. The original truncation was on I-77 a few miles north of Charleston, at the WV 622 exit. North of Charleston, the segments that aren't co-signed with state primary routes (WV 622, WV 34) so the primary routes can end at the interstate are signed with standalone CR 21 markers (keeping in mind that WV's "county" routes are actually state-maintained secondary routes). At CR 21's northern end, the route is designated as WV 14, and as an unsigned extension of WV 31 across the river.

I know segments in Ohio are signed state highways, but I don't know if all of old US 21 is a signed state route, or if portions are under county/township maintenance.

It is weird that US 21 got truncated but US 11 is still alive and well.  I think they should not have truncated US 21.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 06, 2020, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 31, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Regarding US 21, I'm not positive about Ohio, but in Virginia and West Virginia, all of the former route is state-maintained.

In Virginia, the route was concurrent with US 52 all the way to the state line and beyond into downtown Bluefield. US 52 has been routed onto I-77, but the old route is signed as VA 598 and WV 598.

In West Virginia, the route was concurrent with US 19 to Beckley. Until the New River Gorge bridge was finished and US 19 was routed on that highway, US 21 was signed on the completed portion of Corridor L, then along what is now WV 16 to US 60, then concurrent with US 60 to Charleston. The original truncation was on I-77 a few miles north of Charleston, at the WV 622 exit. North of Charleston, the segments that aren't co-signed with state primary routes (WV 622, WV 34) so the primary routes can end at the interstate are signed with standalone CR 21 markers (keeping in mind that WV's "county" routes are actually state-maintained secondary routes). At CR 21's northern end, the route is designated as WV 14, and as an unsigned extension of WV 31 across the river.

I know segments in Ohio are signed state highways, but I don't know if all of old US 21 is a signed state route, or if portions are under county/township maintenance.

It is weird that US 21 got truncated but US 11 is still alive and well.  I think they should not have truncated US 21.

Frankly, Ohio didn't want US 21. Which is funny, because its over a 40-50 mile stretch from Byesville (south of Cambridge) to Dover/New Philadelphia that was relegated to county control. South of Byesville, we have Oh 821. (Including the 8 miles of US 250) North of Dover/New Philly we have Oh 21 (of course, I'm excluding the decertified section of US/Oh 21 in Cleveland).
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Scott5114

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on March 31, 2020, 11:02:30 AM
I know the Interstates have documented standards to follow, but are you sure there are guidelines for US highways? Just from the US mileage I have witnessed myself, there is so much variability that I find that hard to believe. A lot of US Routes in West Virginia and Pennsylvania come to mind in terms of roadways that must not follow such regulations on account of their rapid descents, tight corners, etc. US 30 between Chambersburg and US 119 being a prime example.

There are actually US route standards that have gotten progressively more stringent over time. However, since new US routes are rarely commissioned, basically the only time they come into play is during realignments or reconstructions. If a US route not meeting current standards is left in place and simply maintained without any changes for years (i.e. there is no need to consult AASHTO), then there is never anything to require an upgrade.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

18 wheel warrior

For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

kenarmy

One I really can't understand is US 113 being truncated to DE 1.. Is 1 that important that it can't handle a 20 mile overlap? 113 is supposed to be an alternate route for 13 anyway. And why get rid of the US route before a state route?
Just a reminder that US 6, 49, 50, and 98 are superior to your fave routes :)


EXTEND 206 SO IT CAN MEET ITS PARENT.

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 31, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
As far as I know there is no AASHTO guidance that dictates that particular body maintain a US Route.  To that end there some cities that do maintain US Route signage that I'm aware of but most tend to do it on a very sub par level to the State DOTs. 

And there are some, like in Vermont, where the state-maintained route ends at the city limits but the cities maintain and sign the in-city routings (Bennington is particularly good about this!). 

Avalanchez71

One truncation that does make sense is US 411.  It was formerly co signed all the way up to Bristol, TN.

Flint1979

I never understood why US-41 and US-141 are the way they are in the U.P. of Michigan.

