Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[PHLBOS]

Based on her comments yesterday on Channel 5 during the quiz portion of On the Record, it appears that MassDOT Secretary Pollock would prefer that the state have milepost-based exits:

As most of us here know; prefer and implement are two different things.

[bob7374]

MassDOT posted a blog entry regarding a public meeting to be held 7/18 regarding the new signage replacement project for the Mid-Cape Highway (US 6):
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/route-6-sign-replacement-public-meeting-scheduled/

I posted it here because a Cape Cod newspaper previously reported that MassDOT backed down and will not be changing the exit numbers with this project, however, there's nothing about that listed in the blog post, just that the new exit signs will be placed where the existing signs are. So, will there now be no overhead signs placed along US 6?

[bob7374]

Don't know if this has any significance to whether MassDOT has made a decision regarding going forward with the milepost exit conversion project, but in the Detail Sheets for the Dedham Street/ I-95 Interchange Reconstruction project, bid winning announcement now postponed until 8/30/16, the exit number assigned for the three new signs to go up for the new Dedham Street off-ramp northbound is 11C, whereas a milepost number would probably be 25. This document was published in December, after the winning bid for the conversion contract was announced.

[bob7374]

I've posted a full report under the US 6 sign plans thread, but at a public meeting tonight (7/18) regarding the US 6 sign replacement contract, MassDOT officials insisted they are still undecided about adopting milepost based numbering. Though it was stated that any new signage on US 6 would use the existing numbers, exit tabs for them are being made long enough to accommodate milepost based numbers if numbers are changed in the future.

[bob7374]

Today, September 12, marks the one year anniversary of MassDOT posting an advertisement for bids on the contract to convert exit numbers to those based on mileposts. They announced a winning bid last November 17 (Liddell Bros.), but nothing has happened since. If MassDOT comments at all about the conversion, they say they are still evaluating it. How long do you think this will continue before a final decision is made?

Meanwhile, the final plans for the US 6/Mid-Cape Highway sign project with the existing exit numbers were approved last week, with what I assume will be an advertisement for bids appearing shortly.

[Rothman]

Can't imagine that there was a big gap between PE and the advertisement, either.  At least MassDOT is on a ten-year clock -- if the project completed PE, then the feds will yank the funding anyway if it doesn't go to construction in 10 years...unless MassDOT has a good reason other than, "We're complete fools when it comes to managing public relations."

[The Ghostbuster]

Have patience. These things don't happen overnight.

[kalvado]

Have patience. These things don't happen overnight.

Well... You didn't see the saga about tourism promotional signs in NY.  Things do happen overnight, believe it or not!

[cl94]

Have patience. These things don't happen overnight.

Well... You didn't see the saga about tourism promotional signs in NY.  Things do happen overnight, believe it or not!

Ditto that. Other than a couple at state lines, they went from nowhere to everywhere in the span of a month.

[vdeane]

Imagine if MA had done their exit number conversion like that.  Would be interesting at least.  I wonder how much worse the reaction from Cape Cod would have been if the new numbers had popped up on US 6 overnight with no warning whatsoever?

[AMLNet49]

I'm sure it will happen at some point. But they just bungled it by essentially saying they'd dive in head-first and deal with the backlash by pinning it on the Feds, then pulling out and not doing it the second a negative word was written about it. When it comes to stuff like this, sometimes throwing the blinders on and taking the plunge is best, but I'm sure MassDOT's full PR campaign will be good.

[The Ghostbuster]

How would I know what's happening in New York? I'm from Wisconsin.

[kalvado]

How would I know what's happening in New York? I'm from Wisconsin.

I don't think there is a good enough published summary - and using strong enough words to give you an idea is a no-no for media anyway.
try reading past month worth of this thread:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1487.2100

[cl94]

How would I know what's happening in New York? I'm from Wisconsin.

I don't think there is a good enough published summary - and using strong enough words to give you an idea is a no-no for media anyway.
try reading past month worth of this thread:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1487.2100

And there has been quite the public outcry Downstate about them: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/07/13/l-i-east-end-tourism-signs/

As a quick primer, New York (which claims to be too broke to even do necessary bridge repairs in places) spend $25 million on signs advertising its tourism app. See why we might be a little mad about that?

[epzik8]

One of the earlier posters said the "former exit" numbers would be posted along Massachusetts highways for "at least two years" following the changeover. Hopefully it won't be any longer than two years. In Pennsylvania, it will be 16 years next month since their switch to mileage-based exit numbers, and there are still "OLD EXIT XX" notations along exit signs on the Schuylkill portion of I-76, along I-83, I think I-80 and even on the Turnpike, and probably other Interstates in Pennsylvania like I-476 and I-376.

