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Author Topic: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways  (Read 11419 times)

seicer

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2021, 08:46:34 AM »

No one is going to watch your videos of you being overly aggressively honking and flashing your lights at drivers at traffic lights (who just hadn't started out from a red light) or aggressively speeding through construction zones or you being overly aggressively at transit drivers (which may have had the right-of-way).

He was still braking even seconds after the light went green. That's a lack of paying attention, no one was speeding through a construction zone. That was a "when lights are flashing" construction zone..which wasn't the case at that time.

I don't start out after the light turns green, either. Having been t-boned by a red-light runner, and having witnessed more red-light runners than I care to count anymore, I'd rather have the intersection cleared than risk my life with a type of a crash that has a higher chance of severe injury or death.

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2021, 09:15:27 AM »

No one is going to watch your videos of you being overly aggressively honking and flashing your lights at drivers at traffic lights (who just hadn't started out from a red light) or aggressively speeding through construction zones or you being overly aggressively at transit drivers (which may have had the right-of-way).

He was still braking even seconds after the light went green. That's a lack of paying attention, no one was speeding through a construction zone. That was a "when lights are flashing" construction zone..which wasn't the case at that time.

I don't start out after the light turns green, either. Having been t-boned by a red-light runner, and having witnessed more red-light runners than I care to count anymore, I'd rather have the intersection cleared than risk my life with a type of a crash that has a higher chance of severe injury or death.

I've never been hit by a red-light runner, but I've seen my fair share of them. So I, too, will wait a couple of seconds after the light turns before I go. It's called "defensive driving" and if more people practiced it, there might be fewer wrecks.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2021, 09:25:10 AM »


I've never been hit by a red-light runner, but I've seen my fair share of them. So I, too, will wait a couple of seconds after the light turns before I go. It's called "defensive driving" and if more people practiced it, there might be fewer wrecks.

If everyone did this, there would be significantly more congestion.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2021, 09:33:24 AM »

Around here, there's usually a few seconds' delay between one light turning red and the other going green. Most of the red-light runners blow through during those few seconds.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2021, 09:34:44 AM »

Congestion isn't caused by defensive driving but by roadway capacity being reasonably high or level of service being degraded.

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2021, 09:38:30 AM »

Congestion isn't caused by defensive driving but by roadway capacity being reasonably high or level of service being degraded.

Capacity (actual capacity; you meant demand when you said it) is based on effective green time. If a signal is green for 25 seconds, yellow for 4, and red for 31 seconds on a 60-second cycle, the effective green time for that approach is 25 plus 4 (assuming people go through the yellow, which they will unless there's a camera) minus the amount of time it takes to start up when it turns green, which is usually 1 to 2 seconds. If people wait a few seconds when it turns green, effective green time will be less.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2021, 09:57:49 AM »

Congestion isn't caused by defensive driving but by roadway capacity being reasonably high or level of service being degraded.

Capacity (actual capacity; you meant demand when you said it) is based on effective green time. If a signal is green for 25 seconds, yellow for 4, and red for 31 seconds on a 60-second cycle, the effective green time for that approach is 25 plus 4 (assuming people go through the yellow, which they will unless there's a camera) minus the amount of time it takes to start up when it turns green, which is usually 1 to 2 seconds. If people wait a few seconds when it turns green, effective green time will be less.

Seemingly the majority of drivers are oblivious to the light turning green anyway because they're so obsessed with playing with their phones. (More and more I see people stopping a full carlength back of the stop bar, which I assume is because they've already started messing with their phones before coming to a stop and they're just plain unaware of where the line is. Drives me nuts when the combination of that plus people leaving huge gaps means you can't get into the turn lane.)
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2021, 10:26:42 AM »

While coming back to Wichita from Del Rio with my best friend, I was mildly irritated at his left lane behavior.  He gets over into the left lane early, and he doesn't dip back into the right lane to let people by as long as there's someone within sight that he plans to pass as well.  This behavior prompted a couple of drivers between OKC and Wichita to gun it around him in the right lane, and one even blared his horn at us.

When a driver with New Mexico plates gunned it around us in the right lane, my friend muttered "That's illegal in your state too".

— What's illegal? I asked
— Going around me in the right lane.
— I'm not aware of any state where that's illegal.
— It's illegal in Kansas.
— No it isn't.  I've never seen that law.  It is illegal to drive in the left lane when someone is wanting trying to get around you.

He slowly nodded his head and didn't say anything.
I don't know if he believed me or not.