Starting where US-41 and 141 split about 20 miles north of Green Bay and US-141 runs straight toward Iron Mountain with a concurrency with US-8 and later with US-2 as US-2 dips into Wisconsin for about 15 miles along with US-141 they split in Crystal Falls and 141 runs straight north again running concurrent with M-28 for a few miles just so it can end again at US-41.

US-41 has a very long (almost 60 miles) concurrency with M-28 west of Marquette, that would be eliminated if they switched 141 making it end in Marquette. US-41 would then run in a more north-south fashion rather than making that backwards C arc.

Then US-141 would end at M-28 in Harvey but let me guess it's just so a major US highway can go through Marquette which is the largest city in the Upper Peninsula and that really isn't saying much as Marquette has a population of around 20,000.


bing101

US-101 from the East LA Interchange to San Ysidro was truncated once I-5 was signed to take over that section in Southern California.

gr8daynegb

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 25, 2021, 01:21:13 PM
I never understood why US-41 and US-141 are the way they are in the U.P. of Michigan.

Starting where US-41 and 141 split about 20 miles north of Green Bay and US-141 runs straight toward Iron Mountain with a concurrency with US-8 and later with US-2 as US-2 dips into Wisconsin for about 15 miles along with US-141 they split in Crystal Falls and 141 runs straight north again running concurrent with M-28 for a few miles just so it can end again at US-41.

US-41 has a very long (almost 60 miles) concurrency with M-28 west of Marquette, that would be eliminated if they switched 141 making it end in Marquette. US-41 would then run in a more north-south fashion rather than making that backwards C arc.

Then US-141 would end at M-28 in Harvey but let me guess it's just so a major US highway can go through Marquette which is the largest city in the Upper Peninsula and that really isn't saying much as Marquette has a population of around 20,000.

And then on the Wisconsin side many wonder why 141 goes farther south than Abrams.  Although if 141 followed along County R to side of I-43 it would maybe justify a bit more having that designation and providing an alternative to the freeway more identifiable.
So Lone Star now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

AcE_Wolf_287

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on December 06, 2020, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 31, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Regarding US 21, I'm not positive about Ohio, but in Virginia and West Virginia, all of the former route is state-maintained.

In Virginia, the route was concurrent with US 52 all the way to the state line and beyond into downtown Bluefield. US 52 has been routed onto I-77, but the old route is signed as VA 598 and WV 598.

In West Virginia, the route was concurrent with US 19 to Beckley. Until the New River Gorge bridge was finished and US 19 was routed on that highway, US 21 was signed on the completed portion of Corridor L, then along what is now WV 16 to US 60, then concurrent with US 60 to Charleston. The original truncation was on I-77 a few miles north of Charleston, at the WV 622 exit. North of Charleston, the segments that aren't co-signed with state primary routes (WV 622, WV 34) so the primary routes can end at the interstate are signed with standalone CR 21 markers (keeping in mind that WV's "county" routes are actually state-maintained secondary routes). At CR 21's northern end, the route is designated as WV 14, and as an unsigned extension of WV 31 across the river.

I know segments in Ohio are signed state highways, but I don't know if all of old US 21 is a signed state route, or if portions are under county/township maintenance.

It is weird that US 21 got truncated but US 11 is still alive and well.  I think they should not have truncated US 21.

as someone whos a big fan of US 21, they should've atleast kept it up to Parkersburg, before its complete removal out of ohio, & WV, it was only 700 miles long which is short for a Main N-S US Route (US 1, US 11, US 31, US 41 etc...)

KeithE4Phx

Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.

US 60 suddenly becomes a really important detour if something happens on I-10 between Vicksburg and Tonopah.  It would be stupid replace it with something like AZ 74 (ironically the original designation) given it is still a quality highway will still get you to/from Phoenix.

KeithE4Phx

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.

US 60 suddenly becomes a really important detour if something happens on I-10 between Vicksburg and Tonopah.  It would be stupid replace it with something like AZ 74 (ironically the original designation) given it is still a quality highway will still get you to/from Phoenix.

