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Author Topic: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline  (Read 15329 times)

kphoger

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2020, 01:58:46 PM »

That's also not a residential street otherwise it wouldn't be striped.

That's a non-sequitir.  Here, for example, is a residential street with a center stripe in Chicago.  See all those residences along the sides of the streetHere's another one.

There was no room to go around the caravan

The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.

And how is a driver running a stop sign out onto a road with oil on it  (was being resurfaced) on a rainy day in a 45 Zone a minor infraction? I certainly would've hit him if I hadn't passed.

I never said it was a minor infraction.  What I said was that "many of those clips were ... minor infractions".  I also said that "a few were noteworthy, but most of them weren't".  I didn't say zero were major or noteworthy.

There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.

1.  I didn't deny that there was room to complete the pass.  My "whopping one car length" comment was intended to mean that, if the light had turned red before you reached it, then the two of you would have ended up only one car length apart (less, actually) at the stoplight.  You lucked out that the light stayed green for you but not for him.  The odds were against you in that.

2.  The potential advantage to you had a less-than-stunning probability of actually coming to pass (pun intended).  You ended up being lucky enough to gain a minute or two during your drive, but you pissed off another driver in the process.  That is how road rage happens.  Part of defensive driving is choosing not to do something that's likely to make other drivers mad at you.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 02:01:21 PM by kphoger »
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2020, 02:12:52 PM »

There was no room to go around the caravan

The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.

It does bother me how few people actually know the dimensions of their car. For example, that the average car is around 6.5 feet wide, 3.5 feet narrower than the narrowest lane most of us see on a regular basis. You know what I do when someone straddles my lane? Other than watching them, as I would every car, nothing. They are infringing on "my lane" but not my actual path of travel.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2020, 02:45:08 PM »

You have no idea how many drivers will get angry at you just got being passed.

Yeah...no one here ever drives so we don't know how the real world works. [/sarcasm]  :rolleyes:

There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.
[

So...here's the intersection you went thru just before you passed that vehicle: 4154 N Pulaski Rd, Chicago, IL 60641: https://goo.gl/maps/EQyVFCoszKDyAbZg6  You said you were stuck behind this person hitting red lights for the past 1/2 mile.  Based on what I see, there were 4 traffic lights at most in that half-mile span, including the one you went thru that was green.  So at most, you hit 3 traffic lights. 

I, and I'm sure many others, have dash cams, so we know how they work.  In the 3 years I've had them installed on my 2 vehicles, I've probably saved about 4 videos of people driving like assholes, and they were incidents way beyond someone not using a turn signal.  Of those 4, I may have watched 1 or 2.  The others, by the time I got home, weren't really that big of a deal and I never watched them again.
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kalvado

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2020, 03:33:17 PM »

There was no room to go around the caravan

The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.

It does bother me how few people actually know the dimensions of their car. For example, that the average car is around 6.5 feet wide, 3.5 feet narrower than the narrowest lane most of us see on a regular basis. You know what I do when someone straddles my lane? Other than watching them, as I would every car, nothing. They are infringing on "my lane" but not my actual path of travel.
It is often not about just taking that space - it is about lack of control, which may take them another 3-4 - or maybe 10 feet off the course.
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Crash_It

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2020, 11:22:07 PM »

That's also not a residential street otherwise it wouldn't be striped.

That's a non-sequitir.  Here, for example, is a residential street with a center stripe in Chicago.  See all those residences along the sides of the streetHere's another one.

Those are mixed residential streets meaning that they traverse neighborhoods and commercial areas as well. Streets that are heavily residential are usually posted at 25mph or less in Chicago.
Quote

There was no room to go around the caravan

The fact that you went around him suggests otherwise.

 yeah, after he scooted over ever so slightly. The fact that it even happened to begin with is a very stupid driving move. No experienced or half decent driver would ever do a move like that.

Quote

There was plenty of room in front of him to complete the pass (at least 3 car lengths). The advantage I gained is that I don't have to be subjected to his slow driving anymore and possibly getting more red lights.

1.  I didn't deny that there was room to complete the pass.  My "whopping one car length" comment was intended to mean that, if the light had turned red before you reached it, then the two of you would have ended up only one car length apart (less, actually) at the stoplight.  You lucked out that the light stayed green for you but not for him.  The odds were against you in that.

2.  The potential advantage to you had a less-than-stunning probability of actually coming to pass (pun intended).  You ended up being lucky enough to gain a minute or two during your drive, but you pissed off another driver in the process.  That is how road rage happens.  Part of defensive driving is choosing not to do something that's likely to make other drivers mad at you.

If a driver is getting angry at another for passing him because of his slow (under the limit) driving then he/she probably shouldn't drive. If I ever find myself under the limit for whatever reason (which is almost never especially in a 30mph zone) and a driver wanted to go the limit, I would move over and let them pass.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 11:24:39 PM by Crash_It »
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jakeroot

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2020, 01:22:55 AM »

If a driver is getting angry at another for passing him because of his slow (under the limit) driving then he/she probably shouldn't drive.

