Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[jwolfer]

I just dont understand how Cape Cod folks have the notion thar overhead freeway exit signs detract from historic charm... It's not like they are a legacy from colonial days.. Its a mid 20th century road..

Why not have newer easier to read signs? It would help tourism I would think. Having older outdated signage detracts from an area in my mind... 

LGMS428

Tourists on the Cape act like they've forgotten how to drive.  Why can't the Cape Cod Commission invest in Cuomo signs?

MassDOT does not permit the installation of LOGO service signs on highways east of the Cape Cod Canal because of long standing objections from the Cape Cod Commission.  I could only imagine the reaction of the Commission (picture heads exploding) if they started installing Cuomo-type signs on US 6 and Route 24.

My God its not like giant "South of the Border" Pedro style billboards!

Why not mandate carved wooden sign posts or at the most 1930s style signs

I can appreciate aesthetics. But there are plenty of high end and/or historic resort areas in this country that have modern traffic signs on the main highways.  And it does not detract from the natural beauty of a place, its a freeway.  Get over yourselves Cape Cod

LGMS428

[abqtraveler]

I just dont understand how Cape Cod folks have the notion thar overhead freeway exit signs detract from historic charm... It's not like they are a legacy from colonial days.. Its a mid 20th century road..

Why not have newer easier to read signs? It would help tourism I would think. Having older outdated signage detracts from an area in my mind... 

LGMS428

Tourists on the Cape act like they've forgotten how to drive.  Why can't the Cape Cod Commission invest in Cuomo signs?

MassDOT does not permit the installation of LOGO service signs on highways east of the Cape Cod Canal because of long standing objections from the Cape Cod Commission.  I could only imagine the reaction of the Commission (picture heads exploding) if they started installing Cuomo-type signs on US 6 and Route 24.

My God its not like giant "South of the Border" Pedro style billboards!

Why not mandate carved wooden sign posts or at the most 1930s style signs

I can appreciate aesthetics. But there are plenty of high end and/or historic resort areas in this country that have modern traffic signs on the main highways.  And it does not detract from the natural beauty of a place, its a freeway.  Get over yourselves Cape Cod

LGMS428

I can sum up in two words how resistance to exit renumbering on Cape Cod can halt the project statewide:  The Kennedys.  As I recall, Cape Cod and the Islands is home turf for the Kennedys, and as far as I know, they still run the show in the Commonwealth. 

[PHLBOS]

I can sum up in two words how resistance to exit renumbering on Cape Cod can halt the project statewide:  The Kennedys.  As I recall, Cape Cod and the Islands is home turf for the Kennedys, and as far as I know, they still run the show in the Commonwealth.

At present, there's only one Kennedy serving government in Massachusetts and that's U.S. Rep. Joseph Kennedy III and his district is the 4th Congressional District (see below-graphic):


As one can see, his district does not include Cape Cod.  While it's true that the Cape has been the summer home for many a Kennedy; the current generation of Kennedys today may not have as much clout as the previous generations (Jack, Bobby & Teddy) did.

[SectorZ]

I just dont understand how Cape Cod folks have the notion thar overhead freeway exit signs detract from historic charm... It's not like they are a legacy from colonial days.. Its a mid 20th century road..

Why not have newer easier to read signs? It would help tourism I would think. Having older outdated signage detracts from an area in my mind... 

LGMS428

Tourists on the Cape act like they've forgotten how to drive.  Why can't the Cape Cod Commission invest in Cuomo signs?

MassDOT does not permit the installation of LOGO service signs on highways east of the Cape Cod Canal because of long standing objections from the Cape Cod Commission.  I could only imagine the reaction of the Commission (picture heads exploding) if they started installing Cuomo-type signs on US 6 and Route 24.

My God its not like giant "South of the Border" Pedro style billboards!

Why not mandate carved wooden sign posts or at the most 1930s style signs

I can appreciate aesthetics. But there are plenty of high end and/or historic resort areas in this country that have modern traffic signs on the main highways.  And it does not detract from the natural beauty of a place, its a freeway.  Get over yourselves Cape Cod

LGMS428

I can sum up in two words how resistance to exit renumbering on Cape Cod can halt the project statewide:  The Kennedys.  As I recall, Cape Cod and the Islands is home turf for the Kennedys, and as far as I know, they still run the show in the Commonwealth.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2017/01/cops_3_used_shriver_home_on_cape_cod_to_sell_fentanyl

Still running something on the Cape at least.

[jwolfer]

No longer rum running

LGMS428

[abqtraveler]

I just dont understand how Cape Cod folks have the notion thar overhead freeway exit signs detract from historic charm... It's not like they are a legacy from colonial days.. Its a mid 20th century road..

Why not have newer easier to read signs? It would help tourism I would think. Having older outdated signage detracts from an area in my mind... 

LGMS428

Tourists on the Cape act like they've forgotten how to drive.  Why can't the Cape Cod Commission invest in Cuomo signs?

