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Author Topic: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident  (Read 2527 times)

Scott5114

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Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« on: January 24, 2022, 01:33:00 AM »

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-erie/video-shows-snow-plow-causing-crash-on-ohio-turnpike-in-erie-county

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JREwing78

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2022, 04:05:43 AM »

Suffice it to say that plow driver's prospects for continued employment are bleak. It should have been plainly obvious the snow was getting strewn into oncoming traffic.

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Rothman

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2022, 06:58:25 AM »

Suffice it to say that plow driver's prospects for continued employment are bleak. It should have been plainly obvious the snow was getting strewn into oncoming traffic.

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Given how hard it is to find plow drivers right now, he actually will probably find work again.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2022, 10:34:15 AM »

Suffice it to say that plow driver's prospects for continued employment are bleak. It should have been plainly obvious the snow was getting strewn into oncoming traffic.

SM-G991U
Given how hard it is to find plow drivers right now, he actually will probably find work again.

Back in the 60s and 70s IDOT had full time maintenance employees and very few temps. Each maintenance team would have a section of routes that were assigned, so the responsibilities and chains of command were clear cut. They would mow and do small to medium scale pavement management projects in the summer and be mobilized for snow duty in the winter. Obviously there was a lot of slack time in the winter between snowstorms and emergency pothole repair. The right sizing of maintenance to have the bare minimum FT employees, contracting out summer repairs and hiring "snowbird" temps on a call board in advance of a storm has had its intended and unintended consequences.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 10:36:47 AM by Rick Powell »
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hbelkins

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2022, 11:44:03 AM »

I saw a story online that had a dash cam video from a trucker that showed what was going on. The story stated the driver was a contractor, not an ODOT or turnpike commission employee.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2022, 12:08:45 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.

In this case, the driver was wrong, no doubt. But it also highlights why plows can't go down the road at 40 or 50 mph, or even at highway speeds, as some people expect. Even at 25 mph, there's enough force to throw snow and slush over bridge overpasses, crashing onto vehicles below.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 12:11:31 PM by jeffandnicole »
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2022, 01:13:33 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?
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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2022, 01:15:42 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?

I think impatience has risen over the last 30 years in general, much of it due to the rise of the internet, texting, and social media.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2022, 01:30:35 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?

I think impatience has risen over the last 30 years in general, much of it due to the rise of the internet, texting, and social media.


No doubt we have a lack of patience over some things - like access to information and ability to be in touch with someone - due to technology.  However I don't necessarily think we have an overall lack of patience due to those things. 

Anecdotally, I haven't noticed much difference with people driving after a big snow than I did 30 years ago.  In fact, it seems like schools, businesses, etc. are more apt to close now than they would back then. 
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jemacedo9

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2022, 01:36:33 PM »

The NY Thruway Authority has constant reminders on their social media that their plows travel no more than 35MPH and in the comments people still complain about that.
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zzcarp

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2022, 01:50:46 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?

I think impatience has risen over the last 30 years in general, much of it due to the rise of the internet, texting, and social media.

Even 30 years ago, the Turnpike was known as the road that would be cleared first and maintained the best. And for the current circumstances, from the video, the lanes in both directions were pretty much entirely clear. This was a post-storm cleanup gone awry, not driver impatience.
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hbelkins

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2022, 03:14:32 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.

In this case, the driver was wrong, no doubt. But it also highlights why plows can't go down the road at 40 or 50 mph, or even at highway speeds, as some people expect. Even at 25 mph, there's enough force to throw snow and slush over bridge overpasses, crashing onto vehicles below.

From what I saw, it didn't appear that the plow was working on clearing a travel lane, but the inside shoulder. The opposite side showed all three lanes down to black pavement.
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edwaleni

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2022, 04:02:32 PM »

It has been awhile, but I recall that ISTHA plows would turn the plow blade to a high angle  (top of blade forward extremely over the bottom part) when scraping inside shoulders. This kept the flotsam from riding high on the blade and taking a large path of ejection over the J barriers. These shoulder trucks were usually followed by a bumper truck with the large impact barrier and strobes.

Way back in the mid to late 70's when the Chicago area got socked, I remember ISTHA using augers to remove snow from the inside shoulders because there was nowhere else for the snow to go.

It was like a road scraping operation, but with snow instead of ground up asphalt. The snow was then trucked over to the nearest retention pond and dumped.
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2022, 11:53:38 PM »

Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?

His day job (presently) is driving a snowplow.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2022, 12:57:12 AM »


Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?

