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Smallest Control City

Started by Henry, January 15, 2014, 02:46:00 PM

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Henry

I believe this has been answered before, but even if it's not, here's the question:

What is the smallest control city to appear on a BGS?
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agentsteel53

I think we found one smaller than Delaware Water Gap, but I forget what it is offhand.
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sammi

Breezewood doesn't count anymore right? MTR FAQ gives Breezewood, but I would think the population has then increased.

NE2

#3
If it counts as a control city (MUTCD says "Control city legends should be used...along a freeway...on the bottom line of post-interchange distance signs" and "The third, or bottom line, shall contain the name and distance to a control city (if any) that has national significance for travelers using the route."), Magic Kingdom, population 0.
pre-1945 Florida route log

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PHLBOS

By smallest, are we talking in terms of land area, population or name?

If it's by name; Bow, NH could be a contender:

Bow exit off I-89

Note: the previous BGS for this exit simply listed BOW on the exit legend.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

NE2

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 15, 2014, 02:56:45 PM
By smallest, are we talking in terms of land area, population or name?

If it's by name; Bow, NH could be a contender:

Bow exit off I-89

Note: the previous BGS for this exit simply listed BOW on the exit legend.

Of course we're not talking about name length; that would be silly. And that's not a control city, but a destination name.
Control cities defined: http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2e.htm#section2E13
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

bassoon1986

Surely we are talking "control city" in the sense of the 1 or 2 main cities listed on an Interstate pull-through sign? Because otherwise it would be impossible to find the smallest. Half of place names listed on exits are for places no longer there and with no reference to them off the highway...

hbelkins

Kentucky's parkways have some smaller towns listed as their control cities.

Salyersville (or Prestonsburg) for the Mountain Parkway and Fulton for the Purchase Parkway are the two that come most readily to mind. All the other cities and towns used on the parkways are reasonably-sized burgs for their areas. (Hazard, London, Somerset, Henderson, Owensboro, E-town, Hopkinsville, Bowling Green, Paducah, etc.).

The interstates all use decent-sized cities as their control cities.

West Virginia uses Lewisburg for I-64 east of Beckley, which has always puzzled me. It's not a big town by any means. The other cities/towns used in WV (Parkersburg, Clarksburg, Beckley, etc.) make more sense than does Lewisburg.

I-68 east of Cumberland uses Hancock, which is pretty small.


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Brandon

The smallest in population in Illinois would be Hennepin (pop. 707) as a primary control city for I-180.
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PHLBOS

#9
Plymouth Meeting, PA (pop. 6,177) along I-476

Assuming that we're not restricted to only listing those on pull-through BGS' (since many states have reduced the use of such over the last 2 decades) but including interchange ramps onto a highway.

Lima, PA (pop. 3,225) for US 1 at I-476 interchange 

Salisbury, MA (pop. 8,283) for I-95

Salisbury, MA again for I-495
GPS does NOT equal GOD

agentsteel53

Quote from: NE2 on January 15, 2014, 02:55:48 PM
If it counts as a control city (MUTCD says "Control city legends should be used...along a freeway...on the bottom line of post-interchange distance signs" and "The third, or bottom line, shall contain the name and distance to a control city (if any) that has national significance for travelers using the route."), Magic Kingdom, population 0.
[image]

is that a mileage sign in the post-interchange sense, or an upcoming exits sign?  plenty of upcoming exits signs in CA, some on the right shoulder, and none have the bottom as a distant destination.  (only example I can think of is the one in Albuquerque which wedges the distance to Denver - 454 miles IIRC - between two local exits!  but that's because New Mexico.)
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briantroutman

This is a difficult question to answer because of the differing definitions of city.

Breezewood, for example, isn't a city, town, borough, or municipality of any kind. There is no Breezewood town council or mayor. It has no definite borders, and therefore, has no definite population. "Breezewood" started as an informal name for small valley along the Lincoln Highway, and the name gradually became more established by appearing on PA Turnpike exit lists, hotel brochures, and eventually a US post office.

It appears that when people give a population figure for Breezewood, they're actually listing the census count for East Providence Township–which is the real municipality containing Breezewood–but the township extends miles beyond what anyone would consider to be the "town". The population of the "town" is probably a couple hundred at most.

