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[Flint1979]

If they followed I-96 from Lansing to Brighton, then US-23 from Brighton to the Ohio line, then I-73 would almost completely be routed over existing freeways, save for the 17-mile stretch of US-127 from Ithaca to St. Johns that will need to be upgraded to interstate standards.  The I-96/US-23 interchange would require some work to allow a high-speed movement from I-96 to/from points west to US-23 to/from points south. Likewise the I-96/US-127 interchange in Lansing would require modification to allow high-speed movement from I-96 to/from points east to US-127 to/from points north. Outside of the aforementioned stretch and two interchanges, the amount of work required to install I-73 signs along the route would be minimal.

What would be the point?  Putting a new route over existing freeways does nothing to address any design and capacity deficiencies of those freeways, and fixing those needs to be a priority over slapping up new route markers.  Plus the stretch of US-127 between St. Johns and Ithaca actually does not need to be one of those priorities -- it is currently four-lane divided, has a surprisingly small amount of truck traffic, and has no traffic signals.

It has one traffic signal at the railroad crossing just north of the M-57 interchange but that's all it has so in reality it doesn't but it does have a traffic signal. The signal is just there so buses and other vehicles that are required to stop at railroad crossings don't have to stop on a green light.

[Flint1979]

And is there really a need to upgrade US 23 to a full freeway?

No. Removing driveway access and stoplights should be sufficient. I would also like to see the US-23 routing corrected to follow I-75 and OH-15, with US-223 taking its place between Toledo and Carey (or, hell, an extended OH-420 or something).

I second that emotion. I never understood why ODOT routed US-23 off near Carey for OH-15. The traveling public would be served better with US-23 going to I-75 then concurrent up to I-475. Seems as if US-23 is only there to serve some political interest or ODOT being bound by some legacy reason why the route is the way it is now.

I agree with that and it would eliminate the wrong way concurrency with I-75 between US-20 and I-475 too.

[Flint1979]

Another thing is that US-23 was originally on what is today OH-199. It has no interchange with I-75 though, get off at exit 2 on I-475 and take OH-25 south to Roachton Road east to access OH-199.

[tigerwings]

I figure a politician in Fostoria didn't want to lose their US highway.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

And is there really a need to upgrade US 23 to a full freeway?

No. Removing driveway access and stoplights should be sufficient. I would also like to see the US-23 routing corrected to follow I-75 and OH-15, with US-223 taking its place between Toledo and Carey (or, hell, an extended OH-420 or something).

I second that emotion. I never understood why ODOT routed US-23 off near Carey for OH-15. The traveling public would be served better with US-23 going to I-75 then concurrent up to I-475. Seems as if US-23 is only there to serve some political interest or ODOT being bound by some legacy reason why the route is the way it is now.

Fair enough.


1962 ODOT Road map

[Black-Man]

Columbus-Chillicothe could be worth an upgrade to remove some signals and at-grade intersections, to feed Columbus traffic to US 35. From what I've heard, this segment is one reason why some people prefer US 33 over the US 23/35 routing.

Also side note, is it worth merging this thread into the general I-73 Ohio thread? The highway number is still considered dead in the state.

Going between Charleston and Columbus (having traveled that corridor quite often) Google Maps almost always tells you to take I-77 to US-33. I have taken both ways and it's really close to the same. I think taking I-77 to US-33 and vice versa is slightly faster.

Yeah... I dunno. Columbus to Chillicothe via US23 has turned into a grind, especially around Circleville. Development along US23 has pretty much made any upgrade to this highway almost cost-prohibitive at this point. Dwindling highway dollars better spent on the last 2 interchanges on US33 to Lancaster rather than US23. I assume the super-2 US33 widening in 10+ years will have to be looked at. Just a matter of time w/ all the growth in the Columbus metro area.

[Bitmapped]

Yeah... I dunno. Columbus to Chillicothe via US23 has turned into a grind, especially around Circleville. Development along US23 has pretty much made any upgrade to this highway almost cost-prohibitive at this point. Dwindling highway dollars better spent on the last 2 interchanges on US33 to Lancaster rather than US23. I assume the super-2 US33 widening in 10+ years will have to be looked at. Just a matter of time w/ all the growth in the Columbus metro area.

Traffic counts on the 2-lane part of US 33 between Athens and Darwin are around 9200 AADT nearest Athens, dropping to about 7500 further south. There are plenty of other two-lane corridors in the state with similar or higher traffic counts.

Pomeroy to the WV line is only about 5000 AADT. It won't need any work for the foreseeable future.