Read comments sections for news stories regarding snow removal. It's a very common complaint that transportation departments haven't cleared the roads fast enough.

Or, review the news stories from VA's 95 closure at the beginning of the year. Many complained that VDOT should've been clearing the road much faster (even when the road was jammed with traffic). Very few said the drivers should've been driving slower.

Or, to be more blunt - as best as I can tell, I'm the only one on these forums that plows snow on the roads. I always figured that would be beneficial to provide some information on how plowing is done, and why some myths and assumptions don't play out in reality. Instead, when I bring it up, it's almost universal blasting as to why I (and all plow operators) are basically wrong in anything and everything. And when fellow road enthusiasts want to claim plow operators are always wrong, the general public will be even more critical of how the roads are plowed and treated. It's goes back to what you questioned about evidence...I'm giving you first hand evidence of what I see. Get your butt in a truck during a snowstorm. Not sure what more evidence you want, unless you're willing to get a call to go out and plow the roads yourself.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 01:18:48 AM by jeffandnicole »
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2022, 08:50:46 AM »


Back a few decades ago when there was snow, people were more patient and stayed off the roads for the crews to do their jobs. Today the motoring public demands roads be travelable as soon as possible, requiring more crews to work during and just after a snowfall. Some people honestly believe snow shouldn't ever be on the road, an impossible feat.


Do you have any actual evidence for these assumptions?

Read comments sections for news stories regarding snow removal. It's a very common complaint that transportation departments haven't cleared the roads fast enough.

Or, review the news stories from VA's 95 closure at the beginning of the year. Many complained that VDOT should've been clearing the road much faster (even when the road was jammed with traffic). Very few said the drivers should've been driving slower.

Or, to be more blunt - as best as I can tell, I'm the only one on these forums that plows snow on the roads. I always figured that would be beneficial to provide some information on how plowing is done, and why some myths and assumptions don't play out in reality. Instead, when I bring it up, it's almost universal blasting as to why I (and all plow operators) are basically wrong in anything and everything. And when fellow road enthusiasts want to claim plow operators are always wrong, the general public will be even more critical of how the roads are plowed and treated. It's goes back to what you questioned about evidence...I'm giving you first hand evidence of what I see. Get your butt in a truck during a snowstorm. Not sure what more evidence you want, unless you're willing to get a call to go out and plow the roads yourself.


Again, no evidence.  Just anecdotal stories.  Got it.  Not to mention, that this case had nothing to do with any sort of lack of patience since the road was perfectly clear and traffic was moving just fine.  It had to do with a dumbass snowplow driver.

And no thanks on the invite.  No desire to clear snow from the streets.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2022, 09:52:40 AM »

Quote from: SEWIGuy link=topic=30907.msg2701155#msg2701155


Again, no evidence.  Just anecdotal stories.  Got it.  Not to mention, that this case had nothing to do with any sort of lack of patience since the road was perfectly clear and traffic was moving just fine.  It had to do with a dumbass snowplow driver.

And no thanks on the invite.  No desire to clear snow from the streets.

Not sure what evidence you seek, as even news reports would just be stories. First hand evidence isn't good enough, so I guess we'll just have to move on here.

And most people wouldn't want to clear snow. It's a very tough job, and mistakes can have very dire consequences. But when people have no desire to clear snow, they have no desire to hear the techniques, issues & hazards in clearing that snow either.

Regarding that plow operator - as I mentioned, he was entirely at fault here. Just trying to being the bigger picture of plowing operations into focus. With snow on the left shoulder, there's two main options to clear it here...push it as far against the median wall as possible, or get rid of it from the left shoulder. Since many transport departments prefer to fully clear the pavement of snow and ice, the proper way would be to use a plow train to push it to the right, at a slower speed. Traffic doesn't like being stuck behind a plow train, because when the roads are already clear, that leaves motorists stuck going slow on otherwise clear roads. But leaving snow in the left shoulder can be a icy hazard. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
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hbelkins

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2022, 01:50:53 PM »

I'm obviously not a snowplow driver, but I have sat in on numerous meetings and training sessions with Kentucky's KYTC plow drivers.

They go through pretty rigorous training. They're counseled to raise their blades at railroad crossings and to be careful not to spray snow over the sides of overpasses that cross highways (obviously to prevent something similar to what happened in Ohio.)