That's certainly a good point, but I'm not advocating that it be completely decertified.  I'm saying that it's no longer necessary for US 60 west of Tempe to be a US highway, once it's no longer required as part of a Phoenix-to-Las Vegas route, and that would only be the I-17-to-Wickenburg segment (Grand Ave./Thomas Rd.) anyway. 

Whether the road west of Wickenburg is called AZ 60, AZ 74, or it remains US 60 won't diminish the purpose of that section of highway.  ADOT still would be maintaining it.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 11:31:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.

US 60 suddenly becomes a really important detour if something happens on I-10 between Vicksburg and Tonopah.  It would be stupid replace it with something like AZ 74 (ironically the original designation) given it is still a quality highway will still get you to/from Phoenix.

That's certainly a good point, but I'm not advocating that it be completely decertified.  I'm saying that it's no longer necessary for US 60 west of Tempe to be a US highway, once it's no longer required as part of a Phoenix-to-Las Vegas route, and that would only be the I-17-to-Wickenburg segment (Grand Ave./Thomas Rd.) anyway. 

Whether the road west of Wickenburg is called AZ 60, AZ 74, or it remains US 60 won't diminish the purpose of that section of highway.  ADOT still would be maintaining it.

But how is that any different than when US 89 and US 89A became AZ 89 and AZ 89A south of Flagstaff?  Those corridors (arguably only AZ 89) were the logical alternate to I-17 if there was a problem before AZ 87 the was expanded to an expressway to Payson.  I'd just hate to see some of that duplication get lost with US 60 given I've experienced having to use the corridor myself as a necessary I-10 alternate. 

Taking it one step further stepping into fictional territory I would extend US 60 all the way to San Gorgonio Pass via CA 62.  When I-10 in California was having wash out issues around Desert Center CA 62 was the obvious alternate.  But, CA 62 was hardly advertised as a detour for reasons unknown.  My theory was that a state highway didn't carry the same confidence level in the eyes of general public than a US Route or Interstate would. 

SkyPesos

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:38:53 PM
My theory was that a state highway didn't carry the same confidence level in the eyes of general public than a US Route or Interstate would.
Not sure how things are out west, but here in the Midwest, IN 63 pretty much replaced parallel US 41 for through travel, and OH 32 replaced US 50, as the state routes are both 4 lane, while the US route is 2 lane.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: SkyPesos on August 24, 2021, 11:48:53 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:38:53 PM
My theory was that a state highway didn't carry the same confidence level in the eyes of general public than a US Route or Interstate would.
Not sure how things are out west, but here in the Midwest, IN 63 pretty much replaced parallel US 41 for through travel, and OH 32 replaced US 50, as the state routes are both 4 lane, while the US route is 2 lane.

With Arizona AZ 87 and AZ 260 largely replaced the utility of US 60 between Mesa-Show Low.  The AZ 87-AZ 260 has had lots of four lane expansions whereas US 60 becomes a two lane highway at Superior.  Essentially phenomenon exists out west as well.

US 60 and I-10 from Phoenix west to the vicinity of Quartzsite have a mountain range separating them, the former isn't exactly a frontage road.  There are no frontage facilities available on I-10 from Quartzsite east to Tonopah.  So if there is a problem out in that open desert on I-10 you're pretty much boned unless you head for US 60. 

Flint1979

Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 30, 2020, 04:03:56 PM
So i've Never realized why highways in the East Get Truncated? in the West they build on top of the original route so i understand, but in the east i don't Get it? Like US 21, in west Virginia and Ohio, I-77 didn't get built ontop of US 21's Original route, all the roads it was on is still here to this day, or US 25, I-75 was never built ontop the original route or infact ANY US Route in Michigan.

