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[74/171FAN]

I'm trying to clean up my VA county map, potentially in preparation for a county-clinching trip. There's a few independent cities which I'm not sure if I have or not. I've done 81 through the entire state (southbound). The ones I'm unsure of are Radford, Staunton, and Winchester. Google maps has 81 right on the border in all of these cases, usually with southbound actually in the county and northbound not. Does anybody have a definitive answer?

Radford from what I have noticed is definitely not on I-81, but taking the exits for VA 177 (Exit 109) or VA 232 (Exit 105) can get you there very quickly.  I also do not remember seeing any signs saying that I-81 enters Staunton.  I am unsure about Winchester, but from looking at the Virginia state map I believe that I-81 never technically enters any of these cities.

[Mapmikey]

Probably the best source to answer this type of question is the VDOT Traffic Logs...

http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/Traffic_2012/AADT_PrimaryInterstate_2012.pdf

I-81 does pass into Winchester for 0.07 miles.  The northern edge of this is 0.09 miles south of the VA 7 exit.

It does not pass through any of the other cities you mention.

Mapmikey

[cpzilliacus]

Probably the best source to answer this type of question is the VDOT Traffic Logs...

http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/Traffic_2012/AADT_PrimaryInterstate_2012.pdf

That is indeed an excellent source.

I-81 does pass into Winchester for 0.07 miles.  The northern edge of this is 0.09 miles south of the VA 7 exit.

It does not pass through any of the other cities you mention.

Mapmikey

Do you remember the "Annexation wars" between Alexandria and Fairfax County, which resulted in a "truce" that has the boundary between the two  running alongside  the Capital Beltway (I do not believe it's in the median at any point)?

Alexandria wanted to annex some lands that were south of the Beltway (I think in the vicinity of Va. 241, Telegraph Road), but the efforts by the city were ultimately beaten-back. 

So now the city has all of the Beltway from a point west of the U.S. 1 (Patrick Street) interchange to the Virginia landing of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, and the only lands within the city but "outside" the Beltway are just south of Beltway along U.S. 1 and the apartment buildings south of the Beltway along Va. 400 (South Washington Street).

[froggie]

and the only lands within the city but "outside" the Beltway are just south of Beltway along U.S. 1 and the apartment buildings south of the Beltway along Va. 400 (South Washington Street).

The latter yes, but technically not the former.  The city/county boundary basically follows Cameron Run through this area, so while the apartment buildings immediately south of the Beltway along Washington St are in Alexandria, the development on US 1 south of the Beltway is in Fairfax County.  Cameron Run is very tidal in this area, hence why the Outer Loop ramps are almost completely on bridge structure.

[cpzilliacus]

and the only lands within the city but "outside" the Beltway are just south of Beltway along U.S. 1 and the apartment buildings south of the Beltway along Va. 400 (South Washington Street).

The latter yes, but technically not the former.  The city/county boundary basically follows Cameron Run through this area, so while the apartment buildings immediately south of the Beltway along Washington St are in Alexandria, the development on US 1 south of the Beltway is in Fairfax County.

Yeah, that's right. I should have stated it better or more clearly.  You were not in the D.C. area for the annexation wars, were you?  I don't think you could have been, since they took place in the 1960's and early 1970's, and the Virginia General Assembly put an "interim" halt to cities doing hostile take-overs of unincorporated land in about 1979 - a halt that continues today.

Cameron Run is very tidal in this area, hence why the Outer Loop ramps are almost completely on bridge structure.

Yes.  Even parts of the Beltway itself are on bridges, though it is not especially obvious to drivers.

[roadman65]

How does Virginia Law Enforcement confirm a single rider on I-66 bound for Dulles Airport, as during peak travel times the I-66 freeway is designated HOV2?  I often wondered that because if that were the case any single rider using I-66 when it is restricted could be a lone business traveler on way to and from IAD, especially east of the Dulles Airport Access Road and the Roosevelt Bridge.

[1995hoo]

How does Virginia Law Enforcement confirm a single rider on I-66 bound for Dulles Airport, as during peak travel times the I-66 freeway is designated HOV2?  I often wondered that because if that were the case any single rider using I-66 when it is restricted could be a lone business traveler on way to and from IAD, especially east of the Dulles Airport Access Road and the Roosevelt Bridge.

In the afternoons I've typically seen them doing HOV enforcement on the off-ramps on westbound I-66 and at the split between the airport lanes and the local lanes (the latter that become the Dulles Toll Road). In the mornings I've typically seen them doing enforcement at the on-ramps. I know in both cases they sometimes do the opposite (I've seen them at the on-ramp from Fairfax Drive some afternoons), but more often than not I've seen the way I described. In that situation, it makes it clear the SOV isn't airport-bound.

