[Split from the Michigan Notes thread. -S.]
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 14, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The Mackinac Bridge Authority will be reinstating its Driver Assistance program on November 1st. The program was suspended in March 2020 due to COVID-19. It provides an Authority staffer to drive your car across the bridge, for those who have fears of driving across themselves or who want to concentrate on the scenery instead.
There will now be a $10 fee, increasing to $15 in 2025 (used to be free). There will also be increased fees for transporting pedestrians, bicycles, and snowmobiles (none of which are usually allowed to cross the bridge on their own).
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MBA_assistance_programs_reinstated_Oct_2021__REV_10-14-21_clean_738456_7.pdf
what about adding E-ZPass?
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 14, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The Mackinac Bridge Authority will be reinstating its Driver Assistance program on November 1st. The program was suspended in March 2020 due to COVID-19. It provides an Authority staffer to drive your car across the bridge, for those who have fears of driving across themselves or who want to concentrate on the scenery instead.
There will now be a $10 fee, increasing to $15 in 2025 (used to be free). There will also be increased fees for transporting pedestrians, bicycles, and snowmobiles (none of which are usually allowed to cross the bridge on their own).
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MBA_assistance_programs_reinstated_Oct_2021__REV_10-14-21_clean_738456_7.pdf
what about adding E-ZPass?
Good question makes no sense to me why they don't.
Quote from: dvferyance on October 19, 2021, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 14, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The Mackinac Bridge Authority will be reinstating its Driver Assistance program on November 1st. The program was suspended in March 2020 due to COVID-19. It provides an Authority staffer to drive your car across the bridge, for those who have fears of driving across themselves or who want to concentrate on the scenery instead.
There will now be a $10 fee, increasing to $15 in 2025 (used to be free). There will also be increased fees for transporting pedestrians, bicycles, and snowmobiles (none of which are usually allowed to cross the bridge on their own).
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MBA_assistance_programs_reinstated_Oct_2021__REV_10-14-21_clean_738456_7.pdf
what about adding E-ZPass?
Good question makes no sense to me why they don't.
Because there aren't that many people that cross the bridge that have ez-pass that is one reason.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 06:42:21 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on October 19, 2021, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 14, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The Mackinac Bridge Authority will be reinstating its Driver Assistance program on November 1st. The program was suspended in March 2020 due to COVID-19. It provides an Authority staffer to drive your car across the bridge, for those who have fears of driving across themselves or who want to concentrate on the scenery instead.
There will now be a $10 fee, increasing to $15 in 2025 (used to be free). There will also be increased fees for transporting pedestrians, bicycles, and snowmobiles (none of which are usually allowed to cross the bridge on their own).
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MBA_assistance_programs_reinstated_Oct_2021__REV_10-14-21_clean_738456_7.pdf
what about adding E-ZPass?
Good question makes no sense to me why they don't.
Because there aren't that many people that cross the bridge that have ez-pass that is one reason.
Psst: This was true of all toll facilities before E-Z Pass. And yet, they implemented it. Could do so at the Mac and encourage adoption by drivers.
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2021, 07:00:55 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 06:42:21 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on October 19, 2021, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 14, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The Mackinac Bridge Authority will be reinstating its Driver Assistance program on November 1st. The program was suspended in March 2020 due to COVID-19. It provides an Authority staffer to drive your car across the bridge, for those who have fears of driving across themselves or who want to concentrate on the scenery instead.
There will now be a $10 fee, increasing to $15 in 2025 (used to be free). There will also be increased fees for transporting pedestrians, bicycles, and snowmobiles (none of which are usually allowed to cross the bridge on their own).
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MBA_assistance_programs_reinstated_Oct_2021__REV_10-14-21_clean_738456_7.pdf
what about adding E-ZPass?
Good question makes no sense to me why they don't.
Because there aren't that many people that cross the bridge that have ez-pass that is one reason.
Psst: This was true of all toll facilities before E-Z Pass. And yet, they implemented it. Could do so at the Mac and encourage adoption by drivers.
There aren't any other toll roads in the state. It would be pointless
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2021, 07:00:55 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 06:42:21 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on October 19, 2021, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 14, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The Mackinac Bridge Authority will be reinstating its Driver Assistance program on November 1st. The program was suspended in March 2020 due to COVID-19. It provides an Authority staffer to drive your car across the bridge, for those who have fears of driving across themselves or who want to concentrate on the scenery instead.
There will now be a $10 fee, increasing to $15 in 2025 (used to be free). There will also be increased fees for transporting pedestrians, bicycles, and snowmobiles (none of which are usually allowed to cross the bridge on their own).
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MBA_assistance_programs_reinstated_Oct_2021__REV_10-14-21_clean_738456_7.pdf
what about adding E-ZPass?
Good question makes no sense to me why they don't.
Because there aren't that many people that cross the bridge that have ez-pass that is one reason.
Psst: This was true of all toll facilities before E-Z Pass. And yet, they implemented it. Could do so at the Mac and encourage adoption by drivers.
There aren't any other toll roads in the state. It would be pointless
Not pointless. Between Chicagoland and most of the east coast, Michigan is solidly in E-ZPass territory. I would think a fair number of people crossing the Mackinac Bridge also use E-ZPass toll roads. Maybe not in the same trip, but among all their travels.
Plus, as I have noted elsewhere, every Michigan toll facility (the Mackinac Bridge and the Canadian border crossings) with electronic tolling capability uses its own proprietary system with no compatibility with others. That's a stupid disservice to motorists. How nice if they would cooperate and all use one system, and make it the same system the rest of the Northeast happens to use.
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't really get a lot of traffic that is going to use a toll road that uses ez-pass. It's pretty easy to just have the $4 ready and pay, the wait isn't very long and I cross the bridge at least 6 times a year.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 11:11:31 PM
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't really get a lot of traffic that is going to use a toll road that uses ez-pass. It's pretty easy to just have the $4 ready and pay, the wait isn't very long and I cross the bridge at least 6 times a year.
And ETC would be even more efficient.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 11:11:31 PM
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't really get a lot of traffic that is going to use a toll road that uses ez-pass. It's pretty easy to just have the $4 ready and pay, the wait isn't very long and I cross the bridge at least 6 times a year.
they have there own PASS
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 20, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 11:11:31 PM
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't really get a lot of traffic that is going to use a toll road that uses ez-pass. It's pretty easy to just have the $4 ready and pay, the wait isn't very long and I cross the bridge at least 6 times a year.
they have there own PASS
...which should be made E-ZPass compatible.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 20, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 11:11:31 PM
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't really get a lot of traffic that is going to use a toll road that uses ez-pass. It's pretty easy to just have the $4 ready and pay, the wait isn't very long and I cross the bridge at least 6 times a year.
they have there own PASS
Yeah it's called MacPass. It's not worth it if you don't cross the bridge on a regular basis. It involves a $80 deposit, $7 admin fee and the stickers are $1 each. As for me I live about 180 miles south of the bridge and cross it and come back about 3-4 times a year so it's indeed not worth it for someone like me.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 21, 2021, 07:55:11 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 20, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 20, 2021, 11:11:31 PM
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't really get a lot of traffic that is going to use a toll road that uses ez-pass. It's pretty easy to just have the $4 ready and pay, the wait isn't very long and I cross the bridge at least 6 times a year.
they have there own PASS
Yeah it's called MacPass. It's not worth it if you don't cross the bridge on a regular basis. It involves a $80 deposit, $7 admin fee and the stickers are $1 each. As for me I live about 180 miles south of the bridge and cross it and come back about 3-4 times a year so it's indeed not worth it for someone like me.
Their MacPass costs are telling the real story behind the lack of E-ZPass compatibility rather than lack of demand from motorists...
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Damn I went from complaining about a temporary traffic light on M-52 to talking about E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge.
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Don't worry. It's cheap.
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And
you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 21, 2021, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
What system will the Gordie Howe crossing use once it's opened up, have they said yet? If they were to implement EZ Pass, I'm sure the other downstate crossings would quickly change their tunes.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 21, 2021, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
Forgot about the Tunnel. Still don't need E-ZPass in Michigan.
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 21, 2021, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
Forgot about the Tunnel. Still don't need E-ZPass in Michigan.
I don't understand the adamant opposition. Implementing E-ZPass certainly wouldn't hurt.
Quote from: Rothman on October 21, 2021, 07:46:04 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 21, 2021, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
Forgot about the Tunnel. Still don't need E-ZPass in Michigan.
I don't understand the adamant opposition. Implementing E-ZPass certainly wouldn't hurt.
What are we going to use them for? Buying pasties?
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Then Kentucky doesn't need it either, as they only have two toll bridges, and no toll roads (since the parkways became free). Yet they implemented it, because it's convenient for drivers, much more than trying to find loose change on your car floor.
Quote from: Rothman on October 21, 2021, 07:46:04 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 21, 2021, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
Forgot about the Tunnel. Still don't need E-ZPass in Michigan.
I don't understand the adamant opposition. Implementing E-ZPass certainly wouldn't hurt.
What are we going to use it for? The average person in Michigan doesn't use a toll road on a daily basis so having E-Z Pass in your car really doesn't make much sense. The last time I used a toll road was crossing the Mackinac Bridge about 10 weeks ago and I probably drive more than the average driver in Michigan.
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 21, 2021, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Then Kentucky doesn't need it either, as they only have two toll bridges, and no toll roads (since the parkways became free). Yet they implemented it, because it's convenient for drivers, much more than trying to find loose change on your car floor.
E-Z Pass serves no convenience for a Michigan driver for real.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 22, 2021, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 21, 2021, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Then Kentucky doesn't need it either, as they only have two toll bridges, and no toll roads (since the parkways became free). Yet they implemented it, because it's convenient for drivers, much more than trying to find loose change on your car floor.
E-Z Pass serves no convenience for a Michigan driver for real.
Unless that Michigan driver regularly uses toll roads outside the state and gets an EZ Pass for that purpose. Having an electronic system that isn't EZ Pass compatible is dumb. Hell, I live in Green Bay and have an IPass (fully EZ Pass compatible) even though I only get to Illinois four or five times a year.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 22, 2021, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 21, 2021, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Then Kentucky doesn't need it either, as they only have two toll bridges, and no toll roads (since the parkways became free). Yet they implemented it, because it's convenient for drivers, much more than trying to find loose change on your car floor.
E-Z Pass serves no convenience for a Michigan driver for real.
I see Michigan plates on the Indiana Toll Road and Chicagoland tollways all the time.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2021, 07:34:10 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 22, 2021, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 21, 2021, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Then Kentucky doesn't need it either, as they only have two toll bridges, and no toll roads (since the parkways became free). Yet they implemented it, because it's convenient for drivers, much more than trying to find loose change on your car floor.
E-Z Pass serves no convenience for a Michigan driver for real.
Unless that Michigan driver regularly uses toll roads outside the state and gets an EZ Pass for that purpose. Having an electronic system that isn't EZ Pass compatible is dumb. Hell, I live in Green Bay and have an IPass (fully EZ Pass compatible) even though I only get to Illinois four or five times a year.
My point though is that why get something that we wouldn't really use within the state other than going between the peninsulas which other than people that generally live in the Straits area there isn't too much cross peninsula travel done. The Mackinac Bridge only sees about 11,000 vehicles daily so it's not that big of a deal really. And another thing is shunpiking there wouldn't be a need to have a transponder of any kind if you don't use the toll roads.