I Know they transfer the US Route onto the highway but US 40 in Ohio got transferred back onto its original route, but US 21/US 25/US 27 never did (if it was on the highway)
Yes it was, I-75 was built over US-23. A bypass of Saginaw was built in the early 50's before I-75 was built and I-75 was built over that bypass. In addition when the Mackinac Bridge opened US-23, US-27 and US-31 were all extended to the foot of the bridge I-75 took over that highway too.

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:38:53 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 11:31:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.

US 60 suddenly becomes a really important detour if something happens on I-10 between Vicksburg and Tonopah.  It would be stupid replace it with something like AZ 74 (ironically the original designation) given it is still a quality highway will still get you to/from Phoenix.

That's certainly a good point, but I'm not advocating that it be completely decertified.  I'm saying that it's no longer necessary for US 60 west of Tempe to be a US highway, once it's no longer required as part of a Phoenix-to-Las Vegas route, and that would only be the I-17-to-Wickenburg segment (Grand Ave./Thomas Rd.) anyway. 

Whether the road west of Wickenburg is called AZ 60, AZ 74, or it remains US 60 won't diminish the purpose of that section of highway.  ADOT still would be maintaining it.

But how is that any different than when US 89 and US 89A became AZ 89 and AZ 89A south of Flagstaff?  Those corridors (arguably only AZ 89) were the logical alternate to I-17 if there was a problem before AZ 87 the was expanded to an expressway to Payson.  I'd just hate to see some of that duplication get lost with US 60 given I've experienced having to use the corridor myself as a necessary I-10 alternate. 

Taking it one step further stepping into fictional territory I would extend US 60 all the way to San Gorgonio Pass via CA 62.  When I-10 in California was having wash out issues around Desert Center CA 62 was the obvious alternate.  But, CA 62 was hardly advertised as a detour for reasons unknown.  My theory was that a state highway didn't carry the same confidence level in the eyes of general public than a US Route or Interstate would. 

When the I-10 washouts made the news up here in northern CA, the local TV newscast I normally watch (CBS affiliate) cited a detour via CA 86 and I-8 for Phoenix-bound drivers.  But as per TV newscasts, there was a notable lack of detail (like CA 78 for those heading to the Blythe area), just a brief description of the suggested alternate.  Given the relative desolation of CA 62 past 29 Palms, it would probably be considered, despite the additional mileage, more reasonable for the average driver to stay on a mostly divided highway than brave the open desert, hence the broadcast suggestion.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sparker on August 25, 2021, 05:51:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:38:53 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 11:31:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.

US 60 suddenly becomes a really important detour if something happens on I-10 between Vicksburg and Tonopah.  It would be stupid replace it with something like AZ 74 (ironically the original designation) given it is still a quality highway will still get you to/from Phoenix.

That's certainly a good point, but I'm not advocating that it be completely decertified.  I'm saying that it's no longer necessary for US 60 west of Tempe to be a US highway, once it's no longer required as part of a Phoenix-to-Las Vegas route, and that would only be the I-17-to-Wickenburg segment (Grand Ave./Thomas Rd.) anyway. 

Whether the road west of Wickenburg is called AZ 60, AZ 74, or it remains US 60 won't diminish the purpose of that section of highway.  ADOT still would be maintaining it.

But how is that any different than when US 89 and US 89A became AZ 89 and AZ 89A south of Flagstaff?  Those corridors (arguably only AZ 89) were the logical alternate to I-17 if there was a problem before AZ 87 the was expanded to an expressway to Payson.  I'd just hate to see some of that duplication get lost with US 60 given I've experienced having to use the corridor myself as a necessary I-10 alternate. 

Taking it one step further stepping into fictional territory I would extend US 60 all the way to San Gorgonio Pass via CA 62.  When I-10 in California was having wash out issues around Desert Center CA 62 was the obvious alternate.  But, CA 62 was hardly advertised as a detour for reasons unknown.  My theory was that a state highway didn't carry the same confidence level in the eyes of general public than a US Route or Interstate would. 

