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Author Topic: The entire length of the Edens Expressway  (Read 6041 times)

sprjus4

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2021, 10:07:58 AM »

Why hasn’t Michigan increased the speed limit there up to 70 mph? There’s clearly precedent, and it’s not like they’re shy with high urban limits.

Where east of the Mississippi is a high urban speed limit? Nowhere, all major cities drop the limits to 55 or lower. Indy, Milwaukee and Columbus are all examples of this.
You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows. Virtually all the urban freeways in that state are posted at 70 mph in every major city.

A lot of the eastern states, including Kentucky, South Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, and West Virginia post at least 60 mph on urban freeways. Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and Michigan all have urban freeway speed limits of 65 mph, and some up to 70 mph. Try again.
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formulanone

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2021, 10:10:20 AM »

A few of us on here drive in the Detroit area just about every day. For one experience on a freeway that isn't the normal and that is driving the speed limit. Detroiters don't care what the speed limit is we drive fast and furious and the freeway's are like a race track.

This is common in many places - there's some where you're lucky to achieve the speed limit in rush hours and others where it flows freely. And others were you're lucky to even have that third lane.

Again, I believe there's a confirmation bias and perception that because you* and your lane of traffic wants to go fast; ergo, everyone is doing it.

* this includes me, except when I'm on vacation or half-awake

Why hasn’t Michigan increased the speed limit there up to 70 mph? There’s clearly precedent, and it’s not like they’re shy with high urban limits.

Where east of the Mississippi is a high urban speed limit? Nowhere, all major cities drop the limits to 55 or lower. Indy, Milwaukee and Columbus are all examples of this.
You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows. Virtually all the urban freeways in that state are posted at 70 mph in every major city.

A lot of the eastern states, including Kentucky, South Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, and West Virginia post at least 60 mph on urban freeways. Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and Michigan all have urban freeway speed limits of 65 mph, and some up to 70 mph. Try again.

70mph speed limits on an urban freeway is usually pretty rare, unless it's Texas.

It's definitely not posted at 70 in Atlanta, Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile, Nashville, Jackson, Charlotte, Miami (nor most of South Florida, save the Turnpike), Orlando, Jacksonville, Memphis, Hattiesburg, Meridian, and Knoxville. Once you're into the suburbs or rural areas outside of those city cores, then the speed limits jumps back up (with a few exceptions).
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 10:21:11 AM by formulanone »
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sprjus4

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2021, 10:16:16 AM »

probably would end up just pushing him out of the way.

this is an old wives' tale
It's very true. The Lodge is a freeway where people routinely do over 80 mph and doing 55 in the middle lane is a bad idea. Just for the sake of being truthful the last time I drove on the Lodge my top speed was 103 mph coming around the curve between Linwood and Davison. It's a big boy highway.

Been there, done that. It's just an overused trope that I'm tired of hearing; literally nobody is getting "run over" or "pushed out of the way" unless somebody ain't paying attention in stopped traffic or a movie is being filmed.

As much as I can advocate that speed enforcement sucks, no experienced driver immediately assumes that they can get away with driving 20 over a posted speed limit until the flow of traffic suggests otherwise. Given that if the leftmost lane is the passing lane, and the rightmost lane routinely travels under the speed limit because of merging cloverleaf traffic, than it's reasonable and understandable that going exactly the speed limit in the middle lane is still tolerable, though less than ideal in some cases. For the record, I'm not a fan of 55 on any free-flowing freeway, unless there's some sort of exceptionally sharp curve or the route is coming to an abrupt end/stop.

Just because you want to ride a bumper at 80 doesn't mean the rest of us always do. Some of us have learned the hard way that just because I wish to go 80 doesn't mean that it's acceptable everywhere. Traffic isn't dictated by the fastest driver, nor should it be decides by the slowest movers, despite what 5-10% of the jackasses on the road want to do.
It isn't overused at all. Drivers on Detroit freeways do want to go 80 mph it's more the norm than it's not. It's more than 10% of the drivers that are driving 80 mph along a freeway too. MDOT doesn't sign anything higher than 70 in the Detroit area and probably never will. That's just the speed limit that hardly anyone cares about.
It is overused… is someone an asshole and incredibly dangerous (regardless of whatever artificially low limit is posted) for driving 55 mph in the left lanes of an urban freeway where the flow is over 70 mph? Yes. But are they going to get “ran off the road”? Highly doubtful unless someone quite literally crashes into them. They’ll all run up on the persons bumper, maybe honk a horn (this one sounds familiar!), and whip around them, but unfortunately nothing will prevent the slow driver from just sitting them. Except maybe blue lights coming on behind them, but doubtful since police never care to enforce left lane policies.