Our crews will clear outside shoulders to try to prevent melting snow from running back across the road and refreezing, but there's really no practical way to clear inside shoulders unless you use the fleet approach, staggering trucks and pushing it all the way across the multilane road over to the right side. What our crews will typically do is manually clean drains with shovels and just let the snow accumulated on an inside median barrier melt normally.
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JREwing78

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2022, 06:42:42 PM »

Regarding that plow operator - as I mentioned, he was entirely at fault here. Just trying to being the bigger picture of plowing operations into focus. With snow on the left shoulder, there's two main options to clear it here...push it as far against the median wall as possible, or get rid of it from the left shoulder. Since many transport departments prefer to fully clear the pavement of snow and ice, the proper way would be to use a plow train to push it to the right, at a slower speed.

There wasn't enough snow buildup to make the plow train necessary, at least based on what was present on the left shoulder on the EBD side. Pushing it against the median wall would've been fine as long as the blade wasn't positioned to instead strew it into oncoming traffic. They could've certainly come back overnight with a plow train to do a final removal if it became necessary - when it would've been less of a traffic hazard.

Most snowplow drivers have some working brain cells - they tend not to last very long in the job if they don't. This driver clearly was an exception.
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kalvado

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2022, 07:04:42 PM »

Most snowplow drivers have some working brain cells - they tend not to last very long in the job if they don't. This driver clearly was an exception.
What I heard about plow drivers in NY is that there is nowhere close to enough CDL holders to embrace that schedule. As a result, after a major storm people are working nonstop, collecting some crazy overtime. Up to 100 hours a week was claimed to be not unusual.
I know that my brain cells start to malfunction after 20 hours nonstop, and turn off after 30 hours.
So, I can totally understand that the guy probably did his best- but sometimes best isn't good enough.
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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2022, 08:15:07 PM »

Quote from: SEWIGuy link=topic=30907.msg2701155#msg2701155


Again, no evidence.  Just anecdotal stories.  Got it.  Not to mention, that this case had nothing to do with any sort of lack of patience since the road was perfectly clear and traffic was moving just fine.  It had to do with a dumbass snowplow driver.

And no thanks on the invite.  No desire to clear snow from the streets.

Not sure what evidence you seek, as even news reports would just be stories. First hand evidence isn't good enough, so I guess we'll just have to move on here.

And most people wouldn't want to clear snow. It's a very tough job, and mistakes can have very dire consequences. But when people have no desire to clear snow, they have no desire to hear the techniques, issues & hazards in clearing that snow either.

Regarding that plow operator - as I mentioned, he was entirely at fault here. Just trying to being the bigger picture of plowing operations into focus. With snow on the left shoulder, there's two main options to clear it here...push it as far against the median wall as possible, or get rid of it from the left shoulder. Since many transport departments prefer to fully clear the pavement of snow and ice, the proper way would be to use a plow train to push it to the right, at a slower speed. Traffic doesn't like being stuck behind a plow train, because when the roads are already clear, that leaves motorists stuck going slow on otherwise clear roads. But leaving snow in the left shoulder can be a icy hazard. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Anecdotal or not, I tend to agree with you. People are in a bigger hurry, and with the proliferation of trucks, SUV's, and other AWD vehicles, many drivers feel invincible in the snow.

My hats off to you. I appreciate the plow drivers that get out there and make sure the roads are safe.
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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2022, 10:00:19 AM »

It has been awhile, but I recall that ISTHA plows would turn the plow blade to a high angle  (top of blade forward extremely over the bottom part) when scraping inside shoulders. This kept the flotsam from riding high on the blade and taking a large path of ejection over the J barriers. These shoulder trucks were usually followed by a bumper truck with the large impact barrier and strobes.

Way back in the mid to late 70's when the Chicago area got socked, I remember ISTHA using augers to remove snow from the inside shoulders because there was nowhere else for the snow to go.

It was like a road scraping operation, but with snow instead of ground up asphalt. The snow was then trucked over to the nearest retention pond and dumped.

If I ever need to travel during a snow, I'd rather be on ISTHA roads. They do a great job with plowing/salting during storms.
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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2022, 09:04:35 AM »

For those of you on Facebook, the video of this Ohio Turnpike plow mess has been added to a recent MegaDrivingSchool (collection of dashcam driving fails) video.
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Scott5114

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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2022, 05:23:40 PM »

^ I found out about it myself through r/IdiotsInCars on Reddit.
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Re: Ohio Turnpike snowplow damages cars, causes accident
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2022, 08:44:38 PM »

For those of you on Facebook, the video of this Ohio Turnpike plow mess has been added to a recent MegaDrivingSchool (collection of dashcam driving fails) video.

https://youtu.be/cNVZgRyo4bM?t=319
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