Skill level of the driving public seems to be on the decline

[kphoger]

Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".

  [emoji added to make you agree with me]

It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.

No it isn't.  In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.

For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.

Chapter 346.  Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6.  Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.

(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...

(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.

That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light.

And it's perfectly legal to not enter an intersection on a yellow light.

I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.

Yep.

When you posted video of your passing someone, you said you gain an advantage by making it through a green light but the slower driver caught the red.  And, as I said at the time, if you had been stopped by a red light instead of catching that green, then the other driver would be pissed off at YOU.

My, how the tables have turned!

The difference between what could have happened to you as the faster driver and what actually happened to you as the slower driver ultimately comes down to a matter of seconds:  had the light changed from yellow to red yet?

[Crash_It]

Stopping at a yellow light is not "stupid shit".

  [emoji added to make you agree with me]

It is when it's long enough for at least 3 cars to safely traverse the intersection in a left turn, such as what was the case there.

No it isn't.  In fact, in some states it's expressly required by law to stop at a yellow light.

For example, what you are calling "stupid shit" is the legal obligation upon all drivers in nearby Wisconsin.

Chapter 346.  Rules of the Road
Subchapter 6.  Traffic Signs, Signals, and Pavement Markings
346.37 Traffic−control signal legend.

(1) Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals ... the following colors shall be used and shall indicate and apply to operators of vehicles ...

(b) Yellow. Except as provided in par. (e) and s. 346.39 (2), when shown with or following the green, traffic facing a yellow signal shall stop before entering the intersection unless so close to it that a stop may not be made in safety.

That's Wisconsin, in Illinois it is perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light.

And it's perfectly legal to not enter an intersection on a yellow light.

I only called it stupid shit because the person passed me in a hurry prior to that.

Yep.

When you posted video of your passing someone, you said you gain an advantage by making it through a green light but the slower driver caught the red.  And, as I said at the time, if you had been stopped by a red light instead of catching that green, then the other driver would be pissed off at YOU.

My, how the tables have turned!

The difference between what could have happened to you as the faster driver and what actually happened to you as the slower driver ultimately comes down to a matter of seconds:  had the light changed from yellow to red yet?

If I'm passing someone though I'm not going to stop on a yellow light when it's clear that the both of us would've safely made it through the intersection.

[kphoger]

If I'm passing someone though I'm not going to stop on a yellow light when it's clear that the both of us would've safely made it through the intersection.

Irrelevant information.  "I'm not going to..." isn't the criterion for "stupid shit" behavior or not.

[jakeroot]

For what it's worth (as it's not a midwestern state), there is nothing in WA law that actually encourages stopping on yellow:

Vehicle operators facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal are thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.

Basically, it's an extension of the green light, and it comes with the same meanings.

[US 89]

I could swear Utah law was something to the effect of “stop if possible”... but I just went and looked it up, and it turns out it’s the exact same as it is in WA:

(3)   (a)   The operator of a vehicle facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is warned that the allowable movement related to a green signal is being terminated.

[jeffandnicole]

For what it's worth (as it's not a midwestern state), there is nothing in WA law that actually encourages stopping on yellow:

Vehicle operators facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal are thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.

Basically, it's an extension of the green light, and it comes with the same meanings.

I could swear Utah law was something to the effect of "stop if possible" ... but I just went and looked it up, and it turns out it's the exact same as it is in WA:

(3)   (a)   The operator of a vehicle facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is warned that the allowable movement related to a green signal is being terminated.

While it may not explicitly not say don't enter on a yellow, it is a pretty clear warning that you should consider stopping if safe to do so. If you think you can make it and the light turns red, then you're in the wrong.  If you enter on the yellow but can't make it across before the opposing direction gets the green, you're in the wrong (obstruction of traffic).  So, while you may not be cited for failing to yield on a yellow, there are still violations that could apply.

[jakeroot]

While it may not explicitly not say don't enter on a yellow, it is a pretty clear warning that you should consider stopping if safe to do so. If you think you can make it and the light turns red, then you're in the wrong.  If you enter on the yellow but can't make it across before the opposing direction gets the green, you're in the wrong (obstruction of traffic).  So, while you may not be cited for failing to yield on a yellow, there are still violations that could apply.

