Illinois 53 Extension

[Joe The Dragon]

o'plaine road also needs a interchange as well.

[ET21]

Wasn't I-355 (I-80 to I-290) built as 'Option D' and upgraded to six lanes after only a couple of years?

Mike

Sections are up to 8 lanes now, mainly by the Army Trail toll plaza and between I-88 and I-55

It was late when I posted that, I meant 'I-55 to I-290'.  OTOH, I do see that you replied based on that assumption.



Mike

[Revive 755]

Tollway press release regarding committee recommended funding plan for IL 53 extension

[premier707]

A few things I've learned from people 'in the know'-

The 45mph limit will be enforced by the design of the roadway itself.  Two 12-ft lanes in each direction likely with only an 8-ft right shoulder, if any shoulder at all (think the new Irving Park Rd/IL19 through O'Hare), and either a center median/bioswale or a concrete median with no left shoulder.  The road will also wind and bend to avoid trees and other natural features, and won't use standard geometric design standards for access points, of which there are few.  This was a major concession to Long Grove and helped get them on board.

The 45mph limit is also pretty much the biggest contributor to low road-noise predictions.  Raise the limit to 60mph and the noise levels would be too great to be blocked by a berm, and more importantly, look bad on village planning documents.

The 45mph limit is a ruse to get the damn thing finally started, and I say kudos.  They will eventually design a nice parkway with a 50-60mph limit; it can be done.  IDOT and and the TollBois know this.  By this summer the entire 355/290 corridor from 55 to 90 will be signed 60mph limit, and the Tri-State at IL120 will be 65mph.  Let em build a cheap meandering 4-lane parkway; get it DONE already, and with certain design allowances it can be easily upgraded in the future.

Then the entire corridor, from 94 south to 80, can be given an I-53 designation, or be a southern continuation of new I-41. But that's another story.

[Joe The Dragon]

But how can they do 45 When US12 has 55 parts and that is with cross traffic and lights?

also at lake cook road Will that part till I-290 go to 60 or higher? giveing the road an 55 (more like a real limit of 65-70+) down to 45? in a very fast way? How much will be put into that 45? as seems like LSD traffic goes way over the limits on that road with a lot of cop slack.

[premier707]

About Chicagoland speed limits- the IL State Police have acknowledged they don't pull over drivers going up to 10mph over the posted speed limits.  So the 'real' limits in a 55mph zone is 65mph, 60mph is 70, etc.  This is why the posted limits on suburban tollways will NEVER be 70mph; police would either have to pull over and ticket many more drivers, or tolerate a 'real' 80mph limit, which is unacceptable. 

Look into the Merritt Parkway in CT; this is they type of parkway Lake County envisions.  If built as a parkway (which is still not a done deal) the 'real' limit will be 55mph, slower than an interstate, but that's not what it is.  Parkways ARE slower, but once a parkway exists, it's just a matter of adding shoulders and straightening out a few curves.  A winding 55mph parkway is a lot better than nothing, and we ALL know the low limit won't last.

[I-39]

About Chicagoland speed limits- the IL State Police have acknowledged they don't pull over drivers going up to 10mph over the posted speed limits.  So the 'real' limits in a 55mph zone is 65mph, 60mph is 70, etc.  This is why the posted limits on suburban tollways will NEVER be 70mph; police would either have to pull over and ticket many more drivers, or tolerate a 'real' 80mph limit, which is unacceptable. 

Look into the Merritt Parkway in CT; this is they type of parkway Lake County envisions.  If built as a parkway (which is still not a done deal) the 'real' limit will be 55mph, slower than an interstate, but that's not what it is.  Parkways ARE slower, but once a parkway exists, it's just a matter of adding shoulders and straightening out a few curves.  A winding 55mph parkway is a lot better than nothing, and we ALL know the low limit won't last.

