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Author Topic: I-83 in Baltimore  (Read 5362 times)

AcE_Wolf_287

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I-83 in Baltimore
« on: March 22, 2020, 02:28:59 PM »

I-83 ends at Surface streets, and i was wondering was it supposed to end at I-95 or I-70, or was I-70 and I-83 supposed to end at the same location? i dont see where I-83 couldn't be built to I-95
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2020, 02:35:13 PM »

I-83 ends at Surface streets, and i was wondering was it supposed to end at I-95 or I-70, or was I-70 and I-83 supposed to end at the same location? i dont see where I-83 couldn't be built to I-95
It was supposed to turn east, and through the Canton area of Baltimore City and tie in to I-95 north of the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza.

The remnants of the ramps that were partially built on I-95 could still be seen the last time I checked.
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2020, 07:51:43 PM »

I would like to see Baltimore build a freeway connection from I-395 by Camden Yards to the southern end of I-83.  It's only 1.3 miles from end to end, but a lot of buildings are in the way.  (Probably in the fictional highway category, especially with Maryland's need for another Bay Bridge Crossing)

I think the biggest reason why Baltimore has big city traffic problems but in terms of size and population I see it as more of a mid-sized city is because there is no true North to South or East to West freeway that runs through the city.

You could consider I-95 or I-895 to serve a east-west purpose, but that is more of a SW to NE connector.

One good thing I will mention is that the Light Rail line does run north to south.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2020, 08:32:26 PM »

I would like to see Baltimore build a freeway connection from I-395 by Camden Yards to the southern end of I-83.  It's only 1.3 miles from end to end, but a lot of buildings are in the way.  (Probably in the fictional highway category, especially with Maryland's need for another Bay Bridge Crossing)

I think the biggest reason why Baltimore has big city traffic problems but in terms of size and population I see it as more of a mid-sized city is because there is no true North to South or East to West freeway that runs through the city.

You could consider I-95 or I-895 to serve a east-west purpose, but that is more of a SW to NE connector.

One good thing I will mention is that the Light Rail line does run north to south.

Effectively, the combination of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, North Howard Street and North Avenue serve (imperfectly) as the connection between I-395 and I-83.  Here is one way on Google Maps
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 08:43:15 PM by cpzilliacus »
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2020, 08:50:32 PM »

Effectively, the combination of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, North Howard Street and North Avenue serve (imperfectly) as the connection between I-395 and I-83.  Here is one way on Google Maps
When I-95 was moved from the CBD in the early 1960s, that was the end of any future freeway penetrating the CBD and/or crossing the Inner Harbor.

Building that connection would pass thru the southern CBD and the edge of the Inner Harbor.
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 09:32:33 PM »

I would like to see Baltimore build a freeway connection from I-395 by Camden Yards to the southern end of I-83.  It's only 1.3 miles from end to end, but a lot of buildings are in the way.  (Probably in the fictional highway category, especially with Maryland's need for another Bay Bridge Crossing)

I think the biggest reason why Baltimore has big city traffic problems but in terms of size and population I see it as more of a mid-sized city is because there is no true North to South or East to West freeway that runs through the city.

You could consider I-95 or I-895 to serve a east-west purpose, but that is more of a SW to NE connector.

One good thing I will mention is that the Light Rail line does run north to south.

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2020, 09:33:57 PM »

I would like to see Baltimore build a freeway connection from I-395 by Camden Yards to the southern end of I-83.  It's only 1.3 miles from end to end, but a lot of buildings are in the way.  (Probably in the fictional highway category, especially with Maryland's need for another Bay Bridge Crossing)

I think the biggest reason why Baltimore has big city traffic problems but in terms of size and population I see it as more of a mid-sized city is because there is no true North to South or East to West freeway that runs through the city.

You could consider I-95 or I-895 to serve a east-west purpose, but that is more of a SW to NE connector.

One good thing I will mention is that the Light Rail line does run north to south.

and also by where I-70 is, wasn't that also the location of where I-70 was supposed to end at ?
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dlsterner

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2020, 09:47:43 PM »

I would like to see Baltimore build a freeway connection from I-395 by Camden Yards to the southern end of I-83.  It's only 1.3 miles from end to end, but a lot of buildings are in the way.  (Probably in the fictional highway category, especially with Maryland's need for another Bay Bridge Crossing)

I think the biggest reason why Baltimore has big city traffic problems but in terms of size and population I see it as more of a mid-sized city is because there is no true North to South or East to West freeway that runs through the city.