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 22, 2021, 07:35:29 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 22, 2021, 06:58:05 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 21, 2021, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
Then Kentucky doesn't need it either, as they only have two toll bridges, and no toll roads (since the parkways became free). Yet they implemented it, because it's convenient for drivers, much more than trying to find loose change on your car floor.
E-Z Pass serves no convenience for a Michigan driver for real.
I see Michigan plates on the Indiana Toll Road and Chicagoland tollways all the time.
Those are areas that aren't that far from the Michigan border though is the only thing I could think of for that. You're probably more likely to see a Michigan plate on the Indiana Toll Road than you are the Pennsylvania Turnpike even though seeing a Michigan plate on the PA Turnpike wouldn't be an uncommon thing.
If you don't use toll roads at all as a MI driver, then your opinion doesn't really matter, since you wouldn't be using the toll bridges and tunnel anyway.
For those that use the Mac and others, I am sure broader compatibility for their ETC systems would be welcome and easy to implement. Just yelling, "But I won't use it because I don't drive on them in any case!" doesn't show harm in its implementation, while the broader compatibility is certainly a benefit.
Doesn't E-Z Pass require extra lanes? And if it doesn't and all traffic is funneled through the same set of toll booths, what's the point?
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 22, 2021, 12:50:02 PM
Doesn't E-Z Pass require extra lanes? And if it doesn't and all traffic is funneled through the same set of toll booths, what's the point?
No place, really, to add those extra lanes, either.
It's just easier to have the four bucks ready, and stop to pay the fare.
Quote from: Rothman on October 22, 2021, 12:45:51 PM
If you don't use toll roads at all as a MI driver, then your opinion doesn't really matter, since you wouldn't be using the toll bridges and tunnel anyway.
For those that use the Mac and others, I am sure broader compatibility for their ETC systems would be welcome and easy to implement. Just yelling, "But I won't use it because I don't drive on them in any case!" doesn't show harm in its implementation, while the broader compatibility is certainly a benefit.
Now I am sure that you don't know what you are talking about. I cross the Mac twenty to thirty times a year, and still don't see the need for EZ-Pass.
Also, there's no such thing as a "toll"
anything here in Michigan. There are a few "fare" bridges. The signs even say so.
Here is the closest thing you will get to an EZ-Pass or whatever in this state. A one-minute stop will not get you to your destination that much sooner. Things are way different up here ... this is not, after all, "Chica-GO Land" ... we're not in a hurry, anyway.
https://www.mackinacbridge.org/macpass/macpass/
Why would it be a bad thing to have it as an option, though? It would be convenient for those who happen to already have an EZ-Pass, and those that don't have one can just stop and pay with cash like they always have.
Quote from: renegade on October 22, 2021, 07:20:57 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on October 22, 2021, 12:50:02 PM
Doesn't E-Z Pass require extra lanes? And if it doesn't and all traffic is funneled through the same set of toll booths, what's the point?
No place, really, to add those extra lanes, either.
It's just easier to have the four bucks ready, and stop to pay the fare.Quote from: Rothman on October 22, 2021, 12:45:51 PM
If you don't use toll roads at all as a MI driver, then your opinion doesn't really matter, since you wouldn't be using the toll bridges and tunnel anyway.
For those that use the Mac and others, I am sure broader compatibility for their ETC systems would be welcome and easy to implement. Just yelling, "But I won't use it because I don't drive on them in any case!" doesn't show harm in its implementation, while the broader compatibility is certainly a benefit.
Now I am sure that you don't know what you are talking about. I cross the Mac twenty to thirty times a year, and still don't see the need for EZ-Pass.
Also, there's no such thing as a "toll" anything here in Michigan. There are a few "fare" bridges. The signs even say so.
Here is the closest thing you will get to an EZ-Pass or whatever in this state. A one-minute stop will not get you to your destination that much sooner. Things are way different up here ... this is not, after all, "Chica-GO Land" ... we're not in a hurry, anyway.
https://www.mackinacbridge.org/macpass/macpass/
There's no need to add extra lanes. Just use the existing MacPass lanes. Really, MacPass should have been brought into E-ZPass when they went from a card to a transponder. We already have a nation-wide interoperability mandate, albeit a toothless one. IMO, that toothlessness of that mandate was a mistake. In fact, I would have gone so far as to make it illegal to create any type of transponder in the country that didn't already exist. States that didn't have a system already should have been forced to join an existing system, not make the interoperability problem worse. There's no reason for it to remain separate, other than price gouging (and really, transponders should be mandated to be free, like NY MTA and Thruway E-ZPass tags are; no non-refundable cost for getting the tag, not account setup fee, no annual/monthly fees, etc.; just the account balance and maybe a refundable tag deposit if one only replenishes manually).
Even ignoring the existing MacPass lanes, I can think of at least one place where E-ZPass is accepted but doesn't have dedicated lanes. Even then, I would say it's more convenient than dealing with cash, especially when you're the only person in the car and don't want to hold up the line digging out your wallet and having them make change (I almost never use cash for anything, though I do carry some on me just in case).
Quote from: rhen_var on October 22, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
Why would it be a bad thing to have it as an option, though? It would be convenient for those who happen to already have an EZ-Pass, and those that don't have one can just stop and pay with cash like they always have.
This was my point. No one has really pointed out the harm caused by accepting E-ZPass.
Quote from: Rothman on October 23, 2021, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: rhen_var on October 22, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
Why would it be a bad thing to have it as an option, though? It would be convenient for those who happen to already have an EZ-Pass, and those that don't have one can just stop and pay with cash like they always have.
This was my point. No one has really pointed out the harm caused by accepting E-ZPass.
Please explain, in as much detail as possible, exactly
why we need this added burden on our infrastructure. The toll is four bucks right now as it stands. In order to install your beloved EZ-pass system, would cause the cash toll to increase more than it already has. I would rather pay $4 to cross the bridge, as opposed to, say, $12.
Bonus points, however, for your not giving in on this. Sure wish you lived here. Clearly, you do not.
:pan:
Quote from: renegade on October 23, 2021, 12:27:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 23, 2021, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: rhen_var on October 22, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
Why would it be a bad thing to have it as an option, though? It would be convenient for those who happen to already have an EZ-Pass, and those that don't have one can just stop and pay with cash like they always have.
This was my point. No one has really pointed out the harm caused by accepting E-ZPass.
Please explain, in as much detail as possible, exactly why we need this added burden on our infrastructure. The toll is four bucks right now as it stands. In order to install your beloved EZ-pass system, would cause the cash toll to increase more than it already has. I would rather pay $4 to cross the bridge, as opposed to, say, $12.
Bonus points, however, for your not giving in on this. Sure wish you lived here. Clearly, you do not.
:pan:
It would ease toll paying from a broader portion of the population, as pointed out by others in the thread.
No, the tolls wouldn't triple. That hasn't anywhere else as a result of the implementation of E-Z Pass.
Quote from: Rothman on October 23, 2021, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 23, 2021, 12:27:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 23, 2021, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: rhen_var on October 22, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
Why would it be a bad thing to have it as an option, though? It would be convenient for those who happen to already have an EZ-Pass, and those that don't have one can just stop and pay with cash like they always have.
This was my point. No one has really pointed out the harm caused by accepting E-ZPass.
Please explain, in as much detail as possible, exactly why we need this added burden on our infrastructure. The toll is four bucks right now as it stands. In order to install your beloved EZ-pass system, would cause the cash toll to increase more than it already has. I would rather pay $4 to cross the bridge, as opposed to, say, $12.
Bonus points, however, for your not giving in on this. Sure wish you lived here. Clearly, you do not.
:pan:
It would ease toll paying from a broader portion of the population, as pointed out by others in the thread.
No, the tolls wouldn't triple. That hasn't anywhere else as a result of the implementation of E-Z Pass.
As others have also pointed out in this thread, we don't have any toll highways in this state, so it would be unnecessary. I really don't believe the "broader portion of the population" are interested in EZ-Pass here in Michigan. If you really need proof of what people think, why don't you go ahead and create a poll asking if people in Michigan want this. My vote will definitely be "no."
And I thought the threads in Fictional Highways were irrational. Nobody is making anyone use a transponder if they don't want to use one, though I'm sure it won't be long before someone claims it's a liberal or conservative plot. If Michigan doesn't want to have ETC, that's up to them. But I will point out Michigan residents travel all over the country including the idiot who was driving their Jeep down El Cielo in Palm Springs going about 32-33 in a 45 mph zone in front of me this morning. So the irrational part makes complete sense to me.
Quote from: renegade on October 23, 2021, 12:27:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 23, 2021, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: rhen_var on October 22, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
Why would it be a bad thing to have it as an option, though? It would be convenient for those who happen to already have an EZ-Pass, and those that don't have one can just stop and pay with cash like they always have.
This was my point. No one has really pointed out the harm caused by accepting E-ZPass.
Please explain, in as much detail as possible, exactly why we need this added burden on our infrastructure. The toll is four bucks right now as it stands. In order to install your beloved EZ-pass system, would cause the cash toll to increase more than it already has. I would rather pay $4 to cross the bridge, as opposed to, say, $12.
Bonus points, however, for your not giving in on this. Sure wish you lived here. Clearly, you do not.
:pan:
I have never heard of anywhere increasing tolls to accept E-ZPass. If the people who own the bridge were even remotely smart, then they would have installed multi-protocol readers when they made MacPass a sticker transponder in order to deal with the inevitable interoperability mandate. From there it's just a matter of bureaucracy. If they were not smart, well, that's on them, but in any case, places have installed E-ZPass readers without raising tolls. In fact, E-ZPass usually gets a discount, because the agency saves money by not handling cash or employing toll collectors for those users.
Your argument against E-ZPass seems to boil down to "we've always done it this way, why should we change". I don't understand why you're so set in your ways that you wouldn't want an E-ZPass despite crossing the bridge several times a year, but if it's because you imagine it would cost as much as MacPass does, then I can assure you, even the greediest agency implementing E-ZPass doesn't charge anywhere close to that much. That or you're imaging that they would have to install highway-speed ORT lanes, but I can assure you, that isn't the case either. Many toll booths that accept E-ZPass do not have that (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3940511,-82.1594857,3a,75y,18.72h,87.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVaAJbUzCIz3Rs9wjq75U3g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
If your location tag is a clue to where you actually are, it would seem that you're as far away from any toll facility as you can possibly be, so maybe you think people from Michigan don't want transponders, but I imagine someone from, say, Detroit probably feels differently.
When MacPass became a sticker transponder would have been the time to implement E-ZPass, just like the Thousand Islands Bridge Authority did when they modernized their commuter program with their toll booth upgrade. They were forward-thinking (though paying a toll there still requires interacting with the booth attendant, even for E-ZPass, for whatever reason). The Mackinac Bridge was not.
Honestly, this discussion reminds me of the discussion in the "Minor Things that Bother You" thread about people/organizations that refuse to upgrade from obsolete tech even when they'd benefit from the upgrade.
Quote from: renegade on October 22, 2021, 07:20:57 PM
Also, there's no such thing as a "toll" anything here in Michigan. There are a few "fare" bridges. The signs even say so.
:-D
That's some delicious semantics on the part of Michigan.
This isn't a tax, it's a temporary refund adjustment. :bigass:
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 25, 2021, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 22, 2021, 07:20:57 PM
Also, there's no such thing as a "toll" anything here in Michigan. There are a few "fare" bridges. The signs even say so.
:-D
That's some delicious semantics on the part of Michigan.