When the I-10 washouts made the news up here in northern CA, the local TV newscast I normally watch (CBS affiliate) cited a detour via CA 86 and I-8 for Phoenix-bound drivers.  But as per TV newscasts, there was a notable lack of detail (like CA 78 for those heading to the Blythe area), just a brief description of the suggested alternate.  Given the relative desolation of CA 62 past 29 Palms, it would probably be considered, despite the additional mileage, more reasonable for the average driver to stay on a mostly divided highway than brave the open desert, hence the broadcast suggestion.

Consider for a moment though how much traffic CA 62 gets between CA 177 and US 95.  Yes the corridor is lightly traveled from Amboy Road east to CA 177 but there certainly was nothing physically challenging about (relatively straight and signed at 65 MPH).  The biggest hazard by far would be the 100 miles of no services, but isn't too far ahead of what one would experience on I-10.

Bitmapped

Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on August 24, 2021, 08:34:49 PM
as someone whos a big fan of US 21, they should've atleast kept it up to Parkersburg, before its complete removal out of ohio, & WV, it was only 700 miles long which is short for a Main N-S US Route (US 1, US 11, US 31, US 41 etc...)

Why? All of the route between Wytheville and Charleston was multiplexed with other routes, and north of Charleston, I-77's alignment is far superior. Having US 21 that whole distance would have just been unnecessary clutter.

KeithE4Phx

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:38:53 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 11:31:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 09:39:21 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 24, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
Quote from: 18 wheel warrior on December 07, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
For a west coast truncation, US-60, which originally went all the way to Los Angeles, was truncated in 1972 after I-10 was completed. Sections the old 60 that aren't part of I-10 is was the downgraded to CA-60. Now, US-60 ends at I-10 near Brenda AZ.

All of US 60 from Globe AZ to LA was co-signed with US 70 until 70 was truncated at Globe in 1974.

I believe the only reason that US 60 between Tempe and Brenda is still US 60 is because of Grand Ave being the main highway between Phoenix and Wickenburg.  West of Wickenburg, it's pretty much a local road.  Once I-11 is built, I can see US 60 ending at I-10 in Tempe, with the concurrencies with I-10 and I-17 disappearing.  The I-17-to-Brenda section would then be AZ 60.

US 60 suddenly becomes a really important detour if something happens on I-10 between Vicksburg and Tonopah.  It would be stupid replace it with something like AZ 74 (ironically the original designation) given it is still a quality highway will still get you to/from Phoenix.

That's certainly a good point, but I'm not advocating that it be completely decertified.  I'm saying that it's no longer necessary for US 60 west of Tempe to be a US highway, once it's no longer required as part of a Phoenix-to-Las Vegas route, and that would only be the I-17-to-Wickenburg segment (Grand Ave./Thomas Rd.) anyway. 

Whether the road west of Wickenburg is called AZ 60, AZ 74, or it remains US 60 won't diminish the purpose of that section of highway.  ADOT still would be maintaining it.

But how is that any different than when US 89 and US 89A became AZ 89 and AZ 89A south of Flagstaff?  Those corridors (arguably only AZ 89) were the logical alternate to I-17 if there was a problem before AZ 87 the was expanded to an expressway to Payson.  I'd just hate to see some of that duplication get lost with US 60 given I've experienced having to use the corridor myself as a necessary I-10 alternate. 

It isn't, and that's my point.  Really, Arizona should do what California did in 1964, and decertify most, if not all of its US highways, changing them to identically-numbered state highways if possible.  There's little need for them anymore.  Interstates now handle traffic between the states and to the Mexican border for the most part, and have for decades.  US 93 (for now) and US 191 can be considered exceptions, but I can't think of any others.

QuoteTaking it one step further stepping into fictional territory I would extend US 60 all the way to San Gorgonio Pass via CA 62.  When I-10 in California was having wash out issues around Desert Center CA 62 was the obvious alternate.  But, CA 62 was hardly advertised as a detour for reasons unknown.  My theory was that a state highway didn't carry the same confidence level in the eyes of general public than a US Route or Interstate would. 

California AFAIK has no intention of adding any new US highways.
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