When I've used I-66 as an SOV to go to the airport, I've printed out my flight confirmation and brought it along in case I got stopped. One time I went to pick up my wife (actually I guess we weren't married yet) and I don't remember what I did that time. I do remember going out there quite early so I could go SOV during rush hour even though her flight arrived after HOV hours ended. I've never been stopped, so I don't know what sorts of things they ask, but they claim to be good at ferreting out people who aren't legitimate.

An interesting nuance, by the way, is that any airport business is legitimate for use of the Dulles Access Road (including putting gas in the car or buying coffee at the airport gas station), but VDOT says the same is not true for I-66 and that you get the HOV exemption only if you yourself are catching or coming from a flight or if you are picking up someone arriving on a flight.

[cpzilliacus]

Richmond Times Dispatch: Pocahontas 895 toll road under a new operator

Pocahontas 895 has a new operator, a year after an Australian company walked away from a long-term concession for the underperforming toll parkway across the James River between Henrico and Chesterfield counties.

DBi Services, based in northeastern Pennsylvania, quietly assumed control of the parkway – the first road built by public-private partnership in Virginia – on May 15 and informed local government officials two weeks later.

The company took over operation from Transurban, an Australian company whose board of directors voted last June to transfer control of the highway to a consortium of European banks that holds $300 million in debt on the project, not including a $150 million federal loan that must be repaid.

[cpzilliacus]

WTVR Channel 6 (CBS): VDOT conducting study for widening of I-64 between Richmond and beach

RICHMOND, Va. — The Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) continues to study the stretch of Interstate 64 between Richmond and Newport News, as drivers complain about constant backups and weekend gridlock.

On Tuesday, traffic backed up for nine miles on I-64 East in New Kent County after a crash.

Hundreds of drivers sat in standstill traffic for several hours.

Although VDOT is conducting the study for the eventual widening of the stretch of I-64 between Richmond and Newport News, so far funding has only been made available to widen a five-mile stretch of the road in Newport News.

[maplestar]

New Va. state transportation map available - http://hamptonroads.com/2014/07/new-va-state-transportation-map-available

Virginia officials say the state's new transportation map is now available.

The Virginia Department of Transportation said more than 2 million maps are available at state welcome centers and by request at safety rest areas. State maps also are available at VDOT offices across the state and on their website.

[TheOneKEA]

I witnessed approximately 100+ cars, trucks and 18-wheelers exit I-95 north at Thornburg today and then turn onto US 1 north, with the end of the backup clearly visible beyond the interchange.

At some point it will become economically infeasible to expand or improve I-95 any further, and with I-81 too far away, I wonder what other north-south corridors in central Virginia could be upgraded to abstract the long-distance traffic and some of the commuter traffic.

[Mapmikey]

US 29 Bypass extension from US 250 north to Rivanna River is rescinded from the State Highway System today...

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2014/july/reso/Resolution_Agenda_Item_8.pdf

The FHWA is not happy with the environmental assessments so far and Virginia's response is to start over with improvements to 29 north of US 250 being part of a larger mobility study that is funded in the 2015-2020 six-year plan.

Mapmikey

[cpzilliacus]

From NVTA (no link available yet):

July 16, 2014
   
Fixin' to Fix I-66
More than a decade since the last I-66 Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) was abandoned, VDOT is moving forward with a Tier 2 EIS and efforts to solicit private sector (P3) offers.

Details on these initiatives were provided at today's Commonwealth Transportation Board meeting.

Of the 10 improvement Concept Scenarios formulated following the Tier 1 EIS, the highest rated scenarios are the following: (order not related to ranking)

    Two Managed Lanes + Metrorail
    Two Managed Lanes + Metrorail + VRE
    One New General Lane + Two Managed Lanes + Metrorail
    Two New General Lanes + Two Managed Lanes + Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) + VRE
    Two New General Lanes + Two Managed Lanes + BRT

Project benefits goals include providing new travel choices and congestion relief, promoting regional connectivity, and creating a seamless network of transit/HOV/express lanes to serve major job centers. The scope of the Tier 2 study will include adding two Express lanes, maintaining three general lanes and adding rapid bus service. Tolling options will also be studied.