Driving on I-64 sometime in the past year in Norfolk, the speed limit was 55 mph and the flow was about 65 mph. There was a state trooper in the group driving about the same (usually the flow is a little faster, but no one is going to pass the cop already at 10 over), and the cop probably about 3-4 times turned on his lights when he came up on someone in the left lane going the speed limit, moved them over, then simply passed them to the left. It was a beautiful sight.
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kphoger

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2021, 10:47:28 AM »






It's not holding anyone back because the speed limit is 55 and that's what I was doing.

That's a non-sequitir.

Your doing the speed limit doesn't mean you're not holding anyone up.  If they're going faster than you are, and you're in their way, then you're holding them up.  Simple as that.

I'm not in their way, there's a whole lane to their left that they can go into, that's what it's there for.

If you're not passing anyone, going the speed limit or otherwise, you should be in the right lane.

This is incorrect. This would imply that if there is a large volume of cars all going a similar speed then they must all use the right lane out of 3. That is, of course, nonsense. The left lane should be available for passing, however any non-left lane such as the center lane should still be used in order to maximize the capacity of the road.

Good point. I should say you should be in the right-most lane possible. In other words, if people are passing you on your right, you should move over. If you're going the same speed, and as long as you aren't in the very left lane, technically you're fine. I try to avoid this though on the road. If I find myself going to same speed, I will either speed up to actually pass or back off and slot in behind the driver to my right.

Pertinent portions bolded.

If you're going exactly the same speed as someone next to you, and faster traffic is stacking up behind you, then you need to (a) slow down and duck into the right lane or (b) speed up.  Two drivers going the same speed just block two lanes instead of one lane.
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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2021, 10:48:26 AM »

Why hasn’t Michigan increased the speed limit there up to 70 mph? There’s clearly precedent, and it’s not like they’re shy with high urban limits.

Where east of the Mississippi is a high urban speed limit? Nowhere, all major cities drop the limits to 55 or lower. Indy, Milwaukee and Columbus are all examples of this.
You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows. Virtually all the urban freeways in that state are posted at 70 mph in every major city.

A lot of the eastern states, including Kentucky, South Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, and West Virginia post at least 60 mph on urban freeways. Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and Michigan all have urban freeway speed limits of 65 mph, and some up to 70 mph. Try again.

70mph speed limits on an urban freeway is usually pretty rare, unless it's Texas.

It's definitely not posted at 70 in Atlanta, Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile, Nashville, Jackson, Charlotte, Miami (nor most of South Florida, save the Turnpike), Orlando, Jacksonville, Memphis, Hattiesburg, Meridian, and Knoxville. Once you're into the suburbs or rural areas outside of those city cores, then the speed limits jumps back up (with a few exceptions).

I don’t think the term “urban freeway” necessarily implies city core. As far as Atlanta goes, the downtown connector is 55 mph and I-20 through the center of town is 60, but almost everything else in the metro area is 65. I-85 is 70 through most of Gwinnett County, which although it isn’t the core of a major city is a fairly dense and well developed urban-suburban region.

Although the central Nashville freeways are all posted at 55, I seem to remember the 70 mph limits extending a lot closer to the downtown area than I would have guessed.

If you want another place with 70mph limits through city cores, look no further than Salt Lake City. With a couple short exceptions due to tight geometry and substandard construction, all interstates in the metro there are 70 mph.

sprjus4

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2021, 10:54:53 AM »

^ Exactly the point I was attempting to make. It’s not about the city center highways, which are inevitably going to be posted lower. I’m referring to, often higher quality, suburban freeways outside the core. A number of states artificially limit these to 55 mph or 60 mph with no engineering logic besides “urban = must be slow”, though the vast majority outside, save the Northeast, will post 65 mph or 70 mph limits with no problem.

As for the Nashville example, very true. Most freeways continue at 70 mph until close to the core. All of Knoxville was recently bumped from 55 mph to 65 mph throughout, except Downtown which is quite reasonable kept to 60 mph.
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Flint1979

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2021, 11:58:13 AM »

Why hasn’t Michigan increased the speed limit there up to 70 mph? There’s clearly precedent, and it’s not like they’re shy with high urban limits.

Where east of the Mississippi is a high urban speed limit? Nowhere, all major cities drop the limits to 55 or lower. Indy, Milwaukee and Columbus are all examples of this.
You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows. Virtually all the urban freeways in that state are posted at 70 mph in every major city.

A lot of the eastern states, including Kentucky, South Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, and West Virginia post at least 60 mph on urban freeways. Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and Michigan all have urban freeway speed limits of 65 mph, and some up to 70 mph. Try again.
Just except the short stretches that are posted at 55 but you are correct 70 is the speed limit on urban freeways here. We have freeways posted as high as 75 in rural areas as well as two lane state highways and a few two lane US highways posted at 65, usually those are 55 in most areas.
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Flint1979

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2021, 12:06:07 PM »

You people driving in an area a few times compared to someone who does on a regular basis aren't going to fool anyone into believing what you think is normal. I was just on I-75 moments ago and was one of twenty drivers I counted having to use the right three lanes to pass because a bunch of trucks with campers think they belong in the left lane doing 70. And this was just in a six mile stretch of I-75. And that's all I counted there could have been more. Top speed I got up to was 88 mph.
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Crash_It

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2021, 12:08:19 PM »

Why hasn’t Michigan increased the speed limit there up to 70 mph? There’s clearly precedent, and it’s not like they’re shy with high urban limits.