[PHLBOS]

One of the earlier posters said the "former exit" numbers would be posted along Massachusetts highways for "at least two years" following the changeover. Hopefully it won't be any longer than two years. In Pennsylvania, it will be 16 years next month since their switch to mileage-based exit numbers, and there are still "OLD EXIT XX" notations along exit signs on the Schuylkill portion of I-76, along I-83, I think I-80 and even on the Turnpike, and probably other Interstates in Pennsylvania like I-476 and I-376.

Portions of I-95 in PA still has those OLD EXIT XX squares as well; especially where the BGS' predate the exit number change.

[mariethefoxy]

One of the earlier posters said the "former exit" numbers would be posted along Massachusetts highways for "at least two years" following the changeover. Hopefully it won't be any longer than two years. In Pennsylvania, it will be 16 years next month since their switch to mileage-based exit numbers, and there are still "OLD EXIT XX" notations along exit signs on the Schuylkill portion of I-76, along I-83, I think I-80 and even on the Turnpike, and probably other Interstates in Pennsylvania like I-476 and I-376.

well for 376 id expect it more since it was extended so even the mileage numbers had to be totally redone.

[spooky]

I suspect it will be just like PA - the "Old Exit XX" panels will remain until someone bothers to take them down, and there won't be any pressing reason to take them down.

[Alps]

I suspect it will be just like PA - the "Old Exit XX" panels will remain until someone bothers to take them down, and there won't be any pressing reason to take them down.

Some states are actually good with it. NJ did "FORMERLY EXIT XX" along I-287 when I-95 was cancelled, and most of those were gone in a few years. A handful did stick around longer.

[roadman]

I suspect it will be just like PA - the "Old Exit XX" panels will remain until someone bothers to take them down, and there won't be any pressing reason to take them down.

When MassDPW re-numbered I-95 and I-93 in the mid-1980s, they put up similar "Formerly Exit XX" signs.  After two years, the majority of them were taken down in a relatively short time frame.  Ideally, you would have removal of those signs be the responsibility of the contractor that did the renumbering.  However, that is not a practical option because it extends the time frame of the contract, which is not desirable for either the contractor or the agency because of payment and administrative reasons.

[jwolfer]

I suspect it will be just like PA - the "Old Exit XX" panels will remain until someone bothers to take them down, and there won't be any pressing reason to take them down.

When MassDPW re-numbered I-95 and I-93 in the mid-1980s, they put up similar "Formerly Exit XX" signs.  After two years, the majority of them were taken down in a relatively short time frame.  Ideally, you would have removal of those signs be the responsibility of the contractor that did the renumbering.  However, that is not a practical option because it extends the time frame of the contract, which is not desirable for either the contractor or the agency because of payment and administrative reasons.

When FL renumbered exits the press release detailed the contractor would remove after 2 years

[The Ghostbuster]

So, none of the exits have been renumbered to mileage-based yet? Does anyone know when the first road will get new exit numbers?

[Beeper1]

Probably not anytime in the foreseeable future.  MassDOT bungled the PR rollout (or lack thereof), compounded by first making it public regarding changing the numbers on US-6 on Cape Cod, where people freak out about any tiny change of anything.

As of now, they are publicly insisting they haven't made up their mind about the conversion, even though the contract for it was issued last year.    Supposedly we will now for sure later this fall when the contract for replacement of the MassPike signs moves forward.

I'd say the odds are 50/50 that Mass backs off the conversion plan entirely.   

[PHLBOS]

Probably not anytime in the foreseeable future.  MassDOT bungled the PR rollout (or lack thereof), compounded by first making it public regarding changing the numbers on US-6 on Cape Cod, where people freak out about any tiny change of anything.

As of now, they are publicly insisting they haven't made up their mind about the conversion, even though the contract for it was issued last year.    Supposedly we will now for sure later this fall when the contract for replacement of the MassPike signs moves forward.

I'd say the odds are 50/50 that Mass backs off the conversion plan entirely.

What MassDOT could do (IMHO, they should've done this from the get-go) is convert one highway first (I-93 would be a good candidate IMHO) and see how it goes and then convert others highways (recommend changing the Interstates first) as time goes on and Bay State drivers gets used to/familiar with the concept.

Unlike the Cape Cod area; many highways in the Greater Boston area have changed once or twice over the decades and I don't recall any loud cries nor protests when most of those occurred.  For the record, US 3 & the Mass Pike (I-90) are the only highways in the Greater Boston area that still have the same interchange numbers that they originally had when the roads were first built.

[Rothman]

Probably not anytime in the foreseeable future.  MassDOT bungled the PR rollout (or lack thereof), compounded by first making it public regarding changing the numbers on US-6 on Cape Cod, where people freak out about any tiny change of anything.
 

<.<

>.>

Half wonder if the "bungling" was intentionally done to kill of a project where the willingness to follow through on it dissipated.

(personal opinion emphasized)