The road needs to be six lanes and built to Interstate standards, anything less will not adequately address the problem. The current parkway design would not allow for a higher speed limit than 45 mph

[3467]

On the last page of the release under About Move Illinois.......Illiana Expressway and other emerging projects"

What might those be?. They aren't in the 2040 plan. Is the Tollway looking at something we have all missed or just keeping its options open on something like the Prairie Parkway

[premier707]

I would guess just keeping options open, but there are a few projects I believe they will pursue; at some point the city of Chicago will sell the ROW in the old Crosstown corridor.  The city could sell the ROW to the toll authority, who could then build a super-2 (really a series of high-speed ramps) with only system interchanges at 90/94, 290, 55, Midway, and 57.  Corridor development costs could be shared with the city, who would likely build a CTA line in the median or elevated over the mainline.  The corridor is 50-100ft wide, enough for 4 lanes, albeit not at current interstate standards.  It could be promoted as a downtown bypass for longer-distance travel and would be a big revenue generator, and likely congestion priced.  This would be a long way off, 2030s at the earliest.

Other possibilities I could see are reconstructing the Palatine Rd. corridor from IL53 to 294 as a toll parkway a'la the proposed 53/120 project.  Or perhaps a re-aligned western IL390 extension through a utility corridor west from its endpoint and south to Stearns Rd across the Fox River towards St. Charles.  The western terminus of IL390 is in flux and currently unknown, a major reason why it was designated a state route and not an interstate (it is also a bureaucratic asspain to convert a free interstate to a tolled one, although it can be done).  The toll authority could also be plotting a Fox Valley tollway.  The recording of the centerline was cancelled in the early 90s, a big reason why the IL390 endpoint remains unclear.  FAP 420 (US12 upgrade/bypass connecting Genoa City, WI to the proposed western terminus of 53/120) is yet another possibility, but was likely hindered by much of the surrounding area receiving federal environmental protection.

But regarding the Illiana, I believe it's DOA.  The energy and money associated with its development will (hopefully) be focused on the 53/120 project.

[premier707]

And within a decade of opening 53/120 WILL be a six-lane interstate; by building a four-lane parkway the tollway will (finally!) get a limited-access road built, and within a few years, Lake County residents (and bondholders) will demand an upgrade, with perhaps a few 45mph 'speed zones' in residential areas.  There is already talk of having a 55mph limit until north of Midlothian Rd.  The 53/120 planners have already acknowledged room for 2 additional lanes will be reserved in the ROW, which makes adding lanes no big deal.  Eventually the entire corridor from 94 to 80 will get a single interstate designation and all will be right with the world.

[3467]

I think you are right on the crosstown and EOE extensions. Palatine is interesting too. I don't see the road to Wisconsin as much as we all like it the Richmond bypass was canned in the EIS process so IL 53 is not likely there But I really think you are spot on ..on the rest
I too think Illiana is gone
I wondered if they would be involved in the downstate freeways Only 4 are under study and 2 Peoria bypass and US 20 have considered tolling. The other 2 Bloomington and Decatur are way way off Also Missouri has considered help from out of state for I-70
Speaking of tolling existing roads ...Tolling IL 53 from 90 north was in the original plan . It wasn't an original interstate so it doesn't need congressional approval just state and FHWA . There are several non original interstates in Illinois like 39 I have to wonder if the Tollway is looking at them. A project like 20 would interest them if they could grab 39. Sorry for the speculation but they sure left the door open and these are all things on present and past wish lists

[premier707]

IL394 is another possibility for tolling maybe.  I also think the toll authority is looking at old IDOT plans from the 90s-00s.  The Palatine Rd upgrade was in those plans, as was a connector between 290 and 55 near the Western Ave corridor. 

Another big project for them is a new 90/290/IL53 interchange in Schaumburg.  It is easily a $1billon project, but some revenues could be realized by tolling new Woodfield-area access from 90.  They could also take over construction of the Cumberland flyover from IDOT and toll drivers coming in off 190 to exit at Cumberland.