Yellow lights can mean whatever you want them to mean, but you are under no legal obligation to stop for them. Even if you enter at the very last millisecond, and perpendicular traffic receives a green light, you still did not break the law because you did not enter on red.

Other violations apply under certain circumstances, sure. However, the example you provided about "obstructing traffic" when other traffic receives a green may apply in NJ, but it would not in WA. Here, those obstruction laws would only apply for "blocking the box" scenarios where you physically cannot leave an intersection no matter what.

EDIT: to be clear, I recognize that you are approaching this pragmatically. I do, in fact, stop for yellow lights if I don't think I can make it in before it turns red. But I don't stop for them simply because they're a yellow light, as you may have to in other states (where entering on yellow but being in the intersection on red is illegal). This was my only point. There are other points to be made, but the difference in yellow laws (permissive vs restrictive) is an important thing to understand, and was the focus of discussion for this thread (WI is restrictive, IL is permissive).

[kphoger]

Illinois law simply defines a yellow light as a warning that it's about to turn red, just like Washington law.  Therefore, there it isn't exactly legally defined what you should do.  What you should do on a green light is defined, what you should do on a red light is defined, but a yellow light is legal no-man's land in states like Illinois.

[Crash_It]

Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois



https://fb.watch/27CoJTuXkL/

[kphoger]

meh

[formulanone]

Bro...totally common in South Florida. Get over it and just drive defensively instead of tracking down issues.

After watching someone else jump out of an exploding vehicle which severed in half after puncturing three rows of guardrail, I just think I'm going to be unimpressed with this video. 

[Crash_It]

meh

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

-Stops in the left lane outside of the dual turn lanes, further worsening the previous issue that was present

-Possibly attempted to turn outside of the lanes, cutting off the drivers legally in the lanes and potentially compromising oncoming traffic as well (don't know if he eventually done this or not) .

[kphoger]

meh

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

-Stops in the left lane outside of the dual turn lanes, further worsening the previous issue that was present

-Possibly attempted to turn outside of the lanes, cutting off the drivers legally in the lanes and potentially compromising oncoming traffic as well (don't know if he eventually done this or not) .

I never said I have no problem with it.  It's just a common enough occurrence that it's hardly worth a video.  A horn honk this time, perhaps, but forgive me if I'm unimpressed.

Heck, I probably see that same thing at least a few times a year on my afternoon commute home at this dual left turn intersection.  In fact, at this one, the straight-ahead movement only has one lane, therefore doing so holds up all straight-ahead traffic or prompts it to go around on the right.  And yes, occasionally that driver cuts off the other left-turners.  But those other drivers generally just accommodate the maneuver without so much as a horn honk or dirty look.  They all just get on with life.  I suggest you do the same.

[Crash_It]

meh

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

-Stops in the left lane outside of the dual turn lanes, further worsening the previous issue that was present

-Possibly attempted to turn outside of the lanes, cutting off the drivers legally in the lanes and potentially compromising oncoming traffic as well (don't know if he eventually done this or not) .

I never said I have no problem with it.  It's just a common enough occurrence that it's hardly worth a video.  A horn honk this time, perhaps, but forgive me if I'm unimpressed.

Heck, I probably see that same thing at least a few times a year on my afternoon commute home at this dual left turn intersection.  In fact, at this one, the straight-ahead movement only has one lane, therefore doing so holds up all straight-ahead traffic or prompts it to go around on the right.  And yes, occasionally that driver cuts off the other left-turners.  But those other drivers generally just accommodate the maneuver without so much as a horn honk or dirty look.  They all just get on with life.  I suggest you do the same.

That intersection you showed me is only a one way and doesn't have the potential conflict with oncoming left turn traffic like in my case. I am getting on with life, it's just that if people don't realize why certain moves are wrong (and knowing someone is out there that could potentially expose them)....the more accidents and collisions will result because lets face it...one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.

[kphoger]

one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.

...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.

[Crash_It]

one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.

...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.

Illinois law permits drivers to honk their horns to alert other drivers to a situation that they perceive to be dangerous, all of my honks are lawful.

[kphoger]

one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.

...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.

Illinois law permits drivers to honk their horns to alert other drivers to a situation that they perceive to be dangerous, all of my honks are lawful.

