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Author Topic: The Frost Tax  (Read 17742 times)

kernals12

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The Frost Tax
« on: December 27, 2020, 12:18:52 AM »

I loathe the cold. And from any rational viewpoint, you should too. It's expensive, bringing lots of problems that have no equivalent on the side of heat. I call it the "Frost Tax". Here's what it consists of:

-The Cost of Snow Removal
-The Cost of Warm Clothing
-The Cost of Natural Gas and Heating Oil
-The Cost of Snow Tires
-The Cost of Vehicles with All Wheel Drive
-The Cost of Engineering buildings to withstand the weight of snow
-Damage to highways by freeze thaw cycles
-Water pollution from road salt
-Closure of schools and businesses by snowstorms
-Disruption of airport operations by snowstorms
-Deaths from Hypothermia
-Car accidents from black ice
-Injuries from slipping on ice
-Seasonality of agriculture, construction, and tourism

We all pay the frost tax in obscure ways. Last week, in anticipation of a major snowstorm, I pulled my wipers away from my windshield, and in the process I stripped one of them. Getting a new one cost $70 and due to the post office's current problems, it's days late, so I've been driving with one wiper.

Maybe climate change isn't so bad.
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ilpt4u

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2020, 12:22:04 AM »

Snowfall helps to fill the water supply back up in the Great Lakes and other lakes, and of course snow up in the Rockies later melts and flows down the mountains to be water supplies, also

The Freeze-Thaw cycle is important to our way of life
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2020, 12:24:05 AM »

Snowfall helps to fill the water supply back up in the Great Lakes and other lakes, and of course snow up in the Rockies later melts and flows down the mountains to be water supplies, also

The Freeze-Thaw cycle is important to our way of life

Florida does just fine without them.

Why do all the animals hibernate or migrate, and why do all the trees shed their leaves in the winter rather than the summer?
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CtrlAltDel

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2020, 01:18:37 AM »

I loathe the cold. And from any rational viewpoint, you should too.

Well, that settles that.  :-D
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2020, 01:20:46 AM »

I loathe the cold. And from any rational viewpoint, you should too.

Well, that settles that.  :-D

I think we should put a tax on ice skates and ski equipment to fund snow removal so that the twerps who claim to love cold winters can put their money where their mouth is.
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US 89

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2020, 01:42:18 AM »

Just about everywhere in the US west of the 100th meridian depends on a winter's worth of mountain snowpack for water. So we don't complain when it snows.

Summer heat is no walk in the park, either. Heat is the #1 weather-related killer every year in the US. People are more likely to recreate outside in summer and get injured doing so. Air conditioning is expensive - and get enough people to run their a/c during a big heat wave, and you might overwhelm the local electrical grids. Hot weather often causes roads to buckle and makes tires more likely to burst. I could go on...

jeffandnicole

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2020, 01:54:10 AM »

In anticipation of a major snowstorm, I pulled my wipers away from my windshield, and in the process I stripped one of them. Getting a new one cost $70 and due to the post office's current problems, it's days late, so I've been driving with one wiper.

How did you manage this? It's literally a 2 second process to pull it away from the windshield. I will bet you may be alone in being the only person to destroy their wiper arm *before* it got icy.
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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2020, 07:09:44 AM »

Where I live (and where you live), there needs to be a significant amount of snow to close schools and businesses. In Atlanta, any snow at all, or even the forecast saying snow when there isn't any, will cause everything to shut down. We're no worse off than they are in this regard.
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GaryV

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2020, 07:12:37 AM »

There's never going to be another school snow day again.  It will just be remote learning.

And as the cost to heat my house in the winter goes up, the cost to cool it in the summer goes down.  The electric and gas bills even themselves out over the course of a year.
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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2020, 07:14:50 AM »

There's never going to be another school snow day again.  It will just be remote learning.

Any storm that causes power outages will be an actual snow day.
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kalvado

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2020, 07:40:08 AM »

It may be a good idea to assemble everyone in Florida. Then a single Category 5 can take care of all the issues at once
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SectorZ

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2020, 07:48:53 AM »

Don't forget the economic and health damages from road salt, because no one even wants to consider an alternative. That's my biggest problem with winter, and it's not even winter's fault, it's humanity's.

