AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules to ensure post quality. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Interstate 11  (Read 381361 times)

kdk

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 121
  • Location: Scottsdale AZ
  • Last Login: May 11, 2022, 04:20:30 PM
Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1575 on: January 10, 2022, 02:43:36 PM »

Quote from: kernals
And as I've said several times, Arizona's growth is reducing water consumption. When a cottonfield is turned into a suburban subdivision, water use goes down. That's a big reason why Arizona uses less water now than it did 70 years ago.

Lake Mead and other reservoirs in that region are still hitting record low levels.

Yeah, but that's not driven by urban water use in Arizona... that's the result of drought and reduced runoff probably caused mostly by climate change.

If Arizona turns its cropland into subdivisions, where is the fresh produce going to come from?  For that matter, a lot of Arizona produce goes to other parts of the country for winter crops.
Iím sure thereís lot of land in Arizona that could be converted to farmland. Eventually we really need to pioneer vertical farming but thatíll come with time.

There is more land in AZ that can be converted, but getting water to it does become an issue in some scenarios.  However most of the produce sold around the country actually comes from the Yuma area.  The Yuma area is slightly warmer than the rest of the state and has some of the most productive farms in the world.  In and around Yuma you don't see farmland being sold for development, it's actually more valuable as a farm than it is as a new housing development.  There isn't any loss of farmland to development in the SW part of the state at all.
Logged

kernals12

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2082
  • Love highways and cars. Hate public transit.

  • Location: Suburban Boston
  • Last Login: Today at 09:35:56 AM
Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1576 on: January 10, 2022, 07:32:06 PM »

Yeesh.  Everything south of I-10 is just a developer pork project rather than one designed to further the transportation needs of regional travelers.  Why not just send it down AZ 85 to I-8 and terminate there?  That would fill in a genuine gap in the interstate system and not put in pointless extra mileage.  And why does it need to overlap or replace I-19?  If I-19 were to be replaced by something, I'd rather it be I-17 so that I-17's numbers would at least (appear to - they'd still be off by ~20 miles) make sense.  Is this some back-door way to force I-19 away from metric?

The purpose of I-11 is to get trucks from Nogales to Las Vegas, while bypassing Phoenix.
That's not what we were told back when I-11 proponents were trying to get traction to get the project started.
I don't think you realize just how much Arizona is projected to grow in the future. If that growth happens in existing cities, it will mean more congestion and less livability. Sprawl means that existing communities aren't faced with the burdens of more people.

But west of the White Tank Mountains?  Who is going to live all the way the hell out there when there is no direct access over that range over than slogging all the way down to I-10?  The most practical path I-11 could have took was down US 60 and AZ 303 to reach I-10.  At least if I-11 went down to I-8 via AZ 85 it would serve as a long haul bypass of Phoenix from the Tucson and border areas around Nogales.

As a matter of fact, they're planning two freeways in that area.

That map is close to 15 years old -- ancient and obsolete.  It's so old that it calls the Gateway Fwy AZ 802 (it's AZ 24), and the Tres Rios Fwy AZ 801 (it will be AZ 30),  With the route of I-11 going so far west, I don't know when or if they'll ever build the Loop 404, which was supposed to be taken over by I-11.

The Gateway Fwy is currently being expanded, but only the ramps and the ground-level pavement, similar to the original construction of AZ 51, 40 years ago.  There's no funding yet to upgrade it to a full freeway.

The Tres Rios is being fast-tracked, from what I've heard, because of the extreme overload on I-10 in the West Valley.  It's still many years away from completion.

The Pinal North/South Fwy has just been approved, but it also is not funded.  There is also funding to complete the Loop 303 as a full freeway in Peoria, including full ramps at I-17.  AZ 85 will also be upgraded to a full freeway between I-10 and I-8, but when it happens is anybody's guess.

Those are the only freeways that are guaranteed to get built in the next decade.  I-11 will eventually get done, but it will remain US 93 for the unforeseeable future, even after 4-laning is complete.

You can throw away every other freeway proposal.  Not gonna happen in my lifetime (and I'm 66).

There's enough planned development up there to justify a freeway connecting I-11 to Loop 303.

And ADOT has issued an EIS for the Pinal North South Freeway

The Great Recession delayed a lot of growth for the Phoenix area, but now it's back on track and they need to prepare for an extra 2-3 million people by the middle of the century. Most of these extra people will be living in the West Valley and Pinal County.

There's not enough water for that many more people.

Yeah there is. Arizona has enough water to sustain a large cotton industry, it has enough water for millions and millions of new residents

i sincerely doubt this, water levels continue to decrease and the drought isn't subsiding. now they are instituting cuts. unless i see evidence otherwise.

The entire city of Tucson uses 1/7th as much water as Arizona's Cotton Farmers
Logged

The Ghostbuster

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3417
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Madison, WI
  • Last Login: May 15, 2022, 07:02:19 PM
Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1577 on: January 11, 2022, 05:17:22 PM »

Water talk in this thread again? I already posted an Off-Topic thread for this kind of discussion (National Water Policies: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29861.50). Unless Interstate 11 is planned to be built solely on water, I suggest water talk go back to the thread I started.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.