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Poll

Which type of signs do you prefer?

Extruded
- 7 (21.2%)
Increment
- 13 (39.4%)
Don't care
- 13 (39.4%)

Total Members Voted: 33


Author Topic: Are extruded or increment signs better?  (Read 2677 times)

tolbs17

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Scott5114

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2021, 03:10:20 PM »

If one was actually better or worse, all the states would use the better one.
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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2021, 03:37:39 PM »

I have always felt like extruded was better, especially when they place finishing caps on the vertical edges.  GA, IL, and KY pretty consistently do this, among others.  I personally prefer extruded because that’s what I grew up seeing in TN and KY, and I truly cannot stand how NC does their incremental signage because when they feel the need to add something to a sign they put up a little auxiliary sign above or below the main sign.

FL appears to use extruded for service logo signage along the mainlines, and flat panels for everything else.  Also, VA appears to be transitioning to extruded after using only flat panel signage for years, but I think there are still instances of new flat panel signage going up. So I’m thinking that with them going from using one type to using both types, they are either experimenting or they feel that one may be better.


« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 03:40:52 PM by wriddle082 »
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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2021, 04:53:33 PM »

To me the finishing caps used in those states look like a 2nd border outside the sign's actual border.
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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2021, 05:39:58 PM »

This is a nice truckload of highway signs. The WEIGH STATION sign appears to be extruded in this street view in North Carolina.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8070554,-80.8774086,3a,26.9y,347.69h,90.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUzOHHcjg2QYv06LO3vPhPg!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192
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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2021, 10:16:50 AM »

If incremental/flat signs are supposed to be the superior type, then why aren't more states using it? (AFAIK, only four of them actively use the flat kind on their highways: FL, NY, NC and VA, plus NJ for its toll roads; also, this is also the type of sign that is seen in the MUTCD.)

That being said, I strongly prefer extruded signs because they are the more familiar type, and also because they look more complete than the flat ones do.
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hbelkins

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2021, 11:21:30 AM »

If incremental/flat signs are supposed to be the superior type, then why aren't more states using it? (AFAIK, only four of them actively use the flat kind on their highways: FL, NY, NC and VA, plus NJ for its toll roads; also, this is also the type of sign that is seen in the MUTCD.)

That being said, I strongly prefer extruded signs because they are the more familiar type, and also because they look more complete than the flat ones do.

I think Montana uses them as well.
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1995hoo

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2021, 12:07:30 PM »

I couldn't care less in general except that I think the real rounded corners look better.
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ran4sh

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2021, 12:17:07 PM »

If incremental/flat signs are supposed to be the superior type, then why aren't more states using it? (AFAIK, only four of them actively use the flat kind on their highways: FL, NY, NC and VA, plus NJ for its toll roads; also, this is also the type of sign that is seen in the MUTCD.)

That being said, I strongly prefer extruded signs because they are the more familiar type, and also because they look more complete than the flat ones do.

You forgot Washington, Alabama, Utah, Wyoming, etc

I couldn't care less in general except that I think the real rounded corners look better.

Which is related but not completely the same thing. Rounded corners are not possible with extruded panel signs, but even with incremental panel signs some/most states don't bother to round the corners.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 12:22:34 PM by ran4sh »
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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2021, 01:56:15 PM »

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2021, 05:43:19 PM »

Added a "don't care" option to vote.
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2021, 07:46:51 PM »

I prefer extruded because they are more durable and are easier to expand. This is especially crucial for logo signs (which I think is the reason why Florida uses extruded panels for them).

BTW Puerto Rico also uses flat incremental signage
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roadfro

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2021, 01:58:36 AM »

At least for overhead signs, Nevada appears to use increment/flat panel signs, but a more durable frame mounting method. All the sign panels are mounted to a rigid frame, and that frame is attached to the sign structure. It also helps that overhead signs are almost always mounted so the lower edge of the sign is not mounted any lower than the lower chord of the sign structure.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2021, 02:30:48 AM »

My choice was "Don't care"--my main concern is that the sign should be designed with satisfactory space padding around the legend.  Besides extruded aluminum and increment panel/extrusheet, laminated panels are still used (in California and Pennsylvania), as are formed panels (California and Nevada, if I understand Roadfro correctly).  They all have their pros and cons in terms of cost, durability, the difficulty or otherwise of message revision, and so on.
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JoePCool14

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2022, 04:30:58 PM »

I also chose "Don't care". I think both look nice, and as a roadgeek, I can appreciate the variety. I definitely care more about whether the sign is appropriately designed, over the type of panel. And I have to say, Florida and North Carolina are decent in this area.
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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2022, 09:15:13 PM »

Note to the @Mods/Admins, how do you add "Change your vote" option to this? I was hoping for other members to change their vote since most of them don't care whether a sign is extruded or increment. Thanks.
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US 89

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2022, 11:34:36 PM »

At least for overhead signs, Nevada appears to use increment/flat panel signs, but a more durable frame mounting method. All the sign panels are mounted to a rigid frame, and that frame is attached to the sign structure.