I have heard this one a lot and I don't know where it comes from?  Why do people think it's illegal to pass on the right?
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2021, 10:56:20 AM »

Congestion isn't caused by defensive driving but by roadway capacity being reasonably high or level of service being degraded.

Capacity (actual capacity; you meant demand when you said it) is based on effective green time. If a signal is green for 25 seconds, yellow for 4, and red for 31 seconds on a 60-second cycle, the effective green time for that approach is 25 plus 4 (assuming people go through the yellow, which they will unless there's a camera) minus the amount of time it takes to start up when it turns green, which is usually 1 to 2 seconds. If people wait a few seconds when it turns green, effective green time will be less.

Seemingly the majority of drivers are oblivious to the light turning green anyway because they're so obsessed with playing with their phones. (More and more I see people stopping a full carlength back of the stop bar, which I assume is because they've already started messing with their phones before coming to a stop and they're just plain unaware of where the line is. Drives me nuts when the combination of that plus people leaving huge gaps means you can't get into the turn lane.)

You may be seeing more electric cars on the road.  They stop differently when you let your foot off of the accelerator.  If they have regenerative break turned up all the way they may stop well ahead of the intended point.
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kphoger

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2021, 12:08:25 PM »

If you are driving 60 mph in the left lane, passing a car in the right lane that's doing 55 mph, in a 65 mph speed limit zone, you are doing nothing wrong, even if a car that's doing 65 or greater pulls up behind you. You have every right to complete your pass at your current speed without having to speed up.

Correct.  And then you get over into the right lane to let the other guy pass.

Same thing if you were going 90 mph and the guy behind you were going 95 mph.  Because KRETP laws don't exist in order to make it OK to impede some drivers but not other drivers.


While coming back to Wichita from Del Rio with my best friend, I was mildly irritated at his left lane behavior.  He gets over into the left lane early, and he doesn't dip back into the right lane to let people by as long as there's someone within sight that he plans to pass as well.  This behavior prompted a couple of drivers between OKC and Wichita to gun it around him in the right lane, and one even blared his horn at us.

When a driver with New Mexico plates gunned it around us in the right lane, my friend muttered "That's illegal in your state too".

— What's illegal? I asked
— Going around me in the right lane.
— I'm not aware of any state where that's illegal.
— It's illegal in Kansas.
— No it isn't.  I've never seen that law.  It is illegal to drive in the left lane when someone is wanting trying to get around you.

He slowly nodded his head and didn't say anything.
I don't know if he believed me or not.

I have heard this one a lot and I don't know where it comes from?  Why do people think it's illegal to pass on the right?

I assume it's because states generally have laws prohibiting passing on the right in certain circumstances—specifically on roads that have one lane per direction of traffic.  Such laws vary by state and prohibit passing on the right unless there is sufficient room to do so, or unless doing so doesn't involve driving off the pavement, or whatever.  Because such a law is a prohibition against "passing on the right", and only certain circumstances are listed as exceptions, people are simply taught that passing on the right is illegal.  Some of them then assume it applies to multi-lane roads as well.

The first time I was ever pulled over, back when I was in high school, the police officer mentioned my having passed someone on the right (besides my speeding).  It was a four-lane state highway, so perfectly legal, but apparently even the police officer was mistaken about the law (no longer surprising to me).
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2021, 12:19:11 PM »

Congestion isn't caused by defensive driving but by roadway capacity being reasonably high or level of service being degraded.

Capacity (actual capacity; you meant demand when you said it) is based on effective green time. If a signal is green for 25 seconds, yellow for 4, and red for 31 seconds on a 60-second cycle, the effective green time for that approach is 25 plus 4 (assuming people go through the yellow, which they will unless there's a camera) minus the amount of time it takes to start up when it turns green, which is usually 1 to 2 seconds. If people wait a few seconds when it turns green, effective green time will be less.

Seemingly the majority of drivers are oblivious to the light turning green anyway because they're so obsessed with playing with their phones. (More and more I see people stopping a full carlength back of the stop bar, which I assume is because they've already started messing with their phones before coming to a stop and they're just plain unaware of where the line is. Drives me nuts when the combination of that plus people leaving huge gaps means you can't get into the turn lane.)

You may be seeing more electric cars on the road.  They stop differently when you let your foot off of the accelerator.  If they have regenerative break turned up all the way they may stop well ahead of the intended point.

I'm aware of that, and it applies to many hybrids as well, but it doesn't seem to matter what sort of vehicle is being driven. I see all sorts leaving huge gaps.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2021, 12:57:08 PM »

The only time I leave any sort of "large" gap is when I am behind a motorcyclist. In the event I am rear-ended, I would like there to be some neutral area between us to reduce the likelihood of them being involved and/or of a serious injury. As bikes have no crumple zones, I treat them differently.