MassDOT does not permit the installation of LOGO service signs on highways east of the Cape Cod Canal because of long standing objections from the Cape Cod Commission.  I could only imagine the reaction of the Commission (picture heads exploding) if they started installing Cuomo-type signs on US 6 and Route 24.

My God its not like giant "South of the Border" Pedro style billboards!

Why not mandate carved wooden sign posts or at the most 1930s style signs

I can appreciate aesthetics. But there are plenty of high end and/or historic resort areas in this country that have modern traffic signs on the main highways.  And it does not detract from the natural beauty of a place, its a freeway.  Get over yourselves Cape Cod

LGMS428

I can sum up in two words how resistance to exit renumbering on Cape Cod can halt the project statewide:  The Kennedys.  As I recall, Cape Cod and the Islands is home turf for the Kennedys, and as far as I know, they still run the show in the Commonwealth.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2017/01/cops_3_used_shriver_home_on_cape_cod_to_sell_fentanyl

Still running something on the Cape at least.

I rest my case...

[spooky]

Yes, because drug dealers are running fentanyl out of the Shriver home, the Kennedys keep signs ground mounted and sequential on the Cape. Logic seems sound!

[The Ghostbuster]

Now that Massachusetts' exit renumbering plan is suspended indefinitely, it appears the next sequential-to-milepost state will be Rhode Island.

[vdeane]

Last I heard, at this point nobody's even sure if RI's project is still on.  It was supposed to have started already.

[RobbieL2415]

Yes, because drug dealers are running fentanyl out of the Shriver home, the Kennedys keep signs ground mounted and sequential on the Cape. Logic seems sound!

Barnstable County really does have a heroin problem, though.

[jp the roadgeek]

Last I heard, at this point nobody's even sure if RI's project is still on.  It was supposed to have started already.

They're too busy putting up the gantries for truck tolls.  If it were CT, it would need 10 more EIS's before hitting the planning stage.

[bob7374]

Is the contract to replace the signs in the Big Dig tunnels, due to have a winning bid announced in February, still on track? Will that be completed by the end of 2017?

Bids on this project are scheduled to be opened on Tuesday, February 28th.  Note that this is not a complete sign replacement project, but an emergency repair project to change out only those signs that are damaged by vehicles hitting them.  This is the re-advertisement of an earlier project where the sole bid was ultimately rejected due to excessive price.

Looks like the lowest bidder was Liddell Bros. again. Their bid ($796,566) though is still much higher than the MassDOT estimate ($594,108). Will MassDOT accept this and move on, or put the contract out for bids again?

[Alps]

Is the contract to replace the signs in the Big Dig tunnels, due to have a winning bid announced in February, still on track? Will that be completed by the end of 2017?

Bids on this project are scheduled to be opened on Tuesday, February 28th.  Note that this is not a complete sign replacement project, but an emergency repair project to change out only those signs that are damaged by vehicles hitting them.  This is the re-advertisement of an earlier project where the sole bid was ultimately rejected due to excessive price.

Looks like the lowest bidder was Liddell Bros. again. Their bid ($796,566) though is still much higher than the MassDOT estimate ($594,108). Will MassDOT accept this and move on, or put the contract out for bids again?

I wonder if MassDOT or contractor, whoever prepared the estimate, understands that all special equipment needs to be located and rented for this work given the limited overhead space and lack of shoulders for staging.

[Rothman]

Is the contract to replace the signs in the Big Dig tunnels, due to have a winning bid announced in February, still on track? Will that be completed by the end of 2017?

Bids on this project are scheduled to be opened on Tuesday, February 28th.  Note that this is not a complete sign replacement project, but an emergency repair project to change out only those signs that are damaged by vehicles hitting them.  This is the re-advertisement of an earlier project where the sole bid was ultimately rejected due to excessive price.

Looks like the lowest bidder was Liddell Bros. again. Their bid ($796,566) though is still much higher than the MassDOT estimate ($594,108). Will MassDOT accept this and move on, or put the contract out for bids again?

That would still be in the acceptable range in NY, I believe.

[roadman]

Is the contract to replace the signs in the Big Dig tunnels, due to have a winning bid announced in February, still on track? Will that be completed by the end of 2017?

Bids on this project are scheduled to be opened on Tuesday, February 28th.  Note that this is not a complete sign replacement project, but an emergency repair project to change out only those signs that are damaged by vehicles hitting them.  This is the re-advertisement of an earlier project where the sole bid was ultimately rejected due to excessive price.

Looks like the lowest bidder was Liddell Bros. again. Their bid ($796,566) though is still much higher than the MassDOT estimate ($594,108). Will MassDOT accept this and move on, or put the contract out for bids again?

Although Liddell's bid was about 38% higher than the office estimate, it's my understanding that the bid will be accepted, pending a review to verify the accuracy of the bid quantities.  For whatever reason, District 6 seems to have a habit of low-balling estimates for NFA contracts within the Artery/Tunnel complex (old Metropolitan Highway System).

