AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules to ensure post quality. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline  (Read 15172 times)

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 21739
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 10:30:36 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #125 on: December 03, 2020, 10:16:48 AM »

You realize that "right half of the roadway" means the right side of the entire road consisting of two lanes, not the right of two lanes when the road has 4(2+2)? In other words, it is "don't drive head-on into oncoming traffic", not "keep right" 

I honestly suspect he thought that code meant "drive on the right fourth of the roadway.   :pan:

In summary, Illinois law states that...

1:  On any undivided road, the general rule is that traffic shall not drive on the left half, except to pass or in the event of extenuating circumstances (5/11-701(a)1,2).

2:  The above does not apply on one-way roadways (5/11-701(a)4).  By the definition of "roadway" found in 5/1-179, each half of a divided highway counts as an individual "roadway", and therefore the general keep-right rule does not apply to lane use on a divided highway.

3:  On a two-lane, two-way roadway, it is also permitted to drive on the left half when preparing to turn left (5/11-701(c)).

4:  On a freeway (Interstate or other fully controlled-access highway), non-police traffic shall not use the left lane, except to pass, or if traffic is sufficiently heavy to make it impractical not to, or if preparing to exit on the left, or in the event of extenuating circumstances (5/11-701(d,e)).  This does not prohibit driving in the middle lanes of a freeway with three or more lanes in each direction—just the leftmost lane.

5:  Driving faster than the speed limit is prohibited (5/11-601(b)).  This means that it is required by law to drive slower than the speed limit.  (OK, so it's also technically allowed to drive at exactly the speed limit.)

6:  Driving slowly enough to impede or block traffic is prohibited, except as a matter of safety or direction by law enforcement (5/11-606(a)).  This applies to all lanes of traffic.

So yeah, it is legally required to driver slower than the speed limit, no matter what lane you're in.  And left lane use is only restricted on freeways.



lets face it...one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.

Another reason collisions happen is that people expect other drivers to abide by rules of the road that don't even exist as rules.

Another reason collisions happen is that people drive in such a way that does not allow for other drivers to deviate from the law or from generally accepted practice.

Another reason collisions happen is that people incite road rage by blaring their horn at the slightest error.

Another reason collisions happen is that people are fallible human beings who occasionally make poor choices, and other drivers do not include that fact in their worldview when driving.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 10:58:32 AM by kphoger »
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. Dick
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Crash_It

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 441
  • Location: Waukegan IL
  • Last Login: Today at 04:31:33 AM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #126 on: December 03, 2020, 10:23:50 AM »

Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois

Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.

As I and other posters have mentioned before, I’ve seen far worse.

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

(625 ILCS 5/11‑606) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑606)
Sec. 11‑606. Minimum speed regulation.

(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.


11-701.  Drive on right side of roadway--Exceptions.

(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:

(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
You realize that "right half of the roadway" means the right side of the entire road consisting of two lanes, not the right of two lanes when the road has 4(2+2)? In other words, it is "don't drive head-on into oncoming traffic", not "keep right"

it means 2 lanes in each of the 2 ways, hence the words "preparing for"
Logged

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 21739
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 10:30:36 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #127 on: December 03, 2020, 10:55:57 AM »

it means 2 lanes in each of the 2 ways, hence the words "preparing for"

No it doesn't.  It means a road that has two lanes and which accommodates two-way traffic.  It is legal to drive on the left half in order to slow down for a left turn, so long as there's no oncoming traffic or visibility issues.  In fact, doing so is very common practice in rural areas.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. Dick
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9999
  • An ode to the road bestowed

  • Age: 22
  • Location: Monroe County, NY
  • Last Login: May 11, 2022, 10:43:49 AM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #128 on: December 03, 2020, 11:18:15 AM »

...  It is legal to drive on the left half in order to slow down for a left turn, so long as there's no oncoming traffic or visibility issues.  In fact, doing so is very common practice in rural areas.