Not at all what I was talking about.

1.  Crossing a single solid white line.  Legal.

2.  Stopping at a yellow light.  Legal.  (after passing you, which is also legal)

[Crash_It]

one of the only reason collisions happen is because people don't follow the rules of the road.

...says a guy who has already gotten ticked off at, honked at, posted videos of, and griped about people breaking laws that don't exist–at least twice now–on this forum.

Illinois law permits drivers to honk their horns to alert other drivers to a situation that they perceive to be dangerous, all of my honks are lawful.

Not at all what I was talking about.

1.  Crossing a single solid white line.  Legal.

2.  Stopping at a yellow light.  Legal.  (after passing you, which is also legal)

Not if it was for the purpose of exceeding the limit, which isn't legal.

[US 89]

Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois

Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.

As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

[hotdogPi]

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

It's strongly discouraged to be going slower than right-lane traffic if you're in the left lane.

I remember a post by jeffandnicole about how one single driver going 55 on a freeway where everyone else goes 65 can cause congestion for the entire rush hour, but I don't think I'll be able to find it.

Re: driving over the speed limit being illegal, a few states in the Northwest allow going over by up to 5 in order to pass, and every state should allow it if it's the only way to avoid a crash. (I'm not sure if every state actually does say that, though.)

[US 89]

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

It's strongly discouraged to be going slower than right-lane traffic if you're in the left lane.

I remember a post by jeffandnicole about how one single driver going 55 on a freeway where everyone else goes 65 can cause congestion for the entire rush hour, but I don't think I'll be able to find it.

Well in that case you might get cited for impeding traffic, which is a separate thing.

[1995hoo]

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

It's strongly discouraged to be going slower than right-lane traffic if you're in the left lane.

I remember a post by jeffandnicole about how one single driver going 55 on a freeway where everyone else goes 65 can cause congestion for the entire rush hour, but I don't think I'll be able to find it.

Re: driving over the speed limit being illegal, a few states in the Northwest allow going over by up to 5 in order to pass, and every state should allow it if it's the only way to avoid a crash. (I'm not sure if every state actually does say that, though.)

But his latest video appears to be on a surface street or arterial, given the undivided roadway and the traffic light. "Keep right except to pass" is generally understood not to apply in that sort of situation, only on the open highway. It's perfectly understandable why, too, such as (for example) if someone's looking for a particular address he knows is on the left but doesn't know exactly where. There is no rule that says the "speed limit" is the speed at which you must travel.

[kphoger]

Not if it was for the purpose of exceeding the limit, which isn't legal.

Speeding is illegal period (except as noted in states which expressly permit it while passing, of which I believe Illinois is not one).  However, speeding does not automatically make passing illegal.  It is legal to pass in a passing zone, no matter what speed you're driving, unless it counts as reckless driving.

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

Driving under the posted speed limit is legally required when driving in the left lane, just as it is when driving in the right lane.  Also, Illinois law requires slower drivers to keep right only on Interstates or other "fully access controlled freeways".



The more you gripe, the more you reveal that you don't actually understand traffic laws as well as you think you do.

[Crash_It]

Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois

Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.

As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

(625 ILCS 5/11‑606) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑606)
Sec. 11‑606. Minimum speed regulation.

(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.


11-701.  Drive on right side of roadway--Exceptions.

(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:

(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

[kalvado]

Another example of how stupid some drivers can be...this is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen so far in Southern Illinois

Did he do the right thing? No. Would I maybe have honked at him? Sure. But is it worth making a video to put online? No.

As I and other posters have mentioned before, I've seen far worse.

You see no issue with this when he....

-Was driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane (which is an issue alone by itself)

It is not illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left lane. In fact, at night or in inclement weather, driving the posted speed may be too fast for conditions...which is illegal.

(625 ILCS 5/11‑606) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑606)
Sec. 11‑606. Minimum speed regulation.

(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.


11-701.  Drive on right side of roadway--Exceptions.

(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:

(b) Upon a 2 lane roadway, providing for 2-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall be driven in the right-hand lane available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

You realize that "right half of the roadway" means the right side of the entire road consisting of two lanes, not the right of two lanes when the road has 4(2+2)? In other words, it is "don't drive head-on into oncoming traffic", not "keep right"