I wonder if MassDOT or contractor, whoever prepared the estimate, understands that all special equipment needs to be located and rented for this work given the limited overhead space and lack of shoulders for staging.

Between March and November, MassDOT routinely has full overnight I-93 tunnel shutdowns for various maintenance and repair activities.  With the exception of emergency sign removal due to vehicle strike, most of these overhead sign replacements are scheduled to happen during these full shutdowns.  As such, the unique requirements under this contract are not so much for special staging equipment, but for special supports and attachment hardware - note that the sign supports are suspended from the tunnel ceiling, and as such are a custom design.

[roadman]

The Massachusetts Legislature is getting into the act again - they've refiled a bill mandating milepost exit numbers on all Interstate highways within Massachusetts.

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H1863

[kalvado]

The Massachusetts Legislature is getting into the act again - they've refiled a bill mandating milepost exit numbers on all Interstate highways within Massachusetts.

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H1863

Did they bother to edit the previous text before submission?

(e) The mileage-based exit numbering system shall be completed on or before January 1, 2017

[PHLBOS]

The Massachusetts Legislature is getting into the act again - they've refiled a bill mandating milepost exit numbers on all Interstate highways within Massachusetts.

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H1863

Did they bother to edit the previous text before submission?

(e) The mileage-based exit numbering system shall be completed on or before January 1, 2017

Somebody did an Oops. 

Do note that this new bill (as written) only involves Interstates.  Should this bill pass & the governor signs it; non-Interstates would not undergo the change.  Maybe such was drafted to appease those who live near/along the Mid-Cape Highway (US 6).

[kalvado]

Do note that this new bill (as written) only involves Interstates.  Should this bill pass & the governor signs it; non-Interstates would not undergo the change.  Maybe such was drafted to appease those who live near/along the Mid-Cape Highway (US 6).

Foot in the door?

[roadman]

Do note that this new bill (as written) only involves Interstates.  Should this bill pass & the governor signs it; non-Interstates would not undergo the change.  Maybe such was drafted to appease those who live near/along the Mid-Cape Highway (US 6).

The original bill, which predated the Mid-Cape Highway controversy, also restricted the re-numbering to Interstate highways only.

[PHLBOS]

The original bill, which predated the Mid-Cape Highway controversy, also restricted the re-numbering to Interstate highways only.

Either way, the re-introduction of the bill sounds like a case of if at first you don't succeed; try, try again.

[bob7374]

The original bill, which predated the Mid-Cape Highway controversy, also restricted the re-numbering to Interstate highways only.

Either way, the re-introduction of the bill sounds like a case of if at first you don't succeed; try, try again.

The last bill died in committee. I don't see this getting any further, unless more legislators sign on.

IMHO if the main reason to adopt milepost base numbering is to make it easier for drivers, especially unfamiliar ones, to judge distances when navigating a state's highways, then just changing numbers on interstates it seems would only lead to more confusion lessening any benefit the conversion might have. If the Cape people really want to keep their numbers, then have the legislation exempt US 6, but allow all other routes to be changed.

[Duke87]

IMHO if the main reason to adopt milepost base numbering is to make it easier for drivers, especially unfamiliar ones, to judge distances when navigating a state's highways

The main reason is to comply with a federal mandate. If not for said mandate this wouldn't even be under consideration.

The real question is, is FHWA going to start playing hardball about this at any point? I'm guessing they certainly won't under the current administration. Indeed it seems as of right now the immediate future holds the MUTCD being left to languish unenforced and unupdated.

[Mergingtraffic]

IMHO if the main reason to adopt milepost base numbering is to make it easier for drivers, especially unfamiliar ones, to judge distances when navigating a state's highways, then just changing numbers on interstates it seems would only lead to more confusion lessening any benefit the conversion might have. If the Cape people really want to keep their numbers, then have the legislation exempt US 6, but allow all other routes to be changed.

I recently drove up I-395 in CT the recently changed exit numbers and because I was unfamiliar with the mileage distance to my exit....it wasn't really that useful to me.  I knew the old exit number but not the exact mileage of my exit.

[machias]

IMHO if the main reason to adopt milepost base numbering is to make it easier for drivers, especially unfamiliar ones, to judge distances when navigating a state's highways, then just changing numbers on interstates it seems would only lead to more confusion lessening any benefit the conversion might have. If the Cape people really want to keep their numbers, then have the legislation exempt US 6, but allow all other routes to be changed.

I recently drove up I-395 in CT the recently changed exit numbers and because I was unfamiliar with the mileage distance to my exit....it wasn't really that useful to me.  I knew the old exit number but not the exact mileage of my exit.

Looking at the closest milepost, knowing the exit number, do a little subtraction and voila! you know how far it is to the exit you're looking for.  Knowing you need to go "3 exits" or whatever could be 2 miles, 10 miles or 50 miles. Check your gas.