You could consider I-95 or I-895 to serve a east-west purpose, but that is more of a SW to NE connector.

One good thing I will mention is that the Light Rail line does run north to south.

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,

I'm not sure what the existence of I-97 has to do with the routing of I-83 in Baltimore city.  And while you (and others) may disagree with its number, the road is hardly "pointless" as it provides a high speed connection between Baltimore and Annapolis.

Realize, Baltimore is an old city (as far as North America goes) and really doesn't have a whole lots of room for new freeway corridors (without plowing through existing neighborhoods).

sprjus4

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2020, 09:55:25 PM »

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,
Certainly not "pointless".

Links the state's capitol with the largest city in the state, and serves a large amount of traffic volumes daily, the route bypassed an old, outdated 4-lane arterial that ran through developed areas with slower speed limits, signal infested, etc.

A very valuable construction project in the 1980s, along with widening and extending the US-50 / I-595 freeway east and west of Annapolis.

The number is odd, but asides that, I-97 is -not- "pointless".
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2020, 10:19:45 PM »

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,
Certainly not "pointless".
Links the state's capitol with the largest city in the state, and serves a large amount of traffic volumes daily, the route bypassed an old, outdated 4-lane arterial that ran through developed areas with slower speed limits, signal infested, etc.
Plus Baltimore has one the nation's largest ports.

Ace Wolf just objects to the number, thinks that it should be something like I-995, as a supplementary route to the I-95 system.
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2020, 10:27:50 PM »

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,
Certainly not "pointless".

Links the state's capitol with the largest city in the state, and serves a large amount of traffic volumes daily, the route bypassed an old, outdated 4-lane arterial that ran through developed areas with slower speed limits, signal infested, etc.

A very valuable construction project in the 1980s, along with widening and extending the US-50 / I-595 freeway east and west of Annapolis.

The number is odd, but asides that, I-97 is -not- "pointless".

pointless as in the numbering, its a 17 mile 2di interstate, not as in like there's no need, I believe in the 1950s and 60s I-95 had available 3di spur routes that could've been numbered instead of "i-97"
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2020, 10:32:45 PM »

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,
Certainly not "pointless".

Links the state's capitol with the largest city in the state, and serves a large amount of traffic volumes daily, the route bypassed an old, outdated 4-lane arterial that ran through developed areas with slower speed limits, signal infested, etc.

A very valuable construction project in the 1980s, along with widening and extending the US-50 / I-595 freeway east and west of Annapolis.

The number is odd, but asides that, I-97 is -not- "pointless".

pointless as in the numbering, its a 17 mile 2di interstate, not as in like there's no need, I believe in the 1950s and 60s I-95 had available 3di spur routes that could've been numbered instead of "i-97"
A freeway along the MD-2 corridor between the two cities was proposed in 1956, about half of which was built, though it wasn't until 1979 that I-97's current location and interstate designation was approved. It was constructed throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s. It was not completed until 1997.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 10:35:01 PM by sprjus4 »
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2020, 10:35:14 PM »

you also got to take in consideration of the Pointless I-97 south of Baltimore,
Certainly not "pointless".

Links the state's capitol with the largest city in the state, and serves a large amount of traffic volumes daily, the route bypassed an old, outdated 4-lane arterial that ran through developed areas with slower speed limits, signal infested, etc.

A very valuable construction project in the 1980s, along with widening and extending the US-50 / I-595 freeway east and west of Annapolis.

The number is odd, but asides that, I-97 is -not- "pointless".

pointless as in the numbering, its a 17 mile 2di interstate, not as in like there's no need, I believe in the 1950s and 60s I-95 had available 3di spur routes that could've been numbered instead of "i-97"
I-97 was proposed in 1979 and constructed throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s. It was not completed until 1997.

ok i thought it was planned with most other highways, but I-795 or I-995 would've worked better (my Opinion)
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2020, 10:42:29 PM »

A freeway along the MD-2 corridor between the two cities was proposed in 1956, about half of which was built, though it wasn't until 1979 that I-97's current location and interstate designation was approved. It was constructed throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s. It was not completed until 1997.
The MD-10 Arundel Freeway was planned to run close to MD-2 between I-695 and US-50.