Around here, there's usually a few seconds' delay between one light turning red and the other going green. Most of the red-light runners blow through during those few seconds.

As they do around here. Older signals should have this delay installed if they do not have them. This effectively takes care of that "wait a moment" attitude that some drivers have. All-red phases are usually not installed in states where it is illegal to be in the intersection on red (not most, but some like Oregon), but I think this should change.

I usually look left and right but I do it while I still have a red light. When my light turns green, I have already cleared to the left and right. But even then, I still have the all-red phase plus a good 1 to 2 seconds before I enter the intersection from a stop (stop line + gap + crosswalk + gap). If you still manage to get T-boned in this situation, it's spectacularly bad luck or you took zero precautions to protect yourself.
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seicer

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2021, 02:43:51 PM »

Not all lights have that protection, and not all intersections have clear right-of-ways where you can see around. In my instance, the driver came out of the left lane (the right lane was stacked) at 35 MPH+. There was not way to see the driver. But it's also hard to determine if a driver is slowing down - or slowing down only to speed up to "beat" the light.

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2021, 03:14:49 PM »

Congestion isn't caused by defensive driving but by roadway capacity being reasonably high or level of service being degraded.

Capacity (actual capacity; you meant demand when you said it) is based on effective green time. If a signal is green for 25 seconds, yellow for 4, and red for 31 seconds on a 60-second cycle, the effective green time for that approach is 25 plus 4 (assuming people go through the yellow, which they will unless there's a camera) minus the amount of time it takes to start up when it turns green, which is usually 1 to 2 seconds. If people wait a few seconds when it turns green, effective green time will be less.

Seemingly the majority of drivers are oblivious to the light turning green anyway because they're so obsessed with playing with their phones. (More and more I see people stopping a full carlength back of the stop bar, which I assume is because they've already started messing with their phones before coming to a stop and they're just plain unaware of where the line is. Drives me nuts when the combination of that plus people leaving huge gaps means you can't get into the turn lane.)

You may be seeing more electric cars on the road.  They stop differently when you let your foot off of the accelerator.  If they have regenerative break turned up all the way they may stop well ahead of the intended point.

Generally, electric and hybrid cars work the same way as gasoline powered cars when it comes to stopping.  I can activate the regen braking to help slow my car down, but unless I intend to do a half-mile roll uphill its not going to come to a complete stop on its own - I still need to physically apply the brake.  A driver probably couldn't even guess when to activate regen braking to pick a specific spot to stop.

While coming back to Wichita from Del Rio with my best friend, I was mildly irritated at his left lane behavior.  He gets over into the left lane early, and he doesn't dip back into the right lane to let people by as long as there's someone within sight that he plans to pass as well.  This behavior prompted a couple of drivers between OKC and Wichita to gun it around him in the right lane, and one even blared his horn at us.

When a driver with New Mexico plates gunned it around us in the right lane, my friend muttered "That's illegal in your state too".

— What's illegal? I asked
— Going around me in the right lane.
— I'm not aware of any state where that's illegal.
— It's illegal in Kansas.
— No it isn't.  I've never seen that law.  It is illegal to drive in the left lane when someone is wanting trying to get around you.

He slowly nodded his head and didn't say anything.
I don't know if he believed me or not.

I have heard this one a lot and I don't know where it comes from?  Why do people think it's illegal to pass on the right?

I think it comes from a few reasons:

People are told to keep to the right and pass on the left.

People are told passing on the right is illegal. And depending on their source, they'll believe that incorrect source over a hundred factual sources.

As kphoger mentioned, there are certain cases where someone shouldn't pass on the right - such as passing on the shoulder to get around a left turning vehicle.  And this law isn't universal across all states.  Heck, I was once told part of some development projects is to provide shoulder room for a vehicle to pass a left-turning vehicle (where a left turn lane wasn't provided)...and that was in a state which prohibits passing on the right shoulder!
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seicer

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2021, 03:34:52 PM »

Like in Indiana? They essentially create a turnout on the shoulder for vehicles to turn into to pass left turning vehicles.

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2021, 03:40:29 PM »

Like in Indiana? They essentially create a turnout on the shoulder for vehicles to turn into to pass left turning vehicles.