[Plutonic Panda]

Please read articles before you post them. That was the Ohio House of Representatives passing a bill calling for ODOT to do that. It hasn't passed the Senate nor been signed by the governor. And in most legislatures (don't know about Ohio), a "resolution" is just an unfunded mandate that expresses the opinion of the Legislature and doesn't have any binding power. Even if it passed ODOT could probably just say "No, we don't think we will" absent a direct order from the Governor.

When I saw this, I was surprised because I did not realize they are still trying to move forward with this proposal!

I’ve been there! See something exciting that should be done but seems impossible because of the current political and societal climate. Then you see a headline about it and jump the gun. Can’t say I haven’t done that lol

[TempoNick]

Some of you guys have a lack of understanding of how politics works. Just because some political appointee from some long gone governor said that I-73 is dead is not like Moses etching the Ten Commandments on a slab of stone. People come and people go, things change.

The fact that the House of Representatives passed a resolution is indeed a huge step. I'm thinking there's a lot of infrastructure money coming from Uncle Sam pretty soon because of the bill Biden signed. That's why you're hearing these discussions again.

The main reason I-73 died in Ohio last time was because of opposition from people in rural Delaware County. I don't think people are going to pay too much attention to them this time because of the way the Columbus area has been growing. Everybody realizes that this is something that we should be proactive about.

Think of it this way. It took 40 years of people talking about global warming and global cooling before government started taking action. But they are taking action. Once the discussion gets started it's hard to stop it.

If Indiana could build i-69, there's no reason we can't build out I-73. I-74 I am much less enthused about. It would be nice, but I don't see it as necessary like i-73.

[SkyPesos]

I’ve been there! See something exciting that should be done but seems impossible because of the current political and societal climate. Then you see a headline about it and jump the gun. Can’t say I haven’t done that lol

I fell for this before too, on some article about the Midwest getting high speed rail 

[TempoNick]

I’ve been there! See something exciting that should be done but seems impossible because of the current political and societal climate. Then you see a headline about it and jump the gun. Can’t say I haven’t done that lol

I fell for this before too, on some article about the Midwest getting high speed rail 

You never know, but I think it's no coincidence that the discussions became public right after Biden signed the infrastructure bill. The real work goes on behind closed doors. Once it gets out in the public, they've already decided what to do.

[TempoNick]

Yeah... I dunno. Columbus to Chillicothe via US23 has turned into a grind, especially around Circleville. Development along US23 has pretty much made any upgrade to this highway almost cost-prohibitive at this point.

The other side of it is for anybody who has sat in a traffic jam on I-77 North in Virginia. Those traffic jams are fairly frequent as trucks try to navigate uphill. I'm guessing there are a lot of trucker douchebags clogging the left lane. It seems like i-73 would relieve I-77 of a lot of traffic.

[TempoNick]

It's not fantasy anymore.

Yeah, I know there will be naysayers here, but if you know how government works, this sounds like it's going to be a done deal. Discussions about a US-23 upgrade don't just come out of nowhere.

I'll save you all some typing ..... "Muh, it's only a resolution. It's not binding." A 75-15 vote means it's going to happen.  "Muh, it's up to TRAC." Trac is only in charge only as long as the Legislative and Executive branches say it is.

https://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/ohio-house-passes-resolution-for-interstate-extension/article_b7aee7c4-adef-5a22-ade4-8c08f5f771b2.html

Relevant quotes from the article:

"The resolution passed the House 75-15 ... The resolution is not a binding act, but it lets legislators make known their feelings on the issue when
budget time comes around, Stephens said."

“Ohio will be receiving federal infrastructure money ...”

You see, how this works is that everything is decided behind closed doors. Once the decision is made, only then does the public get to know what they decided. They make it sound like this just dropped in their laps, but in reality it only just dropped in our laps.

And since we are done with wars for the time being, that means we have more money to spend on ourselves.

I only found out about this on the Ohio Valley board. I don't believe it has been posted here.

[NE2]

http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_134/resolutions/hcr31/AH/02/hcr31_02_AH?format=pdf

[TempoNick]

Also remember: You have congressmen from five or six states lobbying for this, not just one.

MI - 13
OH - 15
WV - 2
VA - 11
NC - 14
SC - 7

Total - 62 Congressmen

[NE2]

Also remember: You have congressmen from five or six states lobbying for this, not just one.

Assuming those states give a shit...

[TempoNick]

Assuming those states give a shit...

I'm pretty sure they do. NC and SC interests were the ones excited about this the most, but no money to make it happen. Looks like now there is going to be a pile of money dumped here so it's gonna happen.

Like I said on the other board, if you've ever sat in a traffic jam going north on I-77 in Virginia, you can see the logic of I-73 to relieve some of the pressure from that road. Likewise with I-95, at least through SC. Very congested, very dangerous, IMO - at least the last time I drove through there. Take some of the traffic off that road to Myrtle Beach.