This isn't a tax, it's a temporary refund adjustment. :bigass:
You get it!
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 22, 2021, 06:56:52 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 21, 2021, 07:46:04 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 21, 2021, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: renegade on October 21, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
E-Z Pass is not needed in Michigan. No toll roads here, only four bridges, three of which leave the country. You've already been told that. We shouldn't have to pay for an infrastructure that a small portion of travelers (mostly out-of-staters) will use. No cash? Feel free to drive around the lake.
:wave:
And you've already been told that of five tolled facilities in the state (you forgot the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel), four of them already implement their own proprietary electronic tolling systems, used by plenty of in-staters. If they're going to implement/maintain/upgrade systems anyway, why not use a common system predominate in this part of the country?
Forgot about the Tunnel. Still don't need E-ZPass in Michigan.
I don't understand the adamant opposition. Implementing E-ZPass certainly wouldn't hurt.
What are we going to use it for? The average person in Michigan doesn't use a toll road on a daily basis so having E-Z Pass in your car really doesn't make much sense. The last time I used a toll road was crossing the Mackinac Bridge about 10 weeks ago and I probably drive more than the average driver in Michigan.
But is there a downside to having it in your car? Not sure about other states, but the NY EZ Pass is a great deal. Only $25 and all of that money goes directly into your account (in that sense, it's arguably "free" since it goes toward your toll charges). There's also no monthly payments, and you can have multiple licence plates on one transponder. Even though I've only got to use mine once since COVID closed the border, I don't regret buying it, since there's no monthly fees. It's honestly so much better than the scummy 407 ETR :pan:.
If anything, wouldn't EZ Pass save the state (or whoever operates the toll bridges) money over time? Less people paying cash means less toll booth operators.
Not to mention, not everyone carries cash on them nowadays. It's still a good idea for emergencies, but considering everything I pay for excepts credit or debit card, I sometimes don't have any cash on me.
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter. Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother? Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery. EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter. Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother? Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery. EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
So...poor people who were going to pay the toll anyway are worse off for having to pay the toll that they were going to pay.
Your obsession about this topic has exceeded your logic.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter.
True, but if EZ Pass was added, you could still choose the cash lane and have the same experience as before. Also, someone upthread mentioned the MacPass being $80? That's quite a bit more.
I'm also coming from the perspective of an Ontario resident where the transponder costs $50 plus $24.50 a year, and the tolls are still $0.20-$0.30/km! So EZ Pass seems like a steal in comparison!
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother?
They
could install the high speed EZ Pass lanes, but you're right that they'd probably go the cheap route and have a slower speed setup. Still, not having to wait in a line with people pulling cash out of their pockets is bound to be faster. But also, isn't it nice not to worry about having cash on you?
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
I mean most people driving just want to get where they're going quickly, especially on an interstate. Roadgeeks are a minority in enjoying the drive :D.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
Yeah, and maybe I should've left the conversation dead, but I'm just surprised to hear people so against the idea.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter. Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother? Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery. EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
I don't see the hurry up there either. And the most I've ever really driven over the bridge is about 55, anything over that seems nerve wracking.
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
I created this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28648.0) some time ago to discuss ETC and the problems between systems. It's not even locked. ;-)
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
This is simply false. If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit. It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.
Dying on this hill is very strange.
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false. If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit. It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.
Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those. I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.
I am not the one dying on this hill. I'm only stating my opinion. Others want this to be the hill to die on. I don't give a damn, one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false. If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit. It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.
Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those. I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.
I am not the one dying on this hill. I'm only stating my opinion. Others want this to be the hill to die on. I don't give a damn, one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
EZ-Pass should strongly be considered as an option for paying tolls/fares for the border crossings at least in the Lower Peninsula. I'm sure there are plenty of LP'ers who already have EZ-Pass If a lot of their longer east-west travels are out of state (IL/IN/OH/NY).
The majority of the state may not own an Ez-Pass, but I'd be willing g to bet that those first two rows of counties just North of the OH/IN border make up the majority of Michiganders who DO have one. And with accepting it at the border crossings, it gives the state the opportunity to offer their own version for those east-west travelers who use it mostly for turnpike/toll road/toll way travel and keep the revenue in the state.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't. It would be the bridge operator that would.
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't. It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others.
Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system. If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind.
https://www.mackinacbridge.org/
At-speed toll collection. Ha. Proves my point. You have never been up here. Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed"
toll fare collection. It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides. Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster? How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?
Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.
:ded:
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't. It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others.
Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system. If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind.
https://www.mackinacbridge.org/
At-speed toll collection. Ha. Proves my point. You have never been up here. Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed" toll fare collection. It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides. Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster? How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?
Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.
:ded:
Toll plazas can be reconfigured. It's not about going faster on the bridge - just preventing a stop at the booth.
Can we put an end to this absolutely stupid discussion? Hey if it works in your state, great. Keep in your state! Nobody here wants it or needs it! And even if it was wanted or needed, implementing it would be absolutely impossible because there is absolutely no room to add lanes and/or reconfigure toll booths, etc., especially on the Mackinaw City side. Same with border crossings. No room to do anything and you're going to have to stop for border control anyway.
Quote from: thenetwork on November 05, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false. If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit. It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.
Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those. I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.
I am not the one dying on this hill. I’m only stating my opinion. Others want this to be the hill to die on. I don’t give a damn, one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct “high-speed” lanes, and there’s still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
EZ-Pass should strongly be considered as an option for paying tolls/fares for the border crossings at least in the Lower Peninsula. I'm sure there are plenty of LP'ers who already have EZ-Pass If a lot of their longer east-west travels are out of state (IL/IN/OH/NY).
The majority of the state may not own an Ez-Pass, but I'd be willing g to bet that those first two rows of counties just North of the OH/IN border make up the majority of Michiganders who DO have one. And with accepting it at the border crossings, it gives the state the opportunity to offer their own version for those east-west travelers who use it mostly for turnpike/toll road/toll way travel and keep the revenue in the state.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone in Michigan to use the Indiana Toll Road (with the possible exception of those living within 5 or so miles of the Indiana border and well east of the I-94 border crossing) or The Ohio Turnpike until you get east of Cleveland. Everyone in West Michigan who ventures to the Chicago area use I-94. Everyone going to Ohio uses I-75 or US-23. Ohio 2 is the best route to Sandusky and Cleveland from Toledo. East siders in Michigan going to Fort Wayne or Indianapolis use I-94 to I-69 or pick up US-24 near Toledo. There is almost literally no reason for anyone in Michigan to ever use a toll road until they get west of Chicago, East of Cleveland or...who knows how far south someone has to go rationalize using a toll facility.
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 12:16:00 AM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't. It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others.
Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system. If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind.
https://www.mackinacbridge.org/
At-speed toll collection. Ha. Proves my point. You have never been up here. Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed" toll fare collection. It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides. Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster? How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?
Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.
:ded:
Toll plazas can be reconfigured. It's not about going faster on the bridge - just preventing a stop at the booth.
Stopping at the booth isn't a problem at all on the Mackinac Bridge. The bridge only gets about 11,000 VPD so what exactly is the problem?
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 12:53:52 AM
Can we put an end to this absolutely stupid discussion? Hey if it works in your state, great. Keep in your state! Nobody here wants it or needs it! And even if it was wanted or needed, implementing it would be absolutely impossible because there is absolutely no room to add lanes and/or reconfigure toll booths, etc., especially on the Mackinaw City side. Same with border crossings. No room to do anything and you're going to have to stop for border control anyway.
Well there wouldn't be any toll booths on the Mackinaw City side as it is now but I'm against it anyway because it really doesn't serve a need in our state. We have one toll bridge connecting two parts of the state and it's not like a vast majority of the state travels on the bridge on a daily basis. I probably go up to the U.P. 3-4 times a year and I usually stay up there for a week or two at a time when I go as I have a place in Cedarville about 40 minutes from the bridge. And that is a good point about the border crossings, it's not like it's really going to save you any time when you have to stop at customs anyway.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on November 05, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false. If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit. It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.
Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those. I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.
I am not the one dying on this hill. I'm only stating my opinion. Others want this to be the hill to die on. I don't give a damn, one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
EZ-Pass should strongly be considered as an option for paying tolls/fares for the border crossings at least in the Lower Peninsula. I'm sure there are plenty of LP'ers who already have EZ-Pass If a lot of their longer east-west travels are out of state (IL/IN/OH/NY).
The majority of the state may not own an Ez-Pass, but I'd be willing g to bet that those first two rows of counties just North of the OH/IN border make up the majority of Michiganders who DO have one. And with accepting it at the border crossings, it gives the state the opportunity to offer their own version for those east-west travelers who use it mostly for turnpike/toll road/toll way travel and keep the revenue in the state.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone in Michigan to use the Indiana Toll Road (with the possible exception of those living within 5 or so miles of the Indiana border and well east of the I-94 border crossing) or The Ohio Turnpike until you get east of Cleveland. Everyone in West Michigan who ventures to the Chicago area use I-94. Everyone going to Ohio uses I-75 or US-23. Ohio 2 is the best route to Sandusky and Cleveland from Toledo. East siders in Michigan going to Fort Wayne or Indianapolis use I-94 to I-69 or pick up US-24 near Toledo. There is almost literally no reason for anyone in Michigan to ever use a toll road until they get west of Chicago, East of Cleveland or...who knows how far south someone has to go rationalize using a toll facility.
Right. For east-west travel that far south in the state I would use US-12 or go into Ohio or Indiana and use US-20. OH-2, US-20, US-12, US-30 and others are useful for shunpiking in Indiana and Ohio.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMThere is absolutely no reason for anyone in Michigan to use the Indiana Toll Road (with the possible exception of those living within 5 or so miles of the Indiana border and well east of the I-94 border crossing) or The Ohio Turnpike until you get east of Cleveland
While true that Michigan folks don't *have* to use either roadway, I will say from personal experience making about a dozen trips to Lansing a year that both have their uses. Depending on the time of day, the season, or what traffic cluster**** is on I-94 in Michigan, I'll use the Toll Road about 5 or 6 times a year. It's often not the shortest way, but it beats sitting for hours in traffic or navigating the I-94 ice rink around jackknifing semis after yet another lake-effect snow squall west of Kalamazoo.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMEveryone in West Michigan who ventures to the Chicago area use I-94.
No. Not everyone. May seem ridiculous to you, but I-90 into Chicago is rarely congested. If your destination is downtown or east of the Tri-State, it's frequently worth the toll to hop on the Toll Road. And if there's an incident on the Tri-State, going through downtown Chicago is usually quicker.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMOhio 2 is the best route to Sandusky and Cleveland from Toledo.
No, it's not. I made that drive from Lansing roughly 50 times while my girlfriend lived in Cleveland. OH-2 is a nice change of pace, but it's not the fastest or even the safest way across that part of Ohio. The 2-lane stretch east of Port Clinton is a slog and clogged with traffic. Closer to Oregon, there's a gauntlet of stoplights to fight through. OH-579 cuts a few stoplights, but now it's getting complicated. It's 10 minutes quicker to take the Ohio Turnpike, and less of a mental load.
OH-2 isn't even the quickest non-toll option to Sandusky, per Google Maps. That honor falls to I-280 -> OH-420 -> OH-20 -> US-6, at one mile and one minute shorter, with the only 2-lane stretch the 17 miles of US-6 v.s. nearly 30 for OH-2.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2021, 05:36:30 AMThere is almost literally no reason for anyone in Michigan to ever use a toll road until they get west of Chicago, East of Cleveland or...who knows how far south someone has to go rationalize using a toll facility.