And by "health effects", I'll speak of the air quality alerts that pop up in the Conn. River valley and Cheshire County NH periodically in the winter when it's been dry for a while after a large snow storm, and that salt starts becoming routinely kicked up. The tasty fog in the valleys is just awesome.
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kalvado

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2020, 08:14:38 AM »

Don't forget the economic and health damages from road salt, because no one even wants to consider an alternative. That's my biggest problem with winter, and it's not even winter's fault, it's humanity's.

And by "health effects", I'll speak of the air quality alerts that pop up in the Conn. River valley and Cheshire County NH periodically in the winter when it's been dry for a while after a large snow storm, and that salt starts becoming routinely kicked up. The tasty fog in the valleys is just awesome.
Salt may be an endangered species, fortunately. We just have an article in a local newspaper how salt standard was supposed to be eased for 1 season only for Lake Placid olympics, but that became a new normal.
While definitely a problem for steel and vegetation, health effects are much less clear. Actually US approach to salt is yet another example of junky science.
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2020, 08:31:01 AM »

Don't forget the economic and health damages from road salt, because no one even wants to consider an alternative. That's my biggest problem with winter, and it's not even winter's fault, it's humanity's.

And by "health effects", I'll speak of the air quality alerts that pop up in the Conn. River valley and Cheshire County NH periodically in the winter when it's been dry for a while after a large snow storm, and that salt starts becoming routinely kicked up. The tasty fog in the valleys is just awesome.

Is there anything as effective as road salt that's better for the environment? And if there is, where was it in the 70s when several highways in New England were cancelled for fear of contaminating water supplies with road salt.
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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2020, 08:59:13 AM »

Don't forget the economic and health damages from road salt, because no one even wants to consider an alternative. That's my biggest problem with winter, and it's not even winter's fault, it's humanity's.

And by "health effects", I'll speak of the air quality alerts that pop up in the Conn. River valley and Cheshire County NH periodically in the winter when it's been dry for a while after a large snow storm, and that salt starts becoming routinely kicked up. The tasty fog in the valleys is just awesome.

Is there anything as effective as road salt that's better for the environment? And if there is, where was it in the 70s when several highways in New England were cancelled for fear of contaminating water supplies with road salt.

The other option is to make sure it never gets below freezing. Maybe heated pavement? The 59° rain we had a few days ago melted almost all the snow, but I don't think it would be possible to do anything similar manmade.

Now that I think about it, for small amounts (3 inches or less), making sure it remains snow and doesn't turn to ice is an option, but I don't know of any ways to do that.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 09:01:17 AM by 1 »
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2020, 09:07:49 AM »

Don't forget the economic and health damages from road salt, because no one even wants to consider an alternative. That's my biggest problem with winter, and it's not even winter's fault, it's humanity's.

And by "health effects", I'll speak of the air quality alerts that pop up in the Conn. River valley and Cheshire County NH periodically in the winter when it's been dry for a while after a large snow storm, and that salt starts becoming routinely kicked up. The tasty fog in the valleys is just awesome.

Is there anything as effective as road salt that's better for the environment? And if there is, where was it in the 70s when several highways in New England were cancelled for fear of contaminating water supplies with road salt.

The other option is to make sure it never gets below freezing. Maybe heated pavement? The 59° rain we had a few days ago melted almost all the snow, but I don't think it would be possible to do anything similar manmade.

Now that I think about it, for small amounts (3 inches or less), making sure it remains snow and doesn't turn to ice is an option, but I don't know of any ways to do that.

That would be wicked expensive. One town in Canada found that the electricity used by such a system would cost 20 times more than shoveling it. I believe solar power will make electricity much, much cheaper, but towns shouldn't plan based on my speculations.
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1995hoo

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2020, 09:10:56 AM »

There's never going to be another school snow day again.  It will just be remote learning.

....

One of the counties here (Jefferson County, WV) declared a snow day recently. The superintendent said kids should get to be kids and go out and have fun in the snow. Good for that superintendent.

One reason I’ve heard for some school systems possibly continuing with snow days is that in some places, the teachers teach from the school even if the students are remote. If it’s deemed unsafe for the teachers to drive to school, that might be a reason for a snow day.
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2020, 09:11:59 AM »

There's never going to be another school snow day again.  It will just be remote learning.

....