There are way too many of those types of drivers to use that as an excuse. It's best to just avoid instigating others simply to save a few moments.
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2020, 08:26:12 AM »

If a driver is getting angry at another for passing him because of his slow (under the limit) driving then he/she probably shouldn't drive.

There are way too many of those types of drivers to use that as an excuse. It's best to just avoid instigating others simply to save a few moments.

Yeah, probably best to avoid driving like that in a place like Texas...where there’s a decent chance the people you’re pissing off are going to have guns. Road rage can get ugly fast.

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2020, 08:31:52 AM »

If you're going to have hang-ups about the way other people drive, maybe it's best to just avoid big cities or perhaps just abstaining from driving altogether.

Nobody's perfect, people either make mistakes or just keep doing wrong until they learn their lesson the hard way.
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2020, 02:54:34 PM »

Yeah, probably best to avoid driving like that in a place like Texas...where there’s a decent chance the people you’re pissing off are going to have guns. Road rage can get ugly fast.
Sure does.  It happened in Detroit this week.  Best to lay off the horn.
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jakeroot

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2020, 04:27:05 PM »

Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.

For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.

Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).
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kphoger

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2020, 01:31:57 PM »

Let me put it this way, bud:

The things highlighted by your video are, by and large, fairly common occurrences on the road.  As such, you should stop thinking of them as "bad driving" and start thinking of them as "normal driving".

Should drivers do those things?  No, in most cases not.
Are those drivers breaking the law?  Yes, in many cases they are.

But...

Should a driver expect to witness those things?  Yes, he absolutely should.  They a normal part of everyday life on the road.  Get used to it, get over it, get off your high horse, get off the horn.



Plus, I don't see any reason to believe that the skill level of the driving public used to be better than it is now.  When I was growing up, 25 years ago, I frequently saw people running stop signs, driving 10 mph down residential streets, failing to signal for turns, not keeping right on the Interstate, all sorts of things.  If anything, the frequency with which I've witnessed such things has diminished rather than increased.
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kkt

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2020, 06:15:22 PM »

Let me put it this way, bud:

The things highlighted by your video are, by and large, fairly common occurrences on the road.  As such, you should stop thinking of them as "bad driving" and start thinking of them as "normal driving".

Should drivers do those things?  No, in most cases not.
Are those drivers breaking the law?  Yes, in many cases they are.

But...

Should a driver expect to witness those things?  Yes, he absolutely should.  They a normal part of everyday life on the road.  Get used to it, get over it, get off your high horse, get off the horn.



Plus, I don't see any reason to believe that the skill level of the driving public used to be better than it is now.  When I was growing up, 25 years ago, I frequently saw people running stop signs, driving 10 mph down residential streets, failing to signal for turns, not keeping right on the Interstate, all sorts of things.  If anything, the frequency with which I've witnessed such things has diminished rather than increased.

Yes.  Try to have a bit of a thick skin and remember what really matters in life, that is NOT 50-50 chance of saving one red light.

I haven't collected videos, but my impression is that driving skill has declined with the introduction of cell phones. Some people are just unable to put them down and are paying only half of their attention to their driving.  Red lights, green lights, pedestrians, a car pulling out from a driveway, all not seen because the driver has only enough attention to spare for what's directly in front of them, if that.

Driving very slowly down a street usually has a reason for it, you're just not aware of it.  Looking for an address?  Looking for a lost dog?  Bicycle in front of them that you can't see?
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Crash_It

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2020, 09:08:32 AM »

Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.

For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.

Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).

Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign
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Crash_It

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2020, 09:11:13 AM »

Fresh video just released

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2020, 09:46:36 AM »

I blame this all on:

-Nanny features in modern vehicles; lane departure alert, automatic braking, bling spot monitoring, etc.
-Federal standards for roof integrity that have necessitated smaller windows and huge A-pillars.
-A lack of police departments willing to enforce motor vehicle laws
-Distracting technology in the cabin. It's a car; I just want to drive it.
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kkt

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2020, 11:45:18 AM »

I blame this all on:

-Nanny features in modern vehicles; lane departure alert, automatic braking, bling spot monitoring, etc.
-Federal standards for roof integrity that have necessitated smaller windows and huge A-pillars.
-A lack of police departments willing to enforce motor vehicle laws
-Distracting technology in the cabin. It's a car; I just want to drive it.

Yes.  Including in distracting technology is touch screen controls for audio and other accessories.  The touch screen, at least in mine, is really fussy and one hand and my eyes have to be away from driving for 3-4 seconds.  It really requires pulling over to change the radio station safely, but the temptation to do it while driving is strong.  It's not a very good design, the driver should be able to change the radio by feel alone.
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2020, 11:59:53 AM »

I blame this all on:

-Nanny features in modern vehicles; lane departure alert, automatic braking, bling spot monitoring, etc.
-Federal standards for roof integrity that have necessitated smaller windows and huge A-pillars.
-A lack of police departments willing to enforce motor vehicle laws
-Distracting technology in the cabin. It's a car; I just want to drive it.