You can shunpike all of the toll roads easily enough. I concede that point. But had EZ-Pass been on the Ohio Turnpike 15 years ago, I would've had a transponder. And despite living in Wisconsin now and having non-toll options to get basically anywhere I need to, I have an EZ-Pass (in no small part because in Illinois it's half-fare v.s. pay-by-plate) and pay the roughly $20 a round trip to Michigan to use the toll roads because they're wayyyyy faster - like 2-3 hours faster one way. If I time my departure correctly and don't have to stop, I can make Lansing in 4 hours flat from Janesville. Not gonna happen without paying tolls.
What does all of this has to do with EZ-Pass on the Mackinac Bridge? Basically nothing. I'm sure whatever incremental increase in tag payments for tolls would happen with it was not enough to matter at all to the Bridge Authority. And outside of special events, throughput at the toll booth is a non-issue. I'm sure larger concerns (or, more accurately, larger expenses) associated with implementing EZ-Pass is why the Bridge Authority doesn't bother. And, to acknowledge Terry's ultimate point, there's no critical mass of EZ-Pass users in Michigan that would compel its use over something else.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2021, 09:00:23 PM
This is simply false. If Michigan residents currently use EZPass, and I am sure a significant number do, it of course is a benefit. It's also a benefit to those travelling to the state from other places where EZ Pass is used.
Dying on this hill is very strange.
I have never, ever seen a vehicle with Michigan plates using one of those. I doubt seriously whether any driver from Michigan has ever even thought about it.
I am not the one dying on this hill. I'm only stating my opinion. Others want this to be the hill to die on. I don't give a damn, one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
You have never seen a Michigan car with an iPass? (Fully EZ Pass compatible) Because I know *I* have.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 06:15:33 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 12:16:00 AM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
Michigan taxpayers wouldn't. It would be the bridge operator that would.
You still seem to think this will not come at the expense of others.
Feel free to contact the Mackinac Bridge Authority and convince them to implement this perfect system. If they agree, and then implement said system, then you will have a better chance to Change My Mind.
https://www.mackinacbridge.org/
At-speed toll collection. Ha. Proves my point. You have never been up here. Unless you have the ability to jump over other vehicles, there's no place to even put another lane for "at-speed" toll fare collection. It's two lanes in each direction, on a causeway, with water on both sides. Would you also suggest double-decking the bridge just so you can go faster? How many millions of dollars would you like us to spend so you won't be inconvenienced?
Without a detailed explanation of exactly why we need this, I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.
:ded:
Toll plazas can be reconfigured. It's not about going faster on the bridge - just preventing a stop at the booth.
Stopping at the booth isn't a problem at all on the Mackinac Bridge. The bridge only gets about 11,000 VPD so what exactly is the problem?
Not stopping is more convenient than stopping.
I am not seeing the harm done by implementing E-ZPass. Those opposed to the idea haven't laid out why it would be bad, outside of a mistaken notion that it would somehow cost MI taxpayers more in taxes.
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
I have lived in Michigan my whole life, I went to MTU and thus lived in the UP for 4 years. I've used the bridge many, many times. I have an EZ-Pass and would have loved if I could have just used that instead because that means I don't have to fumble with my wallet while driving or wait at the gate to get cash, and instead could just drive on through. Your argument that not a single person in the state or who uses the bridge wants this is literally just not true.
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter. Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother? Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery. EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
Even just drviing through a booth at 10 mph is far faster and more convienent than the following:
1. Wait in line behind everyone else.
2. For those of us who don't have passengers to get the money, holding up the line to get out our wallet and money.
3. For those of us who don't use cash often, having to stuff a large amount of change back into our wallet after breaking a 20 (and then later having to find some way to get rid of the change that makes said wallet feel inconveniently thick).
Trust me, I know. When I went off to college, getting E-ZPass was one of the first things I did because I didn't want to be fumbling with cash while driving myself on the Thruway. Family gatherings gave me the ability to compare/contrast the cash experience, as my parents didn't get E-ZPass until the Thruway went AET.
Also, this idea that toll plazas would need to be reconfigured is ludicrous, to the point where I question whether the people against E-ZPass in this thread have ever driven on roads like the Ohio Turnpike, PA Turnpike, NJ Turnpike, or the Thruway prior to AET implementation. They could just switch the MacPass lanes to E-ZPass. Easy peasy. In fact, I would think it would have been easier and cheaper than creating their own proprietary transponder that works nowhere else, which is what they did. Maybe that's why MacPass is more expensive than even the 407's transponder.
Come to think of it, Buffalo was the area in NY (with electronic tolling) with the lowest E-ZPass usage rate, and I want to say that the Ohio Turnpike was the last major toll facility east of the Mississippi (and possibly the whole country) to implement a transponder. Plus the Wabash Bridge was famous for having its own proprietary transponder despite being in E-ZPass territory. Is there some Midwest cultural thing against electronic tolling and interoperability?
I would hope that the Macinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like. That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets). They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).
Do you guys think your lifestyle is threatened or something? Want to use cash? You don't have to get E-ZPass. Why force those of us who would rather use E-ZPass to use cash instead just because you hate change (pun not intended)? I couldn't care less if you want to be a Luddite or not, I just don't want to be inconvenienced as a result.
Honestly, I wish every single toll facility on the continent took E-ZPass (and also that any remaining cash-only or cash-only-below-a-certain-amount places would take credit cards; cash is SO inconvenient, though bill by mail is worse).
Why not just get the Mackinac transponder too if this means so much?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 06, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Why not just get the Mackinac transponder too if this means so much?
1. It doesn't make much sense to get a transponder for a one-off trip, and carrying a bunch of transponders is inconvenient in and of itself. Such is there reason why Congress created an interoperability mandate in the first place.
2. As mentioned before, MacPass has ludicrously high fees to create an account.
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both? The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what? The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :) But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
Quote from: rhen_var on November 06, 2021, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 05:50:58 PM
If yo have ever been across the Mackinac Bridge, you might understand that the speed limit is 45 on it, there is no place to construct "high-speed" lanes, and there's still no need fo EZPass anywhere else in the entire state where it would be useful. Dead argument. Full stop.
The moderators should consider breaking the whole EZPass discussion off into its own thread, then lock it. :bigass:
So...it's bad to keep traffic flowing. Even with low traffic, at-speed toll collection sounds like an improvement rather than a hazard.
Dude. Let it go. I live here. You don't. No one here is interested, otherwise it would already be in place. Your DOT banner is of no meaning to me. If you knew anything at all about what you are talking about, you would provide concrete evidence as to exactly why we need EZPass here, other than to say that it would be beneficial to out-of-$taters. Michigan taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for that.
I have lived in Michigan my whole life, I went to MTU and thus lived in the UP for 4 years. I've used the bridge many, many times. I have an EZ-Pass and would have loved if I could have just used that instead because that means I don't have to fumble with my wallet while driving or wait at the gate to get cash, and instead could just drive on through. Your argument that not a single person in the state or who uses the bridge wants this is literally just not true.
Wow! 1 out of 10 million. We stand corrected.
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:14:54 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter. Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother? Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery. EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
Even just drviing through a booth at 10 mph is far faster and more convienent than the following:
1. Wait in line behind everyone else.
2. For those of us who don't have passengers to get the money, holding up the line to get out our wallet and money.
3. For those of us who don't use cash often, having to stuff a large amount of change back into our wallet after breaking a 20 (and then later having to find some way to get rid of the change that makes said wallet feel inconveniently thick).
Trust me, I know. When I went off to college, getting E-ZPass was one of the first things I did because I didn't want to be fumbling with cash while driving myself on the Thruway. Family gatherings gave me the ability to compare/contrast the cash experience, as my parents didn't get E-ZPass until the Thruway went AET.
Also, this idea that toll plazas would need to be reconfigured is ludicrous, to the point where I question whether the people against E-ZPass in this thread have ever driven on roads like the Ohio Turnpike, PA Turnpike, NJ Turnpike, or the Thruway prior to AET implementation. They could just switch the MacPass lanes to E-ZPass. Easy peasy. In fact, I would think it would have been easier and cheaper than creating their own proprietary transponder that works nowhere else, which is what they did. Maybe that's why MacPass is more expensive than even the 407's transponder.
Come to think of it, Buffalo was the area in NY (with electronic tolling) with the lowest E-ZPass usage rate, and I want to say that the Ohio Turnpike was the last major toll facility east of the Mississippi (and possibly the whole country) to implement a transponder. Plus the Wabash Bridge was famous for having its own proprietary transponder despite being in E-ZPass territory. Is there some Midwest cultural thing against electronic tolling and interoperability?
I would hope that the Macinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like. That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets). They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).
Do you guys think your lifestyle is threatened or something? Want to use cash? You don't have to get E-ZPass. Why force those of us who would rather use E-ZPass to use cash instead just because you hate change (pun not intended)? I couldn't care less if you want to be a Luddite or not, I just don't want to be inconvenienced as a result.
Honestly, I wish every single toll facility on the continent took E-ZPass (and also that any remaining cash-only or cash-only-below-a-certain-amount places would take credit cards; cash is SO inconvenient, though bill by mail is worse).
Well if that's true then you should very well know that during the week there are absolutely no lines at the toll booths and on summer weekends-especially holiday weekends-traffic is going to be backed up for miles and your E-Z Pass isn't going to get you through that parking lot any quicker. In fact, since there is no room to expand or add lanes, a few of the toll booth lanes would have to be dedicated to E-Z Pass, which means fewer facilities to handle the paying of tolls, which means longer waits and even longer backups!
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:19:35 PM
1. It doesn't make much sense to get a transponder for a one-off trip,
The same argument can be made for the majority of Michigan drivers who might travel on an out of state toll road once every 2 or 3 years.
And I forget the exact number, but an incredibly high number of Michigan residents have never been across the Mackinac Bridge. There just doesn't seem to be a demand for EZ Pass.
Quote from: GaryV on November 07, 2021, 06:32:54 AM
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:19:35 PM
1. It doesn't make much sense to get a transponder for a one-off trip,
The same argument can be made for the majority of Michigan drivers who might travel on an out of state toll road once every 2 or 3 years.
And I forget the exact number, but an incredibly high number of Michigan residents have never been across the Mackinac Bridge. There just doesn't seem to be a demand for EZ Pass.
Yeah I bet if I went around the Lower Peninsula especially this part of the peninsula there would be a number of people that would say nope never been across the Mackinac Bridge. There really isn't a demand to be in the U.P. and myself I go up there often because I have a place in Cedarville but when I go I'm in the U.P. for a couple weeks straight and don't cross the bridge again until I'm coming back to Saginaw.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?
Because you are unwilling to accept the obvious answer.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both? The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what? The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :) But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
Mac's already tolled and operated by a semi-public authority. So, that wouldn't happen (i.e., MI would have to set up a whole new authority and given the fact the MBA has already existed with its MacPass, it's totally unlikely that the proposal to toll everything would be made just by adding E-ZPass).
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 04:09:04 AM
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:14:54 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 05, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on November 05, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Only $25
For some, "only $25" is the choice between food and shelter. Surprised this argument has been going on as long as it has.
You're also not going to be able to drive through the tollbooth at 75 mph, so why bother? Stop for ten seconds, hand over four bucks, then drive on and enjoy the scenery. EZPass is only good for people in a hurry.