One of the counties here (Jefferson County, WV) declared a snow day recently. The superintendent said kids should get to be kids and go out and have fun in the snow. Good for that superintendent.

One reason I’ve heard for some school systems possibly continuing with snow days is that in some places, the teachers teach from the school even if the students are remote. If it’s deemed unsafe for the teachers to drive to school, that might be a reason for a snow day.

I would prefer a longer summer vacation.
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2020, 09:13:32 AM »

Just about everywhere in the US west of the 100th meridian depends on a winter's worth of mountain snowpack for water. So we don't complain when it snows.

Summer heat is no walk in the park, either. Heat is the #1 weather-related killer every year in the US. People are more likely to recreate outside in summer and get injured doing so. Air conditioning is expensive - and get enough people to run their a/c during a big heat wave, and you might overwhelm the local electrical grids. Hot weather often causes roads to buckle and makes tires more likely to burst. I could go on...

No it's not, 17 times more deaths are caused by extreme cold than heat
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2020, 09:15:30 AM »

In anticipation of a major snowstorm, I pulled my wipers away from my windshield, and in the process I stripped one of them. Getting a new one cost $70 and due to the post office's current problems, it's days late, so I've been driving with one wiper.

How did you manage this? It's literally a 2 second process to pull it away from the windshield. I will bet you may be alone in being the only person to destroy their wiper arm *before* it got icy.
My car returns its wipers to under the windshield whenever I turn it off and when I tried to pull it up, it wouldn't budge.
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1995hoo

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2020, 09:28:25 AM »

Just in case you aren’t aware:

Quote
Avoid posting multiple times in a row. Posts may be edited by the original author at any time. Multiple posts may be merged into one by the moderators at their discretion.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=992.0
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2020, 09:35:00 AM »

Actually I rather like the cold.  I have to use way less water while distance running, cycling, or hiking.  Given most regular folks prefer warm conditions they usually stay at home which provided me with quieter locales to travel to. 
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The Nature Boy

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2020, 09:38:04 AM »

OP seems to be forgetting about the "heat tax" that was much more severe before the advent of air conditioning. There are plenty of natural ways to heat a space, you can use a wood stove or a fireplace. There are few natural ways to make a place like Florida remotely bearable in the summer. Old Southern architecture is a testament to the many ways that people tried to keep those places cool. A lot of the things that make "nice weather" places bearable are there because of technology and terraforming by humans. Get rid of even air conditioning and no one thinks of Miami as a "nice weather" place.

There are also the environmental hazards that these places used to present. Warm and muggy places, such as Florida, had to deal with malaria and other diseases that were rampant in hot, swampy environments. Malaria was even a threat in DC and a real worry for early occupants of the White House. Places like Arizona had to deal with a lack of water, which again is also bad. The only reason that humans can live in these places is because of us draining the swamps in Florida and the greater South, diverting water resources in the Southwest, and the widespread use of air conditioning.

The heat tax is pretty severe on the surrounding environment.
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2020, 09:43:22 AM »

Actually I rather like the cold.  I have to use way less water while distance running, cycling, or hiking.  Given most regular folks prefer warm conditions they usually stay at home which provided me with quieter locales to travel to.

You live in California, what you consider cold is not cold.
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kernals12

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Re: The Frost Tax
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2020, 09:50:01 AM »

And let us not forget about the tens of millions of Americans who have been displaced by the unbearable winters in the North.

Parked cars buried by snow in New York City, 1947

Children play after a record setting blizzard in Chicago, 1967

Cars abandoned on Route 128 near Boston after Nor'Easter, 1978

And faced with such uninhabitable conditions, Americans moved south by the trainload.

Los Angeles, 1950s

Phoenix, 1950s

Miami, 1970s

The migration to the sunbelt, started in earnest after World War II with the arrival of air conditioning, may be one of the largest peacetime non-coerced movements of people in human history.

In 1950, of the top 10 largest cities in America, there was only one sun belt entrant, Los Angeles at #4. By 2010, LA had moved up to #2 and was joined by Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Jose, San Diego, and Dallas. For over 150 years, New York was our largest state, but it fell behind 3 sun belt states, first California in 1962, then Texas in 1994, and Florida in 2014.

In 1950, 55% of Americans lived in the Northeast or Midwest, but today it's just 38%, a difference of 56 million. 56 million climate refugees.
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