If I'm understanding right, this is the case in Utah as well. The few extruded panel signs in the state are not mounted by UDOT (NPS comes to mind).

Scott5114

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2022, 11:52:04 PM »

Note to the @Mods/Admins, how do you add "Change your vote" option to this? I was hoping for other members to change their vote since most of them don't care whether a sign is extruded or increment. Thanks.

Click "Edit Poll":


Then "Allow users to change vote":
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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2022, 12:01:43 AM »

Don't see that.

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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2022, 08:26:42 PM »

If incremental/flat signs are supposed to be the superior type, then why aren't more states using it? (AFAIK, only four of them actively use the flat kind on their highways: FL, NY, NC and VA, plus NJ for its toll roads; also, this is also the type of sign that is seen in the MUTCD.)

That being said, I strongly prefer extruded signs because they are the more familiar type, and also because they look more complete than the flat ones do.
I would leave Virginia out. They still actively post new extruded signs:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8038682,-76.1972984,3a,39y,37.18h,98.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slGTLngG2t-8BAtXtBLsRGw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

However, if you scroll back to the previous date, you can see they used to be increment.
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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2022, 08:05:51 AM »

This sign is square and is incremental. It was installed in 2002 or 2003. This is a unique sign i have to say!

US-23
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4tB1S8aU1LBCLgMZ9

Other sign

US-23
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QhfyGasMLkEPQB4g9
« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 08:08:09 AM by tolbs17 »
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Scott5114

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2022, 01:35:24 PM »

Look at the backs of them—it would appear they put another layer of panels over an older rounded-corner incremental sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8504338,-82.5275154,3a,19.8y,330.26h,112t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEqPaPxQv1f85C0F-4ajeXA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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tolbs17

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2022, 01:38:58 PM »

Look at the backs of them—it would appear they put another layer of panels over an older rounded-corner incremental sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8504338,-82.5275154,3a,19.8y,330.26h,112t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEqPaPxQv1f85C0F-4ajeXA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I guess that's for extra durability I guess. But many of the square signs here are like that.
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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2022, 01:55:06 PM »

If incremental/flat signs are supposed to be the superior type, then why aren't more states using it? (AFAIK, only four of them actively use the flat kind on their highways: FL, NY, NC and VA, plus NJ for its toll roads; also, this is also the type of sign that is seen in the MUTCD.)

I think recent editions of the MUTCD have used illustrations with rounded sign corners primarily for reasons of good draftsmanship.

If a sign illustration has rounded corners, then the black outer outline--which is necessary to allow the white border to be seen against the white of the page--is against white on both sides throughout.  If corners are left unrounded and the background color is extended out beyond the border, then the outer outline needs to be changed to the background color (sacrificing uniform contrast) or black has to appear against dark background color on one side at the corners, which is a rule-of-tincture violation.

This consideration doesn't come into play for the actual physical signs since they are seen in the field without bounding outlines.  Agencies are simply told that untrimmed corners are acceptable in general, which frees them to adopt the substrate designs that make the most sense for them in terms of other criteria such as cost, durability, ease of mounting in the field, etc.
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Scott5114

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Re: Are extruded or increment signs better?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2022, 03:11:47 PM »

Look at the backs of them—it would appear they put another layer of panels over an older rounded-corner incremental sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8504338,-82.5275154,3a,19.8y,330.26h,112t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEqPaPxQv1f85C0F-4ajeXA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I guess that's for extra durability I guess. But many of the square signs here are like that.

I would imagine it has less to do with durability and more to do with not wanting to pay to remove the old sign and dispose of it before installing the new one. Sort of like how people stick license plate stickers over top of the old one rather than peeling the old one off. Doesn't make it more durable (in fact, it's the opposite when it comes to stickers), just takes less time.
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