Even just drviing through a booth at 10 mph is far faster and more convienent than the following:
1. Wait in line behind everyone else.
2. For those of us who don't have passengers to get the money, holding up the line to get out our wallet and money.
3. For those of us who don't use cash often, having to stuff a large amount of change back into our wallet after breaking a 20 (and then later having to find some way to get rid of the change that makes said wallet feel inconveniently thick).
Trust me, I know. When I went off to college, getting E-ZPass was one of the first things I did because I didn't want to be fumbling with cash while driving myself on the Thruway. Family gatherings gave me the ability to compare/contrast the cash experience, as my parents didn't get E-ZPass until the Thruway went AET.
Also, this idea that toll plazas would need to be reconfigured is ludicrous, to the point where I question whether the people against E-ZPass in this thread have ever driven on roads like the Ohio Turnpike, PA Turnpike, NJ Turnpike, or the Thruway prior to AET implementation. They could just switch the MacPass lanes to E-ZPass. Easy peasy. In fact, I would think it would have been easier and cheaper than creating their own proprietary transponder that works nowhere else, which is what they did. Maybe that's why MacPass is more expensive than even the 407's transponder.
Come to think of it, Buffalo was the area in NY (with electronic tolling) with the lowest E-ZPass usage rate, and I want to say that the Ohio Turnpike was the last major toll facility east of the Mississippi (and possibly the whole country) to implement a transponder. Plus the Wabash Bridge was famous for having its own proprietary transponder despite being in E-ZPass territory. Is there some Midwest cultural thing against electronic tolling and interoperability?
I would hope that the Macinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like. That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets). They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).
Do you guys think your lifestyle is threatened or something? Want to use cash? You don't have to get E-ZPass. Why force those of us who would rather use E-ZPass to use cash instead just because you hate change (pun not intended)? I couldn't care less if you want to be a Luddite or not, I just don't want to be inconvenienced as a result.
Honestly, I wish every single toll facility on the continent took E-ZPass (and also that any remaining cash-only or cash-only-below-a-certain-amount places would take credit cards; cash is SO inconvenient, though bill by mail is worse).
Well if that's true then you should very well know that during the week there are absolutely no lines at the toll booths and on summer weekends-especially holiday weekends-traffic is going to be backed up for miles and your E-Z Pass isn't going to get you through that parking lot any quicker. In fact, since there is no room to expand or add lanes, a few of the toll booth lanes would have to be dedicated to E-Z Pass, which means fewer facilities to handle the paying of tolls, which means longer waits and even longer backups!
Eh, just change it over to AET and toll-by-plate. No problem. :D
If they already have a pass of their own, then we are really only talking about keeping the status quo and just increasing transponder compatibility of their system.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 07, 2021, 08:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?
Because you are unwilling to accept the obvious answer.
That is the answer that the Mackinac Bridge Authority is going to give too.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
The only places that has happened is in Pennsylvania (which has failed in the past but the current effort looks to be more successful) and Connecticut (failed, in large part because they wanted to toll commuter traffic passing through on I-684 to significant protest from New York), and Connecticut doesn't have any toll roads, so E-ZPass has nothing to do with it.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 04:09:04 AM
In fact, since there is no room to expand or add lanes, a few of the toll booth lanes would have to be dedicated to E-Z Pass, which means fewer facilities to handle the paying of tolls, which means longer waits and even longer backups!
You guys still haven't explained why they couldn't just convert the existing MacPass lanes to accept E-ZPass.
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:17:38 AM
If they already have a pass of their own, then we are really only talking about keeping the status quo and just increasing transponder compatibility of their system.
They do (https://www.mackinacbridge.org/macpass/macpass/), which is what makes the strong opposition from even forum members to interoperability so hard to understand. Why they went with their own system instead of just joining E-ZPass like the Thousand Islands Bridge Authority did is beyond me. There is literally no downside. They could even have kept the MacPass brand and issued sticker tags for those who didn't want a hard-case transponder, just like RiverLink (https://riverlink.com/tolling-rates/transponders/) down by Louisville.
MacPass is intended for people that cross the bridge on a daily basis.
Quote from: Ryctor2018 on November 07, 2021, 05:18:33 PM
This link: https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151--571899--,00.html has the overview for Michigan's 5 Year Transportation Program. Details on the plan are at this link: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/Five-Year_Transportation_Program_713823_7.pdf
Some highlights:
Rebuilding I-69 from Fenton to M-54 (Dort Highway)
Fixing I-196 in W. Michigan
Rebuild I-96 in Oakland County to include "Flex lanes", similar to US-23 in Washtenaw & Oakland Counties
Work on M-37 in the Traverse City area
Continued work on the I-94/US-31/Bus. I-94 interchange and adjacent roads near Benton Harbor
Work on US-41 in Houghton
Reconstruct I-94 in Jackson County
I just glanced over the document so I don't know if this includes the just passed Infrastructure Plan in Congress
No E-ZPass on the Mac? :D
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:13:34 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both? The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what? The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :) But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
Mac's already tolled and operated by a semi-public authority. So, that wouldn't happen (i.e., MI would have to set up a whole new authority and given the fact the MBA has already existed with its MacPass, it's totally unlikely that the proposal to toll everything would be made just by adding E-ZPass).
It's already being discussed! It would just be adding fuel to the fire.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:29:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:13:34 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both? The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what? The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :) But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
Mac's already tolled and operated by a semi-public authority. So, that wouldn't happen (i.e., MI would have to set up a whole new authority and given the fact the MBA has already existed with its MacPass, it's totally unlikely that the proposal to toll everything would be made just by adding E-ZPass).
It's already being discussed! It would just b adding fuel to the fire.
All the more reason to allow E-ZPass on the Mac, then. If MI is going to toll all roads through some separate initiative, might as well convert everything to be E-ZPass compatible. :)
Quote from: vdeane on November 07, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
The only places that has happened is in Pennsylvania (which has failed in the past but the current effort looks to be more successful) and Connecticut (failed, in large part because they wanted to toll commuter traffic passing through on I-684 to significant protest from New York), and Connecticut doesn't have any toll roads, so E-ZPass has nothing to do with it.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 04:09:04 AM
In fact, since there is no room to expand or add lanes, a few of the toll booth lanes would have to be dedicated to E-Z Pass, which means fewer facilities to handle the paying of tolls, which means longer waits and even longer backups!
You guys still haven't explained why they couldn't just convert the existing MacPass lanes to accept E-ZPass.
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:17:38 AM
If they already have a pass of their own, then we are really only talking about keeping the status quo and just increasing transponder compatibility of their system.
They do (https://www.mackinacbridge.org/macpass/macpass/), which is what makes the strong opposition from even forum members to interoperability so hard to understand. Why they went with their own system instead of just joining E-ZPass like the Thousand Islands Bridge Authority did is beyond me. There is literally no downside. They could even have kept the MacPass brand and issued sticker tags for those who didn't want a hard-case transponder, just like RiverLink (https://riverlink.com/tolling-rates/transponders/) down by Louisville.
Well gee, since you seem to know exactly how our state is run, how all states are run and seem to have a tyrannical nature, why don't you just run our state? You'd probably have to challenge our governor to a duel, but you couldn't possibly do any worse. I just don't think you'd do any better and we're sick of tyrants!
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
But the state capital is in Lansing. Or are the tyrants going to move that too? :)
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
But the state capital is in Lansing. Or are the tyrants going to move that too? :)
Ok...
Look, the bridge is operated by an independent authority that is based in St. Ignace. Therefore, if I wanted to lobby someone for E-ZPass on the bridge, I would go there, not Lansing, despite the capital being in Lansing.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 07, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
The only places that has happened is in Pennsylvania (which has failed in the past but the current effort looks to be more successful) and Connecticut (failed, in large part because they wanted to toll commuter traffic passing through on I-684 to significant protest from New York), and Connecticut doesn't have any toll roads, so E-ZPass has nothing to do with it.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 04:09:04 AM
In fact, since there is no room to expand or add lanes, a few of the toll booth lanes would have to be dedicated to E-Z Pass, which means fewer facilities to handle the paying of tolls, which means longer waits and even longer backups!
You guys still haven't explained why they couldn't just convert the existing MacPass lanes to accept E-ZPass.
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:17:38 AM
If they already have a pass of their own, then we are really only talking about keeping the status quo and just increasing transponder compatibility of their system.
They do (https://www.mackinacbridge.org/macpass/macpass/), which is what makes the strong opposition from even forum members to interoperability so hard to understand. Why they went with their own system instead of just joining E-ZPass like the Thousand Islands Bridge Authority did is beyond me. There is literally no downside. They could even have kept the MacPass brand and issued sticker tags for those who didn't want a hard-case transponder, just like RiverLink (https://riverlink.com/tolling-rates/transponders/) down by Louisville.
Well gee, since you seem to know exactly how our state is run, how all states are run and seem to have a tyrannical nature, why don't you just run our state? You'd probably have to challenge our governor to a duel, but you couldn't possibly do any worse. I just don't think you'd do any better and we're sick of tyrants!
Wow. Wanting interoperability between two different toll transponders is tyrannical? Wow. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if your "couldn't possibly do any worse" comment with respect to your governor comment is a sentiment shared with all the other people on this thread staunchly opposing E-ZPass too. I figure this is just come cultural issue regarding keeping life from becoming "fast paced" and also a way to rail against the "East Coast Elites" or something like that. It's the only theory that makes sense, at least unless someone manages to come up with a reason (that's actually true and not just a misconception or bad assumption) for why interoperability would be actually detrimental to them.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 07, 2021, 08:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?
Because you are unwilling to accept the obvious answer.
That is the answer that the Mackinac Bridge Authority is going to give too.
And you'll both be wrong.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both? The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what? The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :) But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
The state legislature has already tasked MDOT with studying the feasibility of implementing toll roads on freeways, even without E-ZPass on the Mac: https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/07/mdot-to-study-toll-roads-for-michigan.html
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
But the state capital is in Lansing. Or are the tyrants going to move that too? :)
Ok...
Look, the bridge is operated by an independent authority that is based in St. Ignace. Therefore, if I wanted to lobby someone for E-ZPass on the bridge, I would go there, not Lansing, despite the capital being in Lansing.
But you'd have to take over Lansing to impose tolls elsewhere.
Quote from: rhen_var on November 07, 2021, 11:35:56 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 03:56:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2021, 11:14:34 AM
"Not needed" is a pretty low bar. By that standard, very few innovations would be worth it from that standpoint. Again, there is no harm in implementing E-ZPass at the brige and it would be a simple improvement with some level of benefit.
Well hey, while we're at it, why not build a bridge across Lake Michigan between Muskegon and Milwaukee, or Muskegon to Chicago, or both? The cost would be astronomical, the tolls would be astronomical, it would be extremely impractical and absolutely unnecessary, but so what? The important thing is that you could put E-Z Pass on the Wisconsin and/or Illinois sides and these cheeseheads and Illinoisites would get orgasms about paying tolls because they don't actually feel like they're paying a toll with E-Z Pass. :) But in all seriousness, there is a big drawback to implementing E-Z Pass on The Mackinac Bridge: Once that happens and E-Z Pass is implemented, Our state government, especially under its present leadership would say "well since we now have E-Z Pass let's start tolling every major freeway."
The state legislature has already tasked MDOT with studying the feasibility of implementing toll roads on freeways, even without E-ZPass on the Mac: https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/07/mdot-to-study-toll-roads-for-michigan.html
Yes, I'm well aware of that. No need to encourage the tyrants further.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 07, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 07, 2021, 08:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?