Interstate 97 was the product of the Baltimore-Annapolis Transportation Study (BATS) which started in 1978.  Several corridors were studied.  The first concept would have been to extend the MD-10 Arundel Freeway southward to Annapolis.  The westerly corridor was chosen because it better served not just the local traffic, but the interregional traffic as well.  Also, it provided Interstate funding for the first section of the MD-32 Patuxent Freeway.
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2020, 10:43:40 PM »

A freeway along the MD-2 corridor between the two cities was proposed in 1956, about half of which was built, though it wasn't until 1979 that I-97's current location and interstate designation was approved. It was constructed throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s. It was not completed until 1997.
The MD-10 Arundel Freeway was planned to run close to MD-2 between I-695 and US-50.

Interstate 97 was the product of the Baltimore-Annapolis Transportation Study (BATS) which started in 1978.  Several corridors were studied.  The first concept would have been to extend the MD-10 Arundel Freeway southward to Annapolis.  The westerly corridor was chosen because it better served not just the local traffic, but the interregional traffic as well.  Also, it provided Interstate funding for the first section of the MD-32 Patuxent Freeway.

wasn't MD 32 supposed to be I-197 or I-297??
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2020, 11:08:00 PM »

wasn't MD 32 supposed to be I-197 or I-297??
MD-3 corridor between US-50 and MD-32 -- I-297.
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2020, 11:11:41 PM »

wasn't MD 32 supposed to be I-197 or I-297??
MD-3 corridor between US-50 and MD-32 -- I-297.

ok what about I-197?
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2020, 11:15:34 PM »

wasn't MD 32 supposed to be I-197 or I-297??
MD-3 corridor between US-50 and MD-32 -- I-297.
Wasn't that segment abandoned decades ago?
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2020, 11:16:32 PM »

wasn't MD 32 supposed to be I-197 or I-297??
MD-3 corridor between US-50 and MD-32 -- I-297.
Wasn't that segment abandoned decades ago?

yea
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2020, 11:17:08 PM »

« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 02:54:07 PM by 74/171FAN »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2020, 06:40:24 PM »

The MD-10 Arundel Freeway was planned to run close to MD-2 between I-695 and US-50.

While Anne Arundel County does not have near as much anti-highway NIMBY tradition as some other Maryland jurisdictions, there was opposition to the project to extend MD-10 south along a route parallel to MD-2 in Severna Park and in Arnold.  That opposition helped to bring about what is now known as I-97, which was routed through a largely rural area between U.S. 50/U.S. 301 and the interchange at MD-32 and MD-3. 

I-97 carries plenty of traffic (and needs to be widened to six lanes between U.S. 50/U.S. 301 and MD-3), and has probably diverted some traffic away from MD-2 north of U.S. 50/301.
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2020, 07:34:08 PM »

The MD-10 Arundel Freeway was planned to run close to MD-2 between I-695 and US-50.
While Anne Arundel County does not have near as much anti-highway NIMBY tradition as some other Maryland jurisdictions, there was opposition to the project to extend MD-10 south along a route parallel to MD-2 in Severna Park and in Arnold.  That opposition helped to bring about what is now known as I-97, which was routed through a largely rural area between U.S. 50/U.S. 301 and the interchange at MD-32 and MD-3. 
There would be considerable impacts to wetlands and creeks and waterfront houses on the unbuilt southern half.

Map: https://tinyurl.com/uu8jzg5
The 1966 Maryland Official Highway Map showed the path of the Arundel Freeway, the predecessor to Interstate 97, as slated for completion in 1969.

I-97 carries plenty of traffic (and needs to be widened to six lanes between U.S. 50/U.S. 301 and MD-3), and has probably diverted some traffic away from MD-2 north of U.S. 50/301.
That southern I-97 section is surprisingly busy, as it does need 6 lane widening, but it does serve as part of the Patuxent Freeway as well as part of I-97.
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2020, 11:43:21 AM »

MD 10 was completed in early 1991.  It has done a great job of serving as a local expressway and bypass of Glen Burnie and Pasadena.

MD 32 was completed in the early 1990's as an expressway, except for a small portion thru Fort Meade which was upgraded to an expressway in the early 2000's and a northern extension from Columbia to Clarksville (complete in 1994).

MD 100 was completed from Ellicott City to I-97 in the mid-1990's.  The section east from I-97 to Pasadena was built in the 1970's.

MD 32 and MD 100 serve as a good relief valve for regional traffic that would otherwise have to use the Baltimore Beltway.  As far as highway networks go, the Baltimore Suburbs are definitely better than the DC Suburbs!
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Re: I-83 in Baltimore
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2020, 11:57:28 AM »

As far as highway networks go, the Baltimore Suburbs are definitely better than the DC Suburbs!

Well, the southern suburbs at least...
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