This also has a very important safety advantage that often goes unsung: it prevents people from pulling out to pass you while you're preparing to turn left.
Logged
On April 25, 2022, I became the 20th user in forum history to Like the Forum Way, Way Too Much. And then I found that there's another way...
__ _______ ___ __ _______ _____

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 21739
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 10:30:36 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #129 on: December 03, 2020, 12:08:10 PM »

https://fb.watch/27CoJTuXkL/

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

I think I'm going to have to spell this out even more precisely.

Previously, I have already demonstrated that his driving below the speed limit was required by law.  It is the legal requirment upon every driver.  Perhaps he was driving slowly enough to have been impeding traffic, but that would be a judgment call on the part of a police officer—not one that can be satisfactorily made by watching a video on Facebook.

Moving on to the other half of your argument, then, I have bolded the pertinent phrases below in order to show that his being in the left lane has no legal bearing on the matter whatsoever. 



Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-179
Roadway.

That portion of a highway improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular travel, exclusive of the berm or shoulder. In the event a highway includes two or more separate roadways the term "roadway" as used herein shall refer to any such roadway separately but not to all such roadways collectively.

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-136
Laned roadway.

A roadway which is divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for vehicular traffic.

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-126
Highway.

The entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel or located on public school property.

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-112
Controlled Access Highway.

Every highway, street or roadway in respect to which owners or occupants of abutting lands and other persons have no legal right of access to or from the same except at such points only and in such manner as may be determined by the public authority having jurisdiction over such highway, street or roadway.

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-123.5
Freeway.

A highway or street especially designed for through traffic and to, from, or over which owners of or persons having an interest in abutting land or other persons have no right or easement or only a limited right or easement of access, crossing, light, air, or view by reason of the fact that the property abuts upon the highway or street or for any other reason.

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/1-207
Traffic.

Pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, vehicles, streetcars and other conveyances either singly or together while using any highway for purposes of travel.

Quote from: 625 ILCS 5/11-701
Drive on right side of roadway - exceptions.

(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(c) Upon any roadway having 4 or more lanes for moving traffic and providing for 2-way movement of traffic, no vehicle shall be driven to the left of the center line of the roadway, except when authorized by official traffic-control devices designating certain lanes to the left side of the center of the roadway for use by traffic not otherwise permitted to use such lanes, or except as permitted under Subsection (a) 2. However, this Subsection shall not be construed as prohibiting the crossing of the center line in making a left turn into or from an alley, private road or driveway.

(d) Upon an Interstate highway or fully access controlled freeway, a vehicle may not be driven in the left lane, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle.

So here's the evaluation:



5/11-701(b) specifically applies on any "2 lane roadway".

By definition, a "roadway" is the entire width from edge line to edge line, not counting any shoulder(s).

By definition, it is a "laned roadway" if it has clearly marked lanes for vehicular traffic.

The definition of "traffic" is not restricted to any one direction of movement, but refers in general to those conveyances using the roadway for travel.

Between edge line and edge line (i.e., within the roadway), the road you were on in that video does provide for the two-way movement of vehicular traffic.  However, it has more than two lanes clearly marked for said traffic.  Therefore, 5/11-701(b) does not apply on that road.

Between edge line and edge line (i.e., within the roadway), the road you were on in that video has four or more lanes clearly marked for traffic.  Therefore, 5/11-701(c) does apply on that road.  The requirement set forth therein is that no vehicle may be driven to the left of the center line of the roadway.  Remember the definition of "roadway"?  It means the entire width from edge line to edge line.  This law prohibits drivers from driving on the wrong side of a multi-lane road.  It does not prohibit driving in any particular lane on the correct side of the road.

The road you were on in that video allows ample "legal right of access" and "crossing" at various and sundry points along its length.  I could clearly see driveways, intersections, and the like.  Therefore, 625 ILCS 5/11-701(d) does not apply on that road.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. Dick
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 14178
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 06:10:08 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #130 on: December 03, 2020, 12:47:53 PM »

^^^^

One addition to what kphoger said: If 5/11-701(b) and (c) prohibited driving in the left lane except for passing, then 5/11-701(d) would be superfluous. It's a well-established canon of statutory construction that provisions are not deemed to be superfluous, and are to be construed together with other provisions whenever possible, unless doing so would plainly produce an absurd result. Here, reading the provisions together in the way kphoger has done, and as further amplified by my comment, does not produce an absurd result.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kkt