Because you are unwilling to accept the obvious answer.
That is the answer that the Mackinac Bridge Authority is going to give too.
And you'll both be wrong.
Yeah the Authority that runs the Mackinac Bridge is going to be wrong on what transponders they want to use at their fare plaza. I don't believe that for a second. They have said very few of their customers use EZ pass so what benefit is there?
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 08, 2021, 05:01:33 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 07, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 07, 2021, 08:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 07, 2021, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 06, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2021, 09:25:21 PM
It is not that big of a deal to stop, pay and go really. It's pretty well known that it costs $4 to cross the bridge so you can have your money ready well ahead of time. Surveys have been done and have shown that very few Mackinac Bridge customers use other transponders. Why would they use a transponder that very few of their customers have?
This question has been answered multiple times. Why don't you read the last few pages and report back.
Then why is the discussion still going on?
Because you are unwilling to accept the obvious answer.
That is the answer that the Mackinac Bridge Authority is going to give too.
And you'll both be wrong.
Yeah the Authority that runs the Mackinac Bridge is going to be wrong on what transponders they want to use at their fare plaza. I don't believe that for a second. They have said very few of their customers use EZ pass so what benefit is there?
Of course very few of their customers use E-ZPass if they don't have the compatibility...
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 08, 2021, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
But the state capital is in Lansing. Or are the tyrants going to move that too? :)
Ok...
Look, the bridge is operated by an independent authority that is based in St. Ignace. Therefore, if I wanted to lobby someone for E-ZPass on the bridge, I would go there, not Lansing, despite the capital being in Lansing.
But you'd have to take over Lansing to impose tolls elsewhere.
Perhaps you need to read the quote chain again.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 08, 2021, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
But the state capital is in Lansing. Or are the tyrants going to move that too? :)
Ok...
Look, the bridge is operated by an independent authority that is based in St. Ignace. Therefore, if I wanted to lobby someone for E-ZPass on the bridge, I would go there, not Lansing, despite the capital being in Lansing.
But you'd have to take over Lansing to impose tolls elsewhere.
I don't get where you got this idea that Rothman and I want to toll all the roads in Michigan by having the Mackinac Bridge be interoperable with E-ZPass? What we've been saying is that whether the bridge takes E-ZPass or not doesn't affect whether Michigan would toll anything else or not. If they're already proposing it, then clearly not having E-ZPass on the bridge isn't acting as an impediment.
For the record, I'm not exactly a fan of tolling everything. The interstates were intended to be free. If I had my way, tolls would only be allowed on major bridges/tunnels (like the Mackinac) or as dynamically priced HOT lanes with a requirement for parallel free lanes (exception for I-66 inside the Beltway, as it was never open to SOVs during rush hour due to the special arrangement that allowed it to be built at all and the conversion to HOT lanes didn't actually take away any free capacity). Remaining toll roads (like the Thruway) would then be required to become free once all current bonds are paid off, allowing the interstate system to finally fulfill Ike's vision of a US Autobahn.
Quote from: renegade on November 08, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
The trolls are never going to give up on this. They are either bots or bullies. They aren't going to give in or give up until the moderators lock this thread. It's ultimately what they want.
Wow. First "tyrants" and now "trolls". What noun starting with T will you guys think of next? Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that what we want is exactly what we say we want and nothing more - to move closer to meeting the interoperability mandate Congress placed in MAP-21? We were supposed to have it so that every transponder would work on ever road with electronic tolling across the country by October 2016. If only Congress had put in place penalties for non-compliance...
That said, mods feel free to split this discussion into its own thread.
Quote from: vdeane on November 08, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
Quote from: renegade on November 08, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
The trolls are never going to give up on this. They are either bots or bullies. They aren't going to give in or give up until the moderators lock this thread. It's ultimately what they want.
Wow. First "tyrants" and now "trolls". What noun starting with T will you guys think of next? Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that what we want is exactly what we say we want and nothing more - to move closer to meeting the interoperability mandate Congress placed in MAP-21? We were supposed to have it so that every transponder would work on ever road with electronic tolling across the country by October 2016. If only Congress had put in place penalties for non-compliance...
That said, mods feel free to split this discussion into its own thread.
Up to now, I haven't jumped into this fray... mostly because I didn't necessarily think it was worthy of much discussion. But let me just add my 2¢ because:
a) I'm in my fifth decade of being a Michigander,
b) I've walked the Mackinac Bridge every year ('cept '20) since 1992,
c) I
am MichiganHighways.org,
d) The Mackinac Bridge is one of the two bridges I've "claimed" (note quotes... for "legal" reasons) as being "my" bridges... the Cut River Bridge is "my" other bridge... hands off!,
e) I can recite all four seasons' of Mark Howell's recorded bridge messages along with him (AND the high-wind warning, too!) while listening to AM 530 approaching the Bridge, and
f) I've been to the top of the South Tower of the Mackinac Bridge. If that doesn't give me a little stree... er... bridge cred, I don't know what will. Anyway, here's those 2¢:
- I cross the Mackinac Bridge multiple times every year. As often as I can find a "reason" to do so.
- I possess an I-PASS from the ISTHA, compatible with E-ZPASS.
- I have absolutely no problem forking over the four singles every time I cross the bridge, even though I have an E-ZPASS-compatible I-PASS already in my vehicle. Honestly, I think I'm a typical Michigander in that regard, like some of the other Michiganders on this forum that some of the out-of-staters can't seem to comprehend. Whereas I wouldn't probably actively campaign against the implementation of an E-ZPASS compatible transponder system at the Straits, I'm perfectly fine if it never happens. And I'm one who can't wait for additional toll roads in (at least) the eastern half of the continent to be added, ESPECIALLY the 407ETR around Greater Toronto... not that I'd use it a lot, but it would make my life a lot easier than getting billed in the mail from toll-by-plate four months later.
Anyway, that's me. And probably a lot of us Michiganders, too. Hence, the reason why things are the way they are. Thankfully, not every part of this country is
exactly like every other part in every way yet. Some places are unique and have their quirks. This may well be one of ours. If it is, maybe people can respect it, as illogical as it might be? Just throwin' it out there.
I can see not caring about E-ZPass being implemented, but the anger directed towards it that has been shown on here by other users is still beyond some sort of real reason to me.
Quote from: Rothman on November 09, 2021, 06:52:50 AM
I can see not caring about E-ZPass being implemented, but the anger directed towards it that has been shown on here by other users is still beyond some sort of real reason to me.
I'm not angry about it and I really don't care one way or the other. The MBA operates how it operates and I'd never want to do much of their work in my life so I'm not going to complain about them not accepting EZ pass. I've thought about getting it a few times myself but then I figured it wasn't worth it because where I generally travel there aren't any toll roads and in areas where there are toll roads I shunpike the very rare time that I'm going to be on one just isn't worth having it. As I've said I cross the bridge probably 6-8 times a year and I know the toll is $4 and I know exactly what to do so having EZ pass just isn't worth it and I'm sure that there are several Michiganians that feel the same way.
What about the people who go cross into Canada from Michigan and re-enter the US in/near Buffalo (and the reverse direction)? That alone should justify E-ZPass for the border crossings.
Thread split, please.
Quote from: 1 on November 09, 2021, 10:01:10 AM
What about the people who go cross into Canada from Michigan and re-enter the US in/near Buffalo (and the reverse direction)? That alone should justify E-ZPass for the border crossings.
Thread split, please.
The Mackinac Bridge does not go into Canada.
If it did, you would still have to stop at Customs. No EZPass is going to avoid that.
Quote from: Rothman on November 09, 2021, 06:52:50 AM
I can see not caring about E-ZPass being implemented, but the anger directed towards it that has been shown on here by other users is still beyond some sort of real reason to me.
No anger is directed toward it ... it's just stupid to put it there. You must be madly in love with me, because you won't leave it alone. (Sorry, I've been happily married for over 35 years. I am old enough to identify BS when I see it.) Why not go pester the 'Alaska Notes' thread and tell them how desperately it's needed it there?
Quote from: vdeane on November 08, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
Wow. First "tyrants" and now "trolls". What noun starting with T will you guys think of next? Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that what we want is exactly what we say we want and nothing more - to move closer to meeting the interoperability mandate Congress placed in MAP-21? We were supposed to have it so that every transponder would work on ever road with electronic tolling across the country by October 2016. If only Congress had put in place penalties for non-compliance...
That said, mods feel free to split this discussion into its own thread.
I never used the word 'tyrant.' 'Troll' is a word used to describe anyone who lives 'below the bridge.' If you knew anything at all about the Bridge, you would already know that. What you want is what YOU want, whether anyone else does or not. Textbook definition of a bully.
"We're here from the Government and we're here to help." I'm old enough to know exactly what that means, too.
Mods: thread lock please ... it's now irretrievable. Thanks, guys, for ruining it for others.
[Your request has been declined. -S.]
This is basically a thread that can't be locked – it's a general state thread. There are several options available (thread split, delete the last few pages, moderator note not to post anything more related to the topic), but it's useful to have a catch-all state-specific thread.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 09, 2021, 08:22:05 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 09, 2021, 06:52:50 AM
I can see not caring about E-ZPass being implemented, but the anger directed towards it that has been shown on here by other users is still beyond some sort of real reason to me.
I'm not angry about it and I really don't care one way or the other. The MBA operates how it operates and I'd never want to do much of their work in my life so I'm not going to complain about them not accepting EZ pass. I've thought about getting it a few times myself but then I figured it wasn't worth it because where I generally travel there aren't any toll roads and in areas where there are toll roads I shunpike the very rare time that I'm going to be on one just isn't worth having it. As I've said I cross the bridge probably 6-8 times a year and I know the toll is $4 and I know exactly what to do so having EZ pass just isn't worth it and I'm sure that there are several Michiganians that feel the same way.
I honestly never cared much back when I thought Michigan was a no-transponder state. Cash-only toll facilities exist in NY too. It's annoying, but it's not like they're hindering interoperability or anything. What gets me is that the bridge upgraded their commuter pass into a sticker transponder recently and yet didn't bother to become interoperable, despite there being an interoperability mandate in federal law.
At least they still take cash. I can't stand places with all-electronic tolling that isn't interoperable with E-ZPass as I don't do bill by mail (don't trust it and don't like the fees), so those are mandatory shunpike situations for me.
Quote from: renegade on November 09, 2021, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 09, 2021, 10:01:10 AM
What about the people who go cross into Canada from Michigan and re-enter the US in/near Buffalo (and the reverse direction)? That alone should justify E-ZPass for the border crossings.
Thread split, please.
The Mackinac Bridge does not go into Canada.
If it did, you would still have to stop at Customs. No EZPass is going to avoid that.
I believe he was talking about the Blue Water Bridge, Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, Ambassador Bridge, and DRIC in that comment. That said, I-75 (which the Mackinac Bridge is on) does go to Canada, though not a part of Canada on that corridor.
Quote
Quote from: Rothman on November 09, 2021, 06:52:50 AM
I can see not caring about E-ZPass being implemented, but the anger directed towards it that has been shown on here by other users is still beyond some sort of real reason to me.
No anger is directed toward it ... it's just stupid to put it there. You must be madly in love with me, because you won't leave it alone. (Sorry, I've been happily married for over 35 years. I am old enough to identify BS when I see it.) Why not go pester the 'Alaska Notes' thread and tell them how desperately it's needed it there?