 

The 1-66 corridor project will move forward as a P3 project to more quickly advance improvements. At today's CTB meeting, VDOT officials put forward the following projected project timeline: 

    Brief CTB on findings prior to initiation of a potential P3 procurement - fall 2014
    Issue Request for Qualifications (RFQ) - late 2014
    Announcement of short-listed teams - mid 2015
    Develop and Issue Request for Proposals (RFP) - late 2015
    CTB approval of selected alternative in 2015
    Anticipated NEPA completion - End of 2015
    Construction projected to begin by 2017

To review slides presented at today's CTB meeting, click here.

"I-66 is probably the number one transportation
 priority, not just in Northern Virginia, but in the 
entire state."

Aubrey L. Layne, Jr.
Virginia Secretary of Transportation
July 16, 2014

[ARMOURERERIC]

Though Metro out to at least Fair Oaks would seem logical, at some point, maybe it's already occurring, you won't be able to find any available occupancy during the commutes from Ballston into DC

[froggie]

Not unless and until a separate Blue Line tunnel from Rosslyn east is built.  Even so, that will only get them 6 more Orange or Silver Line trains per hour.

[TheOneKEA]

Not unless and until a separate Blue Line tunnel from Rosslyn east is built.  Even so, that will only get them 6 more Orange or Silver Line trains per hour.

I would also argue that the upcoming arrival of the 7000-Series trains will help, but only if the order is increased sufficiently to allow all of the Orange Line trains to be 8 cars, every day.

[1995hoo]

Not unless and until a separate Blue Line tunnel from Rosslyn east is built.  Even so, that will only get them 6 more Orange or Silver Line trains per hour.

I would also argue that the upcoming arrival of the 7000-Series trains will help, but only if the order is increased sufficiently to allow all of the Orange Line trains to be 8 cars, every day.

The 7000-series cars will run only in four- or eight-car consists, so any train using those will pretty much have to have eight cars because they're also incompatible with the older cars. (The cynic in me says they'll run four-car 7000-series trains on the Blue Line.) But WMATA have also been pretty emphatic about saying they need to upgrade the power system before they can run all eight-car trains on any line (except maybe the Blue since as of Monday it'll only have five trains per hour, even at rush hour, but they won't all be eight cars).

Regarding I-66, I find the mentions of VRE interesting but puzzling. I can't begin to picture where you'd put that sort of train along that corridor. Inside the Beltway the old W&OD right-of-way is reasonably proximate to I-66 (although development along the route would pose eminent domain issues in places), but I can't see them dumping the park in favor of a rail line, especially when the W&OD is already a pretty thriving commuter route as it is. I'm not aware of any other rail right-of-way in that area. Same issue applies to the idea of a nonstop train from Dulles to Union Station (in the mold of the Heathrow Express, but preferably with a lower fare)–neither the tracks nor the right-of-way exist.

It's all well and good to talk about extending Metrorail service further out, but it's not viable to do anything about it (beyond the already-in-progress Silver Line) until they uncork the downtown bottleneck, as froggie notes. Otherwise you're just dumping more people through the same narrow chokepoint and at some point you simply can't do it anymore.

[Mapmikey]

My guess is that the VRE extension component means extending it from Manassas to Haymarket...

Mapmikey

[1995hoo]

My guess is that the VRE extension component means extending it from Manassas to Haymarket...

Mapmikey

Ah, I didn't even picture that area because I believe they're preparing to start the widening from Gainesville to Haymarket as it is (this based on orange work zone signs starting to appear when we drove out to Linden on July 6). I just presumed they wouldn't be considering further upgrades to that part of the corridor right now. I was picturing the part that is most desperately in need of improvement, the part from the Beltway to Fair Oaks–which, of course, is also by far the most difficult to improve in any meaningful way!

[froggie]

Regarding I-66, I find the mentions of VRE interesting but puzzling. I can't begin to picture where you'd put that sort of train along that corridor.

The presumption is that a combination of the Haymarket extension (that Mike mentioned) and service improvements on the Manassas Line would give folks in Manassas and points west an alternative to the I-66 slog.

VRE has been highly successful, and their survey numbers indicate that they have been very successful in attracting the "niche" crowd (riders who own 2+ cars and/or are in high income brackets).  But VRE is also starting to bump into the same capacity issues that Metro is running into.

[1995hoo]

Regarding I-66, I find the mentions of VRE interesting but puzzling. I can't begin to picture where you'd put that sort of train along that corridor.

The presumption is that a combination of the Haymarket extension (that Mike mentioned) and service improvements on the Manassas Line would give folks in Manassas and points west an alternative to the I-66 slog.