Where east of the Mississippi is a high urban speed limit? Nowhere, all major cities drop the limits to 55 or lower. Indy, Milwaukee and Columbus are all examples of this.
You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows. Virtually all the urban freeways in that state are posted at 70 mph in every major city.

A lot of the eastern states, including Kentucky, South Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, and West Virginia post at least 60 mph on urban freeways. Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and Michigan all have urban freeway speed limits of 65 mph, and some up to 70 mph. Try again.

I have driven to Michigan before but just to Niles. 94 wasn't posted higher than 70 in that stretch. In Columbus Ohio the speed limit drops to 55 and then 45 right through the downtown area similar to Chicago. In Zanesville the limit also drops to 55 for some unknown reason.
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kphoger

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2021, 12:12:25 PM »


You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows.

I have driven to Michigan before but just to Niles.

Wow, even I've driven in Michigan more than you have!  And that's saying something...
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Crash_It

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2021, 01:16:27 PM »


You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows.

I have driven to Michigan before but just to Niles.

Wow, even I've driven in Michigan more than you have!  And that's saying something...

I have no reason to go there. If I have no reason to go there I don't go there. Just like I didn't have a reason to go to Ohio until recently.
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sprjus4

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2021, 01:19:14 PM »


You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows.

I have driven to Michigan before but just to Niles.

Wow, even I've driven in Michigan more than you have!  And that's saying something...

I have no reason to go there. If I have no reason to go there I don't go there. Just like I didn't have a reason to go to Ohio until recently.
Then you can’t comment that Michigan (or other states you haven’t been too) “don’t” have urban speed limits above 55 mph, when in fact you’d be wrong. Michigan, as said above, has most urban freeways posted at 70 mph.
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kphoger

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2021, 01:53:08 PM »

Where east of the Mississippi is a high urban speed limit? Nowhere, all major cities drop the limits to 55 or lower.




You’ve never driven in Michigan, and it shows.

I have driven to Michigan before but just to Niles.

Wow, even I've driven in Michigan more than you have!  And that's saying something...

I have no reason to go there. If I have no reason to go there I don't go there. Just like I didn't have a reason to go to Ohio until recently.

Which is fine, perfectly normal.

I'm just saying you should therefore hesitate to make claims about what things are like "nowhere east of the Mississippi", when you haven't even been farther into Michigan than a trip to Niles.
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Flint1979

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2021, 02:08:10 PM »

Niles is barely over the border you couldn't even possibly experience enough of Michigan on a trip to Niles and then back to Chicago.
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kphoger

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2021, 02:24:58 PM »

Niles is barely over the border you couldn't even possibly experience enough of Michigan on a trip to Niles and then back to Chicago.

I once drove to Union Pier, MI.  We crossed the far south suburbs of Chicago during the Friday afternoon rush hour.  Once we got past I-65, traffic on I-94 cleared up.  It was like someone pulled the rope on the chute at a rodeo.  All across northern Indiana and into the tip of Michigan, I found myself going 88 mph but not passing very many cars:  at least three of them nearby were going the same speed I was.

Now imagine if, after that experience, I purported to say what driving is like in Indiana and Michigan!
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Flint1979

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2021, 06:20:20 PM »

Niles is barely over the border you couldn't even possibly experience enough of Michigan on a trip to Niles and then back to Chicago.

I once drove to Union Pier, MI.  We crossed the far south suburbs of Chicago during the Friday afternoon rush hour.  Once we got past I-65, traffic on I-94 cleared up.  It was like someone pulled the rope on the chute at a rodeo.  All across northern Indiana and into the tip of Michigan, I found myself going 88 mph but not passing very many cars:  at least three of them nearby were going the same speed I was.

Now imagine if, after that experience, I purported to say what driving is like in Indiana and Michigan!
Sounds normal. I've driven in Chicago and back and forth so many times I have the experience pretty much down pat. That is about where the traffic scatters and everyone seems to get moving after that point on all expressways involved.
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Flint1979

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Re: The entire length of the Edens Expressway
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2021, 07:25:26 PM »

I pulled a cra_shit today. I was on NB M-13 in Bay City. This is the intersection where SB M-13 turns onto Broadway but I was coming the other direction and making a right onto M-84 the right turn green arrow was on and a car was sitting across the lane stopped and blocking traffic from going through so I laid on the horn. After we made our turn the car made a right turn into rite aid and the driver flicked me off, i flicked her off back.
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