1. Does Alaska even have toll roads?
2. Even if they do, I've never heard of them having their own transponder (then again, I thought the same of Michigan until recently).
3. Alaska is far from E-ZPass territory, whereas Michigan is as close to surrounded as a border state can be (Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois all use it, Wisconsin doesn't have tolls as far as I'm aware, and Minnesota is joining soon).
Quote
Quote from: vdeane on November 08, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
Wow. First "tyrants" and now "trolls". What noun starting with T will you guys think of next? Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that what we want is exactly what we say we want and nothing more - to move closer to meeting the interoperability mandate Congress placed in MAP-21? We were supposed to have it so that every transponder would work on ever road with electronic tolling across the country by October 2016. If only Congress had put in place penalties for non-compliance...
That said, mods feel free to split this discussion into its own thread.
I never used the word 'tyrant.' 'Troll' is a word used to describe anyone who lives 'below the bridge.' If you knew anything at all about the Bridge, you would already know that. What you want is what YOU want, whether anyone else does or not. Textbook definition of a bully.
"We're here from the Government and we're here to help." I'm old enough to know exactly what that means, too.
Mods: thread lock please ... it's now irretrievable. Thanks, guys, for ruining it for others.
You didn't use "tyrant", but Terry Shea did.
I guess you'd call Congress a bully too, for legislating the interoperability mandate in the first place.
The mods are free to split the interoperability discussion into its own thread. No need for a lock, on this thread or a split thread for that matter. Just because you'd personally rather not discuss something doesn't mean a thread should be locked.
The "troll" and "local vs. out of state (or even lower peninsula)" sentiments remind me of a comment I read on Reddit where someone mentioned that in the subreddits for urban areas, if someone posted that they were moving to an area, they were quickly welcomed with replies giving recommendations on where to live and things to do. In rural areas, however, a similar thread would be met with replies ranging from "don't you try to change the area, you better like it the way it is" and "it's your responsibility to 'fit in'" to "get out and go back where you came from". I guess the rural nature of the UP has led to some "why should we change something that we feel works fine to accommodate people from outside the area?" sentiment.
As someone who is a former Michigan resident I can definitely say there is not a need nor really a local desire for EZpass on the Mackinac Bridge. The traffic count over the bridge is so low that it isn't a big deal to deal with the toll facilities. I do think a lot of you guys who live in the northeast tend to over estimate how much the rest of the country actually cares about EZpass and it's inter-agency operability. I wouldn't be opposed to an EZpass lane on the Mackinac Bridge but it does seem like a lot of effort to make happen just to placate users from a different region of the country.
Quote from: vdeane on November 09, 2021, 02:07:50 PM
1. Does Alaska even have toll roads?
2. Even if they do, I've never heard of them having their own transponder (then again, I thought the same of Michigan until
1. Yes, the Whittier Tunnel is tolled
2. No, they don't have a transponder. The nature of the tunnel makes it such that you will very probably need to stop and wait for some amount of time before being able to enter, anyway.
Quote from: vdeane on November 09, 2021, 02:07:50 PM
You didn't use "tyrant", but Terry Shea did.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 07, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 07, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Ok. You out of staters are right. Put E-Z Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. Take over Lansing and make it happen. Then venture up to the straits and do the work yourself. Hey, here's an idea. While you're there, why not build a twin bridge that could be E-Z Pass only? :)
No need to go to Lansing...the MBA's in St. Ignace...know thy own state...
But the state capital is in Lansing. Or are the tyrants going to move that too? :)
Which part of the smiley faces did you not understand? Or are you going to try to ban humor from taking place in our state too? :) SMH!
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Okay. You guys have convinced me.
We need EZPASS in Michigan, and we need it now! Sign me up!
Next time I go to the neighborhood "gentlemen's club," instead of tucking a couple singles into the dancer's garter, I'll just hold up my EZPass. It'll go over well. I'll keep you informed (in
great detail) how that goes.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Especially since, when they made MacPass a sticker transponder recently, I would think they could have just purchased multi-protocol readers and gone through whatever bureaucratic steps necessary to make everything talk to each other. Or maybe they did/are and don't want to announce anything until it's ready. Who knows. I just don't get why some people seem to be so against interoperability. It's not like the transponder-only lanes (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.8486444,-84.7237447,3a,30.2y,183.59h,93.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRXse-px3gSoLGWP7yEvDrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) aren't already there. It's not as if this hobby forum has anything to do with official government policy, even.
I don't think anyone is against E-ZPass on the Mac. The question of "is it necessary" doesn't necessarily mean opposition.
The debate seems to boil down to one side saying "no E-ZPass is not a big deal" and the other side saying "yes, it is in fact a big deal".
Of course it wouldn't hurt anyone or anything to install it. But I also don't see the big deal either. It's one toll booth on one bridge in a part of the country that takes time and effort to get to.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 10, 2021, 12:59:06 PM
I don't think anyone is against E-ZPass on the Mac. The question of "is it necessary" doesn't necessarily mean opposition.
The debate seems to boil down to one side saying "no E-ZPass is not a big deal" and the other side saying "yes, it is in fact a big deal".
Of course it wouldn't hurt anyone or anything to install it. But I also don't see the big deal either. It's one toll booth on one bridge in a part of the country that takes time and effort to get to.
I've been saying that for weeks, but my pleas have fallen upon deaf ears time and time again.
Anyone who is somehow "inconvenienced" by the lack of EZPass is certainly free to drive
around Lake Michigan if they don't want to roll the window down and hand four bucks out of it.
At 11,000 vehicles per day, I would be surprised if five percent of drivers would use it. 550 vehicles per day would probably not justify the cost, no matter how low that would be. Installation, operation and maintenance would most likely not be free..
I also like how those who insist we need this have not bothered to reach out to the MBA to see what they think. Someone threw MAP-21 into the argument. Since the Bridge is self-sustaining and not Federally funded in any way, that will certainly not apply here. Congress has no say in any operations anywhere between Jamet St. in Mackinaw City and US-2 in St. Ignace.
I wish discussion of this whole topic to cease. Those who want this should move here and run for office. I can pretty much tell which side of the ballot they would actually be on.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Even the idea of tolls in Michigan in general is nonpolitical. The toll roads study bill was sponsored by a Republican, passed the Republican-controlled state house and senate, was supported by Democrats, and signed into law by the Democratic governor. It seems to me that it's not a partisan issue in any way. I don't understand why people are trying to make it out to be.
Quote from: rhen_var on November 10, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Even the idea of tolls in Michigan in general is nonpolitical. The toll roads study bill was sponsored by a Republican, passed the Republican-controlled state house and senate, was supported by Democrats, and signed into law by the Democratic governor. It seems to me that it's not a partisan issue in any way. I don't understand why people are trying to make it out to be.
I don't understand why we're still discussing this stupid idea that is totally out of all of our hands.
Quote from: renegade on November 10, 2021, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Okay. You guys have convinced me. We need EZPASS in Michigan, and we need it now! Sign me up!
Next time I go to the neighborhood "gentlemen's club," instead of tucking a couple singles into the dancer's garter, I'll just hold up my EZPass. It'll go over well. I'll keep you informed (in great detail) how that goes.
Please do that, and keep us posted.
I'll take my EZPass transponder to Don's Dogmeat Diner, and use it for a big order of rotisserie retriever, with a side order of siracha springer spaniel. For dessert, I'll have a mouthwatering terrine of terrier. I'll let you know if the dogmeat diner accepts EZPass, and I'll also provide updates about how delicious my food order is.
Quote from: Terry Shea on November 10, 2021, 10:42:02 PM
Quote from: rhen_var on November 10, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:32 AM
While the debate appears to be Michigan vs. non-Michigan, I'm seeing an ideological split instead. SEWIGuy, Rothman, vdeane, and I are all on the left, while it appears that our Michigan members are all on the right (by coincidence).
And yet, simply adding E-ZPass compatibility to an already tolled facility would seem to be a non-political topic in terms of ideology.
Even the idea of tolls in Michigan in general is nonpolitical. The toll roads study bill was sponsored by a Republican, passed the Republican-controlled state house and senate, was supported by Democrats, and signed into law by the Democratic governor. It seems to me that it's not a partisan issue in any way. I don't understand why people are trying to make it out to be.
I don't understand why we're still discussing this stupid idea that is totally out of all of our hands.
We're roadgeeks. Discussing our opinions on things is how we'd like things to be is what we do. If discussion was limited to convincing decision makers to change things, this forum would be dead, because it's a hobby forum, not a government comment board reviewed by decision makers.
And quite frankly, there is a world of difference between "well, maybe it would have been something to do when they made MacPass a transponder, but they didn't, and I doubt they will because it's not a pressing issue and people can just pay cash" and "that's a stupid idea and I hate it and you can take your E-ZPass elsewhere" - especially when combined with ridiculous arguments like talking about reconstructing toll barriers or not wanting to be forced to get one, neither of which anyone proposed, here or elsewhere. If you guys had said the former, the discussion would have likely ended and been left in the past. But it wasn't. Instead we got a very strong reaction backed with arguments about reconstructing toll barriers to add ORT lanes and forcing you to get an E-ZPass even though you want to pay cash, neither of which anyone was talking about until the people on your side of the argument brought them up.
Got the below from the Bridge Director at the Mackinac Bridge. Copied and pasted it right out of the e-mail I got, so the typos and other issues are all their own. Looks like they've done a study or two on what tags people already have in their cars and have determined it's not worth the $1m to make the system compatible with E-ZPass.
That said, what's interesting to me is their insistence that there isn't an "E-ZPass hub." That's not true, since there is the Interagency Group (IAG) that facilitates the coordination between the member agencies/authorities, so perhaps their estimate that more staff would need to be required is bloated.
"Thank you for your question. We have done toll studies here where we read what other kinds of toll tags our customers have. We have found that only approximately 5% of our patrons have any other kind of toll tag. Many of these patrons also have MacPass if they spend much time in our area, like our summer residents. To integrate with EzPass, we would be required to have daily communications with the 22 EzPass agencies that maintain EzPass accounts. There is no one EzPass hub. We would have to know which of the 54 million EzPass tags were going on the Mackinac Bridge and whether their accounts were good or not each day. There is also the toll reconciliation between the 22 agencies of the usage for the month. The cost to integrate ourselves with the Ipass or EZpass or similar and add the back office staff to process the transactions would be prohibitive for this small amount of usage. This integration is estimated at $.75 to $1.25 Million and 1-2 additional staff positions. Right now, the EZPass system does not use the sticker transponder system that MacPass uses. They use an older system of transponder boxes that are more expensive. MacPass would be taking a step backwards to convert to the EZpass transponder boxes instead of our current sticker transponders. We will continue to assess it for future toll enhancement projects.
Hope this is helpful for you.
Sincerely,
Kim
Kim Nowack, PE
Bridge Director
Mackinac Bridge Authority
'Spread Hope, Get Vaccinated, Save Michigan Lives'"
That's about the response I expected. It at least puts some numbers into our assumptions about the economics of making EZ-Pass work. I'm not surprised EZ-Pass holders were in the single digits.
I'd be curious to see if this situation changes down the road. At some point, EZ-Pass will likely implement tags over transponders.
SM-G991U
Got a short follow-up:
"There is talk of an Ezpass hub in the future so the agencies don't all have to share their account data in 22 directions every day. And talk of modernizing the EZpass transponders to the newer technology. We are quite far from the nearest EZpass facility too."
So, there is hope. :D
they list I-pass like it's own thing?
also ez-pass does not take tags?? Don't they take FL sticker tags now?