Yes.  Including in distracting technology is touch screen controls for audio and other accessories.  The touch screen, at least in mine, is really fussy and one hand and my eyes have to be away from driving for 3-4 seconds.  It really requires pulling over to change the radio station safely, but the temptation to do it while driving is strong.  It's not a very good design, the driver should be able to change the radio by feel alone.
I am pretty sure things are better today than what they were before. I have steering wheel control buttons for the player, and I believe that is a pretty standard feature these days. Comparing that with the old days - my personal best back then was pulling over on an interstate to change a CD....
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jakeroot

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2020, 12:05:14 PM »

It's a car

Actually, it's an appliance for 97% of drivers.
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jakeroot

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2020, 12:06:29 PM »

Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.

For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.

Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).

Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign

I honk if people don't turn on red (if that sign does not exist). But very short horns to not get my ass whooped. Sometimes people need a little push.

Honking for stopping at a stop sign is, in the best use of the word, a bit confusing.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 03:10:44 PM by jakeroot »
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2020, 12:25:23 PM »

Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.

For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.

Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).

Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign

I honk if people don't turn on red. But very short horns to not get my ass whooped. Sometimes people need a little push.

Honking for stopping at a stop sign is, in the best use of the word, a bit confusing.

But do you honk at people who don't turn on red when there's a no turn on red sign? That's what the prior comment mentions.
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jakeroot

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2020, 03:11:04 PM »

Having been to Chicago, Crash_It's horn etiquette is pretty awful compared to the typical Chicagoan. There are lengths of beeps for different situations. He just seems to lay into it all the time for numerous reasons.

For me, the longest horns are if someone pulls out in front of me and I have to break heavily (like near-hit type stuff); when cars pull out in front of me but into another lane, I don't care at all. Slowing but not heavy breaking usually constitutes high-beams only.

Shortest horns are for green light sitters (sometimes a short double tap), but I don't wait as long as others (if I can put in the clutch and start accelerating, you're getting honked at).

Oh, not really. There are people who will honk at you for not turning on red (where a no turn on red sign is posted) and for stopping at a stop sign

I honk if people don't turn on red. But very short horns to not get my ass whooped. Sometimes people need a little push.

Honking for stopping at a stop sign is, in the best use of the word, a bit confusing.

But do you honk at people who don't turn on red when there's a no turn on red sign? That's what the prior comment mentions.

Oh, shit, no, definitely not.

*post edited. Thanks.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2020, 03:12:52 PM »

Fresh video just released


I had to stop after 3 minutes.

Of those 3 minutes, the only serious infraction was the guy right around the 2 minute mark swerving or doing something odd.

The first video shows a guy checking his food order as he pulls away from the drive thru window.  Crash-it blows the horn for absolutely no reason, which probably echoed right into the drive-thru window, which would have bothered the innocent employees inside. 

At 1:52, he honks at someone who was simply trying to pull in from a parallel parking spot.

At 2:52, this Crash-It guy honks at someone who was stopped at the stop line late in the yellow phase, which is A COMPLETELY LEGAL STOP.  The guy moves, probably trying to get away from Crash-It.  The light turns Red.  Crash-it wasn't even at the stop line yet, and completely blew thru the red light. 

What a fucking jackass this guy is.
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2020, 03:59:01 PM »

Your horn is for alerting other drivers to a situation they may have missed!  They're changing lanes and didn't see you in their blind spot, for instance.  Or they were at a stoplight playing Angry Birds and didn't see the light turn green.  It's not for expressing your judgement of other drivers.

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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2020, 06:49:42 PM »

Fresh video just released


I had to stop after 3 minutes.

Of those 3 minutes, the only serious infraction was the guy right around the 2 minute mark swerving or doing something odd.

The first video shows a guy checking his food order as he pulls away from the drive thru window.  Crash-it blows the horn for absolutely no reason, which probably echoed right into the drive-thru window, which would have bothered the innocent employees inside. 

He was at the cashier window and was braking and slowly pulling forward all without paying attention. That's why I zoomed in so you can see that he was more concerned with what was going on inside of his car. Then after all this... He decides to suddenly pull a right turn from the left turn lane all without even looking. That's a very essential skill to have when driving and that driver completely lacks it

Quote
At 1:52, he honks at someone who was simply trying to pull in from a parallel parking spot.


Drivers pulling from parallel parking spots or driveways have to YIELD to traffic already on the roadway. Not force their way in.

Quote

At 2:52, this Crash-It guy honks at someone who was stopped at the stop line late in the yellow phase, which is A COMPLETELY LEGAL STOP.  The guy moves, probably trying to get away from Crash-It.  The light turns Red.  Crash-it wasn't even at the stop line yet, and completely blew thru the red light. 

What a fucking jackass this guy is.

Did you not see earlier in the clip where that same driver... after tailgating me, jumps in front of me only to later on do that? I was at the stop line and he had plenty of time to move through the intersection. If he hadn't passed me beforehand it would've been a non issue.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 06:57:24 PM by Crash_It »
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Re: Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2020, 06:53:29 PM »

You wouldn’t be in favor of the “Hypotenuse” by chance would you?
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