[3467]

I recall the Western Ave idea . An IKE Stevenson connector. I hope you are right Need some vision in this state.
There are also the HOT lanes on Stevenson and IKE
Also the west end of Kennedy was not an original chargeable interstate

[mgk920]

I think you are right on the crosstown and EOE extensions. Palatine is interesting too. I don't see the road to Wisconsin as much as we all like it the Richmond bypass was canned in the EIS process so IL 53 is not likely there But I really think you are spot on ..on the rest

Regarding the US 12 Richmond, IL bypass - if and when the need becomes sufficiently acute, the Congressional will will be there (See: 'MN 36/WI 64 Saint Croix River bridge').



Mike

[premier707]

The west end of the Kennedy...sigh.  I drive that thing almost daily.  It's pretty much original and never been reconstructed since it opened in 1960.  IDOT has a plan to add an extra lane in both directions between Cumberland and Harlem and add C/D lanes at Cumberland, but it's not enough.  The Harlem CTA station would have to be demolished and rebuilt.  The huge structure at Milwaukee and the RR has no room for expansion.  It would be billions and billions to bring that thing up to standards.  The only way I could see the tollway doing something on the Kennedy is to somehow depress the el tracks in the median into a new subway, and extend the reversible lanes from 94 to 190/Jane Addams.  Even that would be billions, and the tollway would likely end up tolling the entire reversible segment from Ohio St to O'Hare. 

[Joe The Dragon]

IL394 is another possibility for tolling maybe.  I also think the toll authority is looking at old IDOT plans from the 90s-00s.  The Palatine Rd upgrade was in those plans, as was a connector between 290 and 55 near the Western Ave corridor. 

Another big project for them is a new 90/290/IL53 interchange in Schaumburg.  It is easily a $1billon project, but some revenues could be realized by tolling new Woodfield-area access from 90.  They could also take over construction of the Cumberland flyover from IDOT and toll drivers coming in off 190 to exit at Cumberland.

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

Palatine Rd upgrade can be done as well but a parkway way? when they just need a few more overpasses? I can see more overpasses with out having to knock down any business / homes.

[Joe The Dragon]

The west end of the Kennedy...sigh.  I drive that thing almost daily.  It's pretty much original and never been reconstructed since it opened in 1960.  IDOT has a plan to add an extra lane in both directions between Cumberland and Harlem and add C/D lanes at Cumberland, but it's not enough.  The Harlem CTA station would have to be demolished and rebuilt.  The huge structure at Milwaukee and the RR has no room for expansion.  It would be billions and billions to bring that thing up to standards.  The only way I could see the tollway doing something on the Kennedy is to somehow depress the el tracks in the median into a new subway, and extend the reversible lanes from 94 to 190/Jane Addams.  Even that would be billions, and the tollway would likely end up tolling the entire reversible segment from Ohio St to O'Hare.

They can add aux lanes in some places as well with out needing to mess with the CTA. By Harlem they just need to cut part of the parking lot / storage room? / power room? and remove the loop ramp. Or just have 4 lanes with no shoulder.

[Joe The Dragon]

IL394 is another possibility for tolling maybe.  I also think the toll authority is looking at old IDOT plans from the 90s-00s.  The Palatine Rd upgrade was in those plans, as was a connector between 290 and 55 near the Western Ave corridor. 

Another big project for them is a new 90/290/IL53 interchange in Schaumburg.  It is easily a $1billon project, but some revenues could be realized by tolling new Woodfield-area access from 90.  They could also take over construction of the Cumberland flyover from IDOT and toll drivers coming in off 190 to exit at Cumberland.

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

Palatine Rd upgrade can be done as well but a parkway way? when they just need a few more overpasses? I can see more overpasses with out having to knock down any business / homes.

What about an IL-83 upgrade as well?  Maybe same toll pricing as I-355 / I-294

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10104.msg238730#msg238730

[premier707]

They can add aux lanes in some places as well with out needing to mess with the CTA. By Harlem they just need to cut part of the parking lot / storage room? / power room? and remove the loop ramp. Or just have 4 lanes with no shoulder.