Odd about the no central hub thing. If so, that explains why transponder discrimination is so rampant, but also what then does the IAG actually
do? I wonder if building a central hub would give the IAG leverage to finally begin rolling back the tide on transponder discrimination.
I'd hardly call sticker transponders "more advanced" or "better" than hard case transponders. Newer, sure, but "more advanced" and/or "better"? Show me a sticker that can be transferred between multiple cars if you own more than one, or get a new one, or need a new windshield. They also can't do that thing that hard case transponders do where the entry plaza is written onto the transponder's memory and then transmitted back at the exit plaza, though it seems like AET systems eschew doing that. Maybe that's why virtual ticket system tolls on the Thruway take forever to process.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on November 15, 2021, 05:27:14 PM
they list I-pass like it's own thing?
also ez-pass does not take tags?? Don't they take FL sticker tags now?
Nope. The sticker systems use multi-protocol readers to accept both types of transponders. The older systems in the Northeast and Midwest tend to lack those. Florida, North Carolina, and Kentucky all issue had case transponders (for a fairly decent fee) for those who want to use their SunPass/QuickPass/RiverLink outside of their native territory (though SunPass and QuickPass stickers are compatible with each other and Peach Pass, which will be joining next year). Which, come to think of it, might be a reason MacPass isn't interoperable - they might not be interested in issuing hard case transponders, though the idea that they couldn't use stickers any more isn't true. Given their situation and this thread, I'm not sure there would be much demand for them, though; they could theoretically offer them for a decent fee to appease the IAG knowing they'd almost never have to actually do it in practice.
I have no idea if a River Link would work in Florida or if a SunPass would work in Kentucky. It's never been said that it can be done, so I'm guessing it can't. Might be part of that no central hub thing.
Quote from: JREwing78 on November 15, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
At some point, EZ-Pass will likely implement tags over transponders.
SM-G991U
and how does an HOV switch work with that?
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on November 15, 2021, 10:04:08 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on November 15, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
At some point, EZ-Pass will likely implement tags over transponders.
SM-G991U
and how does an HOV switch work with that?
Good point. I forgot about E-ZPass Flex when I was talking about sticker vs. hard-case tags.
Tolling will begin at the renovated Liberty Bridge in Bay City, Michigan in early 2023. All electronic tolling (AET) will be utilized. The system will be interoperable with E-ZPass transponders. This will be the first toll facility in Michigan to accept E-ZPass for tolling.
See: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/tolling/
Will it be interoperable with whatever the Mackinac Bridge uses? If not, this is basically Indiana all over again... (at least the Mackinac Bridge still accepts cash)
Quote from: vdeane on November 11, 2022, 08:18:45 PM
Will it be interoperable with whatever the Mackinac Bridge uses? If not, this is basically Indiana all over again... (at least the Mackinac Bridge still accepts cash)
No, they don't have any plans as of right now to accept EZ-Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. If you are talking about MacPass, then yes, they will be accepted on these two bridges in Bay City.
Oh God not this again.
Quote from: hwyfan on November 11, 2022, 06:12:03 PM
Tolling will begin at the renovated Liberty Bridge in Bay City, Michigan in early 2023. All electronic tolling (AET) will be utilized. The system will be interoperable with E-ZPass transponders. This will be the first toll facility in Michigan to accept E-ZPass for tolling.
See: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/tolling/
Which is stupid. Bay City is like 15 miles from where I live and there are four drawbridge crossings on the Saginaw River and two of them they want to make toll bridges, well one they are the Liberty Bridge but that can easily be bypassed.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 11, 2022, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 11, 2022, 08:18:45 PM
Will it be interoperable with whatever the Mackinac Bridge uses? If not, this is basically Indiana all over again... (at least the Mackinac Bridge still accepts cash)
No, they don't have any plans as of right now to accept EZ-Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. If you are talking about MacPass, then yes, they will be accepted on these two bridges in Bay City.
I recall the Bay City Bridge Partners (BCBP) had talked about the possibility of accepting MacPass at the Liberty and Independence bridges. However that reciprocity is not yet confirmed on their website at the present time.
The BCBP, via their parent company United Bridge Partners (UBP), would have to reach an agreement with the Mackinac Bridge Authority to set up such an arrangement and establish a interoperability hub. Otherwise there wouldn't be any way for a motorist with a MacPass bearing vehicle to be have its account charged for the Bay City toll amount.
I believe the BCBP will offer a 6c sticker transponder good for only their two toll facilities and serve as an affiliate member of the E-ZPass Interagency Group (IAG). This would mean that while the BCBP can accept and process E-ZPass tolls, they themselves would not issue a BCBP branded E-ZPass transponder. There are some other toll agencies with this kind of arrangement. Two other UBP managed facilities - the South Norfolk Jordan Bridge and the Cline Avenue Bridge, have affiliate relationships with the IAG.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2022, 11:28:03 PM
Quote from: hwyfan on November 11, 2022, 06:12:03 PM
Tolling will begin at the renovated Liberty Bridge in Bay City, Michigan in early 2023. All electronic tolling (AET) will be utilized. The system will be interoperable with E-ZPass transponders. This will be the first toll facility in Michigan to accept E-ZPass for tolling.
See: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/tolling/
Which is stupid. Bay City is like 15 miles from where I live and there are four drawbridge crossings on the Saginaw River and two of them they want to make toll bridges, well one they are the Liberty Bridge but that can easily be bypassed.
As terms of their agreement with Bay City, the BCBP has agreed to allow for residents of Bay City to have free passage across both spans for a set period of time. Vehicles owned by local residents must have a transponder issued by BCBP installed on their vehicle to do this, as the facilities will utilize all electronic tolling (AET).
No one is being forced to use either toll bridge in Bay City, there are alternative crossings.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2022, 11:28:03 PM
Quote from: hwyfan on November 11, 2022, 06:12:03 PM
Tolling will begin at the renovated Liberty Bridge in Bay City, Michigan in early 2023. All electronic tolling (AET) will be utilized. The system will be interoperable with E-ZPass transponders. This will be the first toll facility in Michigan to accept E-ZPass for tolling.
See: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/tolling/
Which is stupid. Bay City is like 15 miles from where I live and there are four drawbridge crossings on the Saginaw River and two of them they want to make toll bridges, well one they are the Liberty Bridge but that can easily be bypassed.
From what I remember, people in Bay City wanted to keep the bridge, but no one actually wanted to pay the taxes required to pay for repairs, so the solution was to have a private company repair it and in exchange they get to toll it.
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:14:54 PM
I would hope that the Mackinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like. That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets). They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).
The director of Nassau County Bridge Authority (NCBA) announced in July of this year, they were in talks with MTA and NYSTA about the possibility of bringing E-ZPass to the Atlantic Beach Bridge. Members of the local citizens advisory committee on the bridge requested it and also the authority had difficulty with a license plate tolling system that they implemented during the pandemic.
See article:
https://www.liherald.com/stories/nassau-county-bridge-authority-disbands-citizens-committee,142738
I'm surprised that there are people that know anything about Bay City's local bridges in here. They were sold to a private company because the city couldn't afford to maintain them pretty much. They even wanted MDOT to take control to which MDOT refused, neither bridge is a state highway but the Veterans and Lafayette bridges are state highways to which MDOT would be involved there.
Quote from: hwyfan on November 12, 2022, 12:04:01 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 11, 2022, 11:28:03 PM
Quote from: hwyfan on November 11, 2022, 06:12:03 PM
Tolling will begin at the renovated Liberty Bridge in Bay City, Michigan in early 2023. All electronic tolling (AET) will be utilized. The system will be interoperable with E-ZPass transponders. This will be the first toll facility in Michigan to accept E-ZPass for tolling.
See: https://baycitybridgepartners.com/tolling/
Which is stupid. Bay City is like 15 miles from where I live and there are four drawbridge crossings on the Saginaw River and two of them they want to make toll bridges, well one they are the Liberty Bridge but that can easily be bypassed.
As terms of their agreement with Bay City, the BCBP has agreed to allow for residents of Bay City to have free passage across both spans for a set period of time. Vehicles owned by local residents must have a transponder issued by BCBP installed on their vehicle to do this, as the facilities will utilize all electronic tolling (AET).
No one is being forced to use either toll bridge in Bay City, there are alternative crossings.
Yes I know. I know Bay City pretty well.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 12, 2022, 04:25:52 PM
I'm surprised that there are people that know anything about Bay City's local bridges in here. They were sold to a private company because the city couldn't afford to maintain them pretty much. They even wanted MDOT to take control to which MDOT refused, neither bridge is a state highway but the Veterans and Lafayette bridges are state highways to which MDOT would be involved there.
The lease agreement between the city and United Bridge Partners came to my attention via articles posted on TollRoadsNews.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 11, 2022, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 11, 2022, 08:18:45 PM
Will it be interoperable with whatever the Mackinac Bridge uses? If not, this is basically Indiana all over again... (at least the Mackinac Bridge still accepts cash)
No, they don't have any plans as of right now to accept EZ-Pass on the Mackinac Bridge. If you are talking about MacPass, then yes, they will be accepted on these two bridges in Bay City.
I was thinking about MacPass on the Bay City bridges. Indiana had the absurd situation where the toll road was E-ZPass while the Wabash Bridge had its own transponder that was interoperable with nothing (at least the Mackinac Bridge still takes cash; the Wabash Bridge was AET; IIRC it didn't even have a bill by mail option).
There's also Québec, which has two toll facilities, each with their own transponder, neither of them interoperable with anything, not even each other (to make matters worse, both toll facilities are around Montréal, and one of them is AET).
Quote from: hwyfan on November 12, 2022, 01:53:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2021, 11:14:54 PM
I would hope that the Mackinac Bridge is not like the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which has refused E-ZPass mainly because they're a corrupt political patronage operation that doesn't want anyone to know what their financials look like. That, and the people on the island see the tolls as a way to keep out-of-towners out (among a bunch of other measures, like parking restrictions and implementing a maze of one-way streets). They're so obstinate against E-ZPass, they're even considering going AET with no transponder - bill by mail only (presumably their commuter decals would still somehow be accepted).
The director of Nassau County Bridge Authority (NCBA) announced in July of this year, they were in talks with MTA and NYSTA about the possibility of bringing E-ZPass to the Atlantic Beach Bridge. Members of the local citizens advisory committee on the bridge requested it and also the authority had difficulty with a license plate tolling system that they implemented during the pandemic.
See article:
https://www.liherald.com/stories/nassau-county-bridge-authority-disbands-citizens-committee,142738
I think it's safe to say that an article written in July of this year isn't something I would have seen in November of last year. ;) But at least now the people here who don't read the Northeast forum have seen it.
Quote from: vdeane on November 12, 2022, 06:05:39 PM
I was thinking about MacPass on the Bay City bridges. Indiana had the absurd situation where the toll road was E-ZPass while the Wabash Bridge had its own transponder that was interoperable with nothing (at least the Mackinac Bridge still takes cash; the Wabash Bridge was AET; IIRC it didn't even have a bill by mail option).
The Wabash Memorial Bridge switched to AET in 2011 to replace the manual attended toll booth that was there previously. Then just three years later after beginning AET, INDOT decided to end tolls altogether, citing low traffic volumes and cost of doing electronic tolling. That surprised me.
The distant location of the Wabash Memorial Bridge in relation to the East-West Toll Road made the decision to go with lower cost Sirit sticker as opposed to E-ZPass a more reasonable choice.