At least in NJ, they are usually marked with a solid white line so technically you're not supposed to use them.  In Delaware, they'll mark the shoulder as an official pull-out lane so you can legally get around a left turning vehicle.
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seicer

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2021, 04:10:46 PM »

Or you could just get behind the left-turning vehicle and flash your lights and honk your horn excessively because they are blocking the lane ;)

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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2021, 04:18:32 PM »

Or you could just get behind the left-turning vehicle and flash your lights and honk your horn excessively because they are blocking the lane ;)

Ain’t legit unless you got that dramatic effect.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2021, 04:51:39 PM »

While coming back to Wichita from Del Rio with my best friend, I was mildly irritated at his left lane behavior.  He gets over into the left lane early, and he doesn't dip back into the right lane to let people by as long as there's someone within sight that he plans to pass as well.  This behavior prompted a couple of drivers between OKC and Wichita to gun it around him in the right lane, and one even blared his horn at us.

When a driver with New Mexico plates gunned it around us in the right lane, my friend muttered "That's illegal in your state too".

— What's illegal? I asked
— Going around me in the right lane.
— I'm not aware of any state where that's illegal.
— It's illegal in Kansas.
— No it isn't.  I've never seen that law.  It is illegal to drive in the left lane when someone is wanting trying to get around you.

He slowly nodded his head and didn't say anything.
I don't know if he believed me or not.

I have heard this one a lot and I don't know where it comes from?  Why do people think it's illegal to pass on the right?

It used to be pretty heavily discouraged in driver-education materials, so people may think that was done because it's actually illegal and not just bad form. Also, I think it actually is illegal in Germany and the United Kingdom, and perhaps some other places.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2021, 04:53:39 PM »

It used to be pretty heavily discouraged in driver-education materials, so people may think that was done because it's actually illegal and not just bad form. Also, I think it actually is illegal in Germany and the United Kingdom, and perhaps some other places.

I'd bet money that passing on the right is perfectly legal in the UK.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2021, 09:28:12 PM »

Like in Indiana? They essentially create a turnout on the shoulder for vehicles to turn into to pass left turning vehicles.

I've seen those in a lot of places. In many cases, the white edge line follows the contour of the turnout and there's a short white line that appears to delineate a turn lane, but there's no yellow taper the way there is with most full-fledged turn lanes. There are also no signs indicating that it's a turn lane, or arrows on the pavement to indicate that it's a turn lane. When I encounter one, I typically drive straight through it unless there is a left-turning vehicle.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2021, 01:39:12 PM »

Or you could just get behind the left-turning vehicle and flash your lights and honk your horn excessively because they are blocking the lane ;)

If that driver planning to turn left is going slow (more than 5 under the speed limit) in tandem with the driver in the right lane.. Then yes, he is blocking the lane and impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and should either speed up to allow for that right lane driver to be passed or move out of the lane and not return until the last 0.12miles before the turn.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2021, 01:41:26 PM »

Or you could just get behind the left-turning vehicle and flash your lights and honk your horn excessively because they are blocking the lane ;)

If that driver planning to turn left is going slow (more than 5 under the speed limit) in tandem with the driver in the right lane.. Then yes, he is blocking the lane and impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and should either speed up to allow for that right lane driver to be passed or move out of the lane and not return until the last 0.12miles before the turn.

Oh hey, the raging fraud artist is back.  Everyone honk their horn to announce the return of our one true traffic savior.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2021, 01:47:36 PM »


Or you could just get behind the left-turning vehicle and flash your lights and honk your horn excessively because they are blocking the lane ;)

If that driver planning to turn left is going slow (more than 5 under the speed limit) in tandem with the driver in the right lane.. Then yes, he is blocking the lane and impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and should either speed up to allow for that right lane driver to be passed or move out of the lane and not return until the last 0.12miles before the turn.

If the driver is planning to turn left, then by definition he cannot be "upon an Interstate highway or fully access controlled freeway", which is the only place that Illinois' KRETP law applies.

Yes, I agree that, even on a non-freeway road, doing so is rude and impedes the normal flow of traffic—but it's both perfectly legal and very common behavior.

Not everyone drives exactly the way you want.  Get over it.
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Re: Left lane blockers becoming standard on our highways
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2021, 01:57:00 PM »

Or you could just get behind the left-turning vehicle and flash your lights and honk your horn ex'cessively because they are blocking the lane ;)

If that driver planning to turn left is going slow (more than 5 under the speed limit) in tandem with the driver in the right lane.. Then yes, he is blocking the lane and impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and should either speed up to allow for that right lane driver to be passed or move out of the lane and not return until the last 0.12miles before the turn.

Hate to tell you this, but keep right except to pass laws don't apply on uncontrolled highways (i.e. anything that's not an interstate or freeway without intersections).

Your videos prove to be good evidence of what not to do.

 


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