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6194
  • Location: Seattle, Washington
  • Last Login: Today at 01:55:43 AM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #131 on: December 07, 2020, 12:08:16 AM »

We dream about being able to go 55 on the freeway during rush hour.
Logged

jeffandnicole

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13221
  • Age: 47
  • Location: South Jersey
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 10:23:15 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #132 on: December 07, 2020, 08:34:34 AM »

When it comes to slow driving, he's had a habit of showing a very specific portion of the incident...usually the moment he passes and/or honks his horn. Even though he could show a minute or so...or even 30 seconds...of the supposedly slow driver driving slowly, he never does, so we're left with his word vs actual video, which is obviously has.

When he approached the McDonald's drive thru and honked because the guy was pulling away looking at his order, driving slowly for all of about 1.5 seconds, I'd surmise that there isn't any significant slow driving going on on the roadways either.
Logged

paulthemapguy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6149
  • nobody asked me

  • Age: 32
  • Location: Illinois
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 10:32:24 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #133 on: December 07, 2020, 03:34:53 PM »

In general, I've gotten less touchy about people's driving this year, because a lot of people are distracted by increased troubles caused by these trying times.  People are generally more on-edge.  Though there's never an excuse for behavior that might get somebody seriously injured or killed.
Logged
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My Shield Gallery, Sorted https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
Source Photos https://flic.kr/s/aHskFU42pF
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 345/424. Only 79 route markers remain!

jakeroot

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 14677
  • Transportation Design

  • Age: 26
  • Location: Renton, WA / Vancouver, BC
  • Last Login: Today at 01:55:12 AM
    • Flickr
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #134 on: December 08, 2020, 03:25:43 PM »

When it comes to slow driving, he's had a habit of showing a very specific portion of the incident...usually the moment he passes and/or honks his horn. Even though he could show a minute or so...or even 30 seconds...of the supposedly slow driver driving slowly, he never does, so we're left with his word vs actual video, which is obviously has.

When he approached the McDonald's drive thru and honked because the guy was pulling away looking at his order, driving slowly for all of about 1.5 seconds, I'd surmise that there isn't any significant slow driving going on on the roadways either.

In his defense, these videos are usually meant to be compilations where each clip is only about 60 seconds at most.

But then, in our defense, not having the whole clip makes it very hard to discern who was truly to blame, and can easily disguise whatever blame the driver may have had.
Logged
Check out my Flickr | Add me on Facebook!

jeffandnicole

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13221
  • Age: 47
  • Location: South Jersey
  • Last Login: May 17, 2022, 10:23:15 PM
Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #135 on: December 08, 2020, 09:53:45 PM »

When it comes to slow driving, he's had a habit of showing a very specific portion of the incident...usually the moment he passes and/or honks his horn. Even though he could show a minute or so...or even 30 seconds...of the supposedly slow driver driving slowly, he never does, so we're left with his word vs actual video, which is obviously has.

When he approached the McDonald's drive thru and honked because the guy was pulling away looking at his order, driving slowly for all of about 1.5 seconds, I'd surmise that there isn't any significant slow driving going on on the roadways either.

In his defense, these videos are usually meant to be compilations where each clip is only about 60 seconds at most.

But then, in our defense, not having the whole clip makes it very hard to discern who was truly to blame, and can easily disguise whatever blame the driver may have had.

He's had short clips when someone runs a red light or the issue is obvious. He's had longer clips when he wants to show the entire story of other drivers doing something stupid.

But in instances where he claims the other driver has driven slowly for a while, or he's hit numerous red lights, he *claims* the other driver is doing something stupid. He doesn't show it, but rather narrates his version. He could easily double or triple speed the video to show him constantly getting stuck at red lights or the slowness of the other driver without taking too much time on his videos. He doesn't.

Remember the video where he was passed by the other driver, and then he drives thru the red light behind that other driver? That he showed nearly everything to back up his side of the story.

It's an obvious omission when he's claiming he's being stopped at numerous red lights even though he would have video to prove it, leading to the fact he probably really isn't getting stopped at red lights due to slow driving.

Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.