VRE has been highly successful, and their survey numbers indicate that they have been very successful in attracting the "niche" crowd (riders who own 2+ cars and/or are in high income brackets).  But VRE is also starting to bump into the same capacity issues that Metro is running into.

Yeah, as I said above, that area hadn't occurred to me as part of the discussion, but it's nice to see some thinking ahead. The I-66 widening about to begin from Gainesville to Haymarket is, in a sense, similar to extending the Metrorail–it's an important project and will help people out there, but it will also to some degree pose the problem of helping to speed people's access to the backed-up segment from Fair Oaks to the Beltway. So if they're focusing on other improvements beyond that widening (not counting the seemingly-endless and long-overdue US-29 project because it's well underway), that's a good thing.

Ultimately, ANY sort of service from Virginia to DC, whether it be a subway, commuter rail, bus rapid transit, or new or improved roads, will run into the same issue: There's a natural barrier there in the form of the Potomac River that imposes constraints on what you can do because of the expense of building new bridges or tunnels. Unless I'm mistaken, as a practical matter all the train service heading from Virginia to Union Station has to go over the Long Bridge and through the area near the Mandarin Oriental and the old DOT headquarters, then through the tunnel. (I'm discarding the idea of some sort of roundabout routing out beyond Leesburg and through Maryland because it's unrealistic–hence why I said "as a practical matter.") I'm sure that has to impose some limitation on what you can do, just as the Rosslyn tunnel does.

Either way, for Virginia to be considering commuter rail options is a big change from where things were 30 years ago.

[cpzilliacus]

Regarding I-66, I find the mentions of VRE interesting but puzzling. I can't begin to picture where you'd put that sort of train along that corridor.

The presumption is that a combination of the Haymarket extension (that Mike mentioned) and service improvements on the Manassas Line would give folks in Manassas and points west an alternative to the I-66 slog.

VRE has been highly successful, and their survey numbers indicate that they have been very successful in attracting the "niche" crowd (riders who own 2+ cars and/or are in high income brackets).  But VRE is also starting to bump into the same capacity issues that Metro is running into.

Yeah, as I said above, that area hadn't occurred to me as part of the discussion, but it's nice to see some thinking ahead. The I-66 widening about to begin from Gainesville to Haymarket is, in a sense, similar to extending the Metrorail–it's an important project and will help people out there, but it will also to some degree pose the problem of helping to speed people's access to the backed-up segment from Fair Oaks to the Beltway. So if they're focusing on other improvements beyond that widening (not counting the seemingly-endless and long-overdue US-29 project because it's well underway), that's a good thing.

Ultimately, ANY sort of service from Virginia to DC, whether it be a subway, commuter rail, bus rapid transit, or new or improved roads, will run into the same issue: There's a natural barrier there in the form of the Potomac River that imposes constraints on what you can do because of the expense of building new bridges or tunnels. Unless I'm mistaken, as a practical matter all the train service heading from Virginia to Union Station has to go over the Long Bridge and through the area near the Mandarin Oriental and the old DOT headquarters, then through the tunnel. (I'm discarding the idea of some sort of roundabout routing out beyond Leesburg and through Maryland because it's unrealistic–hence why I said "as a practical matter.") I'm sure that has to impose some limitation on what you can do, just as the Rosslyn tunnel does.

Either way, for Virginia to be considering commuter rail options is a big change from where things were 30 years ago.

Commuter rail is only going to get people to Alexandria, Arlington (Crystal City) and two stops in D.C.  And because it has to co-exist to some extent with freight rail, its headways will always be limited.

As for extending the Orange Line further west, I am not at all certain that will do much either.  For one thing, an enormous public investment in parking has been made at Vienna.  Second, where would the stops be, and how much parking would there be at those?

Extending also means much more pressure on the stations further east (West Falls Church, East Falls Church and so on).

The whole traction power issue (and inability to run 8-car trains) was an act of deceit by previous WMATA employees.  On the one hand, they proudly talked about line capacity as if the system could handle 8-car consists from the very start of service.  On the other hand, they deliberately undersized the traction power infrastructure when the system was constructed to "save money."

[cpzilliacus]

Washington Post: Virginia transportation officials pledge to ease traffic problems on Interstate 66

[Henry]

This has to be welcome news to that part of the Washington metro area! Then again, anything to ease congestion is.

[cpzilliacus]

My guess is that the VRE extension component means extending it from Manassas to Haymarket...

There's also a constraint there - the NS line between Manassas and Front Royal (on which a future Haymarket stop would be located) is a single-track affair, so it will not be able to handle that many trains.