PHLBOS

Quote from: briantroutman on January 15, 2014, 03:59:25 PM
This is a difficult question to answer because of the differing definitions of city.
PA is a primary offender in that regard.  The fore-mentioned Lima & Plymouth Meeting have zip codes but they're not actual towns, cities, townships nor boroughs per say.  Similar could be said regarding Paoli (US 202), King of Prussia (US 202), Valley Forge (I-76) & Exton (PA 100).
GPS does NOT equal GOD

agentsteel53

Delaware Water Gap is formally a borough, according to Wikipedia anyway.
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PHLBOS

Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 15, 2014, 04:10:13 PM
Delaware Water Gap is formally a borough, according to Wikipedia anyway.
With a listed population of 746 acording to the 2010 census.

At present, unless someone else knows otherwise, Hennepin, IL (pop. 707 from the 2000 census) is still the smallest listed control city by population.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

NE2

#15
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 15, 2014, 03:51:16 PM
is that a mileage sign in the post-interchange sense, or an upcoming exits sign?
Definitely the former, since there are two exits between Downtown Disney and Epcot, and the Magic Kingdom exit (which merges into World Drive, another freeway) is only 1/2 mile after the Epcot exit. Though 3/4 miles is for the Downtown Disney exit (it's 1.5 to the first parking lot entrance).
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

NE2

Quote from: briantroutman on January 15, 2014, 03:59:25 PM
This is a difficult question to answer because of the differing definitions of city.
"Control city" is a term of art that doesn't always refer to a city.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

english si

Obviously not USA, but Scotch Corner is a primary destination, and has a population of zero, being a road junction (the small nearby settlement is Middleton Tyas). It's signed from nearly 50 miles away when approaching from the west, and nearly 40 when approaching from the south - many 100k towns aren't as prominently signed.

The bridges and tunnels (Dartford Crossing, Humber Bridge, Tyne Tunnel, Forth Road Bridge, Kincardine Bridge, Tay Road Bridge) are similar no population nodes where you wouldn't want to end your journey. As are the various airports (Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Prestwick, Belfast City, Belfast International), but you would want to continue your journey at those places.

The most-epically signed zero-population (though you would continue your journey) primary destination is the Channel Tunnel (signed onward from the M23 and M11, though doesn't appear on the copies-of-old mileage signs until off the M25 - though still 50 miles away).

briantroutman

#18
Quote from: NE2 on January 15, 2014, 04:32:32 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 15, 2014, 03:59:25 PM
This is a difficult question to answer because of the differing definitions of city.
"Control city" is a term of art that doesn't always refer to a city.

Right, but if you're trying to say which is the smallest, you need some kind of boundaries to determine the population.

roadman

Lee, MA (pop 5,985) on I-90
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

The High Plains Traveler

Limon, CO. Population 1880. Control city for I-70 eastbound from Denver, as well as other routes that feed to I-70. It also has showed up in Kansas, but seems to be yielding to Denver.
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Mapmikey

The smallest size place as a control point I can think of on an interstate in Virginia used to be Bowers Hill but I don't think any signs are left on I-64 that have it anymore.

Mapmikey

Alps

I'll throw a wrinkle into this mess: What is the smallest control city BY AREA to appear on a BGS?

NE2

Quote from: Steve on January 15, 2014, 10:56:57 PM
I'll throw a wrinkle into this mess: What is the smallest control city BY AREA to appear on a BGS?
Magic Kingdom? :bigass:
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

empirestate

Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 15, 2014, 04:10:13 PM
Delaware Water Gap is formally a borough, according to Wikipedia anyway.

It is, of course, also a gap, which tends to muddy the question a bit. The vast majority of travelers along I-80 who reckon their travels according to "Delaware Water Gap" are doing so with respect to the gap itself–i.e., the geographic formation where I-80 crosses the Delaware (on a bridge [with a {rather obvious} tollbooth])–and not the borough.

So if we determine that this instance indeed refers to the gap and not the borough–and since we've also remembered that
Quote from: NE2 on January 15, 2014, 04:32:32 PM"Control city" is a term of art that doesn't always refer to a city
, then how shall we determine the smallness of Delaware Water Gap? Or should we consider amending the topic heading to "Smallest City that is a Control City"?



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