The biggest single problem on the Kennedy is the huge concrete structure at Milwaukee Ave and the Metra.  It is a 3-level complex with 3 lanes in each direction with very narrow shoulders inside the structure.  It is a behemoth and would cost billions to demolish and reconstruct.  If extra lanes were added they'd have to begin/end by Foster and would just move bottlenecks a few miles east.  And at Harlem there is no room for a 4th lane even with no shoulders.  The whole thing is quite a relic.

[premier707]

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

Palatine Rd upgrade can be done as well but a parkway way? when they just need a few more overpasses? I can see more overpasses with out having to knock down any business / homes.

What about an IL-83 upgrade as well?  Maybe same toll pricing as I-355 / I-294

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10104.msg238730#msg238730
[/quote]

They WILL toll IL53 all the way to 90.  The Palatine corridor was studied a few times in the 90s.  There IS room for either a 6-lane interstate, or a 4-lane parkway with a 3-lane access/frontage road.  ROW would be needed, for toll installation and drainage/retention areas.  If the 53/120 parkway goes through I'd expect this to be their next big project.

An IL83 upgrade is another possibility; the corridor from 290 to 90 was studied during the EOE studies; an IL83 upgrade was an alternative to the bypass/490.  I believe Elk Grove put the kibash on that, and would continue to oppose it, although I suppose there would be a market for a tollway going from IL390 south past 290 into Oak Brook.

[Rick Powell]

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

The last I heard from a very good source, none of the Cook County portion of IL-53 will be tolled to help pay for the extension into Lake County.  Any additional revenue streams needed to pay for this would be raised entirely in Lake County.

[Joe The Dragon]

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

Palatine Rd upgrade can be done as well but a parkway way? when they just need a few more overpasses? I can see more overpasses with out having to knock down any business / homes.

What about an IL-83 upgrade as well?  Maybe same toll pricing as I-355 / I-294

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10104.msg238730#msg238730

They WILL toll IL53 all the way to 90.  The Palatine corridor was studied a few times in the 90s.  There IS room for either a 6-lane interstate, or a 4-lane parkway with a 3-lane access/frontage road.  ROW would be needed, for toll installation and drainage/retention areas.  If the 53/120 parkway goes through I'd expect this to be their next big project.

An IL83 upgrade is another possibility; the corridor from 290 to 90 was studied during the EOE studies; an IL83 upgrade was an alternative to the bypass/490.  I believe Elk Grove put the kibash on that, and would continue to oppose it, although I suppose there would be a market for a tollway going from IL390 south past 290 into Oak Brook.
[/quote]

Not just Oak Brook but till 63rd st. Right now the IL-83 / IL-390 interchange is planed with lights. IL-390 to I-290 on IL-83 can be done as with RIRO + a few overpasses + some extend local roads.

bryn mawr ave to Edgewood ave, marshalll rd to forster ave, (are all most linked and would take very little to link up) white pine rd to frontage rd (are all most linked and would take very little to link up) extend frontage rd as well.

The plans for the IL-83 alt was mostly an upper deck (like the west dodge expressway) for I-490 on top of IL-83 any one have a link to them?

[Joe The Dragon]

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

The last I heard from a very good source, none of the Cook County portion of IL-53 will be tolled to help pay for the extension into Lake County.  Any additional revenue streams needed to pay for this would be raised entirely in Lake County.

Well they can also use tolls to widen IL-53 / pay for a new inter change at I-90

[Henry]

That parkway is badly needed. I say BUILD IT NOW!!!

[I-39]

They may toll IL-53 from I-90 as well.

The last I heard from a very good source, none of the Cook County portion of IL-53 will be tolled to help pay for the extension into Lake County.  Any additional revenue streams needed to pay for this would be raised entirely in Lake County.

Well they can also use tolls to widen IL-53 / pay for a new inter change at I-90

They should be rebuilding the I-90/I-290/IL-53 interchange right now as we speak. It absolutely 100% baffles me why this work was not included in the Move Illinois Program.