Besides, If we have money to build $10 million gas stations, schools and housing in Afghanistan, and money to shower all of their politicians with tons of money, we've got the money to build infrastructure here.

[Scott5114]

I’ve been there! See something exciting that should be done but seems impossible because of the current political and societal climate. Then you see a headline about it and jump the gun. Can’t say I haven’t done that lol

I fell for this before too, on some article about the Midwest getting high speed rail 

You never know, but I think it's no coincidence that the discussions became public right after Biden signed the infrastructure bill. The real work goes on behind closed doors. Once it gets out in the public, they've already decided what to do.

I mean, it might be different in Ohio, and you might know better than me...but there's all sorts of crazy shit that goes on in the Oklahoma legislature that's done for political posturing, so certain legislators can claim they stood up for X and stopped Y, and no actual change to the status quo ends up happening.

[TempoNick]

I mean, it might be different in Ohio, and you might know better than me...but there's all sorts of crazy shit that goes on in the Oklahoma legislature that's done for political posturing, so certain legislators can claim they stood up for X and stopped Y, and no actual change to the status quo ends up happening.

That's always a possibility, but I have a feeling the feds are going to give us a freeway a little or no cost. This stimulus money is what's different this time around. And a 75 - 15 vote means there is widespread agreement to use it instead of losing it.

Just follow the chain of events and you'll be a believer. Voinovich first tried to get this done in 1991. Dewine was lieutenant governor then. Who's governor now? That's right, Mike Dewine.

There were two big hang-ups last time around. First of all, people didn't want a toll road. Second of all people in Delaware County didn't want it. Today, Delaware county is half gone with housing and I have a feeling the feds are giving us enough money that we won't need tolls.

Like I said, last fall when just out of the blue they started having "how do we fix US 23" public meetings, I knew something was up. I didn't know that meant dusting off the old i-73 plans, but after this vote, it's looking good.

[Flint1979]

If I-73 in Ohio ever comes to be I-73 will end in Ohio because there is no interest in the state of Michigan for an I-73 freeway. We don't need it following I-75 all the way to Sault Ste. Marie and we most certainly don't need it on the US-223 or US-127 corridors.

[Henry]

Now we just need WV and VA to get their own acts together...

(but especially WV, who is half-doing its own part by rebuilding US 52 into a surface expressway that wouldn't be suitable for an Interstate designation; hopefully Charleston will get the message and make a similar resolution, even if it takes 1,000 years to do just that)

[SkyPesos]

If I-73 in Ohio ever comes to be I-73 will end in Ohio because there is no interest in the state of Michigan for an I-73 freeway. We don't need it following I-75 all the way to Sault Ste. Marie and we most certainly don't need it on the US-223 or US-127 corridors.

I don’t even know how Ohio will route their part of I-73. Looking at the US 23 upgrades posts in the other I-73 Ohio thread, the C1 option is being favored, except it isn’t planned to be a full freeway. And south of Chillicothe, US 23 isn’t a good option to travel to the Carolinas, where traffic will be switching to US 35 (or avoid US 23 all together from Columbus by using US 33), so it’ll pretty much be a dead end in that sense. And it lacks a divided median in some places too.

[TempoNick]

All I know is that I glanced at an article somewhere complaining that this was an example of why earmarks are bad. If I'm not mistaken, earmarks mean you have to use the money for I-73. And that means it's use it or lose it money.

Trump promised I-73 when he was campaigning in South Carolina. And make no mistake, this is Trump's bill in large part.

[TempoNick]

I was reading an article about South Carolina and I'm guessing there is going to be a contribution from both the state and local governments to get this done.

I think this needs to happen anyway and it'll be fun to watch all you interstate sign haters heads explode. 🤣

[Plutonic Panda]

I’ve been there! See something exciting that should be done but seems impossible because of the current political and societal climate. Then you see a headline about it and jump the gun. Can’t say I haven’t done that lol

I fell for this before too, on some article about the Midwest getting high speed rail 

You never know, but I think it's no coincidence that the discussions became public right after Biden signed the infrastructure bill. The real work goes on behind closed doors. Once it gets out in the public, they've already decided what to do.

I mean, it might be different in Ohio, and you might know better than me...but there's all sorts of crazy shit that goes on in the Oklahoma legislature that's done for political posturing, so certain legislators can claim they stood up for X and stopped Y, and no actual change to the status quo ends up happening.

I figure a state like Ohio has a worse backlog of maintenance where this money would be better spent instead of building new roads currently. Still it would be nice if we had real planning again and could at the minimum purchase ROW and begin planning for such corridors. Then get the entire thing shovel ready in